The truth, and the end.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Well I agree with most of this, but I disagree that they should be following the path made by other bands in how they adapt to the new way of music production.

I'm sorry but the path other artists are following is giving them millions of views and streams.

The digital platforms are the new radio and selling millions of albums is something from the past.

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Right now more people than at any point in the last 15yrs want a gnr record. How many bands can say that?

Bands I don't know . Rock is basically dead. But I can speak about other genres that have millions of fans and there are tons of new and not so new artists out there releasing VERY SUCCESFUL music.

Outside this forum, I am completely sure there aren't millions of people waiting for a Guns N' Roses album because this band is completely irrelevant in today's music.

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Quality over quantity, so yeah some bands release a song a month but I almost guarantee tee the quality is all over the place.

Bullshit. CD took more than a decade to be released and it is pretty mediocre. Just because the artists are using this method of promotion it doesn't mean the music was made in a week.

I know the case of many new artists who have worked for a year or two in their albums but instead of releasing it all at once, they drop a song a month, maybe 3 songs and then the whole album.

[Raiken]

2 hours ago, WhazUp said:

Like Lio said, these videos were not being monetized on the fan's side of things. 

 

Have you ever watched a youtube video of a song that was uploaded by someone other than the band? Or fan cell phone footage of a show by a band you dig?  All in all for GNR to treat those things like the enemy is stupid, no other way around it

So anybody that doesn't think like you do or share your viewpoint is stupid? 

This whol topic is ridiculous and is only a bunch of people complaining and calling GNR names because they can't get things their way. 

Only a couple of people with sane posts that reflect reality. Sad. 

[Azifwekare]

12 hours ago, kiwiguns said:

I also feel people on this forum find it easy to blame and attack the band and their management knowing they won't react or engage in a response. To be honest they don't need to. Its easier to blame or attack someone who is not going to defend themselves. 

Wrong. All of this is because everyone wants at least some kind of official response, to literally anything at this point.

[Azifwekare]

11 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

 These guys have lives outside of GNR and music, if THEY don't want to make new music so be it! really it makes no difference to me! Am I going to stop listening to music I enjoy because of any of this, or because youtube clips get taken down? hell no! Yeah it's a shame, but come on most of us here are adults... I think we can live with or without another GNR album or tour. I want to hear new material, I want to watch old clips of the band, but it's not currently on the table, so I'm currently listening to a lot of other music.

But they have already made new music... multuple albums worth. But for whatever reason they won't release any of it and take our money for it, hence why there's such a strong demand for bootlegs and leaks, and thanks to a couple of ass munchers we can't even have that anymore.

[RussTCB]

36 minutes ago, Raiken said:

So anybody that doesn't think like you do or share your viewpoint is stupid? 

This whol topic is ridiculous and is only a bunch of people complaining and calling GNR names because they can't get things their way. 

Only a couple of people with sane posts that reflect reality. Sad. 

That's not at all what's happening. People are reacting to a situation caused by GN'R and Team Brazil that resulted in fans having their families threatened. 

I'm curious since you brought up the law last time; how do you think the law effects a band and it's management encouraging people to act on their behalf who end up threatening the families of others?

[Pele]

10 hours ago, Raiken said:

 

 

99 percent of the people at shows are not part of the GNR online community.  

You overestimate the influence of your Yourube channels. 

The NITL tour was a huge success critically and financially. All the shows started pretty much on time.  No shows were cancelled. 

Del is a loyal friend and great manager. 

Just because he doesn’t shoot his mouth off like Niven or Goldstein does not make him a bad person  or ass kisser  

None of us know Axl well enough to know what is good for him. He is private   

People here need to realize that copyright infringement comes under white collar crime  

if the copyright holder wants to enforce the law it is their legal right to do so . 

Definition of white collar crime from

wilipedia 

 

White-collar crime (or corporate crime, more correctly) refers to financially motivated, nonviolent crime committed by business and government professionals.[1] Within criminology, it was first defined by sociologist Edwin Sutherland in 1939 as "a crime committed by a person of respectability and high social status in the course of their occupation".[2] Typical white-collar crimes could include fraud, bribery, Ponzi schemes, insider trading, labor racketeering, embezzlement, cybercrime, copyright infringement, money laundering, identity theft, and forgery.[3] Lawyers can be specialized in white-collar crime.[4]

You cannot help yourself can you?  

4 hours ago, sl4yer said:

Beta pls stop.

It's not Beta.....

[Gunner927]

2 hours ago, Raiken said:

So anybody that doesn't think like you do or share your viewpoint is stupid? 

This whol topic is ridiculous and is only a bunch of people complaining and calling GNR names because they can't get things their way. 

Only a couple of people with sane posts that reflect reality. Sad. 

Hi, Youth of Conflict! Make sure to go give Alfred a big kiss on the ass for us all when you find your way back to your hovel!

[Raiken]

1 hour ago, RussTCB said:

That's not at all what's happening. People are reacting to a situation caused by GN'R and Team Brazil that resulted in fans having their families threatened. 

I'm curious since you brought up the law last time; how do you think the law effects a band and it's management encouraging people to act on their behalf who end up threatening the families of others?

No clue, I didn’t see any threats here only whining and complaining. 

This is however is law and not being taken into consideration. 

Federal law, namely 17 U.S.C. § 1101 imposes civil penalties for the unauthorized recording of live performances or the transmission or distribution of such. This is true even if the bootlegging is not done for commercial gain. The statute provides that anyone who engages in these prohibited acts is potentially liable for money damages. A court may also impound applicable recordings.

Similarly, 18 U.S.C. Section 2319(a), which makes bootlegging a criminal offense if the perpetrator -- without the consent of the applicable artist -- knowingly records a live musical performance or distributes such a recording, and does so for commercial gain.

[RussTCB]

7 minutes ago, Raiken said:

No clue, I didn’t see any threats here only whining and complaining. 

Oh, OK. I wasn't aware that you had no idea what you were talking about when you started posting about the topic. 

It's probably best for you to educate yourself on the subject before making an attempt to sound knowledgeable. 

[Raiken]

13 hours ago, Draguns said:

Wow! Some people just love drama. Awesome! You stopped being a fan because you got your content pulled down. Now do you have to come on to a fan forum to seek attention and tell people you stopped being a fan as a result?  Kudos to you for not being a fan anymore.

Have you ever given the thought that  maybe GNR, management,  or whoever has that right considering that it is intellectual property? You don't have to like it, but you have to respect and see it from their side as well. Besides there is still content online regarding old videos. 

Just enjoy the music and live life. Life is too short for stuff like this. 

 

This. 

A lot of drama and emotional outbursts here that take no actual facts into consideration and won’t change a thing. 

[FRANSAD]

SIGH!!!!!!!!

For the people who still think it's all about legal rights and money or future sold concerts.
See this post again where i clearly show that Universal only blocked and not striked my video's just because they love to monetize those vids


UMG removed a lot of those demo's included in the box right before the box was announced, so they went manually through my channel blocking all content that was about to be released but UMG never striked me as you can see on this screenshot.

Please also note the Claimed by: UMG part
 

In this next screenshot u can see UMG claiming a video but this time they choose to let is stay on my channel but they will monetize it, which is fine by me because i even didnt have the monetizing option turned on and nearly all my video's where monetized by UMG anyways

Please also note the Claimed by: UMG part

Then suddenly the IFPI comes and claims the same video and gives me a strike for it, which i find very strange because the IFPI works for companies as UMG making sure any YT money goes to the right copyright owner which in this case is UMG.

So here comes the IFPI overruling a decision made by the real content holder UMG and by doing this they make the company they work for LOOSE money.

Please note the Takedown issued by IFPI part

  

So when that happened it raised some questions and I contacted the IFPI about it and at first, they didn't react at all but after multiple emails asking them how they could overrule a decision made by the one and only copyright holder they gave me some automated bullshit reply, not even responding to my original question. Of course i replied with screenshots proving the overruling story but they never responded again. 

So the whole point in this is I understand UMG doesn't want stuff to be sold on Youtube and even if they don't plan on selling it but still want it gone from the tube I'm fine with that I don't owe any single copyright from Guns N' Roses material.

But be clear about because if i knew, in the end, they want it all gone i wouldn't have invested the time and effort in my channel. And still up until this day no word from Fernando about the evidence that was provided!!!!

[RussTCB]

2 minutes ago, Raiken said:

This. 

A lot of drama and emotional outbursts here that take no actual facts into consideration and won’t change a thing. 

Plenty of actual facts have been posted, you just continue to choose not to see that. 

Fact: people claiming to act on behalf of GNR and Team Brazil threatened families over concert videos being posted on YouTube. 

[Raiken]

2 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Oh, OK. I wasn't aware that you had no idea what you were talking about when you started posting about the topic. 

It's probably best for you to educate yourself on the subject before making an attempt to sound knowledgeable. 

Straw man argument that does nothing to dispute the laws I stated. 

Maybe it is you that needs to educate themselves on actual federal statutes and focus less on emotional whining about nonnegotiable policies. 

Just because something was once done a certain way doesn’t signify that it can’t be changed at any point as long as legal statutes support the change. 

 

1 minute ago, RussTCB said:

Plenty of actual facts have been posted, you just continue to choose not to see that. 

Fact: people claiming to act on behalf of GNR and Team Brazil threatened families over concert videos being posted on YouTube. 

That is heresay and drama as far as I can see, not fact. 

The federal statutes I cited are law. 

[RussTCB]

6 minutes ago, Raiken said:

Straw man argument that does nothing to dispute the laws I stated. 

Maybe it is you that needs to educate themselves on actual federal statutes and focus less on emotional whining about nonnegotiable policies. 

Just because something was once done a certain way doesn’t signify that it can’t be changed at any point as long as legal statutes support the change. 

That is heresay and drama as far as I can see, not fact. 

The federal statutes I cited are law. 

Lol, "straw man argument" is a nice giveaway for my suspicion that this is just another one of your alt accounts.

Oh and there's no "hearsay", there's actual proof via text message of what was claimed to be done on behalf of GNR and Team Brazil. 

Either way, I'm done wasting my time. Hope you had fun with this latest account for a few minutes, because you're done, yet again. 

[Gunner927]

Of course you would only see it as hearsay when you're the one behind the threats...

[fernomenoyde]

12 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

Lol, "straw man argument" is a nice giveaway for my suspicion that this is just another one of your alt accounts.

Oh and there's no "hearsay", there's actual proof via text message of what was claimed to be done on behalf of GNR and Team Brazil. 

Either way, I'm done wasting my time. Hope you had fun with this latest account for a few minutes, because you're done, yet again. 

Have no more likes Russ but you're the man!

@Raiken I have to say, as a journalist... Police have something like kind of copyright on several countries. So, that means you can't always record what they do freely like, when they're beating the shit out some individual. Well, there's another law in most of the countries that allows everyone to record what happens and those recordings are intellectualy belonging to the taper. That's WHY WE HAVE NEWS, AND JOURNALISTS.

I am not a criminal because i attend to a show and record what i find interesting. And that recording belongs to me. So, if people record videos from a gig and then send them to me to make a multicam, they're in all right to do that. Also, i'm in all right to do that.

To say even more: the soundboards i happend to use were FREE BROADCASTED BY GUNS N' ROSES, so i really can't see the issue. Other than bitching and trolling about someting you don't know. I am not a criminal, UMG was much aware of that and i remember the record company monetizing almost every video from my channel. So... shut the fuck up.

Edited February 2, 2019 by fernomenoyde

[Pele]

A very brief summary of what went down for anyone unclear (without any name-calling or mentioning anyone by name - except Beta/Axl)

• A fan from the GNROnline (active from 1998) days struck up a 'penpal' type relationship with Beta (before Team Brasil) was an actual entity.
• This individual was/is a loyal Axl Rose fan and defended Axl against any criticism online.
• Beta appreciated the loyalty and support and an informal arrangement was made where this guy and a few other select people would 'police' the message-boards, stopping the spread of mis-information 
• The character profile was created (and shared between a very small group of users) and registered on all major forums, and this individual started removing vids from YouTube citing copyright
• The character profile became quite confrontational.  Also, entered into a lot of personal bickering with members 
• The profile never claimed to be Axl Rose, but (subjectively) typed in Axl lingo.  Any personal info released matched up with Rose (living in Malibu, being nocturnal, being born in 62 etc, etc - could all be coincidental)
• The drama got too much and the profile was banned
• A female member from Florida was wrongly accused of being behind the character and several alts (and still mentioned to this day)
• The individual leading the profile returned on MSL's forum, then later went on to moderate the forum (now not associated with MSL)
• This person took exception to comments in a recent podcast, and decided to enlist the help of another member of the forum he moderates and took down as many unauthorized videos as possible
• This person has toned down his on-line behavior somewhat, but still claims to be living in California which is untrue

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Pele

[fernomenoyde]

3 minutes ago, Pele said:

A very brief summary of what went down for anyone unclear (without any name-calling or mentioning anyone by name - except Beta/Axl)

• A fan from the GNROnline days struck up a 'penpal' type relationship with Beta (before Team Brasil) was an actual entity.
• This individual was/is a loyal Axl Rose fan and defended Axl against any criticism online.
• Beta appreciated the loyalty and support and an informal arrangement was made where this guy and a few other select people would 'police' the message-boards, stopping the spread of mis-information 
• The character profile was created (and shared between a very small group of users) and registered on all major forums, and this individual started removing vids from YouTube citing copyright
• The character profile became quite confrontational.  Also, entered into a lot of personal bickering with members 
• The profile never claimed to be Axl Rose, but (objectively) typed in Axl lingo.  Any personal info released matched up with Rose (living in Malibu, being nocturnal, being born in 62 etc, etc - could all be coincidental)
• The drama got too much and the profile was banned
• The individual leading the profile returned on MSL's forum, then later went on to moderate the forum (now not associated with MSL)
• This person took exception to comments in a recent podcast, and decided to enlist the help of another member of the forum he moderates and took down as many unauthorized videos as possible
• This person has toned down his on-line behavior somewhat, but still claims to be living in California which is untrue

 

I really didn't know some of the facts. Thanks.

 

28 minutes ago, FRANSAD said:

SIGH!!!!!!!!

For the people who still think it's all about legal rights and money or future sold concerts.
See this post again where i clearly show that Universal only blocked and not striked my video's just because they love to monetize those vids


UMG removed a lot of those demo's included in the box right before the box was announced, so they went manually through my channel blocking all content that was about to be released but UMG never striked me as you can see on this screenshot.

Please also note the Claimed by: UMG part
 

In this next screenshot u can see UMG claiming a video but this time they choose to let is stay on my channel but they will monetize it, which is fine by me because i even didnt have the monetizing option turned on and nearly all my video's where monetized by UMG anyways

Please also note the Claimed by: UMG part

Then suddenly the IFPI comes and claims the same video and gives me a strike for it, which i find very strange because the IFPI works for companies as UMG making sure any YT money goes to the right copyright owner which in this case is UMG.

So here comes the IFPI overruling a decision made by the real content holder UMG and by doing this they make the company they work for LOOSE money.

Please note the Takedown issued by IFPI part

  

So when that happened it raised some questions and I contacted the IFPI about it and at first, they didn't react at all but after multiple emails asking them how they could overrule a decision made by the one and only copyright holder they gave me some automated bullshit reply, not even responding to my original question. Of course i replied with screenshots proving the overruling story but they never responded again. 

So the whole point in this is I understand UMG doesn't want stuff to be sold on Youtube and even if they don't plan on selling it but still want it gone from the tube I'm fine with that I don't owe any single copyright from Guns N' Roses material.

But be clear about because if i knew, in the end, they want it all gone i wouldn't have invested the time and effort in my channel. And still up until this day no word from Fernando about the evidence that was provided!!!!

Fran, that's exactly what happened. Excelent post my friend, excelent.

 

1 hour ago, Oldest Goat said:

There would be no Oldest Goat without fans like @fernomenoyde I was born in '91 and basically dismissed GNR when I was a kid. What got me into them prior to the threeunion was watching the bootleg YouTube videos, so thank you for all your efforts mate. It means a lot.

I'm a fool and have convinced myself we're getting new material, this year no less. We shall see.

What makes me stick around is the genuine and sweet people on here who happen to be as passionate about the songs as I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's just a band but the songs are brilliant and the vast majority of the fans at least on here are good eggs. So when I see losers attacking and mocking them for having the audacity to care I always think "Jeez, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about you stupid cunts." 

Thank you so much Oldest Goat. I was born in 1978, so Guns N' Roses was my favorite band since i was a teenager and i fully understand what you feel if i think about Rolling Stones. But The Rolling Stones gave me the chance to see them live twice, but most importantly, they keep pulling out songs and records so i had the chance to enjoy them. Something is not happening with new GN'R fans, aside from live-nostalgia-shows. I'm really sorry i can't share my videos anymore, i was even starting to make some multicams about the solo careers but that's all sleeping on a hard drive. Sad, but true.

[imsorry]

You guys that had no clue what this thread is all about should stop post here with your non sense crap.

Edited February 2, 2019 by imsorry

[fernomenoyde]

1 minute ago, imsorry said:

You guys that had no clue what this thread is all about should stop post here with your non sense crap.

Absolutely. They need to know what they're talking about.

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Sounds like a pathetic, parasitic loser who has no character/personality/life of their own so they try to bask in Axl's shadow and harass normal folks to feel semi-important. A bully, who I am sure wouldn't have the balls to threaten peoples families in real life.

Yeah, but the threats are real. 100% real. That's insane, absolutely insane.

[sl4yer]

1 hour ago, Pele said:

You cannot help yourself can you?  

It's not Beta.....

It is

[RussTCB]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Were they threats of violence? Because that's a little more serious than some bootleg YouTube videos, you'd expect these law experts to know that huh?

And if it's proven that they actually do represent GNR...#Lawsuit

Absolutely. Check the thread I linked on the first page. 

[fernomenoyde]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Were they threats of violence? Because that's a little more serious than some bootleg YouTube videos, you'd expect these law experts to know that huh?

And if it's proven that they actually do represent GNR...#Lawsuit

Yes, violence was part of all this psychedelic story.

[Pele]

38 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Sounds like a pathetic, parasitic loser who has no character/personality/life of their own so they try to bask in Axl's shadow and harass normal folks to feel semi-important. A bully, who I am sure wouldn't have the balls to threaten peoples families in real life.

Most will agree with you on that.

This guy isn't going to get a lot of love on this forum for obvious reason, but the whole thing is a bit of a shame.

For all his faults, he's been a massive fan since just after the bands inception.  He has been 100% loyal in his support.  He has access to selected information that a lot of fans don't have.  He has a decent knowledge of how the music industry works.  He would actually be a welcome addition to a forum like this, however there is something in his psyche that makes him behave completely unreasonably if met with any criticism.  This becomes very personal very quickly and a lot of fans in the past have been the victim of this.    

In terms of threats of violence - I think the incident you refer to was made by an associate of his, and was (at a stretch) subjective, and not a direct threat (although I believe it was designed to be interpreted as one)

Edited February 2, 2019 by Pele

[fernomenoyde]

1 minute ago, Pele said:

Most will agree with you on that.

This guy isn't going to get a lot of love on this forum for obvious reason, but the whole thing is a bit of a shame.

For all his faults, he's been a massive fan since just after the bands inception.  He has been 100% loyal in his support.  He has access to selected information that a lot of fans don't have.  He has a decent knowledge of how the music industry works.  He would actually be a welcome addition to a forum like this, however there is something in his psyche that makes his behave completely unreasonably if met with any criticism.  This becomes very personal very quickly and a lot of fans in the past have been the victim of this.    

There's a line between normal fans and absolutely wako fanatics, like if they were part of a cult or something like that. Here, we are fans (i was a fan) and fans can also say what they think is wrong. But i understand your point.