I think we can all agree that Chinese Democracy is one of the most underappreciated albums of the past 20 years

[maxpax]

33 minutes ago, username said:

It's still a bloated overproduced piece of bile that had potential. And it should've come out 6 to 8 years sooner. End of story. 

There are still so many questions of that era left. F.ex. I still don't get why Axl decided to perform at the Vma's without an finished album in his pocket...Axl seems sane in his live interviews, but when you look at the nugnr stuff...the whole thing is so insane...14 mio $ used, a dozen of musicians used, a doubtful promo...there are still at least 20 unreleased tracks left...and probably another 50 without unfinished lyrics...

Axl made probably the biggest marketing fail in rock history.

 

[maxpax]

4 minutes ago, F*ck Fear said:

People have differring opinions and thats ok.

My opinion is there are songs on that record that are better than songs from Lies and UYI1&2.

Chinese is a great record that people wanted to hate because Slash, Duff and Izzy were not on it.

No. AFD + UYI = perfect Overproduction. CD=Overproduced.

[default_]

I love half of the record, theres some songs that are pure Illusions in there. I HATE the tittle track and stuff like Shacklers tho, I'm glad they never put silkworms or any other of those heavy/super industrial tracks on it. 

The record is extremely overpruduced but it doesnt bother me as much as Metallica's Hardwire... To Self Destruct, for exemple, it doesnt sound THAT bad for me.

Edited August 30, 2016 by default_

[Słash]

"I think we can all agree that Chinese Democracy is one of the most underappreciated albums of the past 20 years"

[Twinaleblood]

Kids dancing in the hallways agree

 

[Słash]

19 minutes ago, Twinaleblood said:

Kids dancing in the hallways agree

 

LOL, she seemed like Chris Pitman's daughter. 

[SEPTEM]

My money is on the "most underapreciated álbum of the last 25 years at least"

Like many many people said, its an álbum way ahead of his time.

 

However. We all know that if cd would have been promoted correctly  ( real promo vídeos on tv, a more promoted and elaborated tour,  a couple of songs in a decent comercial movies, several interviews, that "récord company-radio agreement" about what music to promote and run constantly those cd singles the way they do with crapy stuff like biever, perry, beyonce, adele, mars, etc etc,  this story could be a lot diferent.  

 

But hey, carefull,   the album was 3 on billboard, 1 on other several countrys, literally everybody knows "that name",  and has sold like 6 million copys worldwide ( during the "ilegal music download times")

 

So...  WATCH YOUR WORDS

 

 

 

[Słash]

Some of you are acting like Chinese Democracy is the only Album released in the past 20 years.

There have been shit loads of albums released in the past 20 years and many of them are underrated. 

Axl tried to milk the Guns N' Roses name and still FAILED. 

[sturginho]

27 minutes ago, SEPTEM said:

My money is on the "most underapreciated álbum of the last 25 years at least"

Like many many people said, its an álbum way ahead of his time.

 

However. We all know that if cd would have been promoted correctly  ( real promo vídeos on tv, a more promoted and elaborated tour,  a couple of songs in a decent comercial movies, several interviews, that "récord company-radio agreement" about what music to promote and run constantly those cd singles the way they do with crapy stuff like biever, perry, beyonce, adele, mars, etc etc,  this story could be a lot diferent.  

 

But hey, carefull,   the album was 3 on billboard, 1 on other several countrys, literally everybody knows "that name",  and has sold like 6 million copys worldwide ( during the "ilegal music download times")

 

So...  WATCH YOUR WORDS

 

 

 

 

why are you putting diacritics in the wrong place?

[username]

3 hours ago, F*ck Fear said:

People have differring opinions and thats ok.

My opinion is there are songs on that record that are better than songs from Lies and UYI1&2.

Chinese is a great record that people wanted to hate because Slash, Duff and Izzy were not on it.

It's not that difficult to be better than My World. So that's hardly an accomplishment. And I'm fine with who is and isn't on it. I hate it because it's a poor album. It's so incredibly bloated trying to turn every song into some epically layered whateverpiece. The whole album is trying WAY too hard. Completely lost itself. I hate it even more because most songs are essentially pretty good, but it got completely cocked up in arrangement and production. The 2000'ish live versions of CD, Madagascar, The Blues and Rhiad combined with the Brian May version of Catcher and the leaked demo's from that period of IRS and TWAT make a better album than anything that actually ended up on it. 

3 hours ago, maxpax said:

There are still so many questions of that era left. F.ex. I still don't get why Axl decided to perform at the Vma's without an finished album in his pocket...Axl seems sane in his live interviews, but when you look at the nugnr stuff...the whole thing is so insane...14 mio $ used, a dozen of musicians used, a doubtful promo...there are still at least 20 unreleased tracks left...and probably another 50 without unfinished lyrics...

Axl made probably the biggest marketing fail in rock history.

 

 

Some of the gaps can be filled in thought. Let's assume they started around 1998 and got a lot done. OMG actually came out on End Of Days. But I remember reports that somewhere around 2000/2001/2002'ish the intial album was practically done, but it got rejected by the label. Then the whole thing imploded in 2004'ish when Buckethead quit and they had to cancel the planned RIR date. Then there was getting it back on track. Which materialized 2 years later in 2006. Granted, to start a tour supporting an album that eventually comes out roughly 2 years later is just plain stupid. But I'm sure there were loads of delays there too. Merck was fired. Azoff was hired. I think that's when most of the overproducing happened. Most arrangements from 1998-2002 were much more raw, based on the leaks from that time and the love shows. They had all the arrangements with Beltrami and the stuff with Brian May and all the stuff with Roy Thomas Baker.. Post-2004 not much else happened than re-recording the re-recorded re-recordings and overdubbing all of it. 

1 hour ago, Slash787 said:

Some of you are acting like Chinese Democracy is the only Album released in the past 20 years.

There have been shit loads of albums released in the past 20 years and many of them are underrated. 

Axl tried to milk the Guns N' Roses name and still FAILED. 

Well, it is the only GnR album in the past 20 years. And yes, they pretty much toured the album in 2001, 2002, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. That's 10 out of those 20 years. In which they performed roughly 330 shows. If Wikipedia is even slightly correct. Not to mention the cancelled dates in 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004. And isn't that just a little bit sad. 

Edited August 30, 2016 by username

[Reclamation Project]

4 hours ago, Slash787 said:

"I think we can all agree that Chinese Democracy is one of the most underappreciated albums of the past 20 years"

[maynard]

I think we can all agree Axl fans will keep repeating the same bullshit til the end of time.

Ahead of its time? You mena a little late to the party right? The nu metal riffs and hip hop beats were already very old by 2008. Nah, not ahead of its time.

The layering vocals and synths? Not new. There isn't a single innovative use of layering in the whole record. It's just used to bloat the songs up. You gotta agree with me that the Scraped intro is the most pointless use of a capela vocals in music's history right? I mean, it barely has a melody, it's just random yelling.

The guitar solos? The best part of the record except for Ron BF Thal parts, which are mindless shredding. BH and Robin did a great work, which was probably even better before Axl cutting, copying and pasting it. It's fair, it's his solo record after all. But it's a shame he couldn't trust in their abilities a little more.

---

People didn't give it a chance. People wanted to hate it before it was even released. -- All bullshit. Complete bullshit. You gotta be kidding me bullshit.

People were anxiously waiting to see what Axl would come up with after so many years.

Lunatic Slash fanboys might be the only portion of people who would probably hate it before listening to it.

Now that Axl's solo carreer is over and GNR is back since its last show in 1993, I thought the CD crap would be put to rest. During his solo carreer Axl released one album, some people loved it, most people thought it was underwhelming/bad/average/not good/whatever. Stop trying to justify its lack of success and bad reception. Enjoy it if you like. I have around 200 better rock albums to reccomend if you want to expand your musical taste.

[BreakDown2014]

 

[maxpax]

2 hours ago, Reclamation Project said:

Oh, brain mantia is doing porn now.

[NicDwolfwood]

Not at all. Its rated just fine. 

 

I hate the argument that the only reason people hate it is because It didnt have Slash on it. I call Bullshit on that. If the record was good, It wouldnt matter who the fuck is on it. But its not good. Its ok. Really only about half of the album is decent. It suffered greatly from gestating for 15 years. Had it been released in 2000, it might have sounded fresh. but by 2008 it sat far too long. taking that much time to make a record is never a good thing. The longer it sits, the more shit is rehashed until its barely recognizable from how it began. Its like guitar players when they do solos. most will tell you the first couple takes are the best. anything more than that rarely leads to a better solo.

[F*ck Fear]

7 hours ago, username said:

It's not that difficult to be better than My World. So that's hardly an accomplishment. 

So Fine, Shotgun Blues, You Ain't The First, Get In The Ring and My World.

[ludurigan]

17 hours ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

This was something I was thinking about tonight

is there anything to be appreciated other than axl voice and melodies?

 

Axl melodies are nice -- its too bad that he chose to sing them in a really annoying clean voice that goes against everything he had done to that point, like if Michael Jordan decided to play basketball with his feet

 

oh and there is of course the a zillion layers of instruments played by some musicians that seem unable to write a good song to save their lives

 

so much to appreciate!

 

[username]

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

is there anything to be appreciated other than axl voice and melodies?

 

Axl melodies are nice -- its too bad that he chose to sing them in a really annoying clean voice that goes against everything he had done to that point, like if Michael Jordan decided to play basketball with his feet

 

oh and there is of course the a zillion layers of instruments played by some musicians that seem unable to write a good song to save their lives

 

so much to appreciate!

 

My opinion is more important that everybody else's, so it should be in a huge font! 

[Caught_in_a_Coma]

11 hours ago, maynard said:

I think we can all agree Axl fans will keep repeating the same bullshit til the end of time.

Ahead of its time? You mena a little late to the party right? The nu metal riffs and hip hop beats were already very old by 2008. Nah, not ahead of its time.

The layering vocals and synths? Not new. There isn't a single innovative use of layering in the whole record. It's just used to bloat the songs up. You gotta agree with me that the Scraped intro is the most pointless use of a capela vocals in music's history right? I mean, it barely has a melody, it's just random yelling.

The guitar solos? The best part of the record except for Ron BF Thal parts, which are mindless shredding. BH and Robin did a great work, which was probably even better before Axl cutting, copying and pasting it. It's fair, it's his solo record after all. But it's a shame he couldn't trust in their abilities a little more.

---

People didn't give it a chance. People wanted to hate it before it was even released. -- All bullshit. Complete bullshit. You gotta be kidding me bullshit.

People were anxiously waiting to see what Axl would come up with after so many years.

Lunatic Slash fanboys might be the only portion of people who would probably hate it before listening to it.

Now that Axl's solo carreer is over and GNR is back since its last show in 1993, I thought the CD crap would be put to rest. During his solo carreer Axl released one album, some people loved it, most people thought it was underwhelming/bad/average/not good/whatever. Stop trying to justify its lack of success and bad reception. Enjoy it if you like. I have around 200 better rock albums to reccomend if you want to expand your musical taste.

Do you think Axl has a great album in him if he has different people around?

[maynard]

2 minutes ago, Caught_in_a_Coma said:

Do you think Axl has a great album in him if he has different people around?

I think so. There are some good ideas buried in all the pretentiousness and mess that's CD. Like the raw Rio 3 version of Madagascar, that was a fucking amazing performance IMO.

I think Slash and Duff could help him out to release songs in a more prolific way, and relieve some of the pressure and insecurity Axl has in regards to making music. Izzy could probably bring the best out of him too. One thing is for sure - no employees, no yes-men. Axl is not a good boss.

I don't see Axl releasing music ever again though. He's fine with milking the legacy, sadly. He's a talented piano player and singer.

[Towelie]

I like Chinese Democracy just fine, but there is no way it is underappreciated. It has been poured over, analysed and discussed to death. There are many other great albums that fly under the radar that don't get half the attention CD got just from being the first and only "GNR" album in 25 years.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Towelie

[action]

underappreciated: correct. it is underappreciated, and rightly so

underestimated: no. for that, the record would have to have some kind of musical value, which it hasn't.

it is the testament of a man, out of ideas / music. who doesn't have any real friends anymore (other than yes people), and who is only left with making a mockery of his past tyrannic behavior. "You can only write about what you know", and Axl knows a lot about democracy, or better the lack of it.

it's the only thing he was left with at that time: being like a king without land. so he came up with the concept of "Chinese democracy". which was pretty lame in and of itself, since china is hardly the most dictatorial country in the world. better would have been to call it "north Korean democracy". now that would actually mean something. But that doesn't sound rock n roll does it? the problems with the album started there and then, and any credibility and relevance was lost before even the first song was recorded.

who wants to hear the self pitying rantings of a dicator who lost everything? I thought I would. but after countless hours of listening to it, I can safely say it's an irrelevant, uninteresting, convoluted piece of trash.

Edited August 31, 2016 by action

[maynard]

2 hours ago, action said:

underappreciated: correct. it is underappreciated, and rightly so

underestimated: no. for that, the record would have to have some kind of musical value, which it hasn't.

it is the testament of a man, out of ideas / music. who doesn't have any real friends anymore (other than yes people), and who is only left with making a mockery of his past tyrannic behavior. "You can only write about what you know", and Axl knows a lot about democracy, or better the lack of it.

it's the only thing he was left with at that time: being like a king without land. so he came up with the concept of "Chinese democracy". which was pretty lame in and of itself, since china is hardly the most dictatorial country in the world. better would have been to call it "north Korean democracy". now that would actually mean something. But that doesn't sound rock n roll does it? the problems with the album started there and then, and any credibility and relevance was lost before even the first song was recorded.

who wants to hear the self pitying rantings of a dicator who lost everything? I thought I would. but after countless hours of listening to it, I can safely say it's an irrelevant, uninteresting, convoluted piece of trash.

what a fucking great post. kudos man.

[ludurigan]

16 hours ago, action said:

it is the testament of a man, out of ideas / music. who doesn't have any real friends anymore (other than yes people)

 

for all we know, yes, axl seems to have surrounded himself with yes-people for too long

for all we can see (and hear) on the chinese democracy album and on the solo-era tours, its also obvious that axl has recruited musicians that could play GNR note by note but that (apparently) cant write a good 3-chord song to save their lives

i cant really comment on the lyrics subjects on chines democracy cause the whole thing is so unpleasant to listen to that I never took the time to try and check out what axl is singing about

but you know whats funny?

i am kinda convinced that had axl wrote and recorded these very same songs (ideas) with Izzy, Slash, Duff and a drummer, its very likely that they would be just fucking great terrific songs -- as great as, say, Estranged

 

[Słash]

On August 30, 2016 at 3:25 AM, F*ck Fear said:

So Fine, Shotgun Blues, You Ain't The First, Get In The Ring and My World.

So Fine and Shotgun Blues are 100 times better than Scraped and Riad.