Chinese Democracy (2008) vs Rough Mixes CD #1 (2000)

[StrangerInThisTown]

They should definitely adapt the arrangement of some of these versions of the songs for live playing. The bass only verses in CD are extremely badass. And if they decide to play Riad then the rough mix version is the way to go. I didn't even like the song before hearing that version.

[OfftheBeatenTrack]

On 24/09/2019 at 12:59 PM, Towelie said:

Better and Shacklers are two of the best uptempos on the album. There's only two real uptempos on the Rough Mixes CD, otherwise it's one midtempo after another.

The album needed some variation in pace and BPM. That's what the 2008 album gave us and I'm thankful for that. 

I mean, considering it's a Rough Mixes CD, we can assume that the track sequence wasn't final, and that all the songs the album would feature aren't on CD1. I mean, the 2000/2001 album would have had at least 12 songs, 10 tunes are way too few for a Gn'R album, Lies notwithstanding. But I agree, the 10-track sequence, despite having some great segues (Madagascar>There Was a Time is fantastic), is missing at least two rockers, and a proper tracklist.

If we take a look at the other 4 CDs, we can take the two most fleshed-out rockers (I.R.S. and Hardschool from Rough Mixes CD3) and add them to the album, and update the track sequence so it looks something like this:

GUNS N' ROSES - CHINESE DEMOCRACY (2001)

Chinese Democracy - the only real contender for this spot, even though I kinda liked Madagascar opening
Madagascar - so I kept it as track 02, as it stays up top and makes for a fantastic 1-2 punch early on
There Was a Time - still following Madagascar, works perfectly
Atlas Shrugged - works pretty well as a change of pace after TWAT
Hardschool - in Perhaps' original spot, to keep side 1 from becoming too slow
Catcher in the Rye - obvious side 1 closer
-
I.R.S. - a hard rocking track to open side 2, not bad at all
Rhiad and the Bedouins - moved from side 1 closer to here, works much better
Perhaps - also moved in from side 1, works best in here as well
Silkworms - despite the dislike for this one, it would obviously be on the album, sorry folks
Street of Dreams - two power ballads to end the record? surprisingly, it works.
Prostitute - the obvious closer, much better in this spot than Silkworms could ever dream to be

Come on, this album is literally a final mix, mastering and an album cover away from being a finished product. Considering the Rough Mixes CD is from November 2000, they could easily release this by Summer 2001 with ease, to coincide with the tour. At 56 minutes, it's a great and much less overwrought album, at least to these eyes

[chester]

The album really needed to have 'Better' on it, it's simply the best pop song Axl has written (That we know of) since the UYI era. Otherwise I prefer the rough mixes of all the songs minus TWAT. 

[default_]

2 hours ago, chester said:

The album really needed to have 'Better' on it, it's simply the best pop song Axl has written (That we know of) since the UYI era. Otherwise I prefer the rough mixes of all the songs minus TWAT. 

Funny thing is that Axl didnt writte it. 

[Caedo]

22 minutes ago, default_ said:

Funny thing is that Axl didnt writte it. 

Hey wrote the lyrics and melody didn't he?

[chester]

3 hours ago, default_ said:

Funny thing is that Axl didnt writte it. 

Funny thing, he wrote the lyrics and created the vocal melody. I've listened to 3 dollar pyramid, Robin came in with a great idea and with contributions from Axl a great song was created.  

[Rovim]

15 minutes ago, chester said:

Funny thing, he wrote the lyrics and created the vocal melody. I've listened to 3 dollar pyramid, Robin came in with a great idea and with contributions from Axl a great song was created.  

and Fortus. He gave the song balls with his chorus riff idea imo. as far as which version I prefer: I have to go with the official release. Mainly cause of Bucket's contributions. I think Robin's and Bucket's styles go very well together. Note choices and guitar tone. Robin's phrasing has that cool staccato thing going on and is very soulful while Bucket brought the amazing technical ability and fluidity. 

very unfortunate that Tommy's bass is way less prominent and the drums are not anywhere near as in your face plus some of the magical vibe was lost like with Catcher and Pitman's work got diluted too.

[axljungle]

Oficial release. Love Scraped and like If The World, more than Silkworms and Perhaps. I would change Rhiad with Hardschool.

[ToonGuns]

On 24/09/2019 at 4:23 PM, Gackt said:

I bet if Axl went into a studio with Bucket, Brain, Melissa, Tobias and Dan Monti, they could have an album out within days.

I'd buy that

[ToonGuns]

On 24/09/2019 at 4:46 PM, aure69 said:

The 2008 album had one issue to me : that production sounded immediately fat and outdated, the RMCD1 sounds fresh, clear and spontaneous, this kind of sound never gets old. 

It seems incredible that they spent 8 years just to add Buckethead and Brain tracks and to fatten these songs. The most terrible idea has been to take out Atlas and Perhaps to replace them by Shackler's Revenge, Scraped or even Better. The only thing that could justify it is that CDII was indeed on track when CD was released and that hey kept Perhaps and Atlas for future CDII singles.

This 2006 quote of Axl really sums up everything : "To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement”

Now I would love an official boxset named “An unbearably long and incomprehensible journey” with all the CD era stuff, this would be fun after the "Not In This Lifetime" tour !

I'd also buy that 

[ToonGuns]

On 24/09/2019 at 4:24 PM, dogman said:

Here's how I rank the RMCD1 songs.  Ultimately, I like the 2008 Album better.  There are aspects from the album songs and all leaks that I like, but as a whole, I like the album that was released.

 

Madagascar RMCD1 < 2008 Album

TWAT RMCD1 < 2008 Album

Atlas Shrugged RMCD1 < Drums Up 1.5db Version

Perhaps RMCD1 > Original Leak

Prostitute RMCD1 < 2008 Album

Rhiad and the Bedhouins RMCD1 < Josh Freese Leak > 2008 Album

Catcher in the Rye RMCD1 > 2008 Album

Chinese Democracy RMCD1 < 2008 Album

The Blues RMCD1 < First 2019 Leak > 2008 Album

Silkworms RMCD1 > All Other SW Leaks

It's perfectly possible I've missed something, but won't the Perhaps original leak be the same as the Rough Mix version (I.e. the source of the original leak was the rough mic?). Or is there multiple sources?

[Sledge]

The guitar after "I don't know just what I should do" was such a little thing but was disappointed that it didn't make the album.