MANETS.FOREVER Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I've used this as an argument many times, and I decided to develop it.The Chinese Democracy total cost is $14,000,000, for all the produced songs throw the years. There's not an exact number of how many songs are there, but I believe the biggest report we had from a band member is 36. Notice that the less songs, bigger the profit, and I'm taking the biggest reported number.$14,000,000 for 36 songs leads us to an average of $388,888.888 for song, let's make it $389,000.OK then, we have 36 songs with a price of $389,000 each.On 2008 Best Buy paied $14,000,000 to have access to 14 songs (Which had previously leaked, so notice that Axl sold to Best Buy for an absurd price something we've had for years for free).Best Buy paied $1,000,000 for each of the 14 songs they bought, but it's production cost was "only" $389,000 each.14x389,000 = 5,446,000.There you are, that's the price of the UMG album launched in 2008, $5,446,000, and not 14 million as reported by the stupid media.If Best Buy paied $14,000,000 for the $5,446,000 album, that gives Guns N' Roses an instant profit of $8,554,000. INSTANT PROFIT.And not only, all the 22 remaining songs are already paied, so any future sequence is already paied, with a guarante of profit, since all the costs are paied.Best Buy paied Chinese Democracy I, II and III to have Chinese Democracy I.So yeah, $8,554,000 of instant profit, so even if Chinese Democracy had sold 0 copies it would be considered a commercial sucess, since the profit was bigger than the cost. But guess what... it sold more than 5 million copies!And with 50+ concerts on 2009-2011 with the cost of $1,300,000 each (producer TOLD ME by the phone when I managed to call them saying I was a journalist from São Paulo Daily making an article about the GNR South American tour lol), leads us to a big, big amount of money earned by Mr. Rose on the last 3 years.The numbers don't lie. Saying NuGNR or even Chinese Democracy is a faliure is stupid, and not correct. This is a fact, you can't argue with it.But hey what can I do? Haters gonna hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickingthehabit Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 These threads are silly. If you have to do all this to prove the album was a success it makes the album seem like less of a success, no? Even if your equations (rolling my eyes at that one) are all accurate, no one outside of the band's enthusiasts really cares. The album came and went. It didn't elevate Axl's Guns or make them legitimate in any way. The record company isn't exactly throwing millions at them to make the next project happen either. If you like the music, great. I think a lot of it is really cool. But these "statistics" reek of desperation..-Kickingthehabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Nova Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I guess you could say that for the record company and G N' R it was a financial success but an absolute disaster for Best Buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumblerose Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Do you have any idea what it cost to employ band members, managers, mixers, boardies and so on. The album was a lot to make but look outside of that, the album sales would never be more than what it cost in the process. GNR lost money. I love the album except rhiad but it did fail, no promotion (costs a lot) = shit sales. Woop meant roadies damn spell check on phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I offer you my reply which I posted in another forum to this exact same thread, if only to see other opinions as the other forum is decidedly slash leaning.In the words of Jules Winnfield, allow me to retort.The initial problems with your claims is the assumption that profit = success. That's a claim which in this specific case I disagree. Axl Rose has stated numerous times that all in all, sales do not matter to him and money doesn't either. Evidence of such is his willingness to spend millions on lawsuits that are at best frivolous. In the case of Chinese Democracy from things Axl has said, and make no mistake this is Axl's album, is to prove GN'R can attain relevance without the old member's specifically Slash; thus subconsciously he wanted to prove he was the creative genius behind Guns N' Roses and justify his actions leading to the album.Unfortunately, creative genius is subjective and cannot be proven through sales figures, making the money yet again irrelevant. What can be argued is his quest for relevance and in general respect. The reviews for the album upon release were above average and as a whole, unto itself the album was respected. The problem with that is, for Axl himself to become respected and justified in his handling of the Guns N' Roses name the album had to have been mind blowing, a modern Physical Graffiti. Frankly in my opinion and apparently the opinion of the general public, it wasn't. Axl may have regained respect musically by critics, but music fans in general didn't necessarily warm to it which leads me to my next point.Whether Axl will ever admit it or Slash will willingly participate, there truly is an Axl v. Slash battle in terms of relevancy, and it is without question Slash is winning (please let the mumblings of selling out subside). To true litmus test of regaining relevance for either is truly a battle of Velvet Revolver and Guns N' Roses, before working with Fergie and making an All Star solo album. Reason being that VR was Slash's first foray back into the public spotlight in a band. Slash had a much harder road to travel to regain love from music fans. He was in a new band with a new name, a singer possibly even more volatile than Axl, and without a history to back him up. Axl had the entire GN'R legacy behind him an (multiple) casts of virtuoso musicians. The fact that Velvet Revolver became such a success with all the odds stacked against was a miracle and that only made the expectations of axl higher. The album did not meet the expectations.The album failed not because of the lack of quality material or lack of sales. It failed because the expectations were too high not only by critics but by Axl himself. Let's not forget why expectations were so high, and that is solely because of the actions of Axl Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) It failed because the expectations were too high not only by critics but by Axl himself.Axl Rose qoute, interview in 2008: Of course not -- more unaccountable nonsense. Obviously, media, elements of the public, fans and our detractors had all kinds of things going on such as high hopes, expectations, pressure, naysayers, etc. I don't think anyone would mind discovering a diamond mine and I don't think anyone in any competitive field would get very far if they didn't have dreams, aspirations or simply hope to do well. That said, these types of comments are more from our detractors, pulled out of their ass if not thin air.Anyway. These threads are utter nonsense. Throwing around figures having no connection with reality... Edited May 12, 2011 by siliconmessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The label still incurred cost for the other 22 tracks tho so til that value is realised your numbers are flawed. Also don't assume that no more money will be spent touching up the other tracks- that'd be short sighted fo sho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrandyk Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Not a single part of your formula made sense. Unless something happens with the other 22 tracks that are supposed to happen each one of those tracks on CD cost a million dollars. And are you going to tell me that it isnt going to cost a dime to get them out on an album? I for one doubt those recordings ever make it out. If there ever is a second album it will be recorded with whatever flying circus Axl has surrounded himself with at the time. Edited May 12, 2011 by mrandyk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oktayyaxl Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I am totally agree with Manets.Forever..Chinese democracy is a major success..Only in usa is below expactations and ı think it's because of bestbuy.Also Chinese Democracy debuted at number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, more than nearly 100K of Bon Jovi's last album.The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina,Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.Chinese Democracy secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe.And ıt was before the world tour.As 2011 It has sold at least 1.400.000 copies all throuhg the europe ı guess...So when you do the mathUSA-BESTBUY : 1.6 Million - 630K(the copies that has sold in USA) + 970 K (BESTBUY bought 1.6 million copies) EUROPE : 1.4 MillionCanada : 240 K - Triple platinium in Canadajapan : 200KAustralia : 100KWhen you add the south America,Asia and the rest of the world sales. It has sold between 4-5 million copies worldwide.When you look at the other artist's last album's sales,You'll see that Chinese democracy has sold very well.Guns N Roses Chinese Democracy 4-5MVelvet revolver - libertad 800KIron Maiden - Final Frontier 1MU2 No line on the horizon 4MBon Jovi Circle 3MAc/Dc Black Ice 7MMetallica Death Magnetic 4,5MKillers Day and Age 3M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesPaul_Player_91 Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Also, lets not forget that Classic Rock Magazine made it album of the year in 2007 based on the leaks and their reviews of GN'R shows in 2006 were HIGHLY positive. So the fact that the album did make album (albeit early) of the year in the main rock magazine in the UK and there was a whole article earlier in the year praising the new music shows it wasn't a complete failure. Edited May 12, 2011 by LesPaul_Player_91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 The label still incurred cost for the other 22 tracks tho so til that value is realised your numbers are flawed. Also don't assume that no more money will be spent touching up the other tracks- that'd be short sighted fo sho.but didn't Axl pay for final touches out of his own pocket? great record anyway.CD is a big bucket of win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) less then a million sold in the US... Edited May 12, 2011 by SunnyDRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOUCOULDBEMINE. Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 less then a million sold in the US...none of the members in gn'r have Bieber or GaGa as their last name so it's obvious they wouldn't sell 8+million copies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 less then a million sold in the US...Said the person who called Brazil "Peru".... Wake up, man! I suggest you buy a globe or a World Atlas.... The US isn't the only country in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 less then a million sold in the US...On planet Earth, 4-5 million copies were sold and that's what matters.When talking pop culture, US is the most important market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDRE Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 less then a million sold in the US...none of the members in gn'r have Bieber or GaGa as their last name so it's obvious they wouldn't sell 8+million copiesBut their sooo talented... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Lady Gaga is cool and very talented. She and Axl working together would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Lady Gaga is cool and very talented.I'm very libertarian and all that, but people who have no real artistic ambition or any brain cells in their head should not be allowed to make "music".Eh?She knows how to play the piano. She does not use autotune. She is mainstream, but still the real deal.People are jealous because she is a succesful girl.She is a real artist, she is supporting good causes and awareness, and don´t go fucking say anything else. She´s a cool, smart and competent girl.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3R3KqrJAI4 Edited May 12, 2011 by siliconmessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Lady Gaga may be very talented but the music she releases is total garbage and its no fault of her own. The music industry tells her what to play, what to wear, how to talk etc......"Born this Way" is a direct copy of Madonna's "Express Yourself"How is that for talent?Seriously. What rock have some of you people been living under???Lady Gaga is NOTHING LIKE main-stream artists like Britney Spears, Justin Beiber and stuff...she is a reaction AGAINST these type of music products.About her clothing: She is a fashion-design freak. The music industry DOES NOT tell her what to wear (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/187387/lady-gaga-reveals-how-she-chooses-her-outfits.html). Don´t say things you don´t know shit about!She is a fucking fresh breath of air in todays shitty music-industry. She is a feminist/gay icon and supports young girls in a world that can be pretty harsh.She WRITES HER OWN MUSIC!What the fuck is wrong with people, seriously? Edited May 12, 2011 by siliconmessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeppelinrocksnexttognr Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 She's a cash cow for the record company, just like so many others before her. Regardless. If she did something with axl, it would be odd, but if done right would work well. Back on topic... it was a minor success, but not in the same way people expected. People were looking for the next AFD, and didn't get it. I for one, thought it was a brillant album. Just cuz it wasn't a mainstream or a runaway sucess shouldn't let what you feel about it matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Lady Gaga may be very talented but the music she releases is total garbage and its no fault of her own. The music industry tells her what to play, what to wear, how to talk etc......"Born this Way" is a direct copy of Madonna's "Express Yourself"How is that for talent?Seriously. What rock have some of you people been living under???Lady Gaga is NOTHING LIKE main-stream artists like Britney Spears, Justin Beiber and stuff...she is a reaction AGAINST these type of music products.About her clothing: She is a fashion-design freak. The music industry DOES NOT tell her what to wear (http://www.showbizspy.com/article/187387/lady-gaga-reveals-how-she-chooses-her-outfits.html). Don´t say things you don´t know shit about!She is a fucking fresh breath of air in todays shitty music-industry. She is a feminist/gay icon and supports young girls in a world that can be pretty harsh.She WRITES HER OWN MUSIC!What the fuck is wrong with people, seriously?Man, I respect your opinion but the way I see it, she makes up for making mediocre dance-pop music by writing controversial lyrics and dressing like she does. It's all too much advertising, too much propaganda for lousy ordinary pop music Madonna has been making for decades. The difference is that she intelligently focused her market on a section of society that had no artistic representation on contemporary days, the homosexual society. A person who attends the Grammys in a capsule and wears a meat dress in some other award show is in desperate need of attention, and an artist who trully makes music that can distinguish them from all the other crap doesn't need to do that to promote themselves. I hope you know I am not saying this to impose my opinion, I just think Lady Gaga is way too overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Nothing special about Gaga and in about 10 years nobody will even know her.Just like any 15 year old today does not know who Axl Rose is...But, you know. She will maybe then have a homepage like www.myladygagaforum.com, and a couple of thousands of fans will be discussing her music. Edited May 12, 2011 by siliconmessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Ok now you are trolling. Everybody on the planet knows who Axl Rose is wehter they like his music or not. Thank you for the laugh of the day. You are a sad man volcano.I don´t know what world you´re living in, but the relevance and knowledge of Axl Rose among people now in 2011 isn´t as big as you think.I would like it to be otherwise though. You should have credit for defending Axl, as that´s all that you try to do in your days.I dare to critizise Axl for how he´s acting towards the fans and with the brand Guns N´ Roses. How everyday that goes is a scratch on GNR´s golden legacy. How had everything laid out for him in 2002, but he failed miserably and it all fell apart.I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are to yours. You should keep on defending him. It makes good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewGNRnOldGNR Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I Finck "Chinese Democracy" is a Huge success that made a lot of people Dizzy with its complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest siliconmessiah Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 (edited) Ok now you are trolling. Everybody on the planet knows who Axl Rose is wehter they like his music or not. Thank you for the laugh of the day. You are a sad man volcano.I don´t know what world you´re living in, but the relevance and knowledge of Axl Rose among people now in 2011 isn´t as big as you think.I would like it to be otherwise though. You should have credit for defending Axl, as that´s all that you try to do in your days.I dare to critizise Axl for how he´s acting towards the fans and with the brand Guns N´ Roses. How everyday that goes is a scratch on GNR´s golden legacy. How had everything laid out for him in 2002, but he failed miserably and it all fell apart.I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are to yours. You should keep on defending him. It makes good fun.Words of a defeated man. i feel bad for you. Get a girlfriend and a job loser.No problem man. I know you can run out of things to say when it comes to defend Axl Rose, his way of running Guns N´ Roses and his constant silence.Btw. I have both a job & a girlfriend. Edited May 12, 2011 by siliconmessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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