Enough is enough

[SoulMonster]

Now,before anyone screams their tits off about censorship and segregation and all that bollocks,,as we've stated several times already,we plan on something for everyone.There will be a section for people to post controversial GnR topics,and it will be loosely moderated.It's a 'venture in if you have the sack for it' approach.If nuGnR fans want to venture in and debate any threads, have at it.If a nuGnR fan has a thread idea about the classic line up or a former gunner etc.,post it...knowing that classic GnR fans just might very well challenge you.Test the waters,but don't be surprised if you get dragged under.

dig?

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated. Why not just ban those that consistently hate on Guns N' Roses - new or old?

[TAYLOR]

god no wonder i dont post much these days i rember joining up when we had no news axl was still hiding and this place used to be fun

[Zint]

Admins, mods PLEASE do something to stop all this shit. It´s really annoying and it´s a pitty that this is turning into a playground.

Thanks for the message NR,we hear you and we recognize your concerns.

The mods/admins are fully aware of the situation and we do plan to rectify it,hopefully in a manner that will be acceptable to all.

See..we do have plans.This has been stated before but we've been having mod conferences.We're hashing out plans and ideas...listening to each others concerns and ideas,trying to sort out the best approach and what plans to go with and how best to implement them.

Lots of people working on different aspects and still new ideas pop up that we consider and take a look at.

On top of all that,we are in a situation where the mod team just happens to be swamped in real life.Some are working ridiculously long days at the moment,some are just finishing up exams,a death is being dealt with..and on top of that,we get here when we can as soon as we can.

Yeah I guess I'm using timing as reasoning for the bogdown,but what can you do?

What I want to convey to you though,wholeheartedly from all of us,we have not abandoned the members here who share your viewpoint.We do plan to address the situation in a proactive way that we think will offer something for everyone,and more importantly...allow people space.There will be a scetion where fans of the current line up can go just to be fans,interact with other likeminded fans..and just enjoy.

I don't think that it can be stressed enough (and it seems to have gone somewhat overlooked as of late) but Subs is a HUGE nuGnR fan.

See...he wants to be here as a fan as well,just a fan. He wants a section that is hassle free for people just to have a good time and enjoy themselves as current line up fans.Hassle free being the key...and you will get that section.

Now,before anyone screams their tits off about censorship and segregation and all that bollocks,,as we've stated several times already,we plan on something for everyone.There will be a section for people to post controversial GnR topics,and it will be loosely moderated.It's a 'venture in if you have the sack for it' approach.If nuGnR fans want to venture in and debate any threads, have at it.If a nuGnR fan has a thread idea about the classic line up or a former gunner etc.,post it...knowing that classic GnR fans just might very well challenge you.Test the waters,but don't be surprised if you get dragged under.

dig?

And for people who don't want (or don't care about) the bollocks threads,there's going be a section for people to celebrate,discuss and enjoy the classic eras as well.

And oh yeah...after years of fighting for it (and now with strong backing from ER)...I've finally landed a SLASH section!!B)

(thanks for that guys!!)

AND...there's some cool surprises up our sleeves too!

I would also like to say that,in light of the mood,turn of events and certain attitude around here in the last few weeks,it's only making it easier for us to justify the plans we have almost ready to put in place.So,as frustrating as it is for some of you at the moment,it's all definitely working in your favour when all is said and done.

So please,bear with us a bit longer,good things coming...respect for all will be the key,honouring each others space.

What we can't stress enough is,allowing each and every member to just have fun.

Something for everyone,whatever your point of view is,wherever your fandom is at...there will be a place for you to speak your mind.

I don't know if I'm overstepping the line by spilling some details,but I chose to do so based on the level of frustration that's building in this section.It was done so with good intent.We value and respect all eras of Guns n Roses and fans thereof,we just want to implement a bit of proposed civility in regards to the forum approach.

Hang in there Mygnr peeps,we're on it...just need a bit more time.

cheers

Thanks Zint, I appreciate the note to everyone and i understand why you typed this out, no problem at all. I'm sorry everyone, I've got issues in 'real time' which means this week has been difficult not to be around as much as I would have liked.

Forum restructure is 100% agreed guys and will work in conjunction with the new rules, asap.

I appreciate and respect both the kind words and the critisism in this thread - We're trying really hard guys i just dont know what more you want me to say really at this point?

I'm certain the large majority of you will be happy with the final changes and in the meantime (if indeed I'M also allowed to honest) i think a small minority have been equally obtuse, which I've found disappointing but hey-ho that's what i signed myself up for here I guess, when taking on financial restraints and effectively saving a dying forum.

Exciting times ahead, i promise.

I just want to make clear that my intentions with this topic were not to judge or despise the admins/mods work.I felt happy when I knew Subs & co were in charge of this place. I know you all have lives, jobs and deal with issues as do most of us, and some of you don´t even live in the same continent so I understand you can´t be online 24 hours a day. My condolences to the one of you who is dealing with the death and best wishes, honestly.

I had a bad day yesterday and came here to read but found more of the same bullshit and that is why I decided to start this topic. We all have bad days and we don´t react the same way everyday,do we?. I don´t read all the ridiculous topics I find ( reading the title gives an idea of their content ) but it´s pretty annoying to surf the main section and find the first pages crowded with these topics. That is why I said all I said, I didn´t mean to sound like any kind of "dictator" and tell people what they can or cannot post. I´m just a forum member and I´m entitled to my opinion and I have the same rights than others. So, if someone is free to start bullshit I´m also free to voice my opinion against it.

Wow?

I thought I was doing the right thing by politely responding to your concerns.

Wasn't expecting that reply...oh well,damned if you do,damned if you don't.

[Zint]

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated. Why not just ban those that consistently hate on Guns N' Roses - new or old?

SoulMonster also said..

It is obvious trolling when people keep polluting the main section with irrelevant trivia about some ex-members who haven't been part of GN'R for god knows how long. Just because you believe a certain subject is interesting doesn't give you any right to post it wherever you want. And if there is no sections on this forum where it naturally fits in, either because such a section simply doesn't exist,

Make up your mind man!

[Dazey]

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated. Why not just ban those that consistently hate on Guns N' Roses - new or old?

SoulMonster also said..

It is obvious trolling when people keep polluting the main section with irrelevant trivia about some ex-members who haven't been part of GN'R for god knows how long. Just because you believe a certain subject is interesting doesn't give you any right to post it wherever you want. And if there is no sections on this forum where it naturally fits in, either because such a section simply doesn't exist,

Make up your mind man!

Edited June 30, 2012 by Dazey

[The Wicked Hand]

Maybe lord Axl will grace us w a vocal on top of a shity po man's Scott strorch beat. He is truly a vessel for divine creativity.

[SoulMonster]

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated. Why not just ban those that consistently hate on Guns N' Roses - new or old?

SoulMonster also said..

It is obvious trolling when people keep polluting the main section with irrelevant trivia about some ex-members who haven't been part of GN'R for god knows how long. Just because you believe a certain subject is interesting doesn't give you any right to post it wherever you want. And if there is no sections on this forum where it naturally fits in, either because such a section simply doesn't exist,

Make up your mind man!

You don't see the difference between "hate threads" and "irrelevant trivia about ex-members"? Let me take the time to really make it clear what I mean:

If this forum is intended for every fan of GN'R then it should present arenas for every discussion about GN'R to take place. This could happen in separate sections (e.g. one for old and one for new guns) or it could be just one section for all discussions regarding GN'R (like some here advocate). If the forum wants extra traffic then it could also add sections for non-GN'R topics (e.g. sections for discussing former members current projects). All this, and the associated sectioning, is things I talked about in that second quote.

What I talked about in the first quote is hate threads. Threads that are designed to rile up fans, e.g. threads that attack "needlessly" Slash and his contributions to the legacy of GN'R, or threads that "needlessly" attack the current incarnation. It seemed to me like you want to make a section for such threads to take place. Basically accommodating people who come here only for teh shits and giggles they get from provoking the fan base. My question was, if this is the case and I have interpreted your post correctly, why? Why not rather ban people who constantly attack the band we are supposedly all fans of? And my apologies if I misunderstood you.

[izzygirl]

Are we still discussing this? really? You're boring people, move on!

[November_rain]

Admins, mods PLEASE do something to stop all this shit. It´s really annoying and it´s a pitty that this is turning into a playground.

Thanks for the message NR,we hear you and we recognize your concerns.

The mods/admins are fully aware of the situation and we do plan to rectify it,hopefully in a manner that will be acceptable to all.

See..we do have plans.This has been stated before but we've been having mod conferences.We're hashing out plans and ideas...listening to each others concerns and ideas,trying to sort out the best approach and what plans to go with and how best to implement them.

Lots of people working on different aspects and still new ideas pop up that we consider and take a look at.

On top of all that,we are in a situation where the mod team just happens to be swamped in real life.Some are working ridiculously long days at the moment,some are just finishing up exams,a death is being dealt with..and on top of that,we get here when we can as soon as we can.

Yeah I guess I'm using timing as reasoning for the bogdown,but what can you do?

What I want to convey to you though,wholeheartedly from all of us,we have not abandoned the members here who share your viewpoint.We do plan to address the situation in a proactive way that we think will offer something for everyone,and more importantly...allow people space.There will be a scetion where fans of the current line up can go just to be fans,interact with other likeminded fans..and just enjoy.

I don't think that it can be stressed enough (and it seems to have gone somewhat overlooked as of late) but Subs is a HUGE nuGnR fan.

See...he wants to be here as a fan as well,just a fan. He wants a section that is hassle free for people just to have a good time and enjoy themselves as current line up fans.Hassle free being the key...and you will get that section.

Now,before anyone screams their tits off about censorship and segregation and all that bollocks,,as we've stated several times already,we plan on something for everyone.There will be a section for people to post controversial GnR topics,and it will be loosely moderated.It's a 'venture in if you have the sack for it' approach.If nuGnR fans want to venture in and debate any threads, have at it.If a nuGnR fan has a thread idea about the classic line up or a former gunner etc.,post it...knowing that classic GnR fans just might very well challenge you.Test the waters,but don't be surprised if you get dragged under.

dig?

And for people who don't want (or don't care about) the bollocks threads,there's going be a section for people to celebrate,discuss and enjoy the classic eras as well.

And oh yeah...after years of fighting for it (and now with strong backing from ER)...I've finally landed a SLASH section!!B)

(thanks for that guys!!)

AND...there's some cool surprises up our sleeves too!

I would also like to say that,in light of the mood,turn of events and certain attitude around here in the last few weeks,it's only making it easier for us to justify the plans we have almost ready to put in place.So,as frustrating as it is for some of you at the moment,it's all definitely working in your favour when all is said and done.

So please,bear with us a bit longer,good things coming...respect for all will be the key,honouring each others space.

What we can't stress enough is,allowing each and every member to just have fun.

Something for everyone,whatever your point of view is,wherever your fandom is at...there will be a place for you to speak your mind.

I don't know if I'm overstepping the line by spilling some details,but I chose to do so based on the level of frustration that's building in this section.It was done so with good intent.We value and respect all eras of Guns n Roses and fans thereof,we just want to implement a bit of proposed civility in regards to the forum approach.

Hang in there Mygnr peeps,we're on it...just need a bit more time.

cheers

Thanks Zint, I appreciate the note to everyone and i understand why you typed this out, no problem at all. I'm sorry everyone, I've got issues in 'real time' which means this week has been difficult not to be around as much as I would have liked.

Forum restructure is 100% agreed guys and will work in conjunction with the new rules, asap.

I appreciate and respect both the kind words and the critisism in this thread - We're trying really hard guys i just dont know what more you want me to say really at this point?

I'm certain the large majority of you will be happy with the final changes and in the meantime (if indeed I'M also allowed to honest) i think a small minority have been equally obtuse, which I've found disappointing but hey-ho that's what i signed myself up for here I guess, when taking on financial restraints and effectively saving a dying forum.

Exciting times ahead, i promise.

I just want to make clear that my intentions with this topic were not to judge or despise the admins/mods work.I felt happy when I knew Subs & co were in charge of this place. I know you all have lives, jobs and deal with issues as do most of us, and some of you don´t even live in the same continent so I understand you can´t be online 24 hours a day. My condolences to the one of you who is dealing with the death and best wishes, honestly.

I had a bad day yesterday and came here to read but found more of the same bullshit and that is why I decided to start this topic. We all have bad days and we don´t react the same way everyday,do we?. I don´t read all the ridiculous topics I find ( reading the title gives an idea of their content ) but it´s pretty annoying to surf the main section and find the first pages crowded with these topics. That is why I said all I said, I didn´t mean to sound like any kind of "dictator" and tell people what they can or cannot post. I´m just a forum member and I´m entitled to my opinion and I have the same rights than others. So, if someone is free to start bullshit I´m also free to voice my opinion against it.

Wow?

I thought I was doing the right thing by politely responding to your concerns.

Wasn't expecting that reply...oh well,damned if you do,damned if you don't.

Sorry I didn´t mean to create a misunderstanding. English isn´t my native language and sometimes I don´t know how to say what I really mean. The second part of my post was not addressed at you but to "certain people" that accused me of certain things.

[PirateChick]

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated. Why not just ban those that consistently hate on Guns N' Roses - new or old?

SoulMonster also said..

It is obvious trolling when people keep polluting the main section with irrelevant trivia about some ex-members who haven't been part of GN'R for god knows how long. Just because you believe a certain subject is interesting doesn't give you any right to post it wherever you want. And if there is no sections on this forum where it naturally fits in, either because such a section simply doesn't exist,

Make up your mind man!

Thanks for your explanation ZInt, but I agree with SM, why do you think the forum needs a section to hate the current (or the old) GNR line up? They have both been important and they both deserve respect.

And why would we need a slash section? There's already a section dedicated to the old band, if some people need to worship slash they can register at VR's forum, like his facebook page or become friends with him on the facebook.

Take what I wrote as a personal opinion, I'm not complaining about your decision as we can decide to skip a particular section of the forum. But it seems to me that you are trying to please everybody and that's impossible as no matter what you do, people will never be satisfied

Thank you for moving the nonsense threads

[The Linguini Occurrence]

Why would you have a dedicated section that seems to be designed for people to post hate threads about any incarnation of Guns N' Roses on this forum? It seems like what you are doing is accommodating a section for all the cupcakes, like as if they have some value to this forum and should be placated.

I view it more as a place where fans with differing viewpoints are allowed to go at it with each other without fear of being reprimanded. It's definitely not my thing, but there ARE many online people who actually enjoy getting into arguments just like there are many people in the real world who enjoy getting into fistfights. So why not provide a place for them to play? It's not uncommon with other forums, usually the play area requires a login so that non-members visiting the site don't stumble upon the play area and get the wrong impression about the entire site.

And those who would enjoy using such a section do indeed have value, as they help boost the all-important visits/views/hits count which drives advertising revenue.

[Dazey]

Thanks for your explanation ZInt, but I agree with SM, why do you think the forum needs a section to hate the current (or the old) GNR line up? They have both been important and they both deserve respect.

It's a fantastic idea and a great compromise. Think about it for a second, he said "controversial topics" not an out and out hate free for all. Consider also if you will the flipside of the argument. Does this not make things so much easier from both yours and the mods' perspective? Controversial topics can now be moved with nobody having an excuse to cry censorship and without the mods having to worry about whether they can justify moving certain threads.

[Guest Gunns]

I think its a good idea, it helps to create a clear division from 'controversial' threads, and those that are on current gnr, and supported with facts, or if they happen to be based on rumors.

I welcome it! , can't wait!

[PirateChick]

Thanks for your explanation ZInt, but I agree with SM, why do you think the forum needs a section to hate the current (or the old) GNR line up? They have both been important and they both deserve respect.

It's a fantastic idea and a great compromise. Think about it for a second, he said "controversial topics" not an out and out hate free for all. Consider also if you will the flipside of the argument. Does this not make things so much easier from both yours and the mods' perspective? Controversial topics can now be moved with nobody having an excuse to cry censorship and without the mods having to worry about whether they can justify moving certain threads.

oh I misunderstood and thought it was going to be a hating section

[Patience 4 Axl]

Unbelievable.

Subs and his team are trying their best to accomodate ALL fans. Old, new, and everyone in between. Interesting to note who are the ones complaining.

The biggest issue with nufans seems to be logging on to the main section and seeing threads they don't approve of. Doesn't this, in theory, help solve the problem? You will have your own little quiet section for Axl and the guys in his band currently, without the distractions from other posters who may have different opinions. A Slash section (awesome guys!) and a section for threads that promote interesting discussion, won't interupt the love fest for anyone else. Not only would they not need to click on a thread they may be too emotionally fragile to read, they won't even see it because it won't be in their section. I think it's a win / win. They provided a brief outline, I don't see the need to complain before anything is even implemented and we see how it works out.

[SoulMonster]

And those who would enjoy using such a section do indeed have value, as they help boost the all-important visits/views/hits count which drives advertising revenue.

Ah, that could explain why a forum would try to accommodate people who aren't fans.

[hellobeatle]

You ppl need lives

[SoulMonster]

Unbelievable.

Subs and his team are trying their best to accomodate ALL fans. Old, new, and everyone in between. Interesting to note who are the ones complaining.

I am not complaining, I asked a question and it seems The Linguinine Occurence may have given me the answer.

[Dazey]

Unbelievable.

Subs and his team are trying their best to accomodate ALL fans. Old, new, and everyone in between. Interesting to note who are the ones complaining.

The biggest issue with nufans seems to be logging on to the main section and seeing threads they don't approve of. Doesn't this, in theory, help solve the problem? You will have your own little quiet section for Axl and the guys in his band currently, without the distractions from other posters who may have different opinions. A Slash section (awesome guys!) and a section for threads that promote interesting discussion, won't interupt the love fest for anyone else. Not only would they not need to click on a thread they may be too emotionally fragile to read, they won't even see it because it won't be in their section. I think it's a win / win. They provided a brief outline, I don't see the need to complain before anything is even implemented and we see how it works out.

Marry me!

[PirateChick]

Unbelievable.

Subs and his team are trying their best to accomodate ALL fans. Old, new, and everyone in between. Interesting to note who are the ones complaining.

The biggest issue with nufans seems to be logging on to the main section and seeing threads they don't approve of. Doesn't this, in theory, help solve the problem? You will have your own little quiet section for Axl and the guys in his band currently, without the distractions from other posters who may have different opinions. A Slash section (awesome guys!) and a section for threads that promote interesting discussion, won't interupt the love fest for anyone else. Not only would they not need to click on a thread they may be too emotionally fragile to read, they won't even see it because it won't be in their section. I think it's a win / win. They provided a brief outline, I don't see the need to complain before anything is even implemented and we see how it works out.

"emotionally fragile"? hahaha nah

Some of the people here do actually have a life and come here to get news about the tour, which are buried by stupid topics like "how does Axl pee"

[Patience 4 Axl]

I can't think of anything else that would cause people so much distress when coming to a forum on their own free will.

Unbelievable.

Subs and his team are trying their best to accomodate ALL fans. Old, new, and everyone in between. Interesting to note who are the ones complaining.

The biggest issue with nufans seems to be logging on to the main section and seeing threads they don't approve of. Doesn't this, in theory, help solve the problem? You will have your own little quiet section for Axl and the guys in his band currently, without the distractions from other posters who may have different opinions. A Slash section (awesome guys!) and a section for threads that promote interesting discussion, won't interupt the love fest for anyone else. Not only would they not need to click on a thread they may be too emotionally fragile to read, they won't even see it because it won't be in their section. I think it's a win / win. They provided a brief outline, I don't see the need to complain before anything is even implemented and we see how it works out.

"emotionally fragile"? hahaha nah

Some of the people here do actually have a life and come here to get news about the tour, which are buried by stupid topics like "how does Axl pee"

That's the only explanation I can come up with. I can't think of anything else that would cause posters so much distress when they come to a forum of their own free will and then sound miserable and complain about threads they don't like. I didn't like some of the threads either, but quite honestly it didn't take all that much effort on my part to scroll down and find another thread I may have found more interesting. Telling posters "don't click on the thread" doesn't seem to help. The mere fact of it's very existence seems to be enough to make them unhappy and set them over the edge. Other than medication, the mods' plans seem to be the next best thing to help these people.

Edited June 30, 2012 by Patience 4 Axl

[chokes]

Admins, mods PLEASE do something to stop all this shit. It´s really annoying and it´s a pitty that this is turning into a playground.

Thanks for the message NR,we hear you and we recognize your concerns.

The mods/admins are fully aware of the situation and we do plan to rectify it,hopefully in a manner that will be acceptable to all.

See..we do have plans.This has been stated before but we've been having mod conferences.We're hashing out plans and ideas...listening to each others concerns and ideas,trying to sort out the best approach and what plans to go with and how best to implement them.

Lots of people working on different aspects and still new ideas pop up that we consider and take a look at.

On top of all that,we are in a situation where the mod team just happens to be swamped in real life.Some are working ridiculously long days at the moment,some are just finishing up exams,a death is being dealt with..and on top of that,we get here when we can as soon as we can.

Yeah I guess I'm using timing as reasoning for the bogdown,but what can you do?

What I want to convey to you though,wholeheartedly from all of us,we have not abandoned the members here who share your viewpoint.We do plan to address the situation in a proactive way that we think will offer something for everyone,and more importantly...allow people space.There will be a scetion where fans of the current line up can go just to be fans,interact with other likeminded fans..and just enjoy.

I don't think that it can be stressed enough (and it seems to have gone somewhat overlooked as of late) but Subs is a HUGE nuGnR fan.

See...he wants to be here as a fan as well,just a fan. He wants a section that is hassle free for people just to have a good time and enjoy themselves as current line up fans.Hassle free being the key...and you will get that section.

Now,before anyone screams their tits off about censorship and segregation and all that bollocks,,as we've stated several times already,we plan on something for everyone.There will be a section for people to post controversial GnR topics,and it will be loosely moderated.It's a 'venture in if you have the sack for it' approach.If nuGnR fans want to venture in and debate any threads, have at it.If a nuGnR fan has a thread idea about the classic line up or a former gunner etc.,post it...knowing that classic GnR fans just might very well challenge you.Test the waters,but don't be surprised if you get dragged under.

dig?

And for people who don't want (or don't care about) the bollocks threads,there's going be a section for people to celebrate,discuss and enjoy the classic eras as well.

And oh yeah...after years of fighting for it (and now with strong backing from ER)...I've finally landed a SLASH section!!B)

(thanks for that guys!!)

AND...there's some cool surprises up our sleeves too! B)

I would also like to say that,in light of the mood,turn of events and certain attitude around here in the last few weeks,it's only making it easier for us to justify the plans we have almost ready to put in place.So,as frustrating as it is for some of you at the moment,it's all definitely working in your favour when all is said and done.

So please,bear with us a bit longer,good things coming...respect for all will be the key,honouring each others space.

What we can't stress enough is,allowing each and every member to just have fun.

Something for everyone,whatever your point of view is,wherever your fandom is at...there will be a place for you to speak your mind.

I don't know if I'm overstepping the line by spilling some details,but I chose to do so based on the level of frustration that's building in this section.It was done so with good intent.We value and respect all eras of Guns n Roses and fans thereof,we just want to implement a bit of proposed civility in regards to the forum approach.

Hang in there Mygnr peeps,we're on it...just need a bit more time.

cheers

Have i understood this right, in your commendable search to accomodate everyone you have chosen to create a 'nuGnR' section and handed the main forum to the cupcakes?

[Dazey]

Have i understood this right, in your commendable search to accomodate everyone you have chosen to create a 'nuGnR' section and handed the main forum to the cupcakes?

No you've understood it completely wrong.

[fred_carston]

Interests

General

guns n' roses

Music

Track List: 1 Tiger Flowers 2 Canelo 3 The Sweet Science 4 Ghost With A Hammer In His Hand 5 Suzy Q 6 The President and The Duke 7 Touch Of Sleep 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Movies

legend of the red panda tracklisting

googling led me here http://www.myspace.com/ginhotel wtf

[OkCalculator]

Everyone should take some time and read the forum rules.

My favorite is now included in my sig.