How successful has the touring been in legitimizing nΣwGuns to the populace?

[Guest NGOG]

I think Axl just tours cause he owes money to who ever produced CD,

Caram Costanzo seems to tour with the band almost like a bounty hunter, so maybe.

[DownUnderScott]

Good Question... I think that the tide is actually finally turning for Axl and this line-up. It's just a feeling I have had over the last 12 months or so. The extra publicity and exposure has obviously done the world of good.

I heard the other day an advertisement for the Guns N Roses tour here in Australia. They used Paradise City in the background which is a shame, would have been nice to hear a snippet of Better or Chinese Democracy maybe, and the voice-over man said something like come and see "Axl and the Boys" rock out...

I think a lot of people now realise Slash is gone and apart from Hardcore fans that's all GnR was. Majority of concert goers wouldn't be able to tell you who else was in the AFD line-up all those years back. It was just Axl and Slash.

But yeah , in answer to the original post - I reckon the world is finally getting the picture. I hope that points to a brighter future for this awesome band and a new album.

[DieselDaisy]

When I see them live I go to see 'Axl Rose' - still one of the best frontmen although his voice isn't what it was. In my head, I am not going to see 'Guns N' Roses'. Both consciously and subconsciously I do not consider this 'Guns N' Roses': I simply cannot bring myself to say things like, ''I am going to see Guns N' Roses''.

[wasted]

I just see GNR as Axl Rose and whoever he worked with on each project. Sometimes you think what if such and such but what has happened is something else. Pretty awesome material across all the albums.

[magisme]

I just see GNR as Axl Rose and whoever he worked with on each project. Sometimes you think what if such and such but what has happened is something else. Pretty awesome material across all the albums.

It's not even worth it with some of these posts.

[classicrawker]

To me, people expecting Axl to release new music are ALMOST as stupid as people expecting a reunion. We will either get leaks or nothing. Not while Axl still has a pulse at least.

Aren't you and I betting on the sales output of the next record? Why yes we are. You agreed to that bet... so to me anyway, that means somewhere deep down, on some level, in your heart of hearts, you believe there will be another album eventually. =b

You just keep that hundred ready for when I win the bet.

Really your betting? how many units do you think the next nuGuns album will sell? and if it is more than million I want in on the bet becasue I don't think it breaks a million this time..........Since sales are a cummulative thing I think a better bet is how many units will it sell the first week as that will usually give you an idea how successful and album will be.........

[OJones90]

Depends. I'm not sure if they should be called Guns N Roses. They kiiiind of should, because i believe Axl was always the driving force behind the band. But personally, I really don't care what they're called, it doesn't bother me. I love the originals but the current lineup is awesome whatever they're called, and my favourite band today. Seen them 3 times, and I will never witness better gigs. That must count for something, right?

Also, despite me absolutely loving the originals, i'm pretty sure my favourite live performances from a lot of the songs happened from 2006 onwards......

I suppose they have to bring out an album to establish themselves as a legit lineup, since they've gone through a couple of changes after Chinese Democracy.

Edited February 3, 2013 by OJones90

[DieselDaisy]

I couldn't see a new album shipping more than two-hundred thousand units unless Axl somehow manages to establish a mega-single from it (music video, airplay etc). Currently, it would struggle to out-perform Snakepit #2. I still say Axl should release material of course; I am not one of these who believes artists should stop releasing stuff merely because the music industry is in unhealthy shape.

[trqster]

New fans (kids) will probably accept and like nuGn'R as the real deal. Me as an old-fuck (38) just accept Axl's delusion to call his own private band GnR instead of AXL or something more logical, but having witnessed the real GnR playing back on the day I'll never confuse them for being the same.

[saber_]

To me, people expecting Axl to release new music are ALMOST as stupid as people expecting a reunion. We will either get leaks or nothing. Not while Axl still has a pulse at least.

Aren't you and I betting on the sales output of the next record? Why yes we are. You agreed to that bet... so to me anyway, that means somewhere deep down, on some level, in your heart of hearts, you believe there will be another album eventually. =b

You just keep that hundred ready for when I win the bet.

Really your betting? how many units do you think the next nuGuns album will sell? and if it is more than million I want in on the bet becasue I don't think it breaks a million this time..........Since sales are a cummulative thing I think a better bet is how many units will it sell the first week as that will usually give you an idea how successful and album will be.........

Yes we are betting. C'mon classicrawker, you even posted in the thread, lol: Do you think that Guns n Roses' next album will sell 1,000,000 units or more in three months or less?

Bobbo and I hashed out the details back in early September 2012. 100 bucks for me if the album breaks a million in 3 months or less. 100 bucks for him if it doesn't.

[James Bond]

Depends. I'm not sure if they should be called Guns N Roses. They kiiiind of should, because i believe Axl was always the driving force behind the band. But personally, I really don't care what they're called, it doesn't bother me. I love the originals but the current lineup is awesome whatever they're called, and my favourite band today. Seen them 3 times, and I will never witness better gigs. That must count for something, right?

Also, despite me absolutely loving the originals, i'm pretty sure my favourite live performances from a lot of the songs happened from 2006 onwards......

I suppose they have to bring out an album to establish themselves as a legit lineup, since they've gone through a couple of changes after Chinese Democracy.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. The problem with the current line-up is they have yet to release material of their own. Axl aside, really only Tommy and Dizzy had a big part in Chinese Democracy. I guess you can count Chris too. Fortus barely played a note on the album which is blasphemy, and Frank and Bumble only added bits and pieces later on. DJ wasn't involved in any way. I want to see an album from this line-up because that is the true way to legitimize them as a solid band rather than just "Axl's backing musicians" or a "cover band" which are labels that get hard to defend sometimes because you can see exactly where people are coming from.

[dalsh327]

I think Axl just tours cause he owes money to who ever produced CD, I mean it is the most expensive album ever. Also to answer the question I dont think people have accepted NuGnR as Guns N Roses, the sales are merely a sign of how popular the name is and how much Axl was missed by his fans.

Michael Jackson's the king of most expensive album ever made (Invincible). There's some similarities between what happened to Michael and Axl.

Just from what Mottola said about Michael Jackson's "Invincible", I have to think Iovine felt the same way about "Chinese Democracy".

Too many cooks in Axl's kitchen, and hopefully the band has more control over the songs. I think Iovine's partly to blame, but he wasn't the only one from the record company who caused the problems.

Like Tommy Mottola put it, just because he was married to Mariah Carey, didn't mean he was the only one working with her, she had 50 other people from the record company coming at her, and he had other pains in the asses like Celine Dion, Streisand & J-Lo to deal with...and MIchael Jackson at the time. We're thinking in terms of one person to blame, but that's not the case. It's impossible for someone who's running a major record label to cater to each and every artist, esp. if they're not the record label breadwinner at the time.

Axl gave his opinion in the Billboard interview, so I won't copy/paste quotes from it.

[dalsh327]

When the DVD comes out, I'll give a guesstimate on how much a new GNR CD will sell.

I think they might put an EP out next to test the waters, because they've never done online sales before. I think there's enough interest to sell over 100K, which is pretty respectable if they did a "grass roots" type of release, meaning social media sells it, not the record company. They don't need a "video", just a few hours during rehearsal to shoot them on stage playing the song, and maybe bring some fans in if they need warm bodies for the shoot.

[gnrfan2007]

The right word to use is not LEGITIMAZE.

The right word is: RE-BRANDING

Let's be real, the GnR brand took a huge hit and went on a huge decline post-1991, especially in the USA. The '80s rock sound and culture became uncool. People jumped off the '80s GnR band wagon, as many people switched their allegiance to alternative rock bands. GnR had no more RELEVANCY in pop culture and music. Record sales declined dramatically. People had no more appetitite for Joe-Perry inspired riffs and solos. The '80s GnR brand of rock music was done.

We all remember Axl's famous rant about alternative bands and "Kurt Cobain" because they were the folks who lead the GnR bashing and thought they were too cool for GnR.

Slash's media whoring and Carlos Santana impersonations did not help GnR's image as well as it made GnR seem like a joke pop rock band.

Just like Metallica and U2, GnR needs a make-over so to speak ... a RE-BRANDING to fit the times ... to help folks de-associate GnR from Slash's media whoring and to escape the negative stigmatization caused by the alternative rock era ...

A RE-BRANDING to regain RELEVANCY again.

Imagine if GnR never released CD and just did a reunion tour. All it would have done is further tarnish GnR's legacy as just another Motley Crue band looking to make money on a nostagia tour.

So the CD touring helps people see that this band is no longer that '80s sleazy, leather-pants wearing, and big hair band (as @RustyCage called it: the "biker look") that people imagine when they think of GnR.

The touring helps people hear the new music and see that the band actually has real musical artistic abilities beyond using the same chords, riffs, style, and blues scale solos inspired by the '80s.

The touring helps people see that GnR is a legitimate band that cares to make music with real artistic merit and integrity.

The touring helps people come to RESPECT GnR as true musicians/artists.

Let's face it, old GnR was a band - especially in the GRUNGE ERA - that people either loved or hated. And the hate usually stemmed from people's lack of respect for old GnR's artistic creativity, integrity, and abilities. Hence, why alternative bands like Nirvana bashed them.

It's similar to Nickelback. People either love them or hate them.

But with a band like Nirvana or Pearl Jam, you may not be into their music, but you RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Maybe one day GnR can be in this same category ... where if you don't like their music ... you still RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Let's hope so. This is why the CD touring helps.

[Rustycage]

LOL

[magisme]

LOL

[username]

The constant touring and complete lack of real progress (new music) only solidifies them as a glorified touring band. I want to see these guys create music, not cover it for years.

[WhazUp]

The constant touring and complete lack of real progress (new music) only solidifies them as a glorified touring band. I want to see these guys create music, not cover it for years.

Agreed

[Flayer]

I think people who actually go to the shows have generally come away happy and impressed. You could say they've been won over.

But people who just watch a Youtube video or two, or follow the casual news about the band, probably not.

[Rustycage]

Everything can sound OK when it's loud and masking the horrible vocal performance.

[classicrawker]

To me, people expecting Axl to release new music are ALMOST as stupid as people expecting a reunion. We will either get leaks or nothing. Not while Axl still has a pulse at least.

Aren't you and I betting on the sales output of the next record? Why yes we are. You agreed to that bet... so to me anyway, that means somewhere deep down, on some level, in your heart of hearts, you believe there will be another album eventually. =b

You just keep that hundred ready for when I win the bet.

Really your betting? how many units do you think the next nuGuns album will sell? and if it is more than million I want in on the bet becasue I don't think it breaks a million this time..........Since sales are a cummulative thing I think a better bet is how many units will it sell the first week as that will usually give you an idea how successful and album will be.........

Yes we are betting. C'mon classicrawker, you even posted in the thread, lol: Do you think that Guns n Roses' next album will sell 1,000,000 units or more in three months or less?

Bobbo and I hashed out the details back in early September 2012. 100 bucks for me if the album breaks a million in 3 months or less. 100 bucks for him if it doesn't.

Hell mate that was back in September....you can't really expect me to remember every thread I post in never mind on that is almost 5 month old...........

But as I stated in that thread I think you lose that bet if the time limit is only 3 months........especially if the music is like ChiDem and there is no single to get people interested.........Still think you should have bet first week sales figures as that is when I think most copies will be sold and then it will drop like a rock........

[Apollo]

The right word to use is not LEGITIMAZE.

The right word is: RE-BRANDING

Let's be real, the GnR brand took a huge hit and went on a huge decline post-1991, especially in the USA. The '80s rock sound and culture became uncool. People jumped off the '80s GnR band wagon, as many people switched their allegiance to alternative rock bands. GnR had no more RELEVANCY in pop culture and music. Record sales declined dramatically. People had no more appetitite for Joe-Perry inspired riffs and solos. The '80s GnR brand of rock music was done.

We all remember Axl's famous rant about alternative bands and "Kurt Cobain" because they were the folks who lead the GnR bashing and thought they were too cool for GnR.

Slash's media whoring and Carlos Santana impersonations did not help GnR's image as well as it made GnR seem like a joke pop rock band.

Just like Metallica and U2, GnR needs a make-over so to speak ... a RE-BRANDING to fit the times ... to help folks de-associate GnR from Slash's media whoring and to escape the negative stigmatization caused by the alternative rock era ...

A RE-BRANDING to regain RELEVANCY again.

Imagine if GnR never released CD and just did a reunion tour. All it would have done is further tarnish GnR's legacy as just another Motley Crue band looking to make money on a nostagia tour.

So the CD touring helps people see that this band is no longer that '80s sleazy, leather-pants wearing, and big hair band (as @RustyCage called it: the "biker look") that people imagine when they think of GnR.

The touring helps people hear the new music and see that the band actually has real musical artistic abilities beyond using the same chords, riffs, style, and blues scale solos inspired by the '80s.

The touring helps people see that GnR is a legitimate band that cares to make music with real artistic merit and integrity.

The touring helps people come to RESPECT GnR as true musicians/artists.

Let's face it, old GnR was a band - especially in the GRUNGE ERA - that people either loved or hated. And the hate usually stemmed from people's lack of respect for old GnR's artistic creativity, integrity, and abilities. Hence, why alternative bands like Nirvana bashed them.

It's similar to Nickelback. People either love them or hate them.

But with a band like Nirvana or Pearl Jam, you may not be into their music, but you RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Maybe one day GnR can be in this same category ... where if you don't like their music ... you still RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Let's hope so. This is why the CD touring helps.

Funny to see people who didn't live through a time period try and educate people that actually lived and experienced the subject matter.

Sorry kid, but you have only got about 10% of your facts straight. I suggest talking to more people who experienced GnR and rock music during the 80s and 90s, and expanding your research library. Because the majority of what you just posted is wrong.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Groghan

[jimb0]

The right word to use is not LEGITIMAZE.

The right word is: RE-BRANDING

Let's be real, the GnR brand took a huge hit and went on a huge decline post-1991, especially in the USA. The '80s rock sound and culture became uncool. People jumped off the '80s GnR band wagon, as many people switched their allegiance to alternative rock bands. GnR had no more RELEVANCY in pop culture and music. Record sales declined dramatically. People had no more appetitite for Joe-Perry inspired riffs and solos. The '80s GnR brand of rock music was done.

We all remember Axl's famous rant about alternative bands and "Kurt Cobain" because they were the folks who lead the GnR bashing and thought they were too cool for GnR.

Slash's media whoring and Carlos Santana impersonations did not help GnR's image as well as it made GnR seem like a joke pop rock band.

Just like Metallica and U2, GnR needs a make-over so to speak ... a RE-BRANDING to fit the times ... to help folks de-associate GnR from Slash's media whoring and to escape the negative stigmatization caused by the alternative rock era ...

A RE-BRANDING to regain RELEVANCY again.

Imagine if GnR never released CD and just did a reunion tour. All it would have done is further tarnish GnR's legacy as just another Motley Crue band looking to make money on a nostagia tour.

So the CD touring helps people see that this band is no longer that '80s sleazy, leather-pants wearing, and big hair band (as @RustyCage called it: the "biker look") that people imagine when they think of GnR.

The touring helps people hear the new music and see that the band actually has real musical artistic abilities beyond using the same chords, riffs, style, and blues scale solos inspired by the '80s.

The touring helps people see that GnR is a legitimate band that cares to make music with real artistic merit and integrity.

The touring helps people come to RESPECT GnR as true musicians/artists.

Let's face it, old GnR was a band - especially in the GRUNGE ERA - that people either loved or hated. And the hate usually stemmed from people's lack of respect for old GnR's artistic creativity, integrity, and abilities. Hence, why alternative bands like Nirvana bashed them.

It's similar to Nickelback. People either love them or hate them.

But with a band like Nirvana or Pearl Jam, you may not be into their music, but you RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Maybe one day GnR can be in this same category ... where if you don't like their music ... you still RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Let's hope so. This is why the CD touring helps.

Wow... What world are you living in?

Please never compare GNR to Nickelback.

[Black Roses]

Whatever you guys want to say, gnrfart2007 will try to rewrite the history like he's a rock fan who actually live in 80s, 90s, then no one wants to talk to him, he thinks he wins. Ask rustycage, he knows the best about that situation.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Black Roses

[username]

The right word to use is not LEGITIMAZE.

The right word is: RE-BRANDING

Let's be real, the GnR brand took a huge hit and went on a huge decline post-1991, especially in the USA. The '80s rock sound and culture became uncool. People jumped off the '80s GnR band wagon, as many people switched their allegiance to alternative rock bands. GnR had no more RELEVANCY in pop culture and music. Record sales declined dramatically. People had no more appetitite for Joe-Perry inspired riffs and solos. The '80s GnR brand of rock music was done.

We all remember Axl's famous rant about alternative bands and "Kurt Cobain" because they were the folks who lead the GnR bashing and thought they were too cool for GnR.

Slash's media whoring and Carlos Santana impersonations did not help GnR's image as well as it made GnR seem like a joke pop rock band.

Just like Metallica and U2, GnR needs a make-over so to speak ... a RE-BRANDING to fit the times ... to help folks de-associate GnR from Slash's media whoring and to escape the negative stigmatization caused by the alternative rock era ...

A RE-BRANDING to regain RELEVANCY again.

Imagine if GnR never released CD and just did a reunion tour. All it would have done is further tarnish GnR's legacy as just another Motley Crue band looking to make money on a nostagia tour.

So the CD touring helps people see that this band is no longer that '80s sleazy, leather-pants wearing, and big hair band (as @RustyCage called it: the "biker look") that people imagine when they think of GnR.

The touring helps people hear the new music and see that the band actually has real musical artistic abilities beyond using the same chords, riffs, style, and blues scale solos inspired by the '80s.

The touring helps people see that GnR is a legitimate band that cares to make music with real artistic merit and integrity.

The touring helps people come to RESPECT GnR as true musicians/artists.

Let's face it, old GnR was a band - especially in the GRUNGE ERA - that people either loved or hated. And the hate usually stemmed from people's lack of respect for old GnR's artistic creativity, integrity, and abilities. Hence, why alternative bands like Nirvana bashed them.

It's similar to Nickelback. People either love them or hate them.

But with a band like Nirvana or Pearl Jam, you may not be into their music, but you RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Maybe one day GnR can be in this same category ... where if you don't like their music ... you still RESPECTED them or atleast didn't hate them.

Let's hope so. This is why the CD touring helps.

You are talking some sense. But CD touring doesn't help anymore. CD is a collection of songs that were created somewhere between 20 and 5 years ago mostly by people who are not in Guns n' Roses anymore.

In order to achieve any of this (credibility, respect) they need to actually stop covering old GnR, stop covering the CD songs half of them barely helped to create, and actually CREATE music like a normal respectable band.