Great concepts, tainted by the notion of a trilogy

[Guest NGOG]

Why is it so seemingly difficult to create a solid trilogy? It always seems to taint my favourite movie concepts slightly when a director tries to pull off 'the trilogy':

Nolan's Batman was harmed by its finale The Dark Knight Rises. I expected more basically.

The third Godfather was a terrible end to a great franchise.

The original Star Wars trilogy could have been remembered more fondly if it weren't for Return of the Jedi.

I refuse to acknowledge any of the Terminators beyond part three, so with that in mind, why didn't three achieve the heights of its predecessors?

Spider-Man was solid and Spider-Man 2 was excellent -- ultimately they were ruined by a poor end to the trilogy in the form of Spider-Man 3.

What are some of your favourite trilogies that were blighted by one bad apple?

[Dazey]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

[ManetsBR]

Nolan's mistake was using the two main Batman's vilain in the second movie, rather than in the finale.

[Cosmo]

I completely disagree with The Dark Night Rises but...

- Transformers 3 was pretty bad

- Iron Man 3 wasn't as good as the other two, IMO

- Shrek was murdered right after Shrek 2

- The Hangover was fucked by it's two sequels

- Everybody hates Matrix Revolutions

[ManetsBR]

X-Men 3 kind of sucked too, specially if compared to X2, which was incredible.

[Guest NGOG]

Nolan's mistake was using the two main Batman's vilain in the second movie, rather than in the finale.

I think he had to play The Joker card otherwise the audience would have switched off. Batman Begins wasn't that entertaining as far as thrills were concerned, so the Joker had to wreak havoc in The Dark Knight.

The problem with the trilogy is the finale itself. I'm not saying it was bad, but with what he'd achieved already, you expected it to be much better. It lost the realism which made the first two films so appealing.

- Iron Man 3 wasn't as good as the other two, IMO

True.

The Rocky story could have made for a good trilogy even though the second film was poor. At the very least Sly should have stopped after the fourth with Drago.

Edited July 31, 2013 by NGOG

[AxlisOld]

Rocky IV is my favorite one. And I feel like Stallone made up for Rocky V pretty well with Rocky Balboa. God Rocky V was horrible.

[ManetsBR]

The issue with the Batman trilogy was regarding the vilains. He should have let Joker and Two-Face for the third film, I'm pretty sure he could have found a way of making a good second film without them, that would help build the hype for the third one. The Nolan brothers are script genius, they could have made. But that's ok, he insisted in using the two greatest vilains in the second film... Then, in the third one he used Bane? Bane sucks. Always sucked. I know he broke Batman's back on the comics and all, but honestly I'm far more interested in clever dialogues and psychological thriller like he had with the Joker rather than brutal fights.

There were dozens of better vilains he could have used for the finale, like Riddler, Hush and Zsasz. The Hush Saga is, in my opinion, one of the best Batman stories, by far.

Edited July 31, 2013 by ManetsBR

[Guest NGOG]

Rocky IV is my favorite one. And I feel like Stallone made up for Rocky V pretty well with Rocky Balboa. God Rocky V was horrible.

It's killer. But I was just saying hypthetically he could have had a good trilogy. The fifth Rocky was absolutely pants.

He should have let Joker and Two-Face for the third film, I'm pretty sure he could have found a way of making a good second film without them, that would help build the hype for the third one.

But you're missing one very important point, the death of Heath Ledger. Given the reaction to The Dark Knight, it was likely a given that Ledger would reprise his role as The Joker in the finale. Nolan probably had to adapt his writing around the unexpected death of Heath Ledger. The Joker is a recurring thorn in the side of Batman's fight against crime, had Nolan been able to use that character in the finale of his trilogy, he would have.

[ManetsBR]

If Ledger hadn't played Joker back then, he would probably be still alive.

[Guest NGOG]

If Ledger hadn't played Joker back then, he would probably be still alive.

It definitely seemed to compound whatever personal issues he was experiencing.

[batman007]

The issue with the Batman trilogy was regarding the vilains. He should have let Joker and Two-Face for the third film, I'm pretty sure he could have found a way of making a good second film without them, that would help build the hype for the third one. The Nolan brothers are script genius, they could have made. But that's ok, he insisted in using the two greatest vilains in the second film... Then, in the third one he used Bane? Bane sucks. Always sucked. I know he broke Batman's back on the comics and all, but honestly I'm far more interested in clever dialogues and psychological thriller like he had with the Joker rather than brutal fights.

There were dozens of better vilains he could have used for the finale, like Hush and Zsasz. The Hush Saga is, in my opinion, the best Batman story, by far.

I have to disagree. I think the movies were great in the order it was. Hush and Zsasz are not known to the public who don't read the comics. The way they wrote the first one makes sense for what happened in the last film.

[volcano62]

If Ledger hadn't played Joker back then, he would probably be still alive.

It definitely seemed to compound whatever personal issues he was experiencing.

Jack Nicholson warned him about the role

[magisme]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

[Guest NGOG]

Jack Nicholson warned him about the role

Did he not say that jokingly? He was clearly very annoyed that Nolan didn't want him to reprise the role.

I like Jack as much as everybody else but his Joker, while entertaining, was totally wrong.

[ZoSoRose]

Why is it so seemingly difficult to create a solid trilogy? It always seems to taint my favourite movie concepts slightly when a director tries to pull off 'the trilogy':

Nolan's Batman was harmed by its finale The Dark Knight Rises. I expected more basically.

The third Godfather was a terrible end to a great franchise.

The original Star Wars trilogy could have been remembered more fondly if it weren't for Return of the Jedi.

I refuse to acknowledge any of the Terminators beyond part three, so with that in mind, why didn't three achieve the heights of its predecessors?

Spider-Man was solid and Spider-Man 2 was excellent -- ultimately they were ruined by a poor end to the trilogy in the form of Spider-Man 3.

What are some of your favourite trilogies that were blighted by one bad apple?

Man, I absolutely loved Return of the Jedi and The Dark Knight Rises. Both were excellent finales IMO

The prequels (Phantom Menace and Clones) were the biggest let downs in cinema history too, I know they are technically not sequels but you get the idea. I really liked Revenge of the Sith though

Godfather III was disappointing but still doesn't hurt the overall franchise

Spiderman 3 was HORRIBLE and the Matrix sequels are very disappointing.

I also think X Men- The Last Stand was terrible and very disappointing (same goes for origins) but it has been slightly redeemed because I think First Class and The Wolverine are excellent, Days of Future Past is shaping up to rock too

Edited July 31, 2013 by ZoSoRose

[Amir]

X-Men 3 was shite. But I love Dark Knight Rises and I really admire the Matrix sequels for their thematic ambition, they're just let down by overlong overCGIey fight scenes and a load of crappily-acted poorly-written side characters no one gives a shit about. I've still watched them loads of times. I reckon with a bit of script editing they could have been one great film, surpassing the original, as opposed to two bloated films. I love the last half hour or so of Revolutions, all the stuff with the Blind Messiah and Neo vs Smith etc. Also, really like the music (especially the track Neodammerung).

I enjoy bits of Attack of the Clones: the alien planets like Kamino are cool, and I like some of the Obi-Wan detective scenes. Hayden Christensen is crap but 18-year-old Natalie Portman is well fit. Also, John Williams (that Across The Stars theme conveys Lucas' intentions better than his directing or the actors' acting does). Loved Revenge of the Sith when it came out but find it slow and silly on second viewing.

[Dazey]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

The problem with the Matrix was that it was never written with sequels in mind. The huge success of the first movie gave the Wachowski Brothers delusions of grandeur and they cobbled together this whole backstory and cod philosophy (there's that word again ) bollocks that really did nothing to enhance the original and build on the story that went before.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Dazey

[magisme]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

The problem with the Matrix was that it was never written with sequels in mind. The huge success of the first movie gave the Wachowski Brothers delusions of grandeur and they cobbled together this whole backstory and cod philosophy (there's that word again ) bollocks that really did nothing to enhance the original and build on the story that went before.

This is an instance when I have no problem with you saying "cod philosophy bollocks." I quite agree.

He is risen!

[Amir]

I liked how it wasn't just good vs evil any more, and Neo/The One was revealed to be part of the System/Matrix, how deals were made with machines, etc. Shades of grey and all that. Just a shame it was let down by too much plot/crap dialogue etc.

[GivenToFly]

The problem with the Matrix was that it was never written with sequels in mind.

The Matrix ended with a sequel hook: "I'm gonna show them a world without you". It could've ended there and then easily if circumstances had forced it to, but at the same time they definitely left it open for continuation.

[izzygirl]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

I gotta agree with this. Despite not having a clue what's going on in there I gotta admit it was good.

The Dollars trilogy is amazing.

[Amir]

The problem with the Matrix was that it was never written with sequels in mind.

The Matrix ended with a sequel hook: "I'm gonna show them a world without you". It could've ended there and then easily if circumstances had forced it to, but at the same time they definitely left it open for continuation.

The thing that confuses me about that is... Neo flies. There is a dude flying in the sky. Pretty sure people would notice. Neo could just fly around and go "Hey, look at me, know why I'm flying? Because we're all living in a simulation!"

I suppose the answer to that may be that it would cause mass confusion and people would go into shock or something (like the bit where they say those who are too old when they are unplugged can't deal with the real world).

[GivenToFly]

The problem with the Matrix was that it was never written with sequels in mind.

The Matrix ended with a sequel hook: "I'm gonna show them a world without you". It could've ended there and then easily if circumstances had forced it to, but at the same time they definitely left it open for continuation.

The thing that confuses me about that is... Neo flies. There is a dude flying in the sky. Pretty sure people would notice. Neo could just fly around and go "Hey, look at me, know why I'm flying? Because we're all living in a simulation!"

I suppose the answer to that may be that it would cause mass confusion and people would go into shock or something (like the bit where they say those who are too old when they are unplugged can't deal with the real world).

The machines could suppress information I suppose so a way to defeat the machines would have to have been found before attempting a mass liberation of humans.

[Georgy Zhukov]

The Matrix was amazing. The sequels were shite.

I gotta agree with this. Despite not having a clue what's going on in there I gotta admit it was good.

The Dollars trilogy is amazing.

I loved The Matrix but they should have left it the way it was

The Dollars Trilogy worked because they weren't really sequels. I also enjoyed Leone's second trilogy the "Once Upon a Time..." trilogy.

Also, Heath Ledger took method acting way too far. Similar to what Brando did with Last Tango in Paris. They both went to that dark dark DARK corner of their minds and Brando was lucky, unlike Ledger.