Gene Simmons says Ace and Peter will not perform with them at the Rock Hall Of Fame

[Zint]

Peter and Ace were original four.

They created their characters, make up and costumes.

Fake Kiss pretending they are original four in makeup is disgusting.

ALIVE is the album that broke the doors down, Destroyer sent them in to the stratosphere.

Acknowledge that era and those achievements or acknowledge nothing.

Today's fake-Kiss-original-make-up era would be nowhere without it.

[DieselDaisy]

I agree with you in sentiment - I am fairly old-school also - but it has to be ackowledged that the Carr-Kulick line-up was the only successful line-up in Europe. Kiss' classic '70s era simply did not resonate in places like Great Britain, Germany and France. Europe only began to like the band when they lacked Ace and Peter, had ditched the war-paint and were producing cheesy pop-rock. 'Love Gun' and 'Strutter' were not 'classic Kiss songs' for Europeans: 'Crazy Nights' and 'Heavens on Fire' were.

Edited November 1, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[Zint]

I agree with you in sentiment - I am fairly old-school also - but it has to be ackowledged that the Carr-Kulick line-up was the only successful line-up in Europe. Kiss' classic '70s era simply did not resonate in places like Great Britain, Germany and France. Europe only began to like the band when they lacked Ace and Peter, had ditched the war-paint and were producing cheesy pop-rock. 'Love Gun' and 'Strutter' were not 'classic Kiss songs' for Europeans: 'Crazy Nights' and 'Heavens on Fire' were.

If the original make up era stuff hadn't initially taken off, there would have been no cheesy pop era for Europe to fall in love with. They were that close to folding.

That being said, I agree that the Carr-Kulick era was a legitimate chapter in the band's history.

However, dumping two guys in classic era make up and costumes that are the trademarks of original members known by millions of early fans who fell in the love with the band based on the original four members and carrying on under the guise of that said era is a cheap tactic and disgusting. To put fake Ace Frehley and fake Peter Criss on stage at that pending ceremony is utterly reprehensible.

[Cosmo]

If only Creatures had been a hit...I still think Lick It Up is mostly a great album too.

creatures SHOULD have been a hit. Amazing album. Lick it Up has 3 great songs surrounded by a sea of fillers, like most of their 80's stuff.

[classicguns4life]

If only Creatures had been a hit...I still think Lick It Up is mostly a great album too.

creatures SHOULD have been a hit. Amazing album. Lick it Up has 3 great songs surrounded by a sea of fillers, like most of their 80's stuff.

I've heard Creatures, and aside from one or two songs, its total crap. The whole album is very forgettable. I'm surprised to see so many people saying how amazing it is. No one knows anything from that album. And I Love It Loud is one of my least favorite KISS songs. They'd already gotten bad by that point.

[Cosmo]

If only Creatures had been a hit...I still think Lick It Up is mostly a great album too.

creatures SHOULD have been a hit. Amazing album. Lick it Up has 3 great songs surrounded by a sea of fillers, like most of their 80's stuff.

I've heard Creatures, and aside from one or two songs, its total crap. The whole album is very forgettable. I'm surprised to see so many people saying how amazing it is. No one knows anything from that album. And I Love It Loud is one of my least favorite KISS songs. They'd already gotten bad by that point.

Well, I conpletely disagree with you on that one. Killer, I Still Love You, I Love It Loud, War Machine... Amazing songs. There probably one or two crappy songs but the ones that aren't really good are still pretty cool. It's a solid album. Better than everything after it up until Sonic Boom, IMO.

[classicguns4life]

If only Creatures had been a hit...I still think Lick It Up is mostly a great album too.

creatures SHOULD have been a hit. Amazing album. Lick it Up has 3 great songs surrounded by a sea of fillers, like most of their 80's stuff.

I've heard Creatures, and aside from one or two songs, its total crap. The whole album is very forgettable. I'm surprised to see so many people saying how amazing it is. No one knows anything from that album. And I Love It Loud is one of my least favorite KISS songs. They'd already gotten bad by that point.

Well, I conpletely disagree with you on that one. Killer, I Still Love You, I Love It Loud, War Machine... Amazing songs. There probably one or two crappy songs but the ones that aren't really good are still pretty cool. It's a solid album. Better than everything after it up until Sonic Boom, IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Their only studio album I like after Ace left and up to Sonic Boom is Revenge. That was far and way their best album, and even half of that was really crappy.

[DieselDaisy]

I love Creatures of the Night. Yes I Love It Loud is a bit braindead but the rest of the album is excellent and has no filler. The drum sound is crazy on that album and Stanley, for some reason, puts in the performance of his life vocally. By far the best post-Dynasty Kiss album. I actually probably like it more than Destroyer.

[classicguns4life]

I love Creatures of the Night. Yes I Love It Loud is a bit braindead but the rest of the album is excellent and has no filler. The drum sound is crazy on that album and Stanley, for some reason, puts in the performance of his life vocally. By far the best post-Dynasty Kiss album. I actually probably like it more than Destroyer.

I honestly heard it earlier this year but maybe I'll have to hear it again. I could do a track by track analysis although I really remember a lot of the album being forgettable.

[machinegunner]

I agree with you in sentiment - I am fairly old-school also - but it has to be ackowledged that the Carr-Kulick line-up was the only successful line-up in Europe. Kiss' classic '70s era simply did not resonate in places like Great Britain, Germany and France. Europe only began to like the band when they lacked Ace and Peter, had ditched the war-paint and were producing cheesy pop-rock. 'Love Gun' and 'Strutter' were not 'classic Kiss songs' for Europeans: 'Crazy Nights' and 'Heavens on Fire' were.

If the original make up era stuff hadn't initially taken off, there would have been no cheesy pop era for Europe to fall in love with. They were that close to folding.

That being said, I agree that the Carr-Kulick era was a legitimate chapter in the band's history.

However, dumping two guys in classic era make up and costumes that are the trademarks of original members known by millions of early fans who fell in the love with the band based on the original four members and carrying on under the guise of that said era is a cheap tactic and disgusting. To put fake Ace Frehley and fake Peter Criss on stage at that pending ceremony is utterly reprehensible.

Except that Ace and Peter agreed to the reunion after they had agreed to sell off the classic era spaceman and cat make-up and costumes to KISS... they knew that if they quit or were fired KISS might well continue on without them with the make-up, as they did with Eric Carr and Vinnie Vincent.

Got sucked into seeing them partly because it was their "farewell tour", in 2001, and it was Paul, Gene, Ace and Eric Singer. Paul and Gene gave it their all and Ace could hardly stand up through the show, kept slouching and not facing the audience and played sloppy...

What is KISS supposed to do when they have unruly and unreliable unproffessional backstabbing guys in their band, disband? Of course not! I read Gene Simmons' autobiography Kiss and Make-Up and it relates stories of Ace and his mate getting drunk and dressing up in Nazi uniforms and saluting gene to his face and saying "Heil Hitler!"... he's got photos. Anyway he told him to fuck off and that he was a loser. And he also saved Ace's life once. So i think Gene's attitude to Frehley and Chriss is: "Fuck off".

I don't think Gene or Paul care about the HOF or about ever playing with Ace or Peter again, although they could be gladly bought to do so there saying it's "for the fans"... They will likely make a speech about "honouring all present and past members' contribution to KISS,

blah blah...". I think KISS won't be able to resist having the current KISS playing in makeup to try to add further legitimacy to that.

[DR DOOM]

If only Creatures had been a hit...I still think Lick It Up is mostly a great album too.

creatures SHOULD have been a hit. Amazing album. Lick it Up has 3 great songs surrounded by a sea of fillers, like most of their 80's stuff.

I've heard Creatures, and aside from one or two songs, its total crap. The whole album is very forgettable. I'm surprised to see so many people saying how amazing it is. No one knows anything from that album. And I Love It Loud is one of my least favorite KISS songs. They'd already gotten bad by that point.

Well, I conpletely disagree with you on that one. Killer, I Still Love You, I Love It Loud, War Machine... Amazing songs. There probably one or two crappy songs but the ones that aren't really good are still pretty cool. It's a solid album. Better than everything after it up until Sonic Boom, IMO.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Their only studio album I like after Ace left and up to Sonic Boom is Revenge. That was far and way their best album, and even half of that was really crappy.

Saint and Sinner and Rock and Roll Hell are great songs too (Creatures)...Jim Vallance and Bryan Adams cowrote RNR Hell and Warmachine!

[machinegunner]

I Still Love You could have been a huge hit if it wasn't so long and overwrought. Same with Thills In The Night from Animalize and Tears Are Falling from Asylum (not to mention its crappy video...), they were overproduced and repetitive and lacked punch. Lick It Up was regarded a successful comeback at the time - not sure i agree with Vinnie Vincent's assertion that he "saved KISS", but KISS were back! It was a solid album where they seemed to get their mojo back... Fits Like A Glove, Young and Wasted, And On The 8th Day, Not For The Innocent, Lick It Up... i'd say superior to Creatures.

[Zint]

I agree with you in sentiment - I am fairly old-school also - but it has to be ackowledged that the Carr-Kulick line-up was the only successful line-up in Europe. Kiss' classic '70s era simply did not resonate in places like Great Britain, Germany and France. Europe only began to like the band when they lacked Ace and Peter, had ditched the war-paint and were producing cheesy pop-rock. 'Love Gun' and 'Strutter' were not 'classic Kiss songs' for Europeans: 'Crazy Nights' and 'Heavens on Fire' were.

If the original make up era stuff hadn't initially taken off, there would have been no cheesy pop era for Europe to fall in love with. They were that close to folding.

That being said, I agree that the Carr-Kulick era was a legitimate chapter in the band's history.

However, dumping two guys in classic era make up and costumes that are the trademarks of original members known by millions of early fans who fell in the love with the band based on the original four members and carrying on under the guise of that said era is a cheap tactic and disgusting. To put fake Ace Frehley and fake Peter Criss on stage at that pending ceremony is utterly reprehensible.

Except that Ace and Peter agreed to the reunion after they had agreed to sell off the classic era spaceman and cat make-up and costumes to KISS... they knew that if they quit or were fired KISS might well continue on without them with the make-up, as they did with Eric Carr and Vinnie Vincent.

Got sucked into seeing them partly because it was their "farewell tour", in 2001, and it was Paul, Gene, Ace and Eric Singer. Paul and Gene gave it their all and Ace could hardly stand up through the show, kept slouching and not facing the audience and played sloppy...

What is KISS supposed to do when they have unruly and unreliable unproffessional backstabbing guys in their band, disband? Of course not! I read Gene Simmons' autobiography Kiss and Make-Up and it relates stories of Ace and his mate getting drunk and dressing up in Nazi uniforms and saluting gene to his face and saying "Heil Hitler!"... he's got photos. Anyway he told him to fuck off and that he was a loser. And he also saved Ace's life once. So i think Gene's attitude to Frehley and Chriss is: "Fuck off".

I don't think Gene or Paul care about the HOF or about ever playing with Ace or Peter again, although they could be gladly bought to do so there saying it's "for the fans"... They will likely make a speech about "honouring all present and past members' contribution to KISS,

blah blah...". I think KISS won't be able to resist having the current KISS playing in makeup to try to add further legitimacy to that.

They all have stories about each other.

Regardless of character ownership, they should have original fan loyalty at heart, the people who put them on top.

Eric Carr and Vinnie Vincent were given their own make up and costumes...it was an attempt to move forward. They weren't imposters trying to recapture the imagery of the early years because the cash value of doing so in a heavy influenced nostalgia era was (is) driving the decisions.

If they legitimately wanted to continue in the make up era, give any new guys new make up and costumes..let the history and legacy stand for those who it means something to.

Dressing the Easter Bunny up as Santa Claus doesn't make him so.

[DieselDaisy]

I also would have preferred it if Singer and Thayer possessed new characters/make-up. I support Kiss' right to continue, as Sonic Boom was a decent record and they still put on an incredible show, but I do not support those two, Eric and Tommy, playing in Ace and Peter's make-up. I am never going to agree with that one I am afraid.

[classicguns4life]

My "Creatures Of The Night" album analysis. Maybe its just not my kind of record, and I could accept that. Was just surprised so many liked it. Here were my thoughts:

-Creatures Of The Night (2.5 or 3 out of 5) - Not a bad song, but just always been something I never LOVED about it. I will give it credit, I think its much better on Alive 3. Seems a bit more dangerous there, whereas it has a bit of disco/danceish feel on the record with the "chuga chuga" guitar riff. Also, I don't know who thought the high harmony vocals on the chorus were necessary that was a main detractor of the song for me. Nevertheless, it is the most straight ahead rock song on the album and I guess by default my second favorite from the album. Personally I don't think the vocals are anything special here.

-Saint And Sinner (1 out of 5) - A forgettable KISS track, which is the opposite of their earlier material. Even those deep cuts were still REALLY good. This is at the point where really the singles were the best stuff on their albums. This track has no life whatsoever to me. Its Gene lyrics which can be compared to literally any song he ever wrote. They were always the same. But the music would set them apart. But the music sounds so bland and tame here. Doesn't enhance the music. I do like the solo, but its not outstanding. He has some great solos, and he has great tone here, but its not really something to single out. Its just good in an otherwise mediocre song. The production on the album is very good, but I've always thought it was the songs that were lacking. Also, for a Gene song, its almost too insanely generic.

-Keep Me Comin' (2.5 out of 5) - Solid riff and solid song all around. As usual, its really the chorus I don't like that much here. Seems like every chorus seems to go (for lack of a better word) "gay" and doesn't have that dangerousness I enjoyed about KISS. The song isn't bad, although again its still relatively forgettable. I'm really not trying to demean the album. This is probably the 4th time I've tried to give it a chance in recent memory and there's always just something that doesn't click. Aside from the chorus, I would say this is neck and neck with Creatures as good rock track. Its just something about these songs that don't feel like they have the power early KISS did. And those songs mean nothing! But they were still really memorable for some reason.

-Rock And Roll Hell (1.5 out of 5) - There is just a time when the 80s-ness of the production creeps in. This is either the first song where that happens, or the one where it becomes noticeable on the record. The lyrics are just so uninspired and so cheesy (in a way that early KISS wasn't) and the album just seems to go nowhere. The songs build up to these choruses, which all suck. They can't really stand on their own. This is indistinguishable from any 80s rockish song when KISS used to have their own sound. I do think the revolving lineup of guitarists on this album certainly didn't help. Good screams from Gene I guess, but these are songs that I never really need to ever hear again (please, I promise I am not just trying to trash the album. I am giving it a serious listen. These are just the concerns that make me feel less of the album every time I hear it).

-Danger (2 or 2.5 out of 5) - I do like and notice at this point that every song alternates between a Paul and Gene song. Gives it some variety. The Paul songs are clearly the stand outs (which is sad because Gene songs used to be GREAT). Again though, such a good song until the chorus. Well "such a good" song is a bit of an overstatement, but I'm into it for awhile. Good powering riff throughout and cool, if uninspiring soloing happening throughout. But the chorus just sucks! I don't know who chose to have those high pitched harmony vocals on this album for every chorus. Makes it so 80s and sissy IMO. The song is fine, but even with a good chorus it sounds pretty forgettable. A little like a Love Gun rip off. Again, not meaning to be cruel, but nothing jumps out at me which all other KISS album songs used to. Otherwise a decent song. I guess the Paul songs were the saving grace. By this point in the album, I can see what you mean about his good vocals. He does sound really good here.

-I Love It Loud (1.5 out of 5) - And now we come to the pinnacle of horribleness on this album. This was definitely the song I heard and thought "yup, thats it. I'm done with KISS." IMO of course, such a horrible horrible song. Yet it was the biggest single from the album. Just such a cheesy anthem song that I don't even want to sing. Its not even like Rock And Roll All Night or We Are The Champions because its just plain not good. Its never grown on me over the years and I still don't really get the appeal (I mean I guess I do, but it doesn't rile me up like it does for other people. I'd be fine never having heard it again. Also, having the luxury of hearing the album version, I forgot about the god awful fade BACK IN to the song towards the ending. Horrible and hysterical judgement KISS. Sorry, I have just always thought this song sucks.

-I Still Love You (4.5 out of 5) - How hilarious that they follow up the worst song on the album with the best song on the record. THE SOLE SAVING GRACE OF THE RECORD! This is where I have to give them credit. This song was kick ass, and it was a song I don't believe original KISS could have done. I think a whole album of these types of songs would have tanked and gotten boring after awhile, but this was such a welcoming step. I don't know if I'd say this is worst than the live versions. They are all kind of the same with just basically all equally being awesome. This is without a doubt in the top 3 of great songs they wrote since the classic era. Its nearly the sole reason I would listen to the album again, knowing this song was coming up. Granted, I'm sure I'm more praiseworthy to it than deserved, but on an a rather forgettable album this song soars. Always a good listen and an excellent Paul performance.

-Killer (2 out of 5) - Decent riff, although you can hear from the beginning, its not powerful enough to really be classic and not exactly wimpy either. For what its worth, I think this is the best Gene song, although thats not saying much. Its pretty good with better lyrical delivery than the others, as usual up until the chorus. Disappointing chorus that they then continue and make more prominent as the song goes on. Just not a song I really can get into, although I'll say its the best instrumentally and lyrically of the Gene songs on this album.

-War Machine (2 out of 5) - As I would expect this album to end. Back to generic Gene stuff, and again very 80s sound to this one. Eric is a great drummer but he's really nothing special at all on this record. I like the production of this album, and I would love to hear them make an album that sounds like this again, but with much better songs. The production still has that hard rock sound, its just that the songs sound a bit too 80s. Clearer and much less compressed than nowadays stuff. But back to the song, nothing of interest to me here. Thumping beat up until the chorus that again tries to be this sort of thing people would want to shout out a concert and doesn't work here. The saving grace of this song is the guitar work. It doesn't have the flair of Ace but this song is maybe the closest you get on this record. I guess its possible all of these songs sound better live, but this album was the one I heard and thought that the old KISS had really lost its steam. They were out of juice. And look at that, it was exactly at this time that they went in a totally different direction and lost the makeup. I can see how this album still has the remnants of old KISS, but these sound like unnecessary outtakes that they had to get out before this made a total makeover.

They had maybe 3, at most 4 decent songs on this record. And thats being generous IMO. Definitely an album I would have said "Stay back until you find some more good songs. No reason to release an album thats just littered with such extreme filler." Sure, the album is probably better than Animalize or Asylum, but what does that really say. Again, this was my serious take on the record. I'd be interested to hear what those that like the album say now that it is fresh in my mind. Its hard for me to put a positive spin on most of these songs so I'd be anxious to hear other's thoughts. This might just be something we need to agree to disagree on.

[DieselDaisy]

Strange, I have never met a Kiss fan who does not like Creatures of the Night (until now). That album is actually considered a real 'fan favourite' (i.e. an album that did not do well commercially but is highly considered by a fanbase). I would actually say it is one of the few Kiss albums which has no filler. Destroyer has 'Sweet Pain' and 'Beth' (ironically a hit but considered 'filler' initially); Kiss has 'Love Theme'; Love Gun has 'Then She Kissed Me but Kiss tried their hardest on every single song for Creatures. You mention 'War Machine'; now that song has a riff from hell. It opens up with an incredible winding sort of Metallica-esque riff. And criticism of Carr's drums!! Carr has probably the biggest and meatiest drum sound ever heard in history on that record. The drums are notoriously good here, so much so that everyone comments on 'Carr's Creature's sound'. Also, 'Keep Me Comin', 'Danger' and 'Creatures' are three of my all time favourite Stanley tracks - I repeat, Paul's singing is great on that record. The only thing I agree with about your review is your criticism of 'I Love It Loud' (a song I have never cared for either) and your praise of 'I Still Love You'.

[classicguns4life]

I guess I'm an anomaly (wink wink, get it?).

Don't know what to tell you. I did give it an honest listen and that was what I came away with, about the same I feel each time. I disagree with a few things of what you said. Sweet Pain is an excellent track, and while Beth is Beth, its not actually a bad song. Love Theme is an acquired taste, and is technically filler, but its an early instrumental from their debut album. I give them a pass on that one, and have grown to like it in just a "its part of the album" type way.

As for Creatures, apparently I'm one of the few that doesn't like it. Didn't know it was so highly rated. Glad that others see in it what I can't. You can't say I didn't give my reasons. I do like Eric Carr, and I didn't think he was bad on the album per say, but some tracks I thought his drum production was very generic. I'm not a drummer though so I'm not against being totally wrong on that account.

[bacardimayne]

Peter and Ace were original four.

They created their characters, make up and costumes.

Fake Kiss pretending they are original four in makeup is disgusting.

ALIVE is the album that broke the doors down, Destroyer sent them in to the stratosphere.

Acknowledge that era and those achievements or acknowledge nothing.

Today's fake-Kiss-original-make-up era would be nowhere without it.

Dude, think about it for a second.

It's Kiss.

KISS.

Does it really matter that much?

[Broskirose]

KISS is (was) a great band cardi. I don't know why you put them in the same group as shit like Poison. They made way better hard rock in the 70s than GNR did on AFD.

[dalsh327]

I was kind of surprised Ace and Peter played together again.

I think they'll play together otherwise Gene wouldn't have put the statement out.

In the big picture of rock history, yeah, KISS is important.

[classicguns4life]

I was kind of surprised Ace and Peter played together again.

Why? They are friends, and they've spoken many times in the last decade. I don't exactly know why they haven't played together (maybe the opportunity just never arose?) but of anyone in the band its not like they are known to fight. They are the ones that stick together.

[DR DOOM]

Peter was very vocal about what he felt was Ace's betrayal of him during the reunion, and even did a song attacking Ace over it on his One For All album.

Basically Peter used Ace's manager when they went into the reunion and Ace was getting paid a lot more than Peter was (and Ace in turn got a lot less than Gene and Paul) and they were supposed to be in it together.

[DieselDaisy]

Pete can be a bit bitchy though. On an Eddie Trunk interview he was having a go at Thayer/Singer 'stealing the make-up': ''how dare they copy the character, make-up and stage moves that belong to my friend Ace'. I remember thinking 'you were not saying that when you did the symphonic album, were you?''

[Zint]

Peter and Ace were original four.

They created their characters, make up and costumes.

Fake Kiss pretending they are original four in makeup is disgusting.

ALIVE is the album that broke the doors down, Destroyer sent them in to the stratosphere.

Acknowledge that era and those achievements or acknowledge nothing.

Today's fake-Kiss-original-make-up era would be nowhere without it.

Dude, think about it for a second.

It's Kiss.

KISS.

Does it really matter that much?

It doesn't in the grand scheme of things, no.

This band was a HUGE part of a shitload of people's lives in the mid 70's.

It literally defines a big part of many people's youth, it was (is) very important to them.

It's part of the fabric they look back on in regards to their formative years.

It inspired many musicians and it allowed a certain generation to tap in to their imagination and creativity and also apply that to the music that was the soundtrack of their lives.

It might sound corny all that, but those original four guys were personal jesus's to a lot of North American kids.

Seeing that fucking shlep pretend he's Ace Frehley really grinds on a lot of people the wrong way.

If he plays better than Ace and doesn't stagger on stage, fine, be your own guy and leave the legacy to those it means something to. It's the least they could do for the rabid fans that...what...made them succsseful? Put them on top?

There's a reason current KISS is milking that era.

[DieselDaisy]

From my understanding, in '70s America you were either an 'Aerosmith man' or a 'Kiss man' and the two groups of fans hated each other with a passion. Aerosmith were more blue-collared and grungy. Kiss were obviously more, comic book and commercial. Kiss were probably ‘slightly’ bigger than ‘Smith which in a way helped Aerosmith the more because, for the Toxic Twins and their legions of supporters, it was seen as over-turning a 'great evil' (like the Spice Girls) in fighting Kiss. Interestingly, both bands toured together (this may have been ‘75ish) and they got on well enough - Joe Perry of course would play on Gene's solo album - but their road crews hated each other.

In a way, the Aerosmith-Kiss feud affects the entire generation of American rock artists of the 80s and early 90s. So, Steven Adler was Kiss Army, whereas Slash was Blue Army and they both used to squabble about whose band was the best. I also have an interview with Slash where he said, ''I fuckin hate Kiss''. Guns N' Roses were definitely more an 'Aerosmith' band as both Stradlin and Hudson cite Rocks as one of their favourite all time albums. I have a suspicion that Duff, for although he is a punk rocker, would have leant more towards the blue army also if he was forced to choose. Not sure about Axl who seemed lost in his own world of Queen, Elton and Lynott?

Hetfield I know was 'Aerosmith' and I remember hearing him talk about how he hated Kiss when he was a teen. But then Kiss had their fans also, including just about every '80s Glam band and quite a few of the Bay Area Thrash bands also. Frehley in particular has to be signalled out here. Ace Frehley influenced a whole generation of American rock and metal guitarists. So no Kiss: no Skid Row, VH, Crue, Wasp, Pantera, Marilyn Manson. Probably no Megadeth or Anthrax either. And also no, ehh, Steven Adler of Guns N' Roses.