Gene Simmons says Ace and Peter will not perform with them at the Rock Hall Of Fame

[DieselDaisy]

It is going to great now, the hall of fame. Full on soap opera drama.

[classicguns4life]

This is gonna be much better than GNR. Because they are ALL so unpredictable and they all feel entitled to this award. With GNR, you knew Slash, Duff, Matt, and Steven cared but you also knew from the beginning they were gonna be there. It was fairly obvious Axl was not gonna show up. With KISS, you know they are all gonna be there and I'm looking at another Blondie spat onstage, especially if they don't let Peter and Ace play. Ace and Peter will not sit quietly about that.

[DieselDaisy]

The best thing to be hoped for is a bitch fest as these thinmgs are normally so boring and (ironically) un-rock n' roll: just a lot of people tossing each other off basically.

[Zint]

The problem with Destroyer is twofold, timing and over production.

The album came out after Alive. Alive was the album that finally got things moving for Kiss. People finally had a sound they could relate to and a apply to what this band was about.

The underproduction of the first 3 albums was the problem with those, you couldn't drop any of those in front of your friends and say "listen to THIS".

Alive just nailed that that these guys can fucking rock.

When Alive went through the roof, expectation was high for the next album based on what fans new to the band associated with Alive.

Kick ass straight up rock tunes with a slice of Ace Frehley on the side.

With Destroyer what they got was Bob Ezrin overproduction, choirs, strings, ballads. And the lame attempt to get the band to rewrite Rock and Roll All Nite.

All that has obviously stayed with the album over the years, hence the not as favourable comments about it.

I remember when we first heard Shout It Out Loud, it was on a car radio at an outdoor party. I liked it...I looked around at the other people there, they all said the same thing, it was a lame attempt to rewrite R+R All Nite....that plus they just thought it sucked. Many bailed right there.

Another friend of mine, bought the album, hated it, and after several listens he gave it to me. I didn't even have to go out and buy it.

I t wasn't what was expected after Alive.

Lucky for them though that children thought the album cover looked cool. THAT'S what kicked off the "cartoon" era. Gene smelled fresh kiddie blood and their parent's cash and boom, Kiss was now for 12 year olds.

But yeah, there's some good tunes on there, but it's not the post Alive era album of choice for me...I always thought R+R Over and Love Gun were better.

I lasted with original era KISS until the solo albums and completely lost interest.

I didn't find my way back to KISS until I saw the Hot In The Shade tour, it was a great concert (see the London Ontario video bootleg).

After that I bought the rest of the catalogue and stayed with band through to Tommy Thayer putting Ace's make up on.

I eventually found the first album with Thayer on lead in a $5.00 reduced bin at Walmart. I gave it a try cuz the price was right.. to me, it was the worst collection of turds I've ever heard from the band known as Kiss.

Part of KISS' success was the marketing of the band and that's mostly Aucoin's doing and in the book I read, Bogart doing an AM radio hustle with FM radio DJs didn't go over well.

Aerosmith, Van Halen, and KISS all had the approach to tour like maniacs, Rush went along for the ride, but they went to places Led Zeppelin and The Who weren't. It was pretty grass roots but the logistics of the tour dates, amazing they didn't crash the tour bus, but KISS did lose a truck and a crew member that drove one of the trucks.

They should have just stuck with Eddie Kramer in the 70s, they made their best albums with him.

Everyone who's opened for KISS said they were great guys and nothing bad to say about them at that time. They were just young and hungry guys from New York trying to make it after years of trial and error. Ace was the only one who didn't really have battle scars (but probably a few knife scars from his "gang" years), and Gene had his career backup plans, but Peter and Paul were both committed to making rock n' roll their life since they were 14-15.

The marketing meant nothing initially, because the first 3 albums sounded like shit. The tunes were great, production was cardboard. The make up and costumes didn't sell the band. The records didn't move because they sounded crappy. Word of mouth was a big part of a band's success back then. You couldn't put any of the first 3 records on and expect to dazzle your friends. Alive changed that, you could put on side one of ALIVE and say "hey ana, check this out". I saw it happen many times.

It took the sonics of ALIVE to make those songs shine. Alive presented what the band was really about. It was the album that literally saved the band from extinction. It was the songs and the way they sounded on Alive that lead to its success and the bands much needed hit record.

The marketing fell in line afterwards.

[PITBOSS]

I suspect this to be gene's way to drum up interest in this. he's a salesman

[classicguns4life]

I suspect this to be gene's way to drum up interest in this. he's a salesman

He's fucking them over. The Rock Hall wants the original band because thats what's gonna get the most viewers. And if Gene keeps saying thats not gonna happen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Hall decides to forget them then.

[Zint]

It should be original four.

[Broskirose]

I suspect this to be gene's way to drum up interest in this. he's a salesman

He's fucking them over. The Rock Hall wants the original band because thats what's gonna get the most viewers. And if Gene keeps saying thats not gonna happen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Hall decides to forget them then.

Did you miss the part where Gene said that he was misquoted?

Edited November 6, 2013 by Broskirose

[classicguns4life]

I suspect this to be gene's way to drum up interest in this. he's a salesman

He's fucking them over. The Rock Hall wants the original band because thats what's gonna get the most viewers. And if Gene keeps saying thats not gonna happen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Hall decides to forget them then.

Did you miss the part where Gene said that he was misquoted?

Yeah, lets see if that backtracking is successful. You aren't misquoted when you call your former bandmates cancers.

[machinegunner]

Wait, they might not even get picked.

There's a high chance that the RNRHOF may frustrate KISS just to fuck with them because in the past Stanley & Simmons have been pretty vocal in that they pretty much think it's a joke.

Edited November 6, 2013 by machinegunner

[DieselDaisy]

If they do not induct them now, then the Kiss thing is going to hang over the Hall of the Fame every year until they are inducted. Same with Deep Purple; Kiss and Purple are two bands people have been saying, ''how the hell are they not in?' for bloody years.So the organisers may as well induct them now and get it over and done with.

[Cosmo]

So Paul has said nothing yet?

[classicguns4life]

If they do not induct them now, then the Kiss thing is going to hang over the Hall of the Fame every year until they are inducted. Same with Deep Purple; Kiss and Purple are two bands people have been saying, ''how the hell are they not in?' for bloody years.So the organisers may as well induct them now and get it over and done with.

Thing is I also don't see them inducting both. You'd think if that were the case, they would have inducted Purple, Kiss and Rush last year. I feel they'll milk each for a year. Rush was last time, Purple will be this time, and then maybe Kiss next year. Inducting both doesn't help them because thats the same people that care. If they prolong it, thats people they have sucked in for two years instead of just one.

Sorry, but that is most likely how idiotic the thinking is.

[DieselDaisy]

Plausible theory.

It shows how absurd the whole thing is, especially with Purple. GN'R got in in their first year and with that one album really, Appetite. Now Purple have at least three-four Appetite for Destructions! Purple were hard rock giants. They were one part (of three) gigantic British heavies alongside Zep and Sabbath. It makes no sense why they are not there.

[Johnny Drama]

I really wouldn't put anything by Deep Purple on the same level of importance as Appetite.

[DieselDaisy]

I really wouldn't put anything by Deep Purple on the same level of importance as Appetite.

I completely disagree. I would place In Rock, Machine Head and Made in Japan on the same level as Appetite. I would be tempted to place Fireball and Burn up there also.

[axlslash]

The Spaceman responds:

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ace-frehley-slams-gene-simmons-over-cancer-comments-all-he-can-do-is-badmouth-other-people/

[Subtle Signs]

I saw the KISS reunion in 96 but I wouldn't go around trying to KISS-educate folks because I didn't grow up on them. As far as who deserves to go in I'd vote for the original four along with Eric Carr,Bruce Kulick,Eric Singer and Vinnie Vincent.

[DR DOOM]

I really wouldn't put anything by Deep Purple on the same level of importance as Appetite.

Machine Head is Purple's AFD or Paranoid, pretty much every song is a standard.

Smoke On The Water, Highway Star, Space Truckin....probably more ingrained in RNR collective than Paradis City or WTTJ

[Broskirose]

I saw the KISS reunion in 96 but I wouldn't go around trying to KISS-educate folks because I didn't grow up on them. As far as who deserves to go in I'd vote for the original four along with Eric Carr,Bruce Kulick,Eric Singer and Vinnie Vincent.

Vinnie Vincent? Really?

[DR DOOM]

He played a pretty big part of KISS in the 80's, no matter how Gene wants to downplay it.

Wrote songs on Creatures, Lick It Up and Revenge, pretty much their best 80s records and had his own unique makeup.

I don't see it happening, but he is worthy if Eric Singer is.

[Cosmo]

He played a pretty big part of KISS in the 80's, no matter how Gene wants to downplay it.

Wrote songs on Creatures, Lick It Up and Revenge, pretty much their best 80s records and had his own unique makeup.

I don't see it happening, but he is worthy if Eric Singer is.

After the original line-up, Vinnie's the most important KISS member.

[classicguns4life]

He played a pretty big part of KISS in the 80's, no matter how Gene wants to downplay it.

Wrote songs on Creatures, Lick It Up and Revenge, pretty much their best 80s records and had his own unique makeup.

I don't see it happening, but he is worthy if Eric Singer is.

After the original line-up, Vinnie's the most important KISS member.

Pretty much, definitely in terms of writing. The best Revenge and 80s songs (at least the ones they played live) were co-written by his.

In terms of just keeping KISS going, Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr are the other ones that kept stuff afloat. They didn't really write, at least not as much as Vinnie, but they were instrumental in keeping that band on the road and giving the band a sound that was different than the original band but still good musically.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but I'd also guess many would say Eric Carr was the most important KISS member after the original lineup.

[Cosmo]

He played a pretty big part of KISS in the 80's, no matter how Gene wants to downplay it.

Wrote songs on Creatures, Lick It Up and Revenge, pretty much their best 80s records and had his own unique makeup.

I don't see it happening, but he is worthy if Eric Singer is.

After the original line-up, Vinnie's the most important KISS member.

Pretty much, definitely in terms of writing. The best Revenge and 80s songs (at least the ones they played live) were co-written by his.

In terms of just keeping KISS going, Bruce Kulick and Eric Carr are the other ones that kept stuff afloat. They didn't really write, at least not as much as Vinnie, but they were instrumental in keeping that band on the road and giving the band a sound that was different than the original band but still good musically.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with it, but I'd also guess many would say Eric Carr was the most important KISS member after the original lineup.

Completely agree with you here. But yeah, I'd say it's Vinnie since he helped write some of KISS biggest anthems: I Love It Loud and Lick It Up plus helped KISS out with Revenge.

Now really, just to throw this out there: IMO, Paul's importance in KISS > Gene + Ace + Peter + Vinnie + Carr + St.John + Kullick + Singer + Tommy.

[Zint]

Carr was the make or break member.

He was the litmus test to see if fans were willing to accept a new make up member.

He was also a part of the critical make or break make up removal era.

He blended well in both regards and helped make both scenarios work.

He was a crucial, imo.