When is it time to let go of a reunion or an older lineup?

[classicrawker]

Cash Grab.

No, this is a "cash grab".

Reuniting with former band members despite his blatant disinterest in doing so, could only be motivated by money. Releasing a new record 5 years ago and touring the shit out of that, is what artists do.

Except he is not touring the shit out of the new record as he barely plays any of the songs now and relies on old Guns and cover songs which to me smells like cash grab........so if he is not going top play ChiDem songs or release new music to tour what's the difference.....

Edited November 7, 2013 by classicrawker

[smoke]

Guns N' Roses - The Calm Before The Storm

The first song being called Beautiful Sunrise and each song would become more and more heavy and more up tempo. The closing song would be called Perfect Storm and it would be on the epic scale of Coma but with the catchiness of Jungle.

This would be great, and should end with the sounds of a punch up in studio.

[SoulMonster]

Cash Grab.

No, this is a "cash grab".

Reuniting with former band members despite his blatant disinterest in doing so, could only be motivated by money. Releasing a new record 5 years ago and touring the shit out of that, is what artists do.

Except he is not touring the shit out of the new record as he barely plays any of the songs now and relies on old Guns and cover songs which to me smells like cash grab........so if he is not going top play ChiDem songs or release new music to tour what's the difference.....

If we look on these last five years on the whole, CD has been heavily featured in the setlists. OF COURSE the setlists will mostly rely on classic songs. One mediocre record can't replace the songs the audiences come to hear. Yet, they have been playing 5-8 songs on average (I believe) from CD, which really tells that this is music the band wants to showcase.

A cash grab would be to reduce the number of CD songs to 0-2 per show, limit the covers, solo shows, so that the length of the show is reduced to 90-120 minutes and only tour in the highest paying markets. The band is clearly not doing that. An even bigger cash grab would be for Axl to reunite with Slash, despite all he has said and the apparent animosity, to tour ONLY old songs from 20 years ago. That would be utterly pathetic.

[wfuckinga]

All Things Considered

[D-GenerationX]

I am long on record saying that anyone seriously considering a reunion in the cards is a fool.

And this is not me retracting that. If anything, people that still cling to this after the RNR HOF mess might legit needs their heads examined.

But, for the purposes of this conversation, let's say it could happen. Two things stand out to me, one good, one bad.

The Good : Better setlists. As is stands now, they have a double album they don't even touch, except for the same few singles. That's a bummer. Those UYI albums have a lot of great songs on them. With a reunited band, some of them would be dusted off. That's good news.

The Bad : Guys, Axl sounds like crap. This is a huge deal. Not just for some reunion conversation, but even Axl continuing on with the current guys. The Youtube clips of him the past few years are a god damn mess. Despite a bunch of foolios over at HTGTH telling me how "he was great what I saw him", the clips don't lie. He sounds bad, real bad. So bad, I'd have serious reservations about buying a ticket to see him perform with ANYONE, old or new.

[SoulMonster]

The Bad : Guys, Axl sounds like crap. This is a huge deal. Not just for some reunion conversation, but even Axl continuing on with the current guys. The Youtube clips of him the past few years are a god damn mess. Despite a bunch of foolios over at HTGTH telling me how "he was great what I saw him", the clips don't lie. He sounds bad, real bad. So bad, I'd have serious reservations about buying a ticket to see him perform with ANYONE, old or new.

Yet, almost all professional concert reviews applaud his performances... Go figure...

[D-GenerationX]

The Bad : Guys, Axl sounds like crap. This is a huge deal. Not just for some reunion conversation, but even Axl continuing on with the current guys. The Youtube clips of him the past few years are a god damn mess. Despite a bunch of foolios over at HTGTH telling me how "he was great what I saw him", the clips don't lie. He sounds bad, real bad. So bad, I'd have serious reservations about buying a ticket to see him perform with ANYONE, old or new.

Yet, almost all professional concert reviews applaud his performances... Go figure...

I'm not trying to be flippant here, but are you deaf?

Call up any recent clip (2011 or 2012) of him singing live. You can seriously say with a straight face, gun to the back of your head, that he sounds good? Compared to what?

[SoulMonster]

The Bad : Guys, Axl sounds like crap. This is a huge deal. Not just for some reunion conversation, but even Axl continuing on with the current guys. The Youtube clips of him the past few years are a god damn mess. Despite a bunch of foolios over at HTGTH telling me how "he was great what I saw him", the clips don't lie. He sounds bad, real bad. So bad, I'd have serious reservations about buying a ticket to see him perform with ANYONE, old or new.

Yet, almost all professional concert reviews applaud his performances... Go figure...

I'm not trying to be flippant here, but are you deaf?

Call up any recent clip (2011 or 2012) of him singing live. You can seriously say with a straight face, gun to the back of your head, that he sounds good? Compared to what?

Yet, almost all professional concert reviews applaud his performances... Go figure...

I have been to enough concerts to know that a concert experience is the synergy of the whole band playing combined with the visuals and the mood of the event. I believe reviewers who say Axl still got it and delivers an awesome show and I also believe people listening to youtube videos and saying his voice isn't always good. There is no contradiction here.

I am quite aware of how Axl's voice has changed since my favourite period, 1988. But the fact that it isn't as good anymore doesn't mean it isn't good enough to carry a live concert and entertain the audiences.

[DieselDaisy]

Cash Grab.

No, this is a "cash grab".

Releasing a new record 5 years ago and touring the shit out of that, is what artists do.

No it isn't.

[SoulMonster]

Cash Grab.

No, this is a "cash grab".

Releasing a new record 5 years ago and touring the shit out of that, is what artists do.

No it isn't.

Okay, how about "Releasing music and touring is what musicians do"? My point was still that GN'R isn't all about the past, as some would like to argue to convince people that a reunion is better than what we have.

[Apollo]

The last show I looked up, GnR played FOUR CD songs out of 24..........one of which has been played live since 2001. Those four songs were on an album released five years ago. And there is no news on an upcoming album in the near future.

Going on past history, the next tour will feature 2 CD songs, a new Illusions song, two new covers and another song with Tommy singing lead vocals. And no new original GnR music.

[DieselDaisy]

I think the very fact that the new band is currently all about nostalgia and cash grabbing supports the idea of a reunion. At least, if it is about nostalgia, reunite and provide that nostalgia with the guys who actually wrote the bloody songs. Up until about 2011, my main argument against reunion concerned the fact that it would be so un-artistic and probably not entail new material. Axl, with the new band, envisioned a ‘trilogy’ of albums and seemed to have lots of exciting ideas about producing albums with interesting artists like Buckethead (I am going back to 1999-2001 here). Now, those ideas no longer exist and we are witnessing Pat Boone! Axl has even recruited a cheesy Sunset Strip wannabe in Ashba.

Axl may as well reunite then. Reunite. Tour for two years. Make loads of money. Give fans their dose of nostalgia. Release a live dvd. Retire and wrap the whole thing up before GN’R end up an even bigger joke than they are now.

[Bobbo]

The argument that a reunion would be more of a cash grab than what Axl's doing now is so asinine to me.

The set list is has been cutting down CD songs since 2011 to the point where there at 3 or 4 per show. As Groghan has said, one of those songs has been played since '01, and the other three are from an album over half a decade old, and they're showing no current signs of actually moving forward. It's mainly a cover fest of the classic songs now more than ever. On top of that, three members of the nu group (Bumble, Stinson, and Fortus) have openly admitted in interviews that they weren't even fans of GNR before being hired by Axl. Yet the vast majority of the current set list is them playing songs they don't even particularly like. And yet, they're not held together more by the almighty dollar than what most consider to be the real deal?

Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, and Matt are all still friends and still seem to genuinely like playing music together. They have actual emotional attachments to the songs people actually love, as they were the ones who actually took part in creating them. Axl's friends with Izzy and Duff, he's cool with Matt as of 2006 (according to Matt), and his feelings towards Steven seem to flow more towards annoyance rather than hatred. The only person he actually hates is Slash, which would have to be worked out before Axl and Slash would even consider a reunion. Therefore, it would be way better compared to frankensteining a group of second rate nobodies together who are on board mainly for money and exposure for their own careers which barely exist.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bobbo

[DieselDaisy]

I tend to believe that 'reunion tours' (if it is a reunion tour we are talking about here like Kiss in 1996) are all inherently cash grabs though. They all lack that essential desire to make new music.

[Bobbo]

I tend to believe that 'reunion tours' (if it is a reunion tour we are talking about here like Kiss in 1996) are all inherently cash grabs though. They all lack that essential desire to make new music.

Maybe. But if Axl's not gonna create or even release new nu music, and at this point it's becoming more and more apparent that it's not on the agenda, I rather have a reunion. By far.

And who knows? Maybe if they all made amends it could lead to Axl getting more inspired.

I'm not fooling myself though. I'm more than confident that all we're gonna get from Axl until Axl retires or dies is the same ol' nostalgic touring with the nu guys.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bobbo

[Padme]

I think the very fact that the new band is currently all about nostalgia and cash grabbing supports the idea of a reunion. At least, if it is about nostalgia, reunite and provide that nostalgia with the guys who actually wrote the bloody songs. Up until about 2011, my main argument against reunion concerned the fact that it would be so un-artistic and probably not entail new material. Axl, with the new band, envisioned a ‘trilogy’ of albums and seemed to have lots of exciting ideas about producing albums with interesting artists like Buckethead (I am going back to 1999-2001 here). Now, those ideas no longer exist and we are witnessing Pat Boone! Axl has even recruited a cheesy Sunset Strip wannabe in Ashba.

Axl may as well reunite then. Reunite. Tour for two years. Make loads of money. Give fans their dose of nostalgia. Release a live dvd. Retire and wrap the whole thing up before GN’R end up an even bigger joke than they are now.

I don´t have a problem with them making money. My problem is that CD took more than 10 years in the maing. It´s not exactly the best album ever. It was not well promoted at all. The set list have been mostly old songs, jams and covers. And as you said Axl announced in 2001 that they have plenty of new songs. We got a couple of leaks. But nothing was ever played live. And it seems the band has no future plans other than idiotic chats about jams.

I don´t see how Axl can have it both ways. He doesn´t want to do anything with the new band. And he doesn´t want to do anything with the original band. He has to make up his mind. Let´s say there is a reunion. Still they better come up with another album first and show something new. It doesn´t have to be something sofisticated. But with an album the reunion tour would make more sense. For example Black Sabbath is on a reunion tour and they have a new album. And they play songs from that album and also the old classics

[paranoyd androyd]

I tend to believe that 'reunion tours' (if it is a reunion tour we are talking about here like Kiss in 1996) are all inherently cash grabs though. They all lack that essential desire to make new music.

agreed, and that's why most people who wish for reunions feel so disappointed when they see how they actually turn out.

i have an 'all or nothing' view about the 5 originals.. resolve your differences, make new music, and then tour.. or just retire GNR completely.

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

2001

[DieselDaisy]

My main concern about a new 'reunion' album is, Axl's working practices. Appetite was recorded in one month, mixed, mastered, then the band moved on. Following GN'R, Slash, Izzy and Duff have recorded their solo music in a similar manner. Axl however has not recorded in a raw live manner since GN'R Lies! As early as Illusion, he spent the best part of a year adding overdubs to the thing (and delaying the release date). Axl's idea of recording an album is, to spend years on the overdubs, sit on it for a few years, come back to it and add more overdubs, then release it (Chinese Democracy) or stick it in the vault (the rest of the 'Chinese Democracy' sessions). Axl and Slash's working procedure could not be more different as Slash still follows the Appetite style of recording live and not 'sitting on the album' for any length of time. There is also the issue of Axl not turning up for recording sessions. Judging by what I have read about the making of Chinese Democracy, this practice persisted beyond the ill-fated sessions at the Complex 1994-1997. I see no reason why they would not persist even today.

How then could Axl and the classic line-up possibly record together again? You would have to believe that Axl could change his whole methodology and aesthetic inclination for this album.

[Bobbo]

My main concern about a new 'reunion' album is, Axl's working practices. Appetite was recorded in one month, mixed, mastered, then the band moved on. Following GN'R, Slash, Izzy and Duff have recorded their solo music in a similar manner. Axl however has not recorded in a raw live manner since GN'R Lies! As early as Illusion, he spent the best part of a year adding overdubs to the thing (and delaying the release date). Axl's idea of recording an album is, to spend years on the overdubs, sit on it for a few years, come back to it and add more overdubs, then release it (Chinese Democracy) or stick it in the vault (the rest of the 'Chinese Democracy' sessions). Axl and Slash's working procedure could not be more different as Slash still follows the Appetite style of recording live and not 'sitting on the album' for any length of time. There is also the issue of Axl not turning up for recording sessions. Judging by what I have read about the making of Chinese Democracy, this practice persisted beyond the ill-fated sessions at the Complex 1994-1997. I see no reason why they would not persist even today.

How then could Axl and the classic line-up possibly record together again? You would have to believe that Axl could change his whole methodology and aesthetic inclination for this album.

Very good points, and very true.

My point just lies in theory. If they were to reunite, I'm sure compromises would have to be made to incorporate everyone's desires. Maybe to make the album not too raw, but not too overcooked? Somewhere in the middle?

I just personally would rather have a reunion over what we have with the nu line up currently.

But ideally, with things being how they are at this point, I'd just rather Axl or "GNR" to retire, and put a lid on the whole thing once and for all. No Axl>Half assed Axl. IMHO.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bobbo

[Lim666]

Axl's 2011+ voice next to Slash's guitar sound? I'm really not eager to hear that...
as for me it would work best releasing lots of the vault (1985-1993) officially.

wait, unofficially would be very fine aswell \m/

[Padme]

My main concern about a new 'reunion' album is, Axl's working practices. Appetite was recorded in one month, mixed, mastered, then the band moved on. Following GN'R, Slash, Izzy and Duff have recorded their solo music in a similar manner. Axl however has not recorded in a raw live manner since GN'R Lies! As early as Illusion, he spent the best part of a year adding overdubs to the thing (and delaying the release date). Axl's idea of recording an album is, to spend years on the overdubs, sit on it for a few years, come back to it and add more overdubs, then release it (Chinese Democracy) or stick it in the vault (the rest of the 'Chinese Democracy' sessions). Axl and Slash's working procedure could not be more different as Slash still follows the Appetite style of recording live and not 'sitting on the album' for any length of time. There is also the issue of Axl not turning up for recording sessions. Judging by what I have read about the making of Chinese Democracy, this practice persisted beyond the ill-fated sessions at the Complex 1994-1997. I see no reason why they would not persist even today.

How then could Axl and the classic line-up possibly record together again? You would have to believe that Axl could change his whole methodology and aesthetic inclination for this album.

I understand that may very well be the case. But if there is ever a reunion many things must change. And most of those things have to do with Axl and his bezarre behavior. Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven or Matt won´t tolerate delays, overproduction, this current management team and all the other Axl´s excentricities. Before any plans for an album or tour they need to be friends again. And they need to debate and reach an agreement about how things will be run. It´s not something it will happen with some magic trick

[SoulMonster]

I think the very fact that the new band is currently all about nostalgia and cash grabbing supports the idea of a reunion.

But that isn't a fact. Playing a set where a large fraction are songs off CD, new covers, and new solos, isn't "all about nostalgia". Playing ONLY old songs would be "all about nostalgia".

I know you guys really want to piece together a coherent argument for why the band "might as well" just do a reunion, but you can't do that by arguing that they are only playing old songs nowadays (as in from before 2001) and therefore might as well get the old guys together to play them properly. Because they aren't. During these last five years the setlists have heavily featured new songs, whether that is original GN'R songs, covers or solos.

[SoulMonster]

The argument that a reunion would be more of a cash grab than what Axl's doing now is so asinine to me.

If we look at what Axl has been doing the last five years then it is undoubtedly about showcasing new songs. That speaks of being an artist. Reuniting with people he doesn't want to be with is probably about earning money. That is a cash grab.

Of course, if Axl were to reunite, despite all the animosity, because he believes that they share some unique creative bond and would be able to make magical music again, then a reunion wouldn't be a cash grab. But if you believe that you might as well believe Axl will invite you to become a go-go dancer during the reunion shows.

I tend to believe that 'reunion tours' (if it is a reunion tour we are talking about here like Kiss in 1996) are all inherently cash grabs though. They all lack that essential desire to make new music.

Maybe. But if Axl's not gonna create or even release new nu music, and at this point it's becoming more and more apparent that it's not on the agenda, I rather have a reunion. By far.

The jury is still out on that one. But seriously, why reunite with guys who wouldn't be able to play the whole GN'R discography? Slash would get a hernia just trying to play Shackler's or There Was A Time. It's is much better to let the current lineup play GN'R songs even if no new music is to be released.

My main concern about a new 'reunion' album is, Axl's working practices. Appetite was recorded in one month, mixed, mastered, then the band moved on. Following GN'R, Slash, Izzy and Duff have recorded their solo music in a similar manner. Axl however has not recorded in a raw live manner since GN'R Lies! As early as Illusion, he spent the best part of a year adding overdubs to the thing (and delaying the release date). Axl's idea of recording an album is, to spend years on the overdubs, sit on it for a few years, come back to it and add more overdubs, then release it (Chinese Democracy) or stick it in the vault (the rest of the 'Chinese Democracy' sessions). Axl and Slash's working procedure could not be more different as Slash still follows the Appetite style of recording live and not 'sitting on the album' for any length of time. There is also the issue of Axl not turning up for recording sessions. Judging by what I have read about the making of Chinese Democracy, this practice persisted beyond the ill-fated sessions at the Complex 1994-1997. I see no reason why they would not persist even today.

How then could Axl and the classic line-up possibly record together again? You would have to believe that Axl could change his whole methodology and aesthetic inclination for this album.

I agree wholeheartedly. Why would old members put up with this today when only drug-induced indifference allowed it back in the days?

My point just lies in theory. If they were to reunite, I'm sure compromises would have to be made to incorporate everyone's desires. Maybe to make the album not too raw, but not too overcooked? Somewhere in the middle?

Yes, because Axl loves compromises!

Picture my hand resting on my sunken forehead, covering my eyes.

A reunion wouldn't work because the guys despise each other, they have completely different thoughts on the creative processes, they have grown apart musically, they are uncompromising, they wouldn't be able to recreate the magic, they would come off as greedy bastards...

[Bobbo]

-The fact that throughout that half a decade period they went from playing almost the entire sole nu album to about 3-4 songs shows me they're putting that music on the back burner and focusing more and more now on covering songs, and covering past shit. Bumble had to cancel his tour because of "Guns" plans, and if they come back touring in the foreseeable future, it's gonna be more about the nostalgic side of things rather than moving Nu Guns further.

-it'd be less of a cash grab than it is now seeing again how most of the old band likes each other and likes playing with each other. The only main problem is between Axl and Slash. And if that were to ever be resolved, it wouldn't be money that solves it. Both of them would have to come to amends about the past. That's the only way either one of them are game. Better than frankensteining a "band" together where several of the current players admit to not being fans of the now 90% of gnr songs played live. The old guys could easily play the cover songs the nu guys are playing. Most don't give a wet fart about the "solos" and solo career covers the nu guys do, aside from it being a great time to take a piss.

-Also as I stated earlier, at this point, I ideally would wish Axl to just retire the name once and for all. But compared to what we have now, I rather have a reunion milking the nostalgia. Only a very small fraction of fans (as in the people who go to these shows) gives a shit about Chinese Democracy. Most don't even consider it a legit GNR album and wouldn't bat an eye if Axl never played those songs again. The vast majority don't care about anything past the '87-'91 material. It's really a non issue.

-As for your last point, like I said, if a reunion happens, it wouldn't be because of money for either side. Especially for Axl. The personal hatred is too strong. Amends will have to be made. Internal adjustments would have to occur. But even if it didn't create new music, it's a better scenario for most to have the actual methods to the madness milking the nostalgia instead of what's essentially a parody.

Sure, technically "the jury's still out" on the nu guys, but it's not looking very promising, and it doesn't look like there's much push to move forward. Axl can't even release beach towels and live DVDs without issues. I'd be more than confident betting all my chips on the table that we'll never see another nu album released while Axl's alive, if not ever.