When is it time to let go of a reunion or an older lineup?

[SoulMonster]

-The fact that throughout that half a decade period they went from playing almost the entire sole nu album to about 3-4 songs shows me they're putting that music on the back burner and focusing more and more now on covering songs, and covering past shit. Bumble had to cancel his tour because of "Guns" plans, and if they come back touring in the foreseeable future, it's gonna be more about the nostalgic side of things rather than moving Nu Guns further.

-it'd be less of a cash grab than it is now seeing again how most of the old band likes each other and likes playing with each other. The only main problem is between Axl and Slash. And if that were to ever be resolved, it wouldn't be money that solves it. Both of them would have to come to amends about the past. That's the only way either one of them are game. Better than frankensteining a "band" together where several of the current players admit to not being fans of the now 90% of gnr songs played live. The old guys could easily play the cover songs the nu guys are playing. Most don't give a wet fart about the "solos" and solo career covers the nu guys do, aside from it being a great time to take a piss.

-Also as I stated earlier, at this point, I ideally would wish Axl to just retire the name once and for all. But compared to what we have now, I rather have a reunion milking the nostalgia. Only a very small fraction of fans (as in the people who go to these shows) gives a shit about Chinese Democracy. Most don't even consider it a legit GNR album and wouldn't bat an eye if Axl never played those songs again. The vast majority don't care about anything past the '87-'91 material. It's really a non issue.

-As for your last point, like I said, if a reunion happens, it wouldn't be because of money for either side. Especially for Axl. The personal hatred is too strong. Amends will have to be made. Internal adjustments would have to occur. But even if it didn't create new music, it's a better scenario for most to have the actual methods to the madness milking the nostalgia instead of what's essentially a parody.

Sure, technically "the jury's still out" on the nu guys, but it's not looking very promising, and it doesn't look like there's much push to move forward. Axl can't even release beach towels and live DVDs without issues. I'd be more than confident betting all my chips on the table that we'll never see another nu album released while Axl's alive, if not ever.

Yes, they have been playing less from CD in 2013 than in previous years. That doesn't mean they aren't still playing songs off CD, as well as new covers and solos. Again, as long as they play "new" songs the argument that they "might as well reunite" is flawed.

Sure, if Slash and Axl became BFF again and they reunited because of artistic reasons, then it wouldn't be a cash grab thingy. But no one in their right minds believe this will happen.

[Bobbo]

-The fact that throughout that half a decade period they went from playing almost the entire sole nu album to about 3-4 songs shows me they're putting that music on the back burner and focusing more and more now on covering songs, and covering past shit. Bumble had to cancel his tour because of "Guns" plans, and if they come back touring in the foreseeable future, it's gonna be more about the nostalgic side of things rather than moving Nu Guns further.

-it'd be less of a cash grab than it is now seeing again how most of the old band likes each other and likes playing with each other. The only main problem is between Axl and Slash. And if that were to ever be resolved, it wouldn't be money that solves it. Both of them would have to come to amends about the past. That's the only way either one of them are game. Better than frankensteining a "band" together where several of the current players admit to not being fans of the now 90% of gnr songs played live. The old guys could easily play the cover songs the nu guys are playing. Most don't give a wet fart about the "solos" and solo career covers the nu guys do, aside from it being a great time to take a piss.

-Also as I stated earlier, at this point, I ideally would wish Axl to just retire the name once and for all. But compared to what we have now, I rather have a reunion milking the nostalgia. Only a very small fraction of fans (as in the people who go to these shows) gives a shit about Chinese Democracy. Most don't even consider it a legit GNR album and wouldn't bat an eye if Axl never played those songs again. The vast majority don't care about anything past the '87-'91 material. It's really a non issue.

-As for your last point, like I said, if a reunion happens, it wouldn't be because of money for either side. Especially for Axl. The personal hatred is too strong. Amends will have to be made. Internal adjustments would have to occur. But even if it didn't create new music, it's a better scenario for most to have the actual methods to the madness milking the nostalgia instead of what's essentially a parody.

Sure, technically "the jury's still out" on the nu guys, but it's not looking very promising, and it doesn't look like there's much push to move forward. Axl can't even release beach towels and live DVDs without issues. I'd be more than confident betting all my chips on the table that we'll never see another nu album released while Axl's alive, if not ever.

Yes, they have been playing less from CD in 2013 than in previous years. That doesn't mean they aren't still playing songs off CD, as well as new covers and solos. Again, as long as they play "new" songs the argument that they "might as well reunite" is flawed.

Sure, if Slash and Axl became BFF again and they reunited because of artistic reasons, then it wouldn't be a cash grab thingy. But no one in their right minds believe this will happen.

it's not as "flawed" as you're making it out to be, when 90% of the actual GNR material played are the songs that mostly no one in the band aside from Axl and to a smaller extent Dizzy had ANYTHING to do with. Even when you count CD stuff anyways, 4 of the current nu members had very little-nothing to do with those songs. The covers aren't something exclusive to the nu band, and the solo spots (mostly covers from their solo careers) are insignificant because most don't really give a shit about them.

Even if it were just for the money, if it's just mainly gonna be milking the past from here on out (which seems to be the case as of now), it'd be better for most to the have what most consider the real deal (most of whom which still like and play together) and who have emotional attachments to the songs, as opposed to a parody milking the nostalgia that contains several members who don't give a shit about 87-91 gnr. Most of the nu guys are second rates who seem to be mainly in it for the money and exposure. But the only way a reunion would happen anyways is if Axl and Slash made up. And I agree, a reunion of any form is unlikely to happen at this point. I don't believe, for several reasons, that new nu music is much more likely at all either. I'm just talking hypotheticals, and saying what most people would prefer. Especially as of now.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Bobbo

[SoulMonster]

it's not as "flawed" as you're making it out to be, when 90% of the actual GNR material played are the songs that mostly no one in the band aside from Axl and to a smaller extent Dizzy had ANYTHING to do with. Even when you count CD stuff anyways, 4 of the current nu members had very little-nothing to do with those songs. The covers aren't something exclusive to the nu band, and the solo spots (mostly covers from their solo careers) are insignificant because most don't really give a shit about them.

Even if it were just for the money, if it's just mainly gonna be milking the past from here on out (which seems to be the case as of now), it'd be better for most to the have what most consider the real deal (most of whom which still like and play together) and who have emotional attachments to the songs, as opposed to a parody milking the nostalgia that contains several members who don't give a shit about 87-91 gnr. Most of the nu guys are second rates who seem to be mainly in it for the money and exposure. But the only way a reunion would happen anyways is if Axl and Slash made up. And I agree, a reunion of any form is unlikely to happen at this point. I don't believe, for several reasons, that new nu music is much more likely at all either. I'm just talking hypotheticals, and saying what most people would prefer. Especially as of now.

But fact remains that they "aren't just playing old stuff and might as well therefore reunite". Whether the number of "new" songs are 3 or 8 is irrelevant. Even just playing one new song proves the band has moved on and added new music to its discography since the 90's and hence it isn't "just about nostalgia". You might perfectly well say that one song isn't enough to warrant going on and not reuniting, which is fine, but don't argue as if the band hasn't done anything since the 90's, that is flawed argumentation.

Again, we don't know what will happen in the future. If the band is going to release more music then your argumentation is moot. I will say that the jury is still out on this one. Until Axl states the opposite I will believe new music is in the cards for the future, even if his silence and refusal to share his plans for the future is slightly disconcerting. But even if no new music were to be released I would still, personally, prefer the current lineup to keep on playing Better, There Was A Time, Shackler's AND classic songs from the 80's and 90's rather than having to endure the integrity-loss and humiliating scene of witnessing my childhood idols reunite despite animosity just for cashing in and only playing some songs from GN'R's discography. The mere thought makes me shudder.

[Roky]

When is it time to let go of a reunion ?

when slash or axl die. as long as they're alive nobody should give up their hopes about a reunion. we're only one phone call away from it, after all. that makes the fakegnr fanatics very nervous........

[Bobbo]

it's not as "flawed" as you're making it out to be, when 90% of the actual GNR material played are the songs that mostly no one in the band aside from Axl and to a smaller extent Dizzy had ANYTHING to do with. Even when you count CD stuff anyways, 4 of the current nu members had very little-nothing to do with those songs. The covers aren't something exclusive to the nu band, and the solo spots (mostly covers from their solo careers) are insignificant because most don't really give a shit about them.

Even if it were just for the money, if it's just mainly gonna be milking the past from here on out (which seems to be the case as of now), it'd be better for most to the have what most consider the real deal (most of whom which still like and play together) and who have emotional attachments to the songs, as opposed to a parody milking the nostalgia that contains several members who don't give a shit about 87-91 gnr. Most of the nu guys are second rates who seem to be mainly in it for the money and exposure. But the only way a reunion would happen anyways is if Axl and Slash made up. And I agree, a reunion of any form is unlikely to happen at this point. I don't believe, for several reasons, that new nu music is much more likely at all either. I'm just talking hypotheticals, and saying what most people would prefer. Especially as of now.

But fact remains that they "aren't just playing old stuff and might as well therefore reunite". Whether the number of "new" songs are 3 or 8 is irrelevant. Even just playing one new song proves the band has moved on and added new music to its discography since the 90's and hence it isn't "just about nostalgia". You might perfectly well say that one song isn't enough to warrant going on and not reuniting, which is fine, but don't argue as if the band hasn't done anything since the 90's, that is flawed argumentation.

Again, we don't know what will happen in the future. If the band is going to release more music then your argumentation is moot. I will say that the jury is still out on this one. Until Axl states the opposite I will believe new music is in the cards for the future, even if his silence and refusal to share his plans for the future is slightly disconcerting. But even if no new music were to be released I would still, personally, prefer the current lineup to keep on playing Better, There Was A Time, Shackler's AND classic songs from the 80's and 90's rather than having to endure the integrity-loss and humiliating scene of witnessing my childhood idols reunite despite animosity just for cashing in and only playing some songs from GN'R's discography. The mere thought makes me shudder.

They're mainly (and I heavily emphasize MAINLY) just playing the '87-'91 heyday gnr songs (as far as GNR songs go), to the point now that the nu songs have reached back burner status, and the amount of nu songs played have decreased significantly in the last 5 years. So yeah, if it's just gonna mainly be about the heyday songs, instead of a delicate balance of old and nu songs, and it's not gonna move anymore forward, might as well get the heyday band to milk them instead of (mainly) a parody that features several that don't like said heyday songs, and are connected together mainly by the almighty dollar (and exposure).

It's not that Axl hasn't done anything with the name since the '90s, it's that he hasn't done anything significant with it since the '90s. CD left little to almost no impression on the overall fanbase and overall concert goers. Nu Guns, creatively, is more along the lines of Van Halen III than Van Hagar. You very seldom see anyone leave a Van Halen show angry because they didn't play dick from the Gary Cherone days. It's more or less the same case for Nu Guns.

Sure, you might be disappointed not hearing anything from CD live again, but you're in the minority on that. Most wouldn't give a shit, and don't consider it GNR anyways.

[saber_]

When is it time to let go of a reunion ?

when slash or axl die. as long as they're alive nobody should give up their hopes about a reunion. we're only one phone call away from it, after all. that makes the fakegnr fanatics very nervous........

"Fakegnr fanatics"? Dude, you realize you're talking about like 10 people on the internet, right? Right? I mean let's be real: how many "fanatics" have you really come across? Where are all they? Furthermore, no one is "nervous" about the prospect of a reunion, that's just preposterous.

Let's take a look at it from another point of view. Let's not forget... Axl has made it very clear, in multiple statements, in no uncertain terms, that a reunion ain't gonna fuckin happen. It's not complicated! So while it might bother you that fans can evolve with the band and even enjoy what it has to offer in 2013, that doesn't mean that they're "fanatics" just because they don't frivolously obsess over a reunion. If a reunion happens, hey, yippy skippy. I can dig it. But guess what? Continually thinking about that phone call you referred to is not healthy, and could be considered "fanatical" in many instances.

[DieselDaisy]

The jury is still out on that one. But seriously, why reunite with guys who wouldn't be able to play the whole GN'R discography? Slash would get a hernia just trying to play Shackler's or There Was A Time. It's is much better to let the current lineup play GN'R songs even if no new music is to be released.

This is true for Shacklers which has the whole fretless thing, and by the way is an awful song, but I feel TWAT is well within Slash's abilities. I would not want to hear either of these songs if there was a reunion becaue, neither of them can compete with the 1987-91 discography.

I agree wholeheartedly. Why would old members put up with this today when only drug-induced indifference allowed it back in the days?

Oh, I did not say that at all. You know, Axl himself once recorded a raw rock n' roll album and it was called Appetite for Destruction? For some reason, circa 1990-1, the guy became obsessed with overdubs. It is a shame Axl does not realise his own greatness rests on matching-up his voice alongside a bluesy guitarist and delivering it in a raw manner. I would much rather see Axl recording rock n' roll records than wanking over a computer for the best part of a decade.

[SoulMonster]

I agree wholeheartedly. Why would old members put up with this today when only drug-induced indifference allowed it back in the days?

Oh, I did not say that at all. You know, Axl himself once recorded a raw rock n' roll album and it was called Appetite for Destruction? For some reason, circa 1990-1, the guy became obsessed with overdubs. It is a shame Axl does not realise his own greatness rests on matching-up his voice alongside a bluesy guitarist and delivering it in a raw manner. I would much rather see Axl recording rock n' roll records than wanking over a computer for the best part of a decade.

I doubt he would be interested in that. He prefers to work on things his way, and whereas he was okay with how they did AFD back when they were a band of brothers, there is no way I think he'd compromise and do it that way again now. You can't revert time, you can't make them young and egalitarian again.The egos are full-grown now.

[DieselDaisy]

It his, by a million miles, his greatest album though, Appetite. All those overdubs on Illusion merely ruined the thing and Democracy is an absolute mess of an album.

[Chunder Monkey]

The jury is still out on that one. But seriously, why reunite with guys who wouldn't be able to play the whole GN'R discography?

If inability to accurately render the entire GNR back catalogue note perfectly was an impediment to being in GNR then Robin Fink wouldn't have been hired.

Twice.

I'm sure the logic that said Robin's interpretation of Slash's solos was valid artistic licence could easily be applied to whatever modifications slash might make to the TWAT solo....

[SoulMonster]

I think it is a great record, too, but, unlike some, I harbour no illusions that bringing those that made it, 25 years later, together again would somehow lead to another record of equal greatness. They have changed too much from what made AFD so fantastic and so have the contexts of their lives. I believe.

[SoulMonster]

The jury is still out on that one. But seriously, why reunite with guys who wouldn't be able to play the whole GN'R discography?

If inability to accurately render the entire GNR back catalogue note perfectly was an impediment to being in GNR then Robin Fink wouldn't have been hired.

Twice.

I'm sure the logic that said Robin's interpretation of Slash's solos was valid artistic licence could easily be applied to whatever modifications slash might make to the TWAT solo....

I am not talking about accurately rendering the songs, I am talking about being able to play them so that they at least vaguely resemble the songs or at least capture the style they where written in (in regards to speed, guitar type (fretless vs fretted), picking techniques, tapping, etc). Both Finck and Dj are able to do that (although not perfectly, for instance like how they bend notes or whether they deviate slightly from the melody). Slash wouldn't be able in hell to play Shackler's, or parts of There Was A Time, whereas Bumblefoot can play everything Slash ever did perfectly. Don't think for a second that this means I prefer Bumblefoot to Slash, my argument is simply that if all we want is a band who can play the GN'R discography, then the current lineup is more adept than any previous. If we were to revert to a former lineup, like the UYI lineup, that would mean that some songs would not be played because of technical limitations. And I personally wouldn't like that, in addition to many other reasons. Of course, if you have no love for CD songs then this isn't an argument to YOU, but to me it is

[DieselDaisy]

Slash is more technically adept than many give him credit for. Listen to, for instance, Anastasia or Serial Killer.

[SoulMonster]

Slash is more technically adept than many give him credit for. Listen to, for instance, Anastasia or Serial Killer.

Still miles away from any current GN'R guitarists. He might have a better tone and waaaaay better ears for catchy melodies and cool riffs, but as for technicality he is quite limited.

[magisme]

I hate it when this happens to threads.

[SoulMonster]

I hate it when this happens to threads.

As long as our resident guitar nerds don't see it this will just be a quick detour off-topic and we can go back to discussing how many years after a breakup it's okay to finally come to terms with the situation.

Edited November 8, 2013 by SoulMonster

[supercool]

i'm going to wait until 2015 before i give up 'cuz 2015 will be the 30th anniversary of gnr, so it could be a good occasion to make the reunion happen

Edited November 8, 2013 by supercool

[D-GenerationX]

i'm going to wait until 2015 before i give up 'cuz 2015 will be the 30th anniversary of gnr, so it could be a good occasion to make the reunion happen

I'm sorry, but I have to ask at this point.

How in the blue hell are you still clinging to this after the RNR HOF? I know a lot of people (perhaps you among them) were putting all their eggs in the HOF basket. That's where Axl would supposedly finally see the light and we'd get the nice Hollywood ending.

But it didn't happen. Its not going to happen. Ever.

[supercool]

it's always quite funny to read people who talk like if they were "in the know" lol

nobody knows what axl will decide in the future, things can change very fast

[D-GenerationX]

it's always quite funny to read people who talk like if they were "in the know" lol

nobody knows what axl will decide in the future, things can change very fast

Sure. Never mind the YEARS of evidence to the contrary, up to and including a direct quote where Axl forecasts his own death before a reunion.

Because, hey, you have a hunch. Gotcha.

[supercool]

whatever. have a nice time waiting for cd2, never mind the evidence that nobody cares about it outside of this forum.

Edited November 8, 2013 by supercool

[Lim666]

the only real scenario for Axl to re-unite would be cause of serious $$$ problems. he and his team are leading very expensive lifestyles which has to be paid for. as for now, it appears Axl doesnt need the extra-cash much (though he did hint in the 12/2008 online chats that it would be cool to make more money these days). even if he'd ever go some broke (let's not forget he sold his publishing rights for about 17 Mio $$ and still is earning tons of money from 87-93 GN'R songs being played on radio etc.), it only needed to be some few high profiled gigs kinda like Led Zep did in 2007. 5 shows of that in selected eras of the world would do him $$$-free ever, hell, even 1 show would do it!! but he'd seriously have to deal with his Slash phobia first.

though 2h on stage next one man you hate isnt that complicated to do when the reward would be total financial freedom for him and his kids, hups, Brazilian team, right?

but do you really want to hear Mickey's voice next to Slash's guitar sound???!

Edited November 8, 2013 by Lim666

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

So the same people are still bitching about the same crap? Wow, how refreshing.

[Padme]

i'm going to wait until 2015 before i give up 'cuz 2015 will be the 30th anniversary of gnr, so it could be a good occasion to make the reunion happen

I'm sorry, but I have to ask at this point.

How in the blue hell are you still clinging to this after the RNR HOF? I know a lot of people (perhaps you among them) were putting all their eggs in the HOF basket. That's where Axl would supposedly finally see the light and we'd get the nice Hollywood ending.

But it didn't happen. Its not going to happen. Ever.

What are the future plans of this current line up? There is no new album in the horizon. They can´t spend the rest of their lives on tour playing a few songs from CD and a lot from the old albums.

So there is room for fans to speculate about a plan B or other alternatives. If reunion is out of the question, then what?

[D-GenerationX]

whatever. have a nice time waiting for cd2, never mind the evidence that nobody cares about it outside of this forum.

Feel better? Is that supposed to be some huge insult?

Just because I find the reunion crowd to be naïve morons hardly means I think Axl is doing a bang up job with his operation.

But, if you want to handicap it, there will be a new album before a reunion. Even a 1% chance trumps something never ever happening, no?

What are the future plans of this current line up? There is no new album in the horizon. They can´t spend the rest of their lives on tour playing a few songs from CD and a lot from the old albums.

So there is room for fans to speculate about a plan B or other alternatives. If reunion is out of the question, then what?

I don't even think he has any plans. Do you really see any evidence? I don't.

But I am failing to see a connection between Axl's laziness / general incompetence and any sort of reunion talk. Is there one I am not seeing? And what is with this alleged nobility in "never saying never"? Its foolish.

As to your one point, I actually do think he can keep touring with the current guys and playing generally the same setlist. He's still selling tickets the world over. It might not be at the level it once was, sure. But anyone still following him pretty much always will. And there will always be a market for Axl Rose singing well known GNR songs.

Edited November 8, 2013 by D-GenerationX