wasted Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 If you listen to a song, which do you think is more important on first listen?I reckon the riff is important, without that the vocal can suck or even the lyrics but a solid riff is always and forever. Even some songs I think have terrible lyrics it's more subjective and easily ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakey Styley Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Vocals, for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Drama Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Structure and a semblance of a melody.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Vocal might kill the track. A lot of hair metal bands used to start out great with an awesome riff then the vocals started and it wasn't really good. But ACDC with Brian Johnson vocals not really into, lyrics kind of silly. TNT example. Great riff vocals and lyrics silly, still kind of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) I'm with Johnny on this one. Structure/melody is far and away the most important element of a song. Vocals can make or break a song, but without structure/melody there is no song.Definitely not lyrics. I tend to not even pay attention to the lyrics of a song until I've overplayed the shit out of it and I'm looking for things in it to keep it interesting. (Apart from rap songs ofc) As long as the lyrics of a song aren't "Friday"-tier bad I can deal with it. Edited January 17, 2014 by bacardimayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Id file structure melody under riff. How do you decide between the songs with similar structures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningBolt Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 OP asks for what's the most important of those in a first listen. On a first listen it's probably the riff, I guess? Maybe the vocals. In the long haul, I think I tend to come back most to songs with great lyrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Either one can kill a song for me. But only the sum of the parts can make the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacardimayne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Id file structure melody under riff.And you'd be wrong. The guitar riff (god I hate that word) is a convention of specific subgenres of rock music. Structure is constant in all forms of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskirose Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Riffs are for old people. Ban all old people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The vocal melody. Everything else is secondary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Personally, I always look for the background sex noises. Then everything else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Id file structure melody under riff.And you'd be wrong. The guitar riff (god I hate that word) is a convention of specific subgenres of rock music. Structure is constant in all forms of music.I'd say it was like a dynamic of a song, like a riff. For the purposes of this thread you chose Riff. no I see what you're saying. But really you pick the intro, verse, chorus, verse, chorus type structural element. I just go for songs with the word Fuck in them before that.Personally, I always look for the background sex noises. Then everything else.Profanity youse to mean much more to me than it does now. RiffVocalLyrics/profanitySolos can really helpStructure I like wacky structuresMelody i like a good tune as much as the next lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bumble's Bridge Pickup Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm with Johnny on this one. Structure/melody is far and away the most important element of a song. Vocals can make or break a song, but without structure/melody there is no song.Definitely not lyrics. I tend to not even pay attention to the lyrics of a song until I've overplayed the shit out of it and I'm looking for things in it to keep it interesting. (Apart from rap songs ofc) As long as the lyrics of a song aren't "Friday"-tier bad I can deal with it.Yeahh. I mean look at Nirvana. Fucking killer songs, yet the lyrics are just random garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Technically speaking a riff (on any instrument) is defined as a short melodic phrase. And they completly predate rock music. They were also very popular in blues and jazz music. Even though they are "melodic" they are not part of the melody, because they tend to be part of the rhythm. But that doesn't mean they are exclusivly rhythm or that they can not be part of the melody. Especially on piano or sax, they use "riffs" quite frequiently to harmonize with the lyrical melody. Back to the OP, trying to decide what is the most important part of a song is nearly impossiable. Because it changes with every song does it not? Sometimes it can be the vocals, other times it is the melody, and other times it can be the "riff". But typically I would say melody is the most important, just because its the catchiest part. But you usually need the rhythm before the melody, so without a solid rhythm you have nothing. So again, it's just too difficult to say what's most important.By the way, many songs don't even have a "riff". Edited January 17, 2014 by Mike420 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Riffs and rhythm, solos are expendable, lyrics are interchangeable...but riffs/rhythm, melody, thats kinda what the song is. Vocals are probably the least important. I mean, some songs don't even have vocals. Edited January 17, 2014 by sugaraylen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Riffs and rhythm, solos are expendable, lyrics are interchangeable...but riffs/rhythm, melody, thats kinda what the song is. Vocals are probably the least important. I mean, some songs don't even have vocals.Agreed. But I don't know if I would automatically include riffs, but for sake of argument, sure why not. But yes rhythm and melody are BY FAR the most important part. They go hand and hand together. 9 times out of 10, the rhythm comes first, but the melody makes it "catchy". You don't usually hum rhythms, but you do with melody's. Having a good ear for melody is huge, and many of you are correct. If the melody is great, the lyrics are not that important. But having said that, great lyrics do bring you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The riff in as much as it can help drive the rhythm along or accentuate its drive and just pure rhythm and melody ain't really a complete song as such, it waaaay bare bones that way but overall you're right, of the above mentioned riff is probably expendable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Don't get me wrong, they all go into making a great song. And sometimes the riff is the rhythm (like in many zeppelin songs) so if you take that out, it completely changes. But I just meant that at it's "bare bones" as you pointed out, the rhythm and melody are the most important. Take SCOM for example, you can completly eliminate the riff and still play the song (see Sheryl Crow). I'm not talking about the quality of that performance, but the song can still hold up minus the riff. You could even completly change the lyrics, as long as you keep the melody, and people would still enjoy it on some level. Not the same level as the original obviously, but someone somewhere would probably like it. But if you try and keep Slash's riff, but eliminate Izzy's rhythm, then you get some shitty youtube video that doesn't sound good. Plenty of them to choose from. Some guy will learn Slash's part and think he can play that song, but without that 2nd guitar playing rhythm it always sounds like shit. Which we have all seen those right? So clearly the rhythm IS more important than the riff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Rhythm is everything, Rhythm is what makes you move 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Len B'stard Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Y'know, with your kind of thinking Mike I'm suprised you don't like punk more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacca Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Riffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Y'know, with your kind of thinking Mike I'm suprised you don't like punk more.Ok Lenny, you asked for it, here is my long ass rant I like Punk, but I'm tradionalist. Which goes for all music, not just Punk. If it's real, honest, and just plain good, then I like it. But when pretenders or imitators enter the picture, that's when I move on. Which happens in all music, it's the business side trying to make money, which kills it imo. This is where rap and hip hop are at now, I used to love Pac and death row and all that, but Kanye West could fucking choke on his own tears and I could give a shit less. Because he's a pretender imo, but thats a different topic all together. And you have the people copying him, so it's just so fucking dilluted and fake. Pac is probably turning in his grave.I love the Sex Pistols, Ramones, Clash, and so on. You know the early stuff, the real stuff imo. I even really like the punk influence that was felt during the grunge era. I thought the early grunge bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and a few others, they really helped bring back that punk sound and spirit. It was good and original, gave it a 2nd life, which I really liked. But then we got to Green Day, then down to Blink 182, and so on. Now the whole "punk" scene is in the hands of these souless imitators with their emo influences, makes me want to hurl. How in the hell did we go from the Sex Pistols to Blink 182? It's a fucking travisty. I know their are probably some decent punk bands in the underground that I don't know about, but as a whole I think it's time to put some of these "pretend punk" bands to bed. I have my ear to the pavement trying to figure out what the next generation is into, and for the most part it seems like Blink 182's fucking shitty emo little brother. What the fuck happened to rock? I could go on a tyraid about metal also, but again thats a different topic.I don't mean to sound pretencious, but I'm a music fan first and and a musician second, and I can't figure out what the fuck happened? It seems like this younger generation either has completly shitty taste in music or the world is in desperate need of a revolution again. Which I tend to lean more towards the need of a revolution These kids want to rock, they just don't know how. They don't want to listen to the bands their parents did (which is understandable) so they latch on to these fucking pretenders because thats all they got. My band is currently working on our album, I don't know what will happen after it's release. I'm not going to say we are going to start a revolution, but I'm gonna God damn try. It's fucking time for musicans to take the music back. Bands like gnr are just plain to old to do it, sad but true. It has to be a new up and coming band, and I think we have the formula. I'm not saying we are as good as gnr or other "classic" acts, but we are better than all these pretenders. We have a female lead singer, who also plays rhythm guitar. Because I think the time of the great male frontman is over, at least for a while. But bitches can hit those high notes like Axl used to, and I can hit the low notes like every other cookie cutter male voice on the radio these days. But the beyond all that, the two main reasons why I think we have something, is one the songs. We are writing blues based hard rock songs, that are just plain fucking good and catchy. I can't take all the credit, our singer has an amazing ear for melody. And the second reason is my guitar honestly. I'm taking everything I learned from Page, Handrix, EVH, Slash and others and fucking kicking the audience in the balls with every solo. The crowd cheers everytime I play a solo. I have put other guitarists from my area on notice. Every show I see like 2 or 3 "rivals" in the crowd trying to steal my shit, lol. I maybe influnced by Page and others, but I have my own unique style, which is what sets me apart, and my band for that matter. We play shit that sounds "familiar" yet is completly new and original. Just like gnr did, they are my template. Try and be like them, all while being yourself. Will we make it? Who fucking knows? But we are different than every other band out there, I promise you that. I will post some links in "Nice Boys" when we are finished recording, Foxy and the Hounds will rise!!! At the end of the day I just wanted to make music that I love listening to. The stuff that used to get me excited as a kid/teen, the stuff that has (for the most part) become extinct. We have already exceeded my expectations on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 But a riff is an ancient melody? its like i was right for a while til you contradicted yourself, now im back to being a douche. Ill savour those 2 seconds of immortality. For moi its all ways been a riff. Then if they guy can sing we have a ball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron MikeyJ Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) But a riff is an ancient melody?A riff is defined as a short "melodic" phrase. It can be either melody or rhythm. Singers "riff" all the time. Think about Michael Jackson's "He He's" and or when Christina Aguilara or other female singers do those vocal runs, those are riffs, and completly melody. But in a song like YCBM the riff is the rhythm also. So yes it can be both. But not both at the same time, understand? Edited January 17, 2014 by Mike420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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