Comparing GNR live performances to other acts

[downzy]

PREAMBLE: So I don't go to a lot concerts. In the last 13 years my guess would be that I've been to 18 or 19 concerts, of which GNR represents 14 of those outings. So keep in mind as to why I started this thread.

Last night (err, Thursday, February 6th), I went to go see Elton John perform at the Air Canada Centre here in Toronto. It was the first non-GNR concert I had seen since Pearl Jam in 2011 and Radiohead in 2008.

Having seen GNR so many times in the last 13 or 14 years (14 times between 2002 and 2011), it surprises me how different an experience it is seeing other acts. I figured I'd start at thread talking about how those who mostly see GNR concerts feel when attending concerts by other artists.

With respect to Elton, the ticket said the show started at 8:00. I'm not kidding when I say that I'm so conditioned by GNR's late start that I thought if my girlfriend and I showed up a half hour late we'd still be extremely early. We walked through the ticket gates at 8:20 and Elton was just hitting the stage, opening with Love Lies Bleeding. By the time we got to our seats (around 8:19), the song was just coming to an end. I couldn't believe that I had missed the opening of the show. I thought to myself, if this were a GNR concert we would have another three hours of waiting (the last three times GNR played the ACC they hit the stage between 11:30 and midnight). It started to dawn on me why so many people in the audience lose their shit when they wait for Axl to hit the stage. I always stroll in around 10:45 or 11:00 (usually liquored up). But if I had to wait 3 hours for anyone to play, regardless of whether they were my favourite band or artist, I would be mighty pissed.

A second thought came to me half way through the concert, which was that I'm loving the song selection by Elton. Nothing but hits. Very few deep cuts. He even made a joke about new material: "I wanted to play a new song, but it would be a waste of time because you really don't want to hear them." Again, this made me realize that for all we bitch and complain about stale set lists, having been to an act in which I've never seen or follow on the Internet, it was nice to hear all the songs I wanted and not wade through any new material I was unfamiliar with. I suppose you can say this is obvious - it is something I have thought of before - but having now experienced a concert where I'm unfamiliar with the setlist I don't begrudge GNR for playing the hits and foregoing newer material. That said, Elton has a massive back catalogue with enough hits to play multiple nights, whereas Axl only has three and a half albums (I count Lies as a half album) to draw from.

On the flip side, those of you who boast about GNR's two and a half to three hour setlists should perhaps keep in mind that Elton, a month away from being 67 years old, played for two and a half hours. And that's a true two-and-a-half hours. No solos, no running backstage, and no jam sessions that clog up twenty to thirty minutes of a GNR show. The only solo was Elton performing "The One" by himself on the piano, sans backing of his band (which was probably the best song of the night). True, Elton definitely drops the key of most songs to help his voice, and yes he's not prancing around on stage (as he's seated most of the time at the piano), but it made me realize that I'd rather hear all the songs performed by the artist I came to see and hear than a three hour marathon in which the artist I'm there for breaks through a lot of it.

Getting back to Elton performing "The One" by himself, I really wish Axl would do something like this. Granted, he gets out there and does his little piano intro prior to November Rain, but Elton's performance by himself made me wish Axl could do something similar. I'm not sure there's a song that Axl could perform on his own with the piano (perhaps This I Love, or November Rain), but having him up there alone performing a GNR song on his own and in its entirety would make for an incredible moment.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask if anyone else attends concerts and compares them to their live GNR experiences. Seeing Elton last night made me appreciate GNR's shows a bit more but also made me realize how they could be better. I wonder if anyone else has the same thoughts when seeing other artists. If so, what artists and how so?

EDIT: for those interested, here's a professional review of the Elton John concert I attended: http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/2014/02/07/elton_john_still_rocks_just_with_a_little_less_falsetto.html

Edited February 8, 2014 by downzy

[gnfnrs1972]

Axl being late has hurt his touring career and maybe some cd sales imo. But as a performer he is my favorite. I actually like him for giving his band mates time to shine. He did it with the old line up so why not these guys. I knew what to expect about the lateness but it still got on my nerves and people around were bitchin about it. I saw Frank and Pitman at a restaraunt before the show and half joking asked them if Axl had shown up yet.

[Amir]

Saw Springsteen for the first time last June and was blown away. I was a casual fan at the first show, so I was lost for first 10 songs or so when he was taking sign requests, but when he played Darkness on the Edge of Town from start to finish, I was won over. And then another 10 songs after that. Seen him 2 times since, the guy is phenomenal. That said, I'd rate the 2010 Axl shows I went to, specifically the London and Paris ones, above him, just because I'm such a big Axl/GNR fan.

Kanye West only played an hour and a half when I saw him, but I loved it. Temperamental and petulant in old-skool Axl style, him screaming and dropping the mike for the last song was one of the best things I'd ever seen. Saw him at the Hammersmith Apollo, pretty small venue, crowd was insane.

My dad's seen a lot of acts, came with me to both Abu Dhabi gigs, he loved both. He preferred the 2013 one because he said Axl interacted with the crowd more, whereas for me that was the lesser show by far since Axl's voice was so weak. Dad was happy they played all the hits, and was a fan of TIL too. That said, even he was surprised they were still playing Another Brick in the Wall more than 2 years later.

He came to see Metallica with me a month after that in April 2013, we were both amazed at how at the same venue there were twice as many people; people came from Egypt, Iran, Saudi, Oman... They actually came on 20 mins later than GNR did! But they were very professional, was a well-oiled machine. My dad couldn't decide between the 2 shows, but in 2013 Metallica were way better that GNR in my opinion.

Seen Slash twice, great shows, his show in 2012 was better than the 2012 GNR shows I saw, with the exception of the Atlantic City gig.

Rolling Stones at Hyde Park was a bit disappointing, but apparently that was one of their lesser shows.

Powerage is right about Iron Maiden, the guys put on a hell of a show. That said, I was surprised they do the exact same setlist for the length of a tour. Understandable somewhat with all the stage production for each tour, but still. A lot shorter than a GNR show, but less faffing about, and still a good number of songs (17, I think).

Best act I saw when I went to see GNR at EXIT in 2012 was... Duran Duran. Seriously. I thought it would be a good laugh, but Simon Le Bon and co. really gave it their all, was seriously impressed.

Arcade Fire put on a good show when I saw them at EXIT in 2011 and when I saw them in November as "The Reflektors". I really liked all the video screen stuff at the former gig and the big band thing, and the intimacy and gimmicks of the latter were cool, too. Highlight of EXIT 2011 was Pulp, Jarvis Cocker really knows how to work a stage.

I'd like to see Elton John at some point.

I saw W.A.S.P. back in 2009, loved it. Blackie Lawless apologised at one point because he said he had flu and felt like he was "ripping you guys off", but I still had a great time.

Avenged Sevenfold kicked ass when I saw them open for Iron Maiden. M. Shadows is the closest thing I've seen to Axl from his generation.

I'm considering getting tickets to see Lady Gaga in October. Wish I'd seen her last September, the opener was The Darkness! Also gutted I'm not in London to see Prince's intimate shows, but I doubt I'd have gotten in.

tl;dr: 2010 Axl shows still my favourite, but other shows awesome, too.

[Broskirose]

I've never really compared shows in my mind, so it's hard to say, but it's quite possible that I enjoyed the two NIN shows I've seen more than the two best GNR shows I've seen. Keep in mind the following: I've seen GNR front row center at Roseland Ballroom, and front row at what is considered the best 2012 gig (Philly). For the NIN shows I was in seats at the back of the arena and quite ill, suffering from an absolute bitch case of akathisia.

The fact that I can't decisively say that I enjoyed GNR more, says a lot...

Really though, it's not hard to find better live bands than GNR. I mean, I guess it's cool to see Axl live but it's not really a big deal to most people outside these forums.

[jonah]

I just saw Buckcherry tonight and when I entered I asked the ticket taker what time they were to hit the stage and he said 10:15, sure enough at 10:14 the lights went out. So being on time definetly helps with the fans. Respect your fans and they will respect you.

Axl will always be the best entertainer even if his voice is 50/50. A lot of guys just stand there and sing and don't put on much of a show, Axl is at least trying to entertain everyone. I wish they would cut the solos down to about 90 seconds each instead of 4 minutes, and it's not really the solos but the jams that bug me. I understand they have to pull the piano out now and then but I don't need a 4 minute interlude for that. Axl should be saying how are you tonight to the audience while that is happening.

The 2nd greatest act I've seen is probably Alice Cooper, Still puts on an amazing show at his age. Shinedown would probably be 3rd, I didn't like them from what I heard on the radio but they have some great tunes that don't get airplay. And the singer sounds better live then on cd.

You'll never get a better show then Axl, but you will get bands who are more organized and professional and as long as you like the bands you will enjoy yourself

[magisme]

Axl is my favorite, so I'll probably always spend more money and more time seeing him than anyone else, but, if one were to step back from fanboyism and have a look at the factors that go into a great live show, NuNuNu just doesn't stack up against other good live acts.

[Guest Len B'stard]

In the last 6 or 7 years the memorable gigs i been to are:

The Stooges - Hammersmith

PiL - about 4 or 5 times all over London, Brixton, Kentish Town, Hammersmith, Londons Heaven which is a famous gay club underneath Charring Cross Station

Snoop - Kentish Town Forum

The Stone Roses - Heaton Park, Manchester

The Sex Pistols - Brixton

Leonard Cohen - Wembley Arena

Others too but i can't fuckin' remember em now. All of em were better than Guns n Roses...except Leonard Cohen although in Leonards defence i was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too pissed to make a decent appraisal.

[Amir]

Leonard Cohen was amazing when I saw him in Manchester! One of the best gigs I went to last year, or any year, over 3 hours, all the hits and more, really enthusiastic, joking with the crowd, what a guy. Almost finished reading the biography I'm Your Man, great stuff.

[Pinball Wizard]

Attending concerts is something I do very often. Last year I saw Sebastian Bach twice, Gilby Clarke, Metallica, Alice in Chains, Rob Zombie, Aerosmith and Whitesnake (also twice). I also like to go to non-rock concerts, like Joss Stone (I love that girl!), Dave Matthews and Maroon 5.

Every concert is a different kind of experience for me- not just compared to GNR. But even with some late starts, nothing, I mean NOTHING, compares to the excitement there is in a GNR gig. The only band that has made me feel as pumped up as if I were in a GNR concert is Aerosmith. They put on a GREAT show, but their audience sucks monkey balls, and it ends up messing with my concert experience a little bit...I mean...It kills my vibe a little bit when I see people losing their shit to "Jaded" or any of their "girly rock songs" and five minutes later they have no clue of what is "Back in the Saddle", "Kings and Queens", "Train Kept a rolling" or "Mama Kin". GNR, on the other hand, has people losing their shit from "Chinese" to "Paradise"...it's insane!

I've been to a hell lot of concerts in my life (Ozzy, Black Label Society, Queen, Faith No More, Judas Priest, Metallica, Aerosmith, Bach...) and none of those bands have an audience as rowdy as GNR's. And it makes a HUGE difference when you want to compare the live experiences thing...

As far as the band itself, I still think GNR is a step ahead of most of them. Sometimes we like to bash the band or axl for "not being in a good shape", but I don't see all of those other acts bringing their A game all the time either...

Edited February 8, 2014 by Pinball Wizard

[Guest Len B'stard]

I had a fuckin' identity crisis at the Cohen show. I went in right, proper tanked up off my tits, didn't know no one into Cohen so I'm on my own so I'm thinkin' fuck it I'll go in mullered. So i go grab by seat end up sitting next to this old man and his bird, get to talking, find out he was involved with The Slits so i'm chatting to this bloke and it's cool and suddenly he starts appearing a bit uptight. Now bear in mind I was pretty fairly fucked at this point. So i turn to the bloke next to me and he's this massive fuckin' whiteboy with long hair and a cowboy hat on, i get talkin' to him and he's from Czech Republic and he's in LOVE with this computer game called Final Fantasy and just starts talking at me about it, how it's great, how its a work of art, how his life revolves around it and I'm sitting there, 3 songs into the gig, i look to my left, old git and his missus, i look to my right, massive fuckin' Eastern European computer game nerds thats a few sandwiches sort of a picnic...think fuck it, this ain't my scene got up and fucked off

Ridiculous judgement but to be honest i was up to my eyeballs in vodka, total waste of time and money actually, only sat through three songs. I should've had a spliff or something instead but i ended up pounding the booze and was feeling fuckin' hype and it ends up I'm sitting down watching this really old man strum a guitar and i was thinkin' like, I better fuckin' get out of here before i get on a chair and pull my willy out or something Nah, I'd never do that, i just was just too tanked to be sitting down and quietly listening to the performance, it weren't gonna happen.

So yeah, point being, it's more a reflection of me and my state at the time than Leonard.

[Amir]

Christ, what on earth did you spend all that money for?!

Tried to get tickets for Lady Gaga this morning, didn't happen, had about 5 different tabs open and everything. Probably for the best, might stick out a bit in the crowd of teenage girls and flamboyant men. Still, would love to see her some time, seems to put on a hell of a show (and has a nice bum, too ).

[Guest Len B'stard]

I know, stupid innit?

[Amir]

Cousin of mine said he got really wasted before seeing GNR in Toronto in 2006. Said he was whooping and hollering for a few songs after they came on, but after about half an hour was wondering when they were gonna play the hits. His mates duly informed him that the man on stage was not Axl Rose, but Sebastian Bach.

[Axl_morris]

Well most bands finish there set before Guns would even take the stage. It's the worst part about being a GNR fan is the wait. Especially if you are standing and want to get fairly close to the front and you already qued outside.

London 2012 (not the filmed one) was the longest GNR show i'd been to. 3hrs.15 minutes. I don't think many other bands would play that length. I know people say "yeah but axl isn't on stage for about 40 minutes of that". Well, you went to see Elton John. This is GUNS N ROSES, not the Axl Rose solo project. That's why the band get some more time. You are still getting two and half hours of Axl time.

[Amir]

London 2012 was a bit disappointing, though I'm glad I got to see Izzy. They didn't come on until after 10:30 both nights! I'm pretty sure they came on just after 9:30 after the shows in 2010, and those were the best shows I've ever seen. I mean, they didn't come on until 00:15 at Atlantic City, but I was fine with that because doors opened at 9pm, opening band came on at 10 or so, only an hour between them and GNR.

[Axl_morris]

London 2012 was a bit disappointing, though I'm glad I got to see Izzy. They didn't come on until after 10:30 both nights! I'm pretty sure they came on just after 9:30 after the shows in 2010, and those were the best shows I've ever seen. I mean, they didn't come on until 00:15 at Atlantic City, but I was fine with that because doors opened at 9pm, opening band came on at 10 or so, only an hour between them and GNR.

Well I look forward to the London 2014 shows, and hearing the 3 new unheard, unplayed songs

[Guest NGOG]

Nothing has topped the GNR gig I attended in 2010. Extremely enthusiastic band, and Axl seemed absolutely determined to make a statement in the wake of Reading. They did a raise-the-hairs-on-your-neck rendition of Madagascar.

While the 2012 show I caught wasn't bad by any means, it just wasn't the same. Bumblefoot, given the car accident and lack of studio time, wasn't as into it. A lifestyle of constant drinking had taken its toll on Tommy. Dj's Hogan ears/walking into the crowd weren't anywhere as charming as when he first joined the band. Axl wasn't as vocally sound as he'd been during 2010. I have to say though, playing TWAT was an extremely appreciated gesture. I closed my eyes during that solo.

[Amir]

Madgascar in 2010 was unbelievable, hard to listen to the album version after the epic screams he added in live versions that year (same with Sorry).

for getting TWAT on your 2nd show, 12 fucking gigs and I still haven't heard my favourite song!

[Guest NGOG]

for getting TWAT on your 2nd show, 12 fucking gigs and I still haven't heard my favourite song!

[DieselDaisy]

I had a fuckin' identity crisis at the Cohen show. I went in right, proper tanked up off my tits, didn't know no one into Cohen so I'm on my own so I'm thinkin' fuck it I'll go in mullered. So i go grab by seat end up sitting next to this old man and his bird, get to talking, find out he was involved with The Slits so i'm chatting to this bloke and it's cool and suddenly he starts appearing a bit uptight. Now bear in mind I was pretty fairly fucked at this point. So i turn to the bloke next to me and he's this massive fuckin' whiteboy with long hair and a cowboy hat on, i get talkin' to him and he's from Czech Republic and he's in LOVE with this computer game called Final Fantasy and just starts talking at me about it, how it's great, how its a work of art, how his life revolves around it and I'm sitting there, 3 songs into the gig, i look to my left, old git and his missus, i look to my right, massive fuckin' Eastern European computer game nerds thats a few sandwiches sort of a picnic...think fuck it, this ain't my scene got up and fucked off

Ridiculous judgement but to be honest i was up to my eyeballs in vodka, total waste of time and money actually, only sat through three songs. I should've had a spliff or something instead but i ended up pounding the booze and was feeling fuckin' hype and it ends up I'm sitting down watching this really old man strum a guitar and i was thinkin' like, I better fuckin' get out of here before i get on a chair and pull my willy out or something Nah, I'd never do that, i just was just too tanked to be sitting down and quietly listening to the performance, it weren't gonna happen.

So yeah, point being, it's more a reflection of me and my state at the time than Leonard.

I learnt my experience of being too drunk at a Dylan concert I went to. Just could not be arsed with the show in the end - when you are that drunk, it does not matter if Elvis is up there, you just think, ''fuck that, I want to chase some birds mate''. Ended up nearly walking into the female toilets and almost getting on the wrong bus coming back (I would have ended up in Sunderland or some crap hole). Luckily I had seen Dylan twice before, but, I learnt from experience and now never get drunk. When I saw Kiss by the way in the Arena there was a guy passed out drunk in the seating area on the stairs; everyone was stepping over him!

On the flip side, I hate being completely sober for shows. I have to have at least three pints as a loosener. I am too reserved and 'English' to feel I can start bopping along, headbanging or singing, sober. Americans can do that stuff but I cannot.

Saw Crazy Horse last year and it was probably the greatest show I have ever seen. Axl was great in 2006, less so in 2012.

[Amir]

When was KISS last in the UK? They're on my list of bands to see that I haven't seen yet.

Wanted to see Neil Young at the August show but that got cancelled because one of the Crazy Horse guys had an injury :/

I'm always stone-cold sober for shows, only time I wish I'd had a drink was for Kavinsky, was clear everyone else was off their face, though I did lose my shit when he played an extended version of the intro to YCBM.

[John Bonham]

Phish plays for 3-4 hours every night.

They've never done the same setlist twice.

They've never played the same song the same way twice.

They play about 40 shows a year (every year).

They have about 350 songs that they've only ever played once!

They play about 20 songs per show.

Every ticket includes a FREE MP3 download of that show, available about an hour after they play the last note.

They have catalog of about 750 different songs that they play.

They are still touring with their original lineup, and they charge only a fraction ($50) for a ticket of what Axl charges.

[Tom2112]

I get the same buzz going to see most bands, I would also say that I probably enjoy the other bands sets more. I love GnR and Axl is my favourite singer/performer but, the set is too dragged out (one too many solos, costume change etc.) and it looses it's momentum in the middle of the show, it then slowly picks up again. I think the GnR set would be much stronger with a little less jamming and focus on individual members, Axl needs his breaks but he doesn't need 40 minutes in a 3hr show, not many other singers need to take breaks that length.

[Amir]

Phish plays for 3-4 hours every night.

They've never done the same setlist twice.

They've never played the same song the same way twice.

They play about 40 shows a year (every year).

They have about 350 songs that they've only ever played once!

They play about 20 songs per show.

Every ticket includes a FREE MP3 download of that show, available about an hour after they play the last note.

They have catalog of about 750 different songs that they play.

They are still touring with their original lineup, and they charge only a fraction ($50) for a ticket of what Axl charges.

Not saying GNR can't improve in a lot of those areas (see earlier comment about 12 shows and no TWAT), but it's almost an apples to oranges comparison. Phish are a jam rock band, and nowhere near as popular as GNR. People threw enough of a fit when Finck added his own solos to GNR songs; most people in the audience want to hear SCOM, PC, etc. like they are on the album. And Phish couldn't sell as many tickets as GNR at a higher price point (though admittedly GNR seem to be struggling with that in the US now). Like, I really want to see Pearl Jam live, but it's a bit offputting to know there's a good chance I won't hear songs like Black (though I'll still go see them first chance I get).

Ideally, I think GNR would play 4 AFD songs, 4 UYI songs, 4 CD songs, a couple of covers, and some new songs. They regularly play 20+ songs a show.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Amir

[John Bonham]

Phish are a jam rock band, and nowhere near as popular as GNR.

um... In the United States, Phish headlines festivals with 100,000 attendees, where THEY ARE THE ONLY BAND ON THE BILL.

Edit: Phish also completely sells-out 4 consecutive nights at Madison Square Garden in NY City every single December.

Edited February 8, 2014 by John Bonham