Vocals for new album, what should we expect?

[Rdeyahlxp]

I hope they're like the Big Daddy version of SCOM, always enjoy that version more than the original.

[Jordan Rose]

Given what he did on Angel Down in 2008, especially on Stuck Inside which I think is superior to literally everything on Chinese, and given how awesome he sounds on the raspy re-recorded This I Love, I think he's going to sound absolutely fucking awesome on the next record.

From the way he stepped up his vocals in 2006-2010 and from the angry-skeleton-Mickey t-shirt I think he has taken the clean-voice criticisms to heart and I wouldn't be surprised if he scaled back the clean vocals massively.

I don't dislike the totally clean vocals on the album versions of IRS and Catcher etc but after listening to Catcher and IRS from 2010 the album versions just sound so weak.

Since he re-recorded This I Love with full, 2010-level rasp (and MSL says the chorus is one-layered, full rasp) i'd take a guess that any old songs like Atlas, Thyme, General etc that he may have recorded with clean vocals 10+ years ago may be updated with more raspy vocals.

[D-GenerationX]

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

I share this same concern.

[Naupis]

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

I share this same concern.

The solution is to stop being like Britney Spears then and record vocals that can actually be replicated live. He's a big fraud if he keeps recording shit using all sorts of computerized shit to make his voice something its not.

[Silent Jay]

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

Pretty sure the final version of IRS is from 2006.

I have the 99' to prove it.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Silent Jay

[Jordan Rose]

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

I share this same concern.

The solution is to stop being like Britney Spears then and record vocals that can actually be replicated live. He's a big fraud if he keeps recording shit using all sorts of computerized shit to make his voice something its not.

Sorry, but don't agree with that at all. He clearly used some vocal manipulation for effect but not to enhance his range or depth. With the exception of Twat, Rhiad and Scraped there isn't a vocal on CD that he hasn't completely blown out of the water live at some point.

And range isn't really an issue because he can hit any note he wants to live using his clean head voice/falsetto. The issue with Twat, like Locomotive, is that there's no room to breathe. The issue with Scraped is that he's really pushing himself hard across the whole of his range. The Twat verses and Scraped chorus also sit in that really uncomfortable mid-range where he seems to have no power. Even in 2010 he struggled with the Scraped chorus. He can sing the Twat high notes all day long in clean head voice, just like he can do the high parts in Heaven's Door.

The problem isn't too much pro-tools trickery, it's that he pushes himself to his limits to do insane shit like the Stuck Inside scream in the studio and he'll never be able to reproduce that live. He never even goes for the IRS scream in the original key.

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

Pretty sure the final version of IRS is from 2006.

I have the 99' to prove it.

The take is absolutely identical. You can even hear it's the same on the Trunk 2003 leak.

[IncitingChaos]

These are the voices he does well now. I feel like he tries too hard to make every line a ear screeching vocal..these voices work though, so I wouldn't mind seeing a few songs with this voice incorporated.

Edited December 15, 2014 by IncitingChaos

[Silent Jay]

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

I share this same concern.

The solution is to stop being like Britney Spears then and record vocals that can actually be replicated live. He's a big fraud if he keeps recording shit using all sorts of computerized shit to make his voice something its not.

Sorry, but don't agree with that at all. He clearly used some vocal manipulation for effect but not to enhance his range or depth. With the exception of Twat, Rhiad and Scraped there isn't a vocal on CD that he hasn't completely blown out of the water live at some point.

And range isn't really an issue because he can hit any note he wants to live using his clean head voice/falsetto. The issue with Twat, like Locomotive, is that there's no room to breathe. The issue with Scraped is that he's really pushing himself hard across the whole of his range. The Twat verses and Scraped chorus also sit in that really uncomfortable mid-range where he seems to have no power. Even in 2010 he struggled with the Scraped chorus. He can sing the Twat high notes all day long in clean head voice, just like he can do the high parts in Heaven's Door.

The problem isn't too much pro-tools trickery, it's that he pushes himself to his limits to do insane shit like the Stuck Inside scream in the studio and he'll never be able to reproduce that live. He never even goes for the IRS scream in the original key.

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

Pretty sure the final version of IRS is from 2006.

I have the 99' to prove it.

The take is absolutely identical. You can even hear it's the same on the Trunk 2003 leak.

Which one is the trunk leak?

I have like 5 different versions of IRS...

[Jordan Rose]

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

I share this same concern.

The solution is to stop being like Britney Spears then and record vocals that can actually be replicated live. He's a big fraud if he keeps recording shit using all sorts of computerized shit to make his voice something its not.

Sorry, but don't agree with that at all. He clearly used some vocal manipulation for effect but not to enhance his range or depth. With the exception of Twat, Rhiad and Scraped there isn't a vocal on CD that he hasn't completely blown out of the water live at some point.

And range isn't really an issue because he can hit any note he wants to live using his clean head voice/falsetto. The issue with Twat, like Locomotive, is that there's no room to breathe. The issue with Scraped is that he's really pushing himself hard across the whole of his range. The Twat verses and Scraped chorus also sit in that really uncomfortable mid-range where he seems to have no power. Even in 2010 he struggled with the Scraped chorus. He can sing the Twat high notes all day long in clean head voice, just like he can do the high parts in Heaven's Door.

The problem isn't too much pro-tools trickery, it's that he pushes himself to his limits to do insane shit like the Stuck Inside scream in the studio and he'll never be able to reproduce that live. He never even goes for the IRS scream in the original key.

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

Pretty sure the final version of IRS is from 2006.

I have the 99' to prove it.

The take is absolutely identical. You can even hear it's the same on the Trunk 2003 leak.

Which one is the trunk leak?

I have like 5 different versions of IRS...

Not to a be a douche but

https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1DSGP_enGB481GB481&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=irs%20guns%202003%20trunk%20leak

Every leaked version of every song from Chinese has the exact same core lead vocal, including IRS. The only one that i'm aware that had parts of the lead vocal re-done was the outro of The Blues. The second chorus of Better was edited from 'I know you know you're no Better' to the same as the first chorus but that probably was editing, not new vocals.

The only Chinese lead vocal that has been re-done is This I Love from the remix album.

Yes, they continued to work on the songs over the years to the point of completely re-recording the whole instrumental or the whole drum parts or whatever but the lead vocals from the 1999 songs are the same vocals on the album and its as plain as day. They're not even a different take from the same session, they're absolutely identical and i'm perplexed as to why people can't hear that just by listening to them side by side.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Jordan Rose

[Mendez]

Every leaked version of every song from Chinese has the exact same core lead vocal, including IRS. The only one that i'm aware that had parts of the lead vocal re-done was the outro of The Blues. The second chorus of Better was edited from 'I know you know you're no Better' to the same as the first chorus but that probably was editing, not new vocals.

The only Chinese lead vocal that has been re-done is This I Love from the remix album.

Yes, they continued to work on the songs over the years to the point of completely re-recording the whole thing or the whole drum parts or whatever but the lead vocals from the 1999 songs are the same vocals on the album and its as plain as day. They're not even a different take from the same session, they're absolutely identical and i'm perplexed as to why people can't hear that just by listening to them side by side.

The leak of CD (the song) has the original lyric "Like if your ass with your head, you can tell" (or something like that) instead of the final one "while their arms reach out for your help". I think that was possibly the only rerecord because the lyrics before that ("you think you got it all locked up inside...") are all double tracked in the lower register parts, but that lyric isn't.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Mendez

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, that 'IRS' vocal never changed.

'Catcher', same thing. I actaually think that hurts it on the album version. Ron's guitar sounds way louder in the mix.

[BreakDown2014]

Probably the high vocals on the title track were done in 2006-2007, but it's just a guess. Apart from that it's really hard to find other significant differences betweent the leaks and the final versions

[Jordan Rose]

Good shout on Chinese, Mendez. The 2006 sessions were obviously more to do with the music than the vocals.

[MrSoftie]

I wouldn't expect a new album. That was your first mistake.

This. There is no new album. Axl may record music but he'll never release it.

Of course there is a "new" album. It will be new to us anyway. To deny it's real and is going to come out is silly. You're silly maynard. He'll be late as usual, but he'll release it.

Of course there is "new music", it would be new to us anyway. To believe it's going to come out is silly. You're silly Rovim. He'll keep touring and playing his hits as usual, and will never release new music.

You're a poo poo head chinese 2 will rock you like a hurricane. Again.

I wouldn't expect a new album. That was your first mistake.

This. There is no new album. Axl may record music but he'll never release it.

Anyone who says otherwise is clearly nuts.

Shit... can't say shit to you now. Bulletproof argument you've got there. I'm clearly insane.

What argument? You can say shit to me anytime.

[seagullview]

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

I'm really looking forward to hearing the 'high, piercing, screaming' vocals on The General.

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

Madagascar vocals were recorded in 2006

Richard Abowitz of the Los Angeles Times reports: Next month will mark two years since audio engineer Mark Gray, 31, dropped by the studio at the Palms to say goodbye to his co-workers before departing for a vacation. His boss asked him if he would be willing to come back early to do some just-booked sessions. "I went from 'no way,'" he recalls, "to changing my plane ticket right away." All it took to change his mind is what the sessions were for recording. And, on Dec. 27, 2006, Gray found himself one of the many engineers to be connected to the legendary GUNS N' ROSES disc "Chinese Democracy".

Axl Rose arrived at the Palms Studio inside the resort and worked for 13 days in 2006 on his vocals for the finally released disc. Gray recalls a list of 14 songs (the same number as on the released version) many with working titles. Among those Rose worked on at Palms Studio he is sure are on the disc are "Chinese Democracy", "Madagascar" and "Prostitute".

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-n-roses-engineer-talks-about-recording-process-for-chinese-democracy/#Lldh8TDtYxzftD8v.99

No.

Pitman told the specific story of Axl recording the lead vocal in 1999. It's the exact same vocal you can hear in the Boston 2002 promo. In 2006 he probably worked on backgrounds. The Blues vocals were also done by 2002 and can be heard in the Boston clip but, like the live version, he hadn't finished the lyrics for the final part. He added 'What'd I tell you...One more failure' etc in 2006. You can hear the transition quite clearly, especially on the isolated audio stems.

It says he 'worked on' those titles. You really think he hadn't laid down vocals for the title track until December 2006?! Prostitute is a Bucket song and he'd left in 2004!

Boston 2002 promo:

He left IRS, Madagascar and Catcher intact between 1999 and 2008 because he sang them the way he wanted to at the time and had no reason to change them.

I'm really looking forward to hearing the 'high, piercing, screaming' vocals on The General.

But it bothers me that there will probably be many more songs like Twat and Prostitute that he'll almost never sing live because they're brutal.

Madagascar vocals were recorded in 2006

Richard Abowitz of the Los Angeles Times reports: Next month will mark two years since audio engineer Mark Gray, 31, dropped by the studio at the Palms to say goodbye to his co-workers before departing for a vacation. His boss asked him if he would be willing to come back early to do some just-booked sessions. "I went from 'no way,'" he recalls, "to changing my plane ticket right away." All it took to change his mind is what the sessions were for recording. And, on Dec. 27, 2006, Gray found himself one of the many engineers to be connected to the legendary GUNS N' ROSES disc "Chinese Democracy".

Axl Rose arrived at the Palms Studio inside the resort and worked for 13 days in 2006 on his vocals for the finally released disc. Gray recalls a list of 14 songs (the same number as on the released version) many with working titles. Among those Rose worked on at Palms Studio he is sure are on the disc are "Chinese Democracy", "Madagascar" and "Prostitute".

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/guns-n-roses-engineer-talks-about-recording-process-for-chinese-democracy/#Lldh8TDtYxzftD8v.99

I think Madagascar was done by '00, you can hear clips on the CD 2002 promos, and Beavan said most of the tracks he worked with Axl on, the vocals were exactly the same on the album as they were back in '99/'00. CD, though, I can see him adding the raspy vocals in 2006.

Hah, Jordan Rose saved me the time to find the YT link.

Fair enough. I just went by your "intact", so just wanted to point out that he had "worked" on them later.

[wasted]

I guess similar to CD but then maybe a few new vocals. Hopefully like The Seeker or something just simple rawk vocals. Lets kill rasp. Rasp the rasp out of the rasp. Fuck rasp.

[ludurigan]

if i was axl I would use my low voice and my talking voice, they are still very intact

[Rovim]

I guess similar to CD but then maybe a few new vocals. Hopefully like The Seeker or something just simple rawk vocals. Lets kill rasp. Rasp the rasp out of the rasp. Fuck rasp.

It would have been worse if Axl never sang on Angel Down. I think Axl doesn't want to limit himself in the studio just to put out an album with the same approach. His vocals were pretty high pitchy on Appetite. (he kinda did the AFD thing in Riad, his vocal tone is close) It's not like rasp was ever the one tool or natural effect he used on his voice.

Chinese has many great Axl tones with tailor made vocal suits to every song. I don't agree with it everytime, like I'd want rasp on I.R.S just because Axl did it that way live too or how more clean vocals make Madagascar sound or Street Of Dreams, but I see Axl's ability to choose exactly how he wants to sing like from an arsenal instead of that chester from linkin' park which has like 2 fuckin' modes: I'm calm and I'm mad more like an advantage, at least in the studio, it's more versatile and cleaner tones for his vocals fit songs like Catcher and some parts of Better. He mixed the rasp with the high clean vocals in Better and found a really cool balance between the 2, only using rasp in specific places where it was needed and the clean vocals to end the vocal phrase.

It's not like Cornell can do that: he has one really great tone, and that's mainly it. With Axl, you can still have vintage rasp like on Angel Down (high gain) but also whatever the song inspires Axl to sound like which is great.

I don't care how different it is from how he sang on Illusions. Just make it fit and make it sound just as great as Chinese, which I think it will be. All cautions made.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Rovim

[wasted]

One side of me enjoys CD vocal variety. Whether its Shacklers or Madagascar. It makes sense each song has been fully indulged. So if its CD II then yeah.

But then also is like to hear some more Lies style stuff just Axl singing an easy song and ripping on it vocal well within his range. Showboating basically like he does on The Seeker.

Like ITW is out of this world vocally. But nobody gives a shit and its hard to do live so they don't play. So it's kind of cool and perfect for a movie and at the same time it's sad for the material not to get the credit it deserves.

I'm a whore, to see people not whoring to they full potential is kind of depressing to me. A few classic rock covers would really sell the record, a hard rocker with a rasp vocal after a day of tequila shots would really go down well with the fan base.

Edited December 16, 2014 by wasted

[Rovim]

One side of me enjoys CD vocal variety. Whether its Shacklers or Madagascar. It makes sense each song has been fully indulged. So if its CD II then yeah.

But then also is like to hear some more Lies style stuff just Axl singing an easy song and ripping on it vocal well within his range. Showboating basically like he does on The Seeker.

Like ITW is out of this world vocally. But nobody gives a shit and its hard to do live so they don't play. So it's kind of cool and perfect for a movie and at the same time it's sad for the material not to get the credit it deserves.

I'm a whore, to see people not whoring to they full potential is kind of depressing to me. A few classic rock covers would really sell the record, a hard rocker with a rasp vocal after a day of tequila shots would really go down well with the fan base.

I'm more of a pimp. I do want like a new You Could Be Mine. I think people enjoy to mock if it sounds too different from what they loved so much for so many years, and like...only Axl can provide that but he doesn't. But he provided something else that is of very high quality and yes...his If The World vocals are a highlight. It's not like you can achieve that with just his old approach. It's not like something like his Better vocals can be achieved with close minded don't fix it if it ain't broke approach.

Sometimes I like to be close minded, but it takes you to a different place artistically. Axl was always the kind of musician that searched in himself new ways to reach that divine moment when you know you wrote a classic, but you didn't write something dated or one of your old songs again or a watered down version of one of your old songs which means to us imo: as long as it says Guns N' Roses on the cover, we're going to get Axl's quirks, more styles which are new to Guns, copy/pasting the shit out of it cause I wanna, melting pot the fuck out of it but still make it sound fresh, timeless and Guns-esque. I don't mind that. I just feel sorry for the live shows or the tour behind CD lll.

How long can Axl do the 8 years, 10 years cycle? tour? new album every 8 years best case scenario. He'll be 60 in a few years from now. What about dignity?

Studio wise we're set though, and he's still young enough to do a good CD ll tour for like 5 years. Not bad. 8 years if Vegas exclusive. Give him a rocking chair or something for Jungle acoustic. You know it's going to rock.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Rovim

[magisme]

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[Jordan Rose]

Great posts, Rovim. Really enjoyed reading that.

I totally agree that it wouldn't even occur to him to compromise in the studio just in order to be able to replicate stuff live.

And I don't think he's beyond going strong into his 60s with selective use of rasp. Contrary to what too many people on here keep repeating, all the evidence suggests he hasn't 'lost' his voice since 2011 (or in 2001-2002 or whatever the fuck) but the way he sings live is a reflection of his mental state.

[Strange Broue]

This is a subject where i'm completely unsure and had no stable idea

He may use most of the recorded vocal tracks from the earlier sessions, but since we don't know what songs in what periods are recorded plus he recorded vocals in 2010 (TIL with rasp) plus comments from Richard that Axl is "recording" some vocals then this will be a mystery until some new information pop up on this subject

[Rovim]

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Can you please not spam the thread? I'd appreciate it.

[Rovim]

I wouldn't expect a new album. That was your first mistake.

This. There is no new album. Axl may record music but he'll never release it.

Of course there is a "new" album. It will be new to us anyway. To deny it's real and is going to come out is silly. You're silly maynard. He'll be late as usual, but he'll release it.

Of course there is "new music", it would be new to us anyway. To believe it's going to come out is silly. You're silly Rovim. He'll keep touring and playing his hits as usual, and will never release new music.

You're a poo poo head chinese 2 will rock you like a hurricane. Again.

I wouldn't expect a new album. That was your first mistake.

This. There is no new album. Axl may record music but he'll never release it.

Anyone who says otherwise is clearly nuts.

Shit... can't say shit to you now. Bulletproof argument you've got there. I'm clearly insane.

What argument? You can say shit to me anytime.

Shit.