Wrestling Thread Vol. 3

[username]

6 hours ago, Gunner55 said:

I enjoyed it. Don't like how they still mention punishing steel outside the ring when it's padded now. Granted I sure as hell wouldn't wanna bump on that still and it opens it up for some cool outside the ring moments without killing themselves. Happy with the winner, not happy with where that leaves Mania. But that's just because of Orton. 

Not to mention the entire rest of the Smackdown side of Mania. Sure we'll probably get the shitfest of Cenikki vs Mizryse. But I'm more interested in direction for guys like AJ, Harper and Ziggler.

[luciusfunk]

Finally Bray is champ! At least he'll be champion for seven weeks before losing it to Orton at Mania. 

[axlslash]

Excellent PPV overall, especially that main event. Great spots, great pacing, and most importantly great business. Settled what they needed it to, and set up what they needed it to. Very nicely and impressively done.

I really like where Smackdown's side of Mania is, for the most part. Cena/Nikki vs the Mizanins will be an ok match, nothing special. If they're lining up Carmellsworth vs Naomi, I'll fucking hate it, but if they keep it going with Alexa that'll be great. For the men, I like every singles feud they have going. Corbin vs Ambrose will be fun, and hopefully get the IC strap on Corbin. Bray vs Orton is really interesting from a story perspective, and I'm excited to see them square off finally after Brock broke Orton and derailed that program last summer. Only downer on the male singles card is Dolph. How has that guy not asked for his release yet...?

The only way I'll care about the SD tag picture for Mania is if Alpha come out Tuesday night, cut a promo on how they beat every team and nobody in the SD tag division can beat them, and Dash & Dawson challenge them. Short of that it's gonna feel repetitive, even if it's a strong match like them vs Usos. 

[username]

8 minutes ago, axlslash said:

Excellent PPV overall, especially that main event. Great spots, great pacing, and most importantly great business. Settled what they needed it to, and set up what they needed it to. Very nicely and impressively done.

I really like where Smackdown's side of Mania is, for the most part. Cena/Nikki vs the Mizanins will be an ok match, nothing special. If they're lining up Carmellsworth vs Naomi, I'll fucking hate it, but if they keep it going with Alexa that'll be great. For the men, I like every singles feud they have going. Corbin vs Ambrose will be fun, and hopefully get the IC strap on Corbin. Bray vs Orton is really interesting from a story perspective, and I'm excited to see them square off finally after Brock broke Orton and derailed that program last summer. Only downer on the male singles card is Dolph. How has that guy not asked for his release yet...?

The only way I'll care about the SD tag picture for Mania is if Alpha come out Tuesday night, cut a promo on how they beat every team and nobody in the SD tag division can beat them, and Dash & Dawson challenge them. Short of that it's gonna feel repetitive, even if it's a strong match like them vs Usos. 

You're leaving out one phenomenal guy. Ironically the guy who carried Smackdown most of the year is stuck without a program. Yes, there is the Shane-AJ rumor, but imo that'd be a horrible way to waste AJ. 

[axlslash]

1 minute ago, username said:

You're leaving out one phenomenal guy. Ironically the guy who carried Smackdown most of the year is stuck without a program. Yes, there is the Shane-AJ rumor, but imo that'd be a horrible way to waste AJ. 

I'm ok with it if the stip is AJ playing for the right to switch brands because he's pissed at Shane sabotaging him (which is the storyline they've quietly seeded in his convos with Shane). With Ferg probably coming back Raw after Mania, that would leave AJ going over on a McMahon on the biggest of stages and ultimately facilitates the Biz Cliz storyline we've all been waiting for. 

Don't get me wrong, I want AJ doing something more meaningful at Mania. But if the business is done right, I can accept AJ vs Shane.

[username]

You're not wrong, but I'd still hate it. 

 

I hope they'll go with a singles match for the IC belt. Ambrose-Corbin sounds fine. If they make it a ladder match, I suppose they'll toss in Harper and Ziggler or something. But right now I think they're confined to the Andre match. 

I wonder what they'll do with the US Championship too. Keep it on Jericho or put it on Zayn. And in the latter case, who will he be wrestling for it at Mania? Braun? Joe? If they keep it on Jericho I guess it's Jericho-Owens for the belt. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by username

[axlslash]

The US Title is nothing right now. Ever since Roman won it, it's been an afterthought. He left it backstage 98 percent of the time, and ever since the start of Roman vs KO and right into the current program with Jericho, it's been the irrelevant second fiddle in the Universal Title picture. I hope they put it on Sami and spin him off into something totally separate. Let it have its space from the Big Belt and actually stand as a title again. Sami vs Rusev would be all kinds of fun, and eventually you can get that strap back on Rusev where it belongs for all of eternity. 

[AtariLegend]

Ambrose held the US or Intercontinental title a few years back for almost a year or whatever and occasionally left it backstage too. He barely defended it.

Secondary titles mean nothing, actually the main titles barely mean anything either. Rollins lost something like 19 matches in a row when he held the title. Lesnar was the last title holder to mean anything and was originally just to pass it to Roman before he bombed.

[axlslash]

1 minute ago, AtariLegend said:

Ambrose held the US or Intercontinental title a few years back for almost a year or whatever and occasionally left it backstage too. He barely defended it.

Secondary titles mean nothing, actually the main titles barely mean anything either. Rollins lost something like 19 matches in a row when he held the title. Lesnar was the last title holder to mean anything and was originally just to pass it to Roman before he bombed.

With kayfabe dead, belts are mostly for guys who can't get over with character as Bin Hamin likes to say. But I don't think I necessarily agree with you. I think the two big belts mean a fair amount right now (I'm admittedly not a fan of the two-belt setup, but it is what it is). The tag belts matter less because each show only has 2 or 3 real teams to compete for them and a whole bunch of filler. IC title was the biggest belt in the company on Miz, and I'm still salty that they took it off of him. Women's belts totally feel relevant right now, with really viable feuds going constantly. So generally the belts feel ok most of the time, even as diluted as the scene is with duplicate belts for each brand. But again, I'm not sure guys need belts to be over in this day and age. 

[AtariLegend]

28 minutes ago, axlslash said:

 I think the two big belts mean a fair amount right now

My response.

On 2/7/2017 at 1:33 AM, AtariLegend said:

Just a quick comparison between Okada and Steen.

Okada's been IWGP champion since the 19th June 2016. He's made 3 title defenses since (all 3 of which have been different styles of matches against different opponents, but fantastic) and likely won't defend again until April if not June.

Steen's been Universal Champion since the 29th August 2016 and made 9 title defenses (37 if you count un-televised), several on TV. None of which I can remember except for the last one at the Rumble. 6 of the 9 title matches that were televised were against Seth Rollins.

Half the fucking roster has held the title, it means nothing. Owens/Seth as heel champions that struggle to win matches.

Stone Cold, Triple H, The Rock, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Brock Lesnar ect. weren't losing every other match when they were champion. You didn't see Taker doing 50/50 booking.

This is the era they created themselves in the mid-2000's. 

Bray's the champion? Yeah sure, enjoy. Ignore that he's lost almost every big feud over the past few years outside the Bryan one. He's only champion, because they wanted Orton vs. Bray to be a championship match. It'll probably be smack in the middle of Mania no where near the main event, despite the terrible card they have planned. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by AtariLegend

[luciusfunk]

I don't want AJ on Raw. He'll be so misused with KO, Reigns, a healthy Rollins, and a healthy Balor. 

[KeyserSoze]

congrats to Bayley and Wyatt.. Well deserved in both cases. 

Other than that main event and some of that Jericho and Owens segment, Raw was pure steaming hot garbage

[username]

Building up Braun so well just to feed him to Roman makes me sad.

[AtariLegend]

RAW Women's Title another one.

Charlotte losing the title on RAW as a gimmick, because they want to keep her PPV streak going. 

8 hours ago, username said:

Building up Braun so well just to feed him to Roman makes me sad.

Taker too is likely being fed to Reigns and possibly Lesnar at some point this year (although they plan that every year now).

Even if fans get their wish and Reigns becomes a heel. He's still going to be pushed as hard as he is if not stronger, nothing is going to change. 

[moreblack]

I'm not mad at that Raw ending. The last couple minutes of that match were frantic and led up to a good finish.

Edited February 14, 2017 by moreblack

[username]

2 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

Taker too is likely being fed to Reigns and possibly Lesnar at some point this year (although they plan that every year now).

Even if fans get their wish and Reigns becomes a heel. He's still going to be pushed as hard as he is if not stronger, nothing is going to change. 

Still makes me sad. 

[axlslash]

I want Roman to turn full heel vs Taker, make the match career vs career, and let Taker's retirement create the most hated villain in the company. Steer into the skid, make that heat mean something, and make the Miz look like a goddamn fan favorite baby face by comparison. Pretty much anything else will suck. And FWIW, I don't think Braun is gonna get fed to Roman at all. I think Taker is going to interfere/distract and Braun is going to win, but it'll be tit-for-tat up to that point.

The JeriKO turn was exquisite. I wanted it at the PPV and not on free TV, but this was better. You seamlessly made Y2J sympathetic over the course of that segment, and just got serious heat on KO for the first time in months. On top of which you've now set the stage for (I assume) Y2J to be off TV "hurt" for the next few weeks, come out at Fastlane, distract KO or somehow otherwise cost him the big belt. And what a lovely bit of irony - Goldberg's biggest backstage detractor is going to kayfabe give him that last title run. A nice little wink to the internet smarks out there (looking at you, Atari )

Jesus fucking Christ the women's booking..... This is textbook shit. Bayley lost at the Rumble, she should lose again at Fastlane, then end Charlotte's streak at Mania. Sasha turns heel on Raw the next night to start the year-long feud building to a possible women's main event at 34. Why the fuck are we back to this goddamn hot potato bullshit?!

[PsychoKiss344]

The first two hours last night were legit pointless.

Samoa interview, JeriKO and the womans match was a solid last hour.

[tsinindy]

42 minutes ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

The first two hours last night were legit pointless.

Samoa interview, JeriKO and the womans match was a solid last hour.

Welcome to Monday Night Raw.

[PsychoKiss344]

2 minutes ago, tsinindy said:

Welcome to Monday Night Raw.

Raw really needs to start learning from Smackdown.

[username]

1 hour ago, axlslash said:

I want Roman to turn full heel vs Taker, make the match career vs career, and let Taker's retirement create the most hated villain in the company. Steer into the skid, make that heat mean something, and make the Miz look like a goddamn fan favorite baby face by comparison. Pretty much anything else will suck. And FWIW, I don't think Braun is gonna get fed to Roman at all. I think Taker is going to interfere/distract and Braun is going to win, but it'll be tit-for-tat up to that point.

Nobody hates Roman for being a villain. They hate him because Vince keeps forcefeeding him to the fans. I think most people are ok with him in either role, as long as it's not as the handpicked top guy. People rejected him in that position, face or heel. The only benefit of him being a heel is that Vince can explain the crowd rejecting him as him being a good heel. 

[axlslash]

1 hour ago, username said:

Nobody hates Roman for being a villain. They hate him because Vince keeps forcefeeding him to the fans. I think most people are ok with him in either role, as long as it's not as the handpicked top guy. People rejected him in that position, face or heel. The only benefit of him being a heel is that Vince can explain the crowd rejecting him as him being a good heel. 

This has happened once before, with a handpicked Somoan top-guy getting booed when the crowd pushed back against the company forcing him as a face. What ever happened to that Rocky Maiavia guy, anyway? Wonder what he's up to...

In all seriousness, I think you're right for now. But if you steer into the skid like they did with the Rumble finish, you can use the hate Roman gets right now in order to get what you want from the crowd. Eventually they'll forget that you're playing them, an he'll just be a top heel with lots of heat. Go all in and it just might work, and what do you have to lose?

[username]

13 minutes ago, axlslash said:

This has happened once before, with a handpicked Somoan top-guy getting booed when the crowd pushed back against the company forcing him as a face. What ever happened to that Rocky Maiavia guy, anyway? Wonder what he's up to...

In fairness, Rocky is a natural entertainer with great mic skills and great charisma. Roman quite simply isn't any of that. Sufferin succotash! (ok, he wasn't actually to blame for that particular line, lol)

And I think it's a risk anyway. Heel heat isn't rejection. Roman is on the rejection-side too much. 

 

[username]

Anybody else think they might do a ladder match for the US title (instead of the IC title which they usually do) and put Sami, Braun, Joe and maybe Rusev in it? Basically they're the 4 biggest RAW guys without a program. And I'm guessing that Sami will take it off Jericho at Fastlane...   

Other than that Mania seems pretty much set. My guess is: 

RAW:
Berg-Bork (uni title)
??? (US title) 
Seth-Trips
Owens-Jericho
Taker-Roman 
some combination of Charlotte/Bayley/Sasha/Jax (woman's title)
a tag title match
Neville-somebody (cruiserweight title) 
Show-Shaq 

Smackdown: 
Wyatt-Orton (WWE title)
Ambrose-Corbin (IC title)
Cenikki-Mizryse
AJ-Shane
some combination of Naomi/Becky/Bliss/Micky (woman's title)
a tag title match

The rest of both rosters seem doomed to a battle royal. Which would suck for Harper and Zigler. 

[axlslash]

I'm so conflicted with the end of SD last night. Like the story implications in the short term, but holy shit. You wasted #30 on Roman just to make RKO winning the Rumble feel exciting. This cheapens the entire Rumble, to just have the winner turn it down... Fingers crossed this plays out ok, but like every character in Star Wars, I got a baaaaad feeling about this.