Is there anything fundamentally wrong with being a nostalgia act?

[Iron MikeyJ]

Yes... there is.

The potential of this band after 93 and what actually got achieved since... what a fucking let down.

I bet theres more than a few people who must look back and think they pissed the next 22 years away compared to what they could have achieved.

By who's standards, yours? The media? The general public? .

EVERYBODY'S!!!!!!!!! If you deny this you are a fuckig lier. Guns N' Roses post Slash let everyone down. EVERYONE!

No I don't agree with this, not at all. My personal expectations for gnr dropped significantly after Slash left. Which I have to ask, how old are you? Because I'm in my 30s, I bought the end of days soundtrack and live era the day both were released. My point? Even though I like oh my God, I knew the sound of the band had changed significantly, as did my expectations. I was no longer expecting the gnr of old.

So again, how could they have let me down? They already let me down the day axl and slash parted ways, honestly they couldn't be more disappointing than they were then. Which I'm not saying waiting 10 years for CD wasn't crappy, because it was. Its just that my expectations for the band have not been that high since 1996, I no longer expected them to be some kind of juggernaut, the days of Led Zeppelin comparisons are long gone.

As for the media, Axl has been a running joke with them since 2002, maybe even before. So I highly doubt they had these high expectations for him. I just don't see where these massive expectations everybody seems to have, came from. Where you expecting CD to honestly be better than Appetite? No way possible. I just honestly don't understand where some of your expectations come from? Sure I would of liked more along the way, who wouldn't? After waiting 10 plus years for CD, did you honestly think we would get a new album in a timely fashion? I sure as Hell didn't. If we get 1 more album out of Axl, that Will be pretty much it I bet.

My point? Lower your expectations. Its much harder to be let down that way.

[Apollo]

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

Lol

Yes, that's what he is telling you.

We know that a 2,500 week can get an album on the billboard charts.

To reach your figure:

CD would be selling 60,000 units a month, every month, for the past six years.

Using YOUR numbers......CD would be listed in the top 20 for albums sales pretty much EVERY week in EVERY major country. For the past six years.

Can you show us one week that CD was a top 20 album in any major country over the past 5 years? Using the numbers YOU provided there should literally be over 1,000 examples from you to choose from. Just show us a couple of those thousand.

I got the image from gnr revolution website. I think the album jumped back in the billboard 200, a couple of years ago.

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

Lol

Yes, that's what he is telling you.

We know that a 2,500 week can get an album on the billboard charts.

To reach your figure:

CD would be selling 60,000 units a month, every month, for the past six years.

Using YOUR numbers......CD would be listed in the top 20 for albums sales pretty much EVERY week in EVERY major country. For the past six years.

Can you show us one week that CD was a top 20 album in any major country over the past 5 years? Using the numbers YOU provided there should literally be over 1,000 examples from you to choose from. Just show us a couple of those thousand.

Yeah, man- this isn't Dark Side of the Moon or Thriller we're talking about here... with anything close to those numbers you'd see Chinese Democracy on the Billboard Catalog Chart (for example Guns N Roses Greatest Hits topped it back in March 2012).

If Best Buy didn't get suckered into shelling out $14 million for 1.6 million copies who knows what the actual number would be (please see this fun article from a few years back- already an oldie but goodie!

Remember all those Dollar Store pics folks were posting 4 or 5 years ago?

Maybe it's moved another 50,000 units in Brazil since 2009... I'd give you that much.

Greatest Hits is one of the best selling records of the past 10-11 years that is a fact. Its actually rare for it not to be in the billboard 200.

Not sure what getaway hits has to do with anything. But back to he question.

Can you find a couple incidences where CD charted again. To reach your sales numbers they would have had to chart about 1,000 times. Can you link us to 3 of those 1,000? That should be pretty easy to find. Three out of 1,000.

Thanks!

[Rodzilla72]

Yeah, man- this isn't Dark Side of the Moon or Thriller we're talking about here... with anything close to those numbers you'd see Chinese Democracy on the Billboard Catalog Chart (for example Guns N Roses Greatest Hits topped it back in March 2012).

If Best Buy didn't get suckered into shelling out $14 million for 1.6 million copies who knows what the actual number would be (please see this fun article from a few years back- already an oldie but goodie!

Remember all those Dollar Store pics folks were posting 4 or 5 years ago?

Maybe it's moved another 50,000 units in Brazil since 2009... I'd give you that much.

Greatest Hits is one of the best selling records of the past 10-11 years that is a fact. Its actually rare for it not to be in the billboard 200.

Not sure what getaway hits has to do with anything. But back to he question.

Can you find a couple incidences where CD charted again. To reach your sales numbers they would have had to chart about 1,000 times. Can you link us to 3 of those 1,000? That should be pretty easy to find. Three out of 1,000.

Thanks!

I just brought up Greatest Hits as an example of an album that has stayed in the catalog charts for years, as opposed to Chinese Democracy, which has not.

[wkuk04]

I don't have the facts at hand right now guys. But you enjoy the rest of your night!

[DieselDaisy]

@zoso,

We are going to have to agree to disagree when it comes to Coda. I do like some of the songs on, Poor Tom especially. But I still don't consider it a true Zeppelin album because had Bonham not died, that was not the album we would have gotten next. So it has to be, by that fact alone, considered a posthumous album. Hell in through the out door (which is one of my personal favs) is a masterpiece compared to Coda. Plus when you consider it is mostly leftover tracks, that screams of posthumous album.

Hendrix does have some decent posthumous albums, but they don't even compare to his real 3 and band of gypsies. Plus songs like Dolly Dagger and some of the other ones sound weak when compared to his earlier recordings imo.

I don't agree and I love Dolly Dagger. You have to remember that Hendrix had finished 80% of New Rising Sun. There are completed masters on that album, mixed and in the bag. In other words, this was not some barrel scraping exercise like the Jackson albums or some of the other Hendrix posthumous releases, but an attempt to construct an album that was already close to completion.

[dalsh327]

Best Buy used CDs as "loss leaders" where they were hoping you'd sign up for a credit card and drop a couple of grand on appliances and an entertainment system.

[Apollo]

Yeah, man- this isn't Dark Side of the Moon or Thriller we're talking about here... with anything close to those numbers you'd see Chinese Democracy on the Billboard Catalog Chart (for example Guns N Roses Greatest Hits topped it back in March 2012).

If Best Buy didn't get suckered into shelling out $14 million for 1.6 million copies who knows what the actual number would be (please see this fun article from a few years back- already an oldie but goodie!

Remember all those Dollar Store pics folks were posting 4 or 5 years ago?

Maybe it's moved another 50,000 units in Brazil since 2009... I'd give you that much.

Greatest Hits is one of the best selling records of the past 10-11 years that is a fact. Its actually rare for it not to be in the billboard 200.

Not sure what getaway hits has to do with anything. But back to he question.

Can you find a couple incidences where CD charted again. To reach your sales numbers they would have had to chart about 1,000 times. Can you link us to 3 of those 1,000? That should be pretty easy to find. Three out of 1,000.

Thanks!

I just brought up Greatest Hits as an example of an album that has stayed in the catalog charts for years, as opposed to Chinese Democracy, which has not.

Sorry man, I though WK brought that up to show - in some weird way - that CD was still charting.

I love CD more than probably 99.9% of people on the forum. But to say it's still selling 700,000 copies a year is just laughable and makes all if us Axl fans look silly.

[Nosaj Thing]

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

Lol

Yes, that's what he is telling you.

We know that a 2,500 week can get an album on the billboard charts.

To reach your figure:

CD would be selling 60,000 units a month, every month, for the past six years.

Using YOUR numbers......CD would be listed in the top 20 for albums sales pretty much EVERY week in EVERY major country. For the past six years.

Can you show us one week that CD was a top 20 album in any major country over the past 5 years? Using the numbers YOU provided there should literally be over 1,000 examples from you to choose from. Just show us a couple of those thousand.

I was going to reply to our deluded, misguided and clueless friend wkuk04 but after your post, there's no reason to. Common sense has dominated this discussion.

Great post, as always, Groghan.

[Bono]

Great response guys. Tell me this then, who could release an album in 2008 that the media/public/internet totally ate up, while being the only remaining original member, while touring that same album 6-8 years before it came out and 6-7 years after it came out, nostalgia or not, Axl Rose had the people in his palms, that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies, because people are infatuated with him & Guns N' Roses.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Holy fuck dude how infatuated with Axl are you to post such nonsense.

[Bono]

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

You are actually trying to tell us that after the intial buzz for CD which was based 100% on the wait between the Illusion albums and CD that the world suddenly became twice as interested in CD. Based on that graph (wherever the fuck you got that from) the dwindling sales shows that 6 years later NOBODY would or does give a fying fuck about Chinese Democracy. Your delusional logic suggests the sales would have increased over that time period when the very graph you supply shows the sales are clearly dwindling. Seriously man stop posting on the internet.

[Bono]

Yes... there is.

The potential of this band after 93 and what actually got achieved since... what a fucking let down.

I bet theres more than a few people who must look back and think they pissed the next 22 years away compared to what they could have achieved.

By who's standards, yours? The media? The general public? .

EVERYBODY'S!!!!!!!!! If you deny this you are a fuckig lier. Guns N' Roses post Slash let everyone down. EVERYONE!

No I don't agree with this, not at all. My personal expectations for gnr dropped significantly after Slash left. Which I have to ask, how old are you? Because I'm in my 30s, I bought the end of days soundtrack and live era the day both were released. My point? Even though I like oh my God, I knew the sound of the band had changed significantly, as did my expectations. I was no longer expecting the gnr of old.

So again, how could they have let me down? They already let me down the day axl and slash parted ways, honestly they couldn't be more disappointing than they were then. Which I'm not saying waiting 10 years for CD wasn't crappy, because it was. Its just that my expectations for the band have not been that high since 1996, I no longer expected them to be some kind of juggernaut, the days of Led Zeppelin comparisons are long gone.

As for the media, Axl has been a running joke with them since 2002, maybe even before. So I highly doubt they had these high expectations for him. I just don't see where these massive expectations everybody seems to have, came from. Where you expecting CD to honestly be better than Appetite? No way possible. I just honestly don't understand where some of your expectations come from? Sure I would of liked more along the way, who wouldn't? After waiting 10 plus years for CD, did you honestly think we would get a new album in a timely fashion? I sure as Hell didn't. If we get 1 more album out of Axl, that Will be pretty much it I bet.

My point? Lower your expectations. Its much harder to be let down that way.

Just to make it clear too I wasnt calling YOU personally a lier I just meant you in general as in everyone. You basically said here what I mean. They just let us all down and GnR post Slash has been an absolute letdown in terms of what thsi great band became. Then CD was relased ad it was like wow that is what the break up of the greatest rock band was for. Whata fucking waste and what a massive let down. Axl couldve gone his own way and given us something really great but instead he chose to basically do fuck all and drag the name and legacy through the mud.

I also bought End of Days and Live Era the day they were released. I thought parts of Oh MY God were cool but the song was so lack luster I was embarrassed to even have my friends hear it because I had talked so much about the return of GnR and was so excited to hear it.

[wkuk04]

Great response guys. Tell me this then, who could release an album in 2008 that the media/public/internet totally ate up, while being the only remaining original member, while touring that same album 6-8 years before it came out and 6-7 years after it came out, nostalgia or not, Axl Rose had the people in his palms, that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies, because people are infatuated with him & Guns N' Roses.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Holy fuck dude how infatuated with Axl are you to post such nonsense.

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

Lol

Yes, that's what he is telling you.

We know that a 2,500 week can get an album on the billboard charts.

To reach your figure:

CD would be selling 60,000 units a month, every month, for the past six years.

Using YOUR numbers......CD would be listed in the top 20 for albums sales pretty much EVERY week in EVERY major country. For the past six years.

Can you show us one week that CD was a top 20 album in any major country over the past 5 years? Using the numbers YOU provided there should literally be over 1,000 examples from you to choose from. Just show us a couple of those thousand.

I was going to reply to our deluded, misguided and clueless friend wkuk04 but after your post, there's no reason to. Common sense has dominated this discussion.

Great post, as always, Groghan.

You do realise Bono is considered a joke, probably more so than Axl. The public don't like Bono, he gets constantly criticised and the way he released his last album made that situation even worst, the ego on the guy so his album appears on your iphone,

[DieselDaisy]

The irony of an Axl fan lecturing people about rock stars' 'ego'.

[Bono]

You do realise Bono is considered a joke, probably more so than Axl. The public don't like Bono, he gets constantly criticised and the way he released his last album made that situation even worst, the ego on the guy so his album appears on your iphone,

Please go on. Tell me more about how Bono is a joke to the world while Axl is a god among gods in 2015. Click this link http://www.u2.com/tour and tell me again how the world at large hates Bono and U2 and how the release of Songs of Innocence has hurt the band. I look forward to your fact based response that shows the world and not just a small vocal minority absolutely despise Bono. Maybe you can post another chart to prove you point. Or in your case disprove your point.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Bono

[nico_france]

There is this interview of dee snider which says interesting things about rock bands, the original bands and the guys that pretend to fill in the shoes of the original ones... There's a part where he talks about GnR :

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dee-snider-apologizes-to-doug-aldrich-slams-kiss/

Edited March 19, 2015 by nico_france

[wkuk04]

The irony of an Axl fan lecturing people about rock stars' 'ego'.

The irony of a rock star deciding to put his own album on your mobile phone without your permission.

You do realise Bono is considered a joke, probably more so than Axl. The public don't like Bono, he gets constantly criticised and the way he released his last album made that situation even worst, the ego on the guy so his album appears on your iphone,

Please go on. Tell me more about how Bono is a joke to the world while Axl is a god among gods in 2015. Click this link http://www.u2.com/tour and tell me again how the world at large hates Bono and U2 and how the release of Songs of Innocence has hurt the band. I look forward to your fact based response that shows the world and not just a small vocal minority absolutely despise Bono. Maybe you can post another chart to prove you point. Or in your case disprove your point.

[Bono]

Nothing better than seeing a guy post absolute nonsense, then posts "data" to prove his nonsense but inadvertantly proves he is wrong. So then he tries to change the subject entirely by making some stupid point about something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Then is given actual subtsance to show his comment is nothing more than a butthurt Axl fan trying to lash out he replies with something he thinks is funny but doesn't actually address the subject that he brought up in the first place. It sucks admitting you don't have a fucking clue doesn't it wkuk04

Edited March 19, 2015 by Bono

[Intercourse]

Like or hate U2 they are the yardstick that GNR has to be measured against...similar levels of success at the same time...same creative pressures...same size egos...same inter-band fighting...same opportunities to fuck the whole thing up royally. Difference is that U2 fuck up, say sorry and keep trying.

Frankly I wish I was sitting here on GNR album number 5 or 6 since 1991 moaning that Axl was an awful bollocks for giving me his music against my will for free

[Bono]

Like or hate U2 they are the yardstick that GNR has to be measured against...similar levels of success at the same time...same creative pressures...same size egos...same inter-band fighting...same opportunities to fuck the whole thing up royally. Difference is that U2 fuck up, say sorry and keep trying.

Frankly I wish I was sitting here on GNR album number 5 or 6 since 1991 moaning that Axl was an awful bollocks for giving me his music against my will for free

Exactly. If you count Passengers, since 1991 U2 has put out 7 albums of new material, have released remasterd versions of every album from Boy to Achtung Baby with bonus discs of demos and unreleased songs, have released 6 concert dvds, greatest hits albums, live albums, they continue to tour new and fresh set lists each tour and sell out nearly every single show etc etc etc. Their biggest "fuck up" is selling their album to Apple and allowing Apple to give it away to people for free which resulted in their entire back catalogue cracking the top 100 on the itunes chart and had them as the most listend to artist via iOS devices in January 2015. Yet there are still Axl Rose fans that try to make the argument how the world hates U2 and Bono in some weird attempt to defend Axl. Granted with the kind of popularity U2 has comes a lot of hate but to sit back and say it's Bono who is the joke in 2015 when the subject at hand is Axl Rose. Hmmm....... It's also funny because I didn't even remotely mention U2 but some wingnut Axl fan decides to go that route with the conversation. It's like a 6 year old kid deciding to pick a fight with Brock Lesnar. I'm not sure I get the logic in that approach haha!

I too wish GnR operated more like U2. Guaranteed not one single GnR fan would complain if Axl released the next GnR album the same way U2 released Songs of Innocence.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Bono

[Apollo]

Like or hate U2 they are the yardstick that GNR has to be measured against...similar levels of success at the same time...same creative pressures...same size egos...same inter-band fighting...same opportunities to fuck the whole thing up royally. Difference is that U2 fuck up, say sorry and keep trying.

Frankly I wish I was sitting here on GNR album number 5 or 6 since 1991 moaning that Axl was an awful bollocks for giving me his music against my will for free

I too wish GnR operated more like U2. Guaranteed not one single GnR fan would complain if Axl released the next GnR album the same way U2 released Songs of Innocence.

WK04 - still waiting for links to CD hitting the charts anytime in the last five years.

And are you really complaining about a band GIVING AWAY AN ALBUM FOR FREE????????

If you didn't want the album, you could have spent 30 seconds and deleted it.

We seriously live in a day and age where people praise Axl for his lack of material, while bashing Slash for putting out albums every couple of years, and bashing Apple/U2 because they let people have their latest album for free. Mind boggling.

[RNRS]

I'd say there's something wrong with it if your sole purpose of driving the original band apart was to move forward with a clear vision, only to then not to live up to that vision, and have an end product that's getting gradually worse and has never met the level of your original band. Yeah, I'd say there's something wrong with that. The sad thing is that Axl's always so convinced how it's never, ever his fault that he'll most likely wind up being the only one still believing he did the right thing, which is ending up as an act in Vegas.

[ZoSoRose]

Great response guys. Tell me this then, who could release an album in 2008 that the media/public/internet totally ate up, while being the only remaining original member, while touring that same album 6-8 years before it came out and 6-7 years after it came out, nostalgia or not, Axl Rose had the people in his palms, that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies, because people are infatuated with him & Guns N' Roses.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! Holy fuck dude how infatuated with Axl are you to post such nonsense.

that's how Chinese Democracy sold 6-7 Million copies

6-7 million?

Link me to a reliable source for that.

This is from late 2008-early 2009. You telling me it hasn't sold another 3-4 million worldwide, six years later?

Lol

Yes, that's what he is telling you.

We know that a 2,500 week can get an album on the billboard charts.

To reach your figure:

CD would be selling 60,000 units a month, every month, for the past six years.

Using YOUR numbers......CD would be listed in the top 20 for albums sales pretty much EVERY week in EVERY major country. For the past six years.

Can you show us one week that CD was a top 20 album in any major country over the past 5 years? Using the numbers YOU provided there should literally be over 1,000 examples from you to choose from. Just show us a couple of those thousand.

I was going to reply to our deluded, misguided and clueless friend wkuk04 but after your post, there's no reason to. Common sense has dominated this discussion.

Great post, as always, Groghan.

You do realise Bono is considered a joke, probably more so than Axl. The public don't like Bono, he gets constantly criticised and the way he released his last album made that situation even worst, the ego on the guy so his album appears on your iphone,

Lol what? Bono is the frontman to one of the biggest bands of all time. Of course, he'll be criticized a lot because they are that HUGE. U2 has far more many fans than naysayers.

Actually, never mind. Bono, Adam, Larry, and The Edge are colossal failures. Of course Axl can sell out stadiums and arenas at the same rate!

[jbhutto]

Didn't Chinese Democracy actually pop up on vinyl album sales kinda outta the blue a while back, idk I remember reading something akin to that. It wasn't much, but kinda interesting, maybe due to one of those Chinese Democracy revisited articles.

[wkuk04]

Nothing better than seeing a guy post absolute nonsense, then posts "data" to prove his nonsense but inadvertantly proves he is wrong. So then he tries to change the subject entirely by making some stupid point about something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Then is given actual subtsance to show his comment is nothing more than a Super Awesome Axl fan trying to lash out he replies with something he thinks is funny but doesn't actually address the subject that he brought up in the first place. It sucks admitting you don't have a fucking clue doesn't it wkuk04

Maybe. If I wasn't an axl fan...I wouldn't be here. I just don't buy into the "blame Axl crowd".

Edited March 20, 2015 by wkuk04

[Apollo]

Nothing better than seeing a guy post absolute nonsense, then posts "data" to prove his nonsense but inadvertantly proves he is wrong. So then he tries to change the subject entirely by making some stupid point about something completely unrelated to the topic at hand. Then is given actual subtsance to show his comment is nothing more than a Super Awesome Axl fan trying to lash out he replies with something he thinks is funny but doesn't actually address the subject that he brought up in the first place. It sucks admitting you don't have a fucking clue doesn't it wkuk04

Maybe. If I wasn't an axl fan...I wouldn't be here. I just don't buy into the "blame Axl crowd".

Yet you were quick to call Bono (the singer) a bunch of names. Bit of a double standard.

Are you going to post your links to CF charting over the last five years to back up your 6-7 million albums sold statement?

Two really easy questions.

If you don't blame Axl for what has happened to GnR over the past 20 years, who do you think is most to blame? And how much blame would you out on Axl's shoulders?

And a simple yes or no. Are you happy with what GnR has done over the last 20 years. One album. And off and on touring, and basically no new songs love over the past decade. And very frequent interviews from Axl. And the constant turnover of bad members.

Better than a yes-no......give Axl a grade for the last 20 years. If 87-93 was a solid A, what would you grade 1996-2015?