Is there anything fundamentally wrong with being a nostalgia act?

[Iron MikeyJ]

Your entire post is your opinion as well. That's all any of us can give, is our opinion. You can not judge music any other way, than give your opinion. I love it when someone comes on here and says "that's just your opinion" well no Shit Sherlock, that's all any of us can do....

Now as for the rest of your post I actually agree with most of it. CD is sort of like a gnr album with the peanut butter but no jelly. But again that doesn't make it bad, it's just different. And again you were just making the same point that I was, the general public never really gave it a chance because they wanted pb and J (axl and slash) but instead they just got pb.

[Mr. Dude]

Slash has no integrity, whereas, Axl Rose has too much integrity to release music that he doesn't believe in 100%. He has so much integrity, musical integrity, that he won't even allow the band he has hired to be involved with the creative process because they might screw it up, nor will he go to the show until he feels he is ready to give the fans the best show possible. OK? Axl Rose is too damned good for this world. The only reason his/THEIR album flopped, is because the media is against him. They tried to bury it. However, the real GNR has taken the world by storm through constant touring and old fashioned word of mouth promotion of the album. But, he will have the last laugh. Because he's gonna rise like the phoenix when the public hears Chinese Democracy for the first time. Then album sales will really spike! And, then, and only then, when the public fully understands what I, and so many other Guns fans already know, that Axl Rose does indeed have a vision, will the next album come out, the second part of the trilogy. It will be the biggest thing to hit the world since the discovery of the dead sea scrolls and it will have more people interpreting it and analyzing it than the Gospel of Judas. Why can't people see this!?

I agree.

It flopped. Deal with it.

That's just the spin. In fact...the fact that the elite have been able to spin the perception that it flopped when in fact it really succeeded is demonstrative of the fact of its success.

That logic is airtight. Check it.

Yes, the media quite liked it. From my experience it was considered a 4/5 album. But it did not resonate with the public in the slightest.

Which to be fair, had more to do with who was not there, not the actual music itself. I'm not going to defend turds like riad and scraped, but CD does have songs that are just as good or better than many Illusion era stuff. If Slash was on CD, with all the same songs, it would have sold more copies and the public probably would have loved it. That's why critics did give it favorable reviews, because it is a good album. But most people can't see past their own noses, let alone a gnr album with no Slash....

If Slash was on CD the songs would be better, they'd sound better and in turn more people would like it. Everyone I know who heard CD(they only head it because of me, I don't know a single person who bought it or downloaded it) thinks it absolutely sucks. It's an annoying mess of sound for the most part. Yeah maybe people didn't like it because Slash wasn't on it but that's because Slash would've made it better. I mean I'm a huge Guns N Roses fan and I think most of CD sucks. How do you expect the casual fan to react then? Of course they're going to dislike it. This idea that people didn't give it a chance because no Slash is so stale and played out and untrue. People didn't like CD because it wasn't that good. Or at the least wasn't that appealing.

But that's just plain not true. If the album wasn't appealing, then why did it receive favorable reviews? Not because people or media likes Axl. Also when I have seen nugnr in concert, I've heard many people respond positively to the CD songs. I have also heard people (on the way out of the show) talk about how much they like the new songs, and express wanting to buy CD. So to say it is a bad or unappealing album is just plain not true. Or to say or doesn't have hooks is also not true.

Now I'm not going to sit here and defend CD like it was some sort of masterpiece, because it is not. But its not also some steaming pile of dogshit that many people in this forum like to make it out to be. I could go on and on about why it under performed, the highlights would be; lack of promotion, poor first single selection, axl hid, etc. All of these reasons helped the album under perform. Which none of these reasons have to do with the actual album. But as I said before, the lack of slash on it is the biggest reason. The general public just plain didn't give it much of a chance. But the same could be said from all classic bands albums of the last 15 years. People don't care about the new albums from acdc,aerosmith, Metallica, van Halen, etc. The general public just wants them to tour to hear all the classic songs, period. Its us hard cores that actually care about New music. If slash had been on CD, you can make the case he would have made some of the songs better, I'll give you that. But better, twat, sorry, and this I love are the best songs on the album, and they would be just as good with or without slash. It also has some pretty solid songs on it, which most of the album is solid. The only "bad" songs are riad and scraped. Which every slash couldn't of made them better.

If Better had been released as the first single, followed by sorry, then with this I love with TWAT as a b side, it would have performed better with the general public. By how much? Its hard to say, but I do believe it would have been a better run. The general public has a very short attention span, you have to lead with something really strong in order to get people attention. VH made the same mistake leading with Tattoo on their last album, and as a result that album suffered as well. Once people hear that first song, they make up their mind about the whole album. That's just the world we live in today. The general public wanted a classic guns sounding song, like jungle or you could be mine. Which CD lacks that type of song, But it does have classic sounding stuff, they just needed to get them out much sooner. Which better isn't classic sounding, But it is catchy and a strong song. So leading with that, then follow with sorry (which is classic sounding but also New sounding), then lastly go with til which is very classic sounding.

But the only things that CD lacks are slash, a classic rocking song (like ycbm), and less production. But all things considered it is a good album, one of the best rock albums of the last 15 years. Which that has to do as much with the state of rock as it does with the actual album. It is not as good as appetite, lies, or either illusion, but it is better than tsi. I would give it a solid 7.5 to 7.8 type of rating. Which is pretty damn solid in my book.

Your entire post is your opinion. I've been to two NuGNR concerts and didn't hear the praise you're talking about. What I did witness was almost silence during CD era songs (people saying WTF is this?), with a few people enjoying them. Probably the diehards like us.

CD can be anything from a piece of shit to a masterpiece, depending on who's listening to it and that person's taste. And for every positive review you speak of, I can give you five negative reviews.

The album itself, musically, is not bad. For a GNR record though, it's missing that "it" factor. And that would be Slash's signature sound. Had Axl released CD as a solo album, it probably would have been much more positively received. But what it isn't is a GNR album, and that's where most of the negativity comes from. Trying to judge a GNR album without Slash on it is like trying to eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the jelly. All you got left at that point is a peanut butter sandwich, and that's exactly what CD is.

If it doesn't look like PBNJ, if it doesn't smell like PBNJ, and if it doesn't tastes like PBNJ, it's not PBNJ.

CD is not GNR. It would have been a great Axl solo album, but it will never be judged fairly because Axl insists it's GNR.

If anything, I would argue that CD is too GNR.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Mr. Dude

[Matt13]

If anything, I would argue that CD is too GNR.

Someone alert an admin that Del or Fernando are posting here again.

[Silent Jay]

I'm with Mr. Dude, CD is so GNR in many ways. it was not groundbreaking, but did very well imo. It has stood the test of time.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Silent Jay

[Matt13]

Your entire post is your opinion as well. That's all any of us can give, is our opinion. You can not judge music any other way, than give your opinion. I love it when someone comes on here and says "that's just your opinion" well no Shit Sherlock, that's all any of us can do....

Now as for the rest of your post I actually agree with most of it. CD is sort of like a gnr album with the peanut butter but no jelly. But again that doesn't make it bad, it's just different. And again you were just making the same point that I was, the general public never really gave it a chance because they wanted pb and J (axl and slash) but instead they just got pb.

When you say 'But that's just plain not true', you're discrediting the other posters opinion, and claiming he is wrong and you are right. I only brought up the opinion stuff because by that statement, you're claiming your opinion to be absolute truth, and the other person's not true. Had you not told somebody else that his statement and opinion wasn't true, I never would have brought up the opinion stuff. So don't try to twist your words around and tell me 'no shit Sherlock' when you, in fact, shot down someone else's opinion as false.

Truth is, CD was well received when judged not as a GNR album, but judged musically. It was torn apart by most other reviews because it carried the GNR name. Had it been an Axl solo album, it probably would have been well received and even gotten some real air play.

Outside of that, it's pretty much a joke and despite some of the good tunes on that record, I cringe overtime I hear any of the songs thinking Axl's trying to make us believe that's GNR.

[Seb91]

I remember at school a lot of people at school liked CD who weren't diehard GN'R fans. At the end of the day it was always going to be a weird release - the songs were pretty old by the time they came out and there were only a couple people hadn't heard before plus you had the "it isn't really GN'R" brigade. I agree that the title track was a bad choice for the lead single as for one, it isn't the strongest track on the album by a long way and two, that intro is just way too long for a radio song. Mainstream radio stations still play November Rain a lot so maybe a ballad would have been a better choice.

The thing is though, Chinese was a joke to everyone long before it came out. Axl should have put a new record out and toured behind it soon after (like at the start of '09) so that he could put the whole CD saga behind him. The fact that there was no tour until a year later also didn't help as you need a tour to create a buzz these days. Plus, the fact that the Chinese tour dragged on to the end of 2011 really didn't help...

[ZoSoRose]

I was in high school when the album dropped and everyone made fun of my excitement =(

My friends tease me to this day about Chinese Democracy. I even bought a few pals a copy and none of them listened to it or they just continued to tease me

[Ragnar]

Chinese Democracy is a Guns N`Roses album whether some likes or not. Yes, I said it cry me a river.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Ragnar

[Słash]

CD is like Shawerma without Chicken

CD is like Playstation without controller

CD is like Wifi Router without an Internet Connection

CD is like a Lamp without a bulb

CD is like Laptop without a keyboard

CD is like a Guitar without Strings

CD is like a Swimming pool without water

CD is like a Car without an engine

CD is like a mobile without a battery

CD is like a Fan without blades

CD is like an Aeroplane without engines

CD is like a Door without a handle

CD is just Axl Rose and hired people, NOT GUNS N' ROSES

[majormayhem]

Does Axl Rose even deserve be a part of the musical community at this point? may be a good follow up question

[Bono]

Yes, the media quite liked it. From my experience it was considered a 4/5 album. But it did not resonate with the public in the slightest.

Which to be fair, had more to do with who was not there, not the actual music itself. I'm not going to defend turds like riad and scraped, but CD does have songs that are just as good or better than many Illusion era stuff. If Slash was on CD, with all the same songs, it would have sold more copies and the public probably would have loved it. That's why critics did give it favorable reviews, because it is a good album. But most people can't see past their own noses, let alone a gnr album with no Slash....

If Slash was on CD the songs would be better, they'd sound better and in turn more people would like it. Everyone I know who heard CD(they only head it because of me, I don't know a single person who bought it or downloaded it) thinks it absolutely sucks. It's an annoying mess of sound for the most part. Yeah maybe people didn't like it because Slash wasn't on it but that's because Slash would've made it better. I mean I'm a huge Guns N Roses fan and I think most of CD sucks. How do you expect the casual fan to react then? Of course they're going to dislike it. This idea that people didn't give it a chance because no Slash is so stale and played out and untrue. People didn't like CD because it wasn't that good. Or at the least wasn't that appealing.

But that's just plain not true. If the album wasn't appealing, then why did it receive favorable reviews? Not because people or media likes Axl. Also when I have seen nugnr in concert, I've heard many people respond positively to the CD songs. I have also heard people (on the way out of the show) talk about how much they like the new songs, and express wanting to buy CD. So to say it is a bad or unappealing album is just plain not true. Or to say or doesn't have hooks is also not true.

Now I'm not going to sit here and defend CD like it was some sort of masterpiece, because it is not. But its not also some steaming pile of dogshit that many people in this forum like to make it out to be. I could go on and on about why it under performed, the highlights would be; lack of promotion, poor first single selection, axl hid, etc. All of these reasons helped the album under perform. Which none of these reasons have to do with the actual album. But as I said before, the lack of slash on it is the biggest reason. The general public just plain didn't give it much of a chance. But the same could be said from all classic bands albums of the last 15 years. People don't care about the new albums from acdc,aerosmith, Metallica, van Halen, etc. The general public just wants them to tour to hear all the classic songs, period. Its us hard cores that actually care about New music. If slash had been on CD, you can make the case he would have made some of the songs better, I'll give you that. But better, twat, sorry, and this I love are the best songs on the album, and they would be just as good with or without slash. It also has some pretty solid songs on it, which most of the album is solid. The only "bad" songs are riad and scraped. Which every slash couldn't of made them better.

If Better had been released as the first single, followed by sorry, then with this I love with TWAT as a b side, it would have performed better with the general public. By how much? Its hard to say, but I do believe it would have been a better run. The general public has a very short attention span, you have to lead with something really strong in order to get people attention. VH made the same mistake leading with Tattoo on their last album, and as a result that album suffered as well. Once people hear that first song, they make up their mind about the whole album. That's just the world we live in today. The general public wanted a classic guns sounding song, like jungle or you could be mine. Which CD lacks that type of song, But it does have classic sounding stuff, they just needed to get them out much sooner. Which better isn't classic sounding, But it is catchy and a strong song. So leading with that, then follow with sorry (which is classic sounding but also New sounding), then lastly go with til which is very classic sounding.

But the only things that CD lacks are slash, a classic rocking song (like ycbm), and less production. But all things considered it is a good album, one of the best rock albums of the last 15 years. Which that has to do as much with the state of rock as it does with the actual album. It is not as good as appetite, lies, or either illusion, but it is better than tsi. I would give it a solid 7.5 to 7.8 type of rating. Which is pretty damn solid in my book.

I've seen new GnR 4 times. The reaction to CD songs has pretty much been "Beer break" or "Piss break". the life is literally sucked right out fo the shows when a CD song begins. the last show I saw in 2010 the guy in front of me was angry every time a new song started. yelling obscenities like "enough of this shit! play some fucvking real music!". The general public did not recieve CD well including those who heard it. Some may have but the vast majority did not like it. That's reality and only on GnR forums is the delusion alive and well that most people if they just gave it a chance would like it.

[tinyrobot]

I've seen new GnR 4 times. The reaction to CD songs has pretty much been "Beer break" or "Piss break". the life is literally sucked right out fo the shows when a CD song begins. the last show I saw in 2010 the guy in front of me was angry every time a new song started. yelling obscenities like "enough of this shit! play some fucvking real music!". The general public did not recieve CD well including those who heard it. Some may have but the vast majority did not like it. That's reality and only on GnR forums is the delusion alive and well that most people if they just gave it a chance would like it.

Most people who attend shows of artists like GNR are not die hard fans like us in here.... Most of this people didn't buy CD.... Actually, most of them the only album they may have is the Greatest Hits. So when they protest during show like you say, it's not because they hated CD and dislike it. It's because they never heard the fucking shit!

Most of them are there to listen to SCOM, PaTience, KOHD, Live & Let Die, November Rain, Don't Cry and Paradise City. Anything beyond that pisses them off because they don't know the songs, don't know the lyrics and feel awkward around the real fans who sing along every song.

It happens to all artists of all genres.

[Free Bird]

I've seen new GnR 4 times. The reaction to CD songs has pretty much been "Beer break" or "Piss break". the life is literally sucked right out fo the shows when a CD song begins. the last show I saw in 2010 the guy in front of me was angry every time a new song started. yelling obscenities like "enough of this shit! play some fucvking real music!". The general public did not recieve CD well including those who heard it. Some may have but the vast majority did not like it. That's reality and only on GnR forums is the delusion alive and well that most people if they just gave it a chance would like it.

Most people who attend shows of artists like GNR are not die hard fans like us in here.... Most of this people didn't buy CD.... Actually, most of them the only album they may have is the Greatest Hits. So when they protest during show like you say, it's not because they hated CD and dislike it. It's because they never heard the fucking shit!

Most of them are there to listen to SCOM, PaTience, KOHD, Live & Let Die, November Rain, Don't Cry and Paradise City. Anything beyond that pisses them off because they don't know the songs, don't know the lyrics and feel awkward around the real fans who sing along every song.

It happens to all artists of all genres.

I think it's pretty much otherwise. Most people who went to concerts are the people who still buy CDs and merchandise. You are right, not all of them are die hard fans but you don't have to be a die hard fan to know the hits and the better songs of UYI, some stuff of Lies and the whole AFD. Classic GNR's back catalog wasn't that big but full of classics so the general rock fan knows these tracks very well.

[Bono]

I've seen new GnR 4 times. The reaction to CD songs has pretty much been "Beer break" or "Piss break". the life is literally sucked right out fo the shows when a CD song begins. the last show I saw in 2010 the guy in front of me was angry every time a new song started. yelling obscenities like "enough of this shit! play some fucvking real music!". The general public did not recieve CD well including those who heard it. Some may have but the vast majority did not like it. That's reality and only on GnR forums is the delusion alive and well that most people if they just gave it a chance would like it.

Most people who attend shows of artists like GNR are not die hard fans like us in here.... Most of this people didn't buy CD.... Actually, most of them the only album they may have is the Greatest Hits. So when they protest during show like you say, it's not because they hated CD and dislike it. It's because they never heard the fucking shit!

Most of them are there to listen to SCOM, PaTience, KOHD, Live & Let Die, November Rain, Don't Cry and Paradise City. Anything beyond that pisses them off because they don't know the songs, don't know the lyrics and feel awkward around the real fans who sing along every song.

It happens to all artists of all genres.

Most of the people who bought AFD and Illusions were also not diehard fans yet they loved those albums, they love hearing those songs in concert. Your point is completely ridiculous and it's getting rather sad to see what lengths you'll go to to defend Axl's band. Most of the people who have heard CD don't give two shits about it. If they did the album would've sold way more and it would be played on radio far more often then NEVER. Like I said this delusion that many of you hold onto that if only the world gave CD a listen they would love it is just that. A delusion.

[wasted]

Nostalgia is the denial of the present as Jason Statham says in Crank 3.

[acor]

Where are people on AC/DC being a "nostalgia act"?

AC/DC, currently is not a "nostalgia act", is a parody act, in nuGnR fanshion... Touring with ONE member who recorded their best album (LTBR), without its arguably 3 most important members, I don't see much differrence between what they're doing and what Axl is doing... And I don't care that that RoB is their best record since foever (it really is), line was crossed IMO.

Only thing are better is that they sell its better than nuGNR, as casual fans think that guy in school uniform is their "leader", and guy with funny cap is the one who sung Highway To Hell, same as GnR casual fans think it was all about Axl and Slash, forgetting about that third guy who wrote all those amazing songs, but didn't appeared on tabloids. BTW- I HATE term "casual fans"...If someone doesn't know basics about band history, and doesn't buying album, IMO is not any "fan" at all..."Casual listener" would be better word.

BTW- sorry for poor english, its not my first language...

[Bono]

Where are people on AC/DC being a "nostalgia act"?

AC/DC, currently is not a "nostalgia act", is a parody act, in nuGnR fanshion... Touring with ONE member who recorded their best album (LTBR), without its arguably 3 most important members, I don't see much differrence between what they're doing and what Axl is doing... And I don't care that that RoB is their best record since foever (it really is), line was crossed IMO.

Only thing are better is that they sell its better than nuGNR, as casual fans think that guy in school uniform is their "leader", and guy with funny cap is the one who sung Highway To Hell, same as GnR casual fans think it was all about Axl and Slash, forgetting about that third guy who wrote all those amazing songs, but didn't appeared on tabloids. BTW- I HATE term "casual fans"...If someone doesn't know basics about band history, and doesn't buying album, IMO is not any "fan" at all..."Casual listener" would be better word.

BTW- sorry for poor english, its not my first language...

Comparing AC/DC to GnR is absolutely absurd.

[wasted]

I don't think any of these bands are nostalgia bands really. Other than U2 who just rape nostalgia over and over. They all have an element of it but all do enough. It's not a perfect reconstruction in sepia tones.

The Stones show now and Guns is similar nostalgia wise. They arent Abba by a long chalk line of white powder.

[majormayhem]

I saw B.O.C and Foghat they were both great. Foghat was promoting their latest album. The only original member was the bass player. The drummer was the 2nd edition, and the vocalist was the voice from humble pie. They played all their classics and were so awesome. Classic rock at its finest. Anyway, the revolving door of musicians is par for the course in rock music. I never understood why some people won't give Guns the benefit of the doubt. You can point to pretty much any band and say, "that's not really..." Whoever. Tom Petty's band, for instance. They have changed the bass player and drummer during their career. Now the original bass player is back. They added a utility man, as well. But, there are some who say they aren't the Heartbreakers without Stan Lynch.

I mean, I can get a good look at a tbone by sticking my head up a butchers ass, but I'd rather take his word for it. No, wait. Its gotta be your bull....

Edited March 27, 2015 by majormayhem

[SoulMonster]

The whole idea that a band isn't the band if it has gone through personnell changes becomes even more absurd when you consider that people change, too. Even if the AFD lineup was reunited, it still wouldn't be GN'R like in 1987 because the people, although the same, have changed. So all this hankering for what once was can never become more than nostalgic dreams. And GN'R can never be what it once was. But it is still GN'R, unless we should forgo with all meaningful usage of labels and names.

[Bono]

I don't think any of these bands are nostalgia bands really. Other than U2 who just rape nostalgia over and over. They all have an element of it but all do enough. It's not a perfect reconstruction in sepia tones.

The Stones show now and Guns is similar nostalgia wise. They arent Abba by a long chalk line of white powder.

Most ridiculous comment I have seen in a very long time. Have you been to a U2 show the last 20 years or ever? Their concerts rely heavily on their most recent material every tour and that's a fact. They also don't rely heavily on one album from the past to sustain their shows. Also U2 try and set new standards for live stage productions each and every tour. Calling them a nostalgia act is asinine.

[magisme]

I do enjoy how much it bothers some that most people don't see NuGNR as GNR. "But it's a fact!!! You have no say!!!" They get so irritable.

[Nosaj Thing]

I do enjoy how much it bothers some that most people don't see NuGNR as GNR. "But it's a fact!!! You have no say!!!" They get so irritable.

At this point, I'm not sure if they're trying to convince those who see Axl's band as fake Gn'R or just themselves.

[majormayhem]

I do enjoy how much it bothers some that most people don't see NuGNR as GNR. "But it's a fact!!! You have no say!!!" They get so irritable.

At this point, I'm not sure if they're trying to convince those who see Axl's band as fake Gn'R or just themselves.

Hey! Dizzy Reed is GnR.

Tommy has been in the band longer than any of the guys who wrote and recorded the Guns n Roses catalogue of music. So who are you trying to fool with this "fake" band shit?!

Edited March 27, 2015 by majormayhem

[ZoSoRose]

I don't think any of these bands are nostalgia bands really. Other than U2 who just rape nostalgia over and over. They all have an element of it but all do enough. It's not a perfect reconstruction in sepia tones.

The Stones show now and Guns is similar nostalgia wise. They arent Abba by a long chalk line of white powder.

The fuck you been?