Messages not being on Libertad - what the hell were they thinking?

[DieselDaisy]

Libertad is probably the best post classic guns work without 'Izzy Stradlin' on the front cover.

[Free Bird]

At the end of the day,

Suckertrain Blues

Big Machine

Illegal

Spectacle

Headspace

Superhuman

Dirty Little Thing

All numetal turds. Plus, where is Slash? He is barely on any of them!

I wouldn't consider Sucker Train Blues and Dirty Little Thing numetal. Also I do hear him very well on both of these songs

You're right with the rest though I really like Big Machine

Edited June 10, 2015 by Free Bird

[DieselDaisy]

I guess I just don't like modern American rock. Yanks started producing crap like Limp Biscuits while Britain had Oasis and Blur. The brilliance in music at that point had definitely shifted back to the mother country.

[Towelie]

At the end of the day,

Suckertrain Blues

Big Machine

Illegal

Spectacle

Headspace

Superhuman

Dirty Little Thing

All numetal turds. Plus, where is Slash? He is barely on any of them!

Really? There is a massive long solo on Dirty Little Thing and the whole of Superhuman is centred around Slash's riffing. I'll give you the other ones though.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Towelie

[J Dog]

I like the style contrast between the two albums. Contraband for your big time rock thing, which I think they nailed. Libertad for your different, pop type of album. Gives you some choice when you want to listen to them. Last Fight, Let it Roll, American Man, Get out the Door, Drop that Dime are standouts for me.

And why wasn't this on the album

Edited June 11, 2015 by J Dog

[ChineseIRS]

I never liked Libertad, but recently revisited it this year and now I really enjoy it. There are some good songs on there.

[Tom-Ass]

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

Agreed. I hated Contraband and liked Libertad. For some reason however you and I are in the minority!

I love Libertad.. Never understood the dislike for it.. Contraband has some stronger songs but overall I think Libertad was a better album.

[metallex78]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.
There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll
It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.
I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

[Len Cnut]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.

There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll

It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.

I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

I thought thats what we loved from Slash, case in point Appetite.

[metallex78]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.

There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll

It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.

I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

I thought thats what we loved from Slash, case in point Appetite.

Appetite is the furthest thing from pop I can think of. It may sound tame these days going by todays music, but I'd hardly call it pop music.

I started listening to Guns because I hated pop music, and I'm sure many other Guns fans are the same.

[Len Cnut]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.

There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll

It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.

I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

I thought thats what we loved from Slash, case in point Appetite.

Appetite is the furthest thing from pop I can think of. It may sound tame these days going by todays music, but I'd hardly call it pop music.

I started listening to Guns because I hated pop music, and I'm sure many other Guns fans are the same.

Tame has nothing to do with it, you can sound vicious and be pop music. People have this association with pop that it means Britney Spears or being manufactured but i meant more in the sense of they were signed to a major record label, they made a really tight album of 3 to 4 minute verse-chorus-verse stuff and it's tightly produced and quite polished sounding.

I mean rock n roll was the premier format of pop music before the 90s when hip hop really exploded, it wasn't meant to be an insult or anything, The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, these were all pop groups really and referred to as such in their day. It's a very pop album. Same with Nevermind the Bollocks by The Sex Pistols, arguably my favorite band. GnR had good catchy pop tunes and thats what drew people in, not this idea of danger, if the tunes ain't there then you ain't gonna make it in the charts no matter what image you project.

I started listening to Guns n Roses cuz they sounded raw and energetic and the attitude appealed to me...but had they not made catchy music the appeal would not have lasted long

Edited June 13, 2015 by Len B'stard

[metallex78]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.

There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll

It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.

I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

I thought thats what we loved from Slash, case in point Appetite.

Appetite is the furthest thing from pop I can think of. It may sound tame these days going by todays music, but I'd hardly call it pop music.

I started listening to Guns because I hated pop music, and I'm sure many other Guns fans are the same.

Tame has nothing to do with it, you can sound vicious and be pop music. People have this association with pop that it means Britney Spears or being manufactured but i meant more in the sense of they were signed to a major record label, they made a really tight album of 3 to 4 minute verse-chorus-verse stuff and it's tightly produced and quite polished sounding.

I mean rock n roll was the premier format of pop music before the 90s when hip hop really exploded, it wasn't meant to be an insult or anything, The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, these were all pop groups really and referred to as such in their day. It's a very pop album. Same with Nevermind the Bollocks by The Sex Pistols, arguably my favorite band. GnR had good catchy pop tunes and thats what drew people in, not this idea of danger, if the tunes ain't there then you ain't gonna make it in the charts no matter what image you project.

I started listening to Guns n Roses cuz they sounded raw and energetic and the attitude appealed to me...but had they not made catchy music the appeal would not have lasted long

Well, your idea of pop music and what I hear in Guns differs to mine.

I loathe pop music, and I don't consider Guns pop music, simply because they became popular.

I guess when it comes down to it, I don't like pop music, but I love the excellent guitar playing of Slash on Appetite. But on Libertad, I don't hear much of that same excellent guitar playing, that got me into Slash and Guns

Contraband at least had some great heavy rock guitar on there, which is what I liked in Guns, but it sounds pretty bland and poppy on Libertad, outside of a few songs.

[DieselDaisy]

Strange, all this talk of numetal on Contraband, but I don't hear it. it's probably closer to 90's grunge rock, than numetal.

Numetal is like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park, and I don't hear that on Contraband.

There's no doubt they were trying to make a modern rock album, but it's not numetal.

Liber-turd, is bland as hell though. And the guitars sound like shit on it. Dave Kushner's guitar sounds like fart noises on Let It Roll

It's the only Slash-related album I never listen to.

As for Messages, it's probably the better song of a bad bunch, but I don't think it's that great either.

I really liked Libertad, first American rock album I've liked in many many years too. Less of the metal end of things and more groove and polish and focus on tightly written pop songs.

That's probably why so many Guns fans disliked Libertad.

I know that don't want to hear a polished tightly written pop song from Slash, I'd prefer to hear some big fuck off rock n roll.

I thought thats what we loved from Slash, case in point Appetite.

Appetite is the furthest thing from pop I can think of. It may sound tame these days going by todays music, but I'd hardly call it pop music.

I started listening to Guns because I hated pop music, and I'm sure many other Guns fans are the same.

Tame has nothing to do with it, you can sound vicious and be pop music. People have this association with pop that it means Britney Spears or being manufactured but i meant more in the sense of they were signed to a major record label, they made a really tight album of 3 to 4 minute verse-chorus-verse stuff and it's tightly produced and quite polished sounding.

I mean rock n roll was the premier format of pop music before the 90s when hip hop really exploded, it wasn't meant to be an insult or anything, The Beatles, The Stones, The Who, these were all pop groups really and referred to as such in their day. It's a very pop album. Same with Nevermind the Bollocks by The Sex Pistols, arguably my favorite band. GnR had good catchy pop tunes and thats what drew people in, not this idea of danger, if the tunes ain't there then you ain't gonna make it in the charts no matter what image you project.

I started listening to Guns n Roses cuz they sounded raw and energetic and the attitude appealed to me...but had they not made catchy music the appeal would not have lasted long

Well, your idea of pop music and what I hear in Guns differs to mine.

I loathe pop music, and I don't consider Guns pop music, simply because they became popular.

I guess when it comes down to it, I don't like pop music, but I love the excellent guitar playing of Slash on Appetite. But on Libertad, I don't hear much of that same excellent guitar playing, that got me into Slash and Guns

Contraband at least had some great heavy rock guitar on there, which is what I liked in Guns, but it sounds pretty bland and poppy on Libertad, outside of a few songs.

See I think the reverse: I think that it is Libertad that has Slash's presence and Slash is totally absent on Contraband. Weird, opinions, ehh?

[Towelie]

I have revisited Libertad since I started this post and it's definitely better than I remembered. Let It Roll, Pills Demons Etc, Quick Machines and Spay are all fun rockers with solid hooks. American Man has some great guitar playing from Slash (probably his best on any VR track) and I always loved Don't Drop That Dime.

I think whilst I preferred Contraband at the time, Libertad has aged better. Still a crime about Messages though.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Towelie

[EvH]

The albums aren't helped by the muddy production and, most of all, the awfully brickwalled mastering. Saturates all the time.

[Intercourse]

Like CD, Libertad is an album that irritates me for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.