Here’s Why I’d Hate A Guns N’ Roses Reunion

[Apollo]

nobody cares about cd2

I would rather get CD2 over a GnR jukebox tour any day of the week.

So your statement is wrong.

[Bono]

This essay is brilliant: http://www.stereogum.com/1844250/heres-why-id-hate-a-guns-n-roses-reunion/franchises/essay/

Particularly these ending paragraphs:

Most disheartening of all, though, is what this reunion would mean for Axl Rose’s legacy: He’d be downgrading from “paranoid, perfectionistic, and tyrannical” to “acquisitive, avaricious, and cynical.” He’d be evolving from “genuine eccentric” to “just another middle-aged musician trading on nostalgia, trying to cash in while cash is still on the table.” He’d be dismissing the goodwill of every fan who dedicated serious time to Chinese Democracy, every fan who heard that spoken-sung Count Chocula accent and wondered, How and why the holy hell did he come up with THAT? After spending more than 11 years and $13 million on Chinese Democracy, he’d be disowning the thing. His magnum opus, disavowed. More than a decade of his life, tossed aside in favor of rehashing songs he co-wrote when he was 23 years old, when Ronald Reagan was in office. He’d be betraying us a little bit, but he’d be betraying himself a whole lot more.

He’d also be shutting the door on those Chinese Democracy sequels. In the case of the remix album, that’s probably a good thing. Nobody wants that. I’m not even sure anybody would release that. But I, for one, was sincerely and eagerly looking forward to hearing the “second half” of Chinese Democracy, irrespective of how the world at large might respond to such a proposition. I mean it! I didn’t expect that album to yield a vast trove of great music, but Axl Rose rarely puts his name on anything that’s not at least pretty good and inherently interesting. Furthermore, the very existence of both those albums — even if they existed chiefly in Axl Rose’s imagination — suggested an artist altogether unmoored from reality, and therefore, an artist guided by an idiosyncratic muse, an artist uninterested in making a profit or pleasing anyone.

Scoff all you like, but those choices require an almost religious-fanatical commitment; a commitment to a deluded worldview, yes, but a commitment that’s all too rare in art today. We need more musicians like batshit Axl Rose: musicians who pursue their vision at any cost, financial or personal. We don’t need more reunion tours: reprehensible cash-grabs that spurn integrity and monetize nostalgia. If caring about music is supposed to mean something — anything — we need at least a handful of unyielding, unreasonable, uncompromising iconoclasts to give it definition, to give us direction. Where do we go? Where do we go now?

I couldn't agree more.

This is such a fucking crock of shit. A reunion restores Axl Rose's legacy and anyone who thinks the stuff said in this is such a delusional Axl Rose fanboy it's not even funny. We don't need more musicians like Axl Rose who sit on their fucking ass for 20 years releasing one medicore record and touring off his old band's legacy. Axl Rose became a complete fucking joke and the only way for him to be considred a great rockstar once again is to reunite with the old band and hopefully even release music with the old band. And oh boo fucking hoo he's shutting the door on the CD sessions. Nobody cares and nobody has 40 fucking years to wait for the CD sessions. Axl Rose already cast aside the last 20 years of his life doing next to NOTHING. People who think he's been on this creative crusade loaded with integrity and honor are... to be blunt Idiots.

Seriously I am actually concerend for the mental state of anyone who thinks this shit. Nutsinging, zealot, fanboy delusions. It's basically celebrity obsession in the most unhealthy way.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Bono

[rocknroll41]

It's possible what we may get in the next few years is something similar to what Kiss fans got from 1995 to 1998.

a reunion with the label agreeing to release an album with the alternate line-up as a comprise, but at least one song with the classic members so that they can put a sticker on it saying "featuring the original line-up" or something to that affect to boost sales.

Axl wouldn't even have to put up with working with any of the classic guys in the studio now if he doesn't want to since some unreleased songs with them already exist.

I mean, you got Down By the Ocean, the "Slash seed" song Richard had mentioned, the three Slash songs Axl thought about putting on CD back in 2001, that alternate Fall to Pieces with Axl whistling from the 1994 Estranged doc, the shit with Zakk Wylde, and probably some other Steph Seymour ballads that Slash and co may have added bits and pieces to back in the day...just one or two of those tacked onto the rest of CD2 would probably be enough for the label to go "ok, whatever"

Edited November 19, 2015 by rocknroll41

[DieselDaisy]

It's possible what we may get in the next few years is something similar to what Kiss fans got from 1995 to 1998.

a reunion with the label agreeing to release an album with the alternate line-up as a comprise, but at least one song with the classic members so that they can put a sticker on it saying "featuring the original line-up" or something to that affect to boost sales.

Axl wouldn't even have to put up with working with any of the classic guys in the studio now if he doesn't want to since some unreleased songs with them already exist.

I mean, you got Down By the Ocean, the "Slash seed" song Richard had mentioned, the three Slash songs Axl thought about putting on CD back in 2001, that alternate Fall to Pieces with Axl whistling from the 1994 Estranged doc, the shit with Zakk Wylde, and probably some other Steph Seymour ballads that Slash and co may have added bits and pieces to back in the day...just one or two of those tacked onto the rest of CD2 would probably be enough for the label to go "ok, whatever"

Yes but the Kiss thing was a massive con-trick which was universally reviled, both at the time and now. Gene and Paul did not exactly want people to know that Peter and Ace were not playing, but as soon as everybody heard the album they said, ''that is not Peter and Ace playing'' and the backlash began.

Is this what you want Axl to do, as, and I am sure I do not need to remind you, he is already fairly unpopular?

Edited November 19, 2015 by DieselDaisy

[wasted]

I doubt they would hide it. The parts added by Slash and Duff would be reported as part of the build up to the release. Like Ron and Frank for CD.

[Randy Jesus]

I doubt they would hide it. The parts added by Slash and Duff would be reported as part of the build up to the release. Like Ron and Frank for CD.

Are you positive on that. Really, Like really HIV positive on that. Well surely you are. Because the cover of the next album probably would feature, Axl, Duff, and Slash on the front and Fortus, frank, Dizzy, and Pitman hidden in the back ground. That is if an album is released.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Randy Jesus

[wasted]

I doubt they would hide it. The parts added by Slash and Duff would be reported as part of the build up to the release. Like Ron and Frank for CD.

Are you positive on that. Really, Like really HIV positive on that. Well surely you are. Because the cover of the next album probably would feature, Axl, Duff, and Slash on the front and Fortus, frank, Dizzy, and Pitman hidden in the back ground. That is if an album is released.

I doubt they would be saying here's the reunion album with Slash and Duff, then the album is Tobias and Finck songs with Buckethead solos.

Axl will say something like this is the second half of CD, Slash and Duff play on 3 of the songs. Fortus plays lead on some, most solos are Bucket and Finck.

[ChineseIRS]

Id trade everything thats happened for the last 20 years for the band to have stayed together in '96. One album, no matter how good it is, in 20 years is not good enough trade off.

Edited November 19, 2015 by ChineseIRS

[KinseyHolley]

A reunion without new music would just be shit.

A bunch of overweight men with saggy tits and receding hairlines playing the same tired songs they've been whoring for the last 20 years. Once the novelty of seeing Axl and Slash share the same stage wears off, it's going to be really dull unless they make another record together.

With or without a new album you will be getting a bunch of overweight men with saggy tits and receding hairlines so a new album will not a some magical fountain of youth.

I saw a pic of Izzy and Duff circa August 2015 - Izzy's hair might be thinning but it's not receding and neither of them has saggy tits. Axl, on the other hand...and that's not a gratuitous slap at Axl like I usually do. That's just an observation. Axl was always self indulgent in a way Duff and Izzy weren't, despite the latters' addictions

[Słash]

I LOL'D at every fan who dedicated serious time to Chinese Democracy.

The follow up has been recorded so many years ago, the question is why he is not releasing it, its because he doesn't cares. Like man it takes 5 years to mix an album?

[Intercourse]

I love how many Axl fans still believe in the mythology that Axl's divorce from the old band was to protect his heartfelt mission to bring his own unique musical vision to the world.

The unseemly fact of the matter is that Axl left the old guys because they wouldn't give him the band both musically and financially to do with as he wished .

There is nothing more.

He tried to spin away his greed by presenting some bullshit story about Slash not wanting to work as hard as him at giving the band a musical legacy that was appropriate.

What did Axl do with GNR when it was all his? He fucked off to his mansion and let his new employees tinker endlessly with every bell and whistle imaginable in an expensive studio while he made the odd phone call into the engineers with instructions and complaints about the results. No singing, no leadership, no guts, balls or fuck yous. Just a millionaire singer trying to buy his next hit album.

The curve has been trending downwards ever since, until we have women paid to get their arses out in a casino while Axl plonks away on a piano with playing cards drawn on the side.

That article is fanboy fantasy - the realities of Axl Rose are much more mundane and commercial, just like the realities of all the other fifty something musicians chasing their pension pot loot.

I don't care if they are fat, tired etc. if they do like U2 and get up there and play their saggy old tits off to the best of their abilities with real heart and guts, maybe even with an album of tunes they care something about, I'll finish my journey with this band a happy (saggy tits) middle aged man.

[Silent Jay]

I'd hate to see Terry Balsamo playing the opening notes of Sweet Child nex time.

[Strange Broue]

This essay is brilliant: http://www.stereogum.com/1844250/heres-why-id-hate-a-guns-n-roses-reunion/franchises/essay/

Particularly these ending paragraphs:

Most disheartening of all, though, is what this reunion would mean for Axl Rose’s legacy: He’d be downgrading from “paranoid, perfectionistic, and tyrannical” to “acquisitive, avaricious, and cynical.” He’d be evolving from “genuine eccentric” to “just another middle-aged musician trading on nostalgia, trying to cash in while cash is still on the table.” He’d be dismissing the goodwill of every fan who dedicated serious time to Chinese Democracy, every fan who heard that spoken-sung Count Chocula accent and wondered, How and why the holy hell did he come up with THAT? After spending more than 11 years and $13 million on Chinese Democracy, he’d be disowning the thing. His magnum opus, disavowed. More than a decade of his life, tossed aside in favor of rehashing songs he co-wrote when he was 23 years old, when Ronald Reagan was in office. He’d be betraying us a little bit, but he’d be betraying himself a whole lot more.

He’d also be shutting the door on those Chinese Democracy sequels. In the case of the remix album, that’s probably a good thing. Nobody wants that. I’m not even sure anybody would release that. But I, for one, was sincerely and eagerly looking forward to hearing the “second half” of Chinese Democracy, irrespective of how the world at large might respond to such a proposition. I mean it! I didn’t expect that album to yield a vast trove of great music, but Axl Rose rarely puts his name on anything that’s not at least pretty good and inherently interesting. Furthermore, the very existence of both those albums — even if they existed chiefly in Axl Rose’s imagination — suggested an artist altogether unmoored from reality, and therefore, an artist guided by an idiosyncratic muse, an artist uninterested in making a profit or pleasing anyone.

Scoff all you like, but those choices require an almost religious-fanatical commitment; a commitment to a deluded worldview, yes, but a commitment that’s all too rare in art today. We need more musicians like batshit Axl Rose: musicians who pursue their vision at any cost, financial or personal. We don’t need more reunion tours: reprehensible cash-grabs that spurn integrity and monetize nostalgia. If caring about music is supposed to mean something — anything — we need at least a handful of unyielding, unreasonable, uncompromising iconoclasts to give it definition, to give us direction. Where do we go? Where do we go now?

I couldn't agree more.

He’d be betraying us a little bit, but he’d be betraying himself a whole lot more.

Nice essay, but this is inevitable after what went down with his "vision"

Most of the failures caused by him (i woud say the "brandname" is hard to live up to, though) but he failed on almost every aspection of his vision

This is a fact, sad but true. He can still make a buck with the hired hand line ups, but c'mon, outside of South America he hardly sell out an arena and in North America he only soud out Vegas residencies which is a crying shame and hilarious at the same time...

All in all, a reunion remained the only "salvation" or an option to him.

This is more than clear after 75% of his band members left

Anybody who still think a follow up for Chinese hold any possibillity to become "big" again or he will rerecord the other songs with the classic line up is delusional, imho

but Axl Rose rarely puts his name on anything that’s not at least pretty good and inherently interesting.

see Appetite for Democracy... 'nuff said

if he would still give a shit about his name, then he would fire TB immediately after that incident... but you can't fire your family... that is why it's bad if you mix the two

Edited November 19, 2015 by Strange Broue

[Strange Broue]

This essay is brilliant: http://www.stereogum.com/1844250/heres-why-id-hate-a-guns-n-roses-reunion/franchises/essay/

Particularly these ending paragraphs:

Most disheartening of all, though, is what this reunion would mean for Axl Rose’s legacy: He’d be downgrading from “paranoid, perfectionistic, and tyrannical” to “acquisitive, avaricious, and cynical.” He’d be evolving from “genuine eccentric” to “just another middle-aged musician trading on nostalgia, trying to cash in while cash is still on the table.” He’d be dismissing the goodwill of every fan who dedicated serious time to Chinese Democracy, every fan who heard that spoken-sung Count Chocula accent and wondered, How and why the holy hell did he come up with THAT? After spending more than 11 years and $13 million on Chinese Democracy, he’d be disowning the thing. His magnum opus, disavowed. More than a decade of his life, tossed aside in favor of rehashing songs he co-wrote when he was 23 years old, when Ronald Reagan was in office. He’d be betraying us a little bit, but he’d be betraying himself a whole lot more.

He’d also be shutting the door on those Chinese Democracy sequels. In the case of the remix album, that’s probably a good thing. Nobody wants that. I’m not even sure anybody would release that. But I, for one, was sincerely and eagerly looking forward to hearing the “second half” of Chinese Democracy, irrespective of how the world at large might respond to such a proposition. I mean it! I didn’t expect that album to yield a vast trove of great music, but Axl Rose rarely puts his name on anything that’s not at least pretty good and inherently interesting. Furthermore, the very existence of both those albums — even if they existed chiefly in Axl Rose’s imagination — suggested an artist altogether unmoored from reality, and therefore, an artist guided by an idiosyncratic muse, an artist uninterested in making a profit or pleasing anyone.

Scoff all you like, but those choices require an almost religious-fanatical commitment; a commitment to a deluded worldview, yes, but a commitment that’s all too rare in art today. We need more musicians like batshit Axl Rose: musicians who pursue their vision at any cost, financial or personal. We don’t need more reunion tours: reprehensible cash-grabs that spurn integrity and monetize nostalgia. If caring about music is supposed to mean something — anything — we need at least a handful of unyielding, unreasonable, uncompromising iconoclasts to give it definition, to give us direction. Where do we go? Where do we go now?

I couldn't agree more.

This is such a fucking crock of shit. A reunion restores Axl Rose's legacy and anyone who thinks the stuff said in this is such a delusional Axl Rose fanboy it's not even funny. We don't need more musicians like Axl Rose who sit on their fucking ass for 20 years releasing one medicore record and touring off his old band's legacy. Axl Rose became a complete fucking joke and the only way for him to be considred a great rockstar once again is to reunite with the old band and hopefully even release music with the old band. And oh boo fucking hoo he's shutting the door on the CD sessions. Nobody cares and nobody has 40 fucking years to wait for the CD sessions. Axl Rose already cast aside the last 20 years of his life doing next to NOTHING. People who think he's been on this creative crusade loaded with integrity and honor are... to be blunt Idiots.

Seriously I am actually concerend for the mental state of anyone who thinks this shit. Nutsinging, zealot, fanboy delusions. It's basically celebrity obsession in the most unhealthy way.

Aren't you the one who think Axl should re-record the follow up with the classic members?

[rocknroll41]

Haven't read thru this whole thread. Did anyone bring up the essay writer's rather disturbing obsession with that one silly line in Sorry? Did he never stop consider the possibility that Axl just jokingly sang it that way on the spot and then decided to go with it for shits and giggles? Not everything the man does has to be a result of his (lol)"genius"

[SoulMonster]

Haven't read thru this whole thread. Did anyone bring up the essay writer's rather disturbing obsession with that one silly line in Sorry? Did he never stop consider the possibility that Axl just jokingly sang it that way on the spot and then decided to go with it for shits and giggles? Not everything the man does has to be a result of his (lol)"genius"

I don't think it is being portrayed as being a result of his "genius" but rather his eccentricity and one of many examples of wierd choices made by Axl when creating music.

[TeeJay410]

I like anything that brings up the Chuck Klosterman Chinese Democracy review. That is probably the single best piece of writing on the album.

[Billsfan]

Whoever wrote that wrote it for readers of the sort you'd find on forums like this.

He's fucking spot on.

except he isn't. At all.

He is, it would be a soulless cash-grab that would go against literally everything Axl has stood for, for nearly two decades. Regardless of the fact he totally fucked it up, it would mean the intentions behind it were also totally meaningless.

No, it wouldn't necessarily be. It would be axl growing up, letting go of childish grudges, and coming to terms with the fact that the newgnr just never could top the old. Believe me bud, when Chinese came out I wanted singles and videos for Cd, better, sod, irs, this I love, shacklers, and If there's time scraped and sorry. Hell, I wanted prostitute on the avatar soundtrack with a video featuring highlights from the movie and the band. I wanted multiple albums and for the new band to rival the old.. It just was never possible. In my dreams? Maybe. Actually yes. In reality? No. Bucket and robin had a shot, bumblefoot I loved but he never stood a chance and ashba turned out to be a joke for this band. Brains better than frank.

I'm sorry, but even I have to give up on Chinese. It wasn't a failure, it never stood a chance by the time it got released. It isn't axl admitting that he's a failure, it's just him coming to terms with what his fans want. His fans will always want the old hits, and they'll always want it played by the guys who played them with the guy who sang them.

Sorry man, hate to break it to ya, but just because axl said "one of us will die" (a quote many of you can't remember for some reason") and "not in this lifetime", doesn't mean shit in the world of axl rose. Shit happens, people change, and axls mind changes a lot. To try and hold some frustration with him because he's no longer bitter and has grown up is just some messed up, lonely, loser holding on to something that never existed. Argue cash grab all you want, but it's a fucking insult to have bumblefoot and ashba continue on covering slashs solo when neither one of them could hold his jockstrap in a million years.

Let it go.. If axl rose can, so can you.

[Nick85]

Keep coming back to this article. Can't believe how perfectly it articulates my feelings regarding GNR at the moment.

[gunsfanoldie]

Here's what I don't get about the article. He's basically saying he'd rather Axl never compromise than go back to something he isn't anymore. But Axl never comprising means Axl doing nothing. Axl has already been made a joke. His legacy WILL be that he faded away. And what, thats all at the expense that he kept his integrity? Keeping that integrity is what got me 1 album in 20 years (and the thousands of fantasy albums he has in his head).

I don't like to shit on the guy. I love Axl Rose. But as usual with articles like these and posters here, people forget that this magnum opus he created: HE BARELY EVEN PLAYS LIVE. If he really cared about it, make it a focal point of the set. Instead, the set is still and has been for 30 years Appetite For Destruction heavy, with some Illusions mixed in and some new songs. What this article doesn't say is how THRILLED people were when stuff like Estranged returned and Civil War was back in the set. Yup, 20 year old songs that people freaked out about here. Cause they are actually good. Its what people want to hear. Those songs still make an impact, whereas Chinese songs are entirely interchangeable in the set and get the same middling reaction they always have. And I say that as someone that LOVES Prostitute, the title track (a song I still want to see classic GNR play!), There Was A Time, IRS, etc.

Its just the truth. Axl's not compromising is admirable in one breath and completely disappointing and wasted in the other. The guy makes a good point that we'll never seen 1986 GNR again, and maybe thats for the best. But would it really hurt to try and see if classic GNR reinvigorates him? He's had 20 years to make his mark with new guys. He didn't. He was as unproductive as he was productive in a 6 year period. Everyone will say "but he's older, thats hardly fair." Bullshit, he chose to not release the album for 10 years. Thats hardly debatable. Could've played the whole thing live in 2002 if his label wasn't letting him put it out. Give me a break. The idea that he's betraying people by going back to old GNR is laughable to me. The same could be said that he's betraying the people that loved him back then because he refuses to revisit it! I get that people invested a lot of time into the Chinese period. I won't say your wrong and I also won't say its over. No one knows. But you mix actual relevant facts (the band will not be what it once was no matter how much you try) with completely biased ones (I don't want him to return to old GNR just to spite people because I sat through and dissected the Chinese years) altogether too much in this article for me to take it seriously. I like that the guy obviously knows his shit, but in the end it reads as one long "people said I was wrong to continue with this band, I don't want them to be right."

[SoulMonster]

Here's what I don't get about the article. He's basically saying he'd rather Axl never compromise than go back to something he isn't anymore. But Axl never comprising means Axl doing nothing.

Nah, Axl's uncompromising nature already gave us CD, and it might give us the second half some time in the, probably distant, future. I take the faint possibility of CDII over him reuniting with former members just to appease fans who for nostalgic reasons wants to see them together or for quick bucks. This is expressed much more eloquently than what I can do in the article in the first post.

And yeah, I know there are many other scenarious than just these two.

[gunsfanoldie]

Here's what I don't get about the article. He's basically saying he'd rather Axl never compromise than go back to something he isn't anymore. But Axl never comprising means Axl doing nothing.

Nah, Axl's uncompromising nature already gave us CD, and it might give us the second half some time in the, probably distant, future. I take the faint possibility of CDII over him reuniting with former members just to appease fans who for nostalgic reasons wants to see them together or for quick bucks. This is expressed much more eloquently than what I can do in the article in the first post.

And yeah, I know there are many other scenarious than just these two.

But... but... what if it never comes out? What are you gonna say then, and at that point it will be too late to do anything else. Its been a year since he said the "second half" Chinese thing. Over a year! And there's been nothing! I want to believe the guy, but in the last 20 years he's given me no reason to do that! I'm really not against him, but he's been incredibly lazy since 2000, barely touring an album that came out 7 years too late. And back then people were like "it wasn't even what he wanted." How many excuses are we gonna make for this guy?!!

I don't want to get off topic. I really would love to have a legit serious discussion about it, although maybe there's nothing left to say besides that we agree to disagree. But I just don't get how you saying his "uncompromising nature already gave us CD" as if thats such an unequivocally good thing. Whether any of us like it is besides the point. There's always the other side of there could have been more releases, and they could have been better ones. Why would you rather CDII (which as always, we don't even know is an actual thing) than playing the songs he already plays live now with the original members that recorded them? I just can't fathom that. I get not moving in reverse and always looking forward. But again, the guy has had 20 years and we're moving at a snail's pace. Its like presidential parties. Maybe its finally time for a change and a new direction. I just don't get how 20 years wasn't enough to prove that something just isn't happening... but I guess some will defend Axl till the day he dies.

Again, I'm fine to have a rational discussion about it unless thats just not possible.

[SoulMonster]

Here's what I don't get about the article. He's basically saying he'd rather Axl never compromise than go back to something he isn't anymore. But Axl never comprising means Axl doing nothing.

Nah, Axl's uncompromising nature already gave us CD, and it might give us the second half some time in the, probably distant, future. I take the faint possibility of CDII over him reuniting with former members just to appease fans who for nostalgic reasons wants to see them together or for quick bucks. This is expressed much more eloquently than what I can do in the article in the first post.

And yeah, I know there are many other scenarious than just these two.

But... but... what if it never comes out?

Call me a risk taker.

[gunsfanoldie]

Here's what I don't get about the article. He's basically saying he'd rather Axl never compromise than go back to something he isn't anymore. But Axl never comprising means Axl doing nothing.

Nah, Axl's uncompromising nature already gave us CD, and it might give us the second half some time in the, probably distant, future. I take the faint possibility of CDII over him reuniting with former members just to appease fans who for nostalgic reasons wants to see them together or for quick bucks. This is expressed much more eloquently than what I can do in the article in the first post.

And yeah, I know there are many other scenarious than just these two.

But... but... what if it never comes out?

Call me a risk taker.

Your risk is potentially disappointing millions of fans and leading to nothing. You've had your risk for decades. The republicans (or whichever party you prefer) have had their day in the sun and time to shine since 1997. Why not let the democrats take over for awhile, and just see what happens? I legitimately don't see how it could be worse, and CDII could always come out somewhere further down the line, if its really completed.

Edited November 19, 2015 by gunsfanoldie

[DieselDaisy]

The article does not make any sense because Axl has been a nostalgia act playing for cash since, 2011 at the very least. As I said, the article would make sense if it was written in 2004 and the reunion rumours were surfacing then.

It is no longer,

Axl, the eccentric visionary meticulously working on his masterpiece

vs

A nostalgic reunion playing the hits for cash.

It is a choice between,

A nostalgic fake band playing the hits for cash

vs

A nostalgic reunion playing the hits for cash