Are Axl's "no shows" exagerrated?

[double talkin jive mfkr]

its cause hes super late so the fucking go homers say he didn't show

that being said

i was at vancouver 2002 and it was the worst fucking party killer on the planet

[Rovim]

To be fair, Axl is still Axl. There was reading, and there was Dublin. Indian on stage sitting at reading, but Axl said he didn't do anything.

Dublin, I think it was a close call and Axl was angry, but he came back.

On top of that, Axl still doesn't prepare for a tour. I don't know if he'll suddenly, motivated by only sheer excitement, cause Slash is back and it's 500 mil on the table, will start to jog 10k every morning, and Beta is on an electric scooter with full running gear on for emotional support.

But it's much better compared to 2002 for example imo. Maybe it will be good enough for Slash. He can potentially agree to only go on 1 tour and see how it goes and insist on a fuck this shit close in the contract. Rock lawyers can do wonders which is always the main factor in reunions.

The only way to do it is to throw a gaggle of lawyers at it and see if your gaggle gets along with the enemy's and if a deal can be struck. When 500 mil is on the table, both gaggles can literally smell it. Victory or death.

Even Steven can be a part of a reunion if Axl wanted that to happen. But it's tricky. Steven has a big mouth and he said some things that probably did a lot of damage. Axl can't trust him. He has trust issues anyway imo.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

From seeing the youtube clips, and reading reports written by spectators, Dublin was one of the most petty arrogant displays I've ever seen in rock.

[Philipm787]

DieselDaisy I was at the 2010 Dublin gig.. It made me really fucking hate one of my hero's for a long time but he came back in 2012 and gave an apology (sort of), I think even he realised he was being a loud mouthed arrogant prick, and then when we came back on in 2010 after we had bottled him off he refused to even acknowledge the crowd who stayed behind for him, me included, (over half of the 15000 went home), and just stood there singing (full of rasp I must say), so us, being Irish, just got pissed and had a great night, still, didn't get home till 5 o clock in the morning!

[DieselDaisy]

DieselDaisy I was at the 2010 Dublin gig.. It made me really fucking hate one of my hero's for a long time but he came back in 2012 and gave an apology (sort of), I think even he realised he was being a loud mouthed arrogant prick, and then when we came back on in 2010 after we had bottled him off he refused to even acknowledge the crowd who stayed behind for him, me included, (over half of the 15000 went home), and just stood there singing (full of rasp I must say), so us, being Irish, just got pissed and had a great night, still, didn't get home till 5 o clock in the morning!

I read a report and apparently he left the venue. He was walking from the venue and all of these venue staff and people were trailing behind him trying to pull him back and convince him to return to the stage. Apparently the way they got him to return was by threatening him with arrest!

[Philipm787]

Unbelievable isn't it, but there are still posters here who will say what he did was 'in the spirit of rawk and roll', I say fuck that

[Rovim]

Unbelievable isn't it, but there are still posters here who will say what he did was 'in the spirit of rawk and roll', I say fuck that

Being a self centered asshole is not very rock n' roll. Very rare. Axl is an abnormality. How dare he be LATE? he was always so responsible. It was the main reason I became a fan and he broke my heart when he pulled that shit in Dublin.

And what a bitch for getting pissed cause people threw shit at the stage and band members. Girly.

[DieselDaisy]

Rovim, you are proof that Axl fans would defend anything this guy does. Axl could literally roger you up the arse, as he has been doing metaphorically throughout his career, and you would turn around and thank him for it.

[Rovim]

Rovim, you are proof that Axl fans would defend anything this guy does. Axl could literally roger you up the arse, as he has been doing metaphorically throughout his career, and you would turn around and thank him for it.

The fact you did not actually address anything I've said in my last 2 posts tells me you've got nothing.

I said he is still himself, still problematic. I gave Dublin and Reading as examples. I think Axl, like he demonstrated at Leeds, 2002, expects the rules to be bent for him so he can, in his mind imo, deliver.

Yet he doesn't prepare for a tour. But he's willing to pay hefty fines for his late start times. That tells me maybe he sees it as something that is not 100% avoidable.

He talked about this in the Jimmy Kimmel interview. Said he was always late. Perhaps it was a bigger, earlier problem of his and not even huge crowds that pay to see him made him see the error of his ways.

He did it in the old days, and he pulled some shenanigans at reading and Dublin. I'm not defending shit. That's just the way I see it. If you can prove me wrong, I'll gladly read your explanation but so far you're just talking a "load of bollocks" as they say.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Rovim, you are proof that Axl fans would defend anything this guy does. Axl could literally roger you up the arse, as he has been doing metaphorically throughout his career, and you would turn around and thank him for it.

The fact you did not actually address anything I've said in my last 2 posts tells me you've got nothing.

I said he is still himself, still problematic. I gave Dublin and Reading as examples. I think Axl, like he demonstrated at Leeds, 2002, expects the rules to be bent for him so he can, in his mind imo, deliver.

Yet he doesn't prepare for a tour. But he's willing to pay hefty fines for his late start times. That tells me maybe he sees it as something that is not 100% avoidable.

He talked about this in the Jimmy Kimmel interview. Said he was always late. Perhaps it was a bigger, earlier problem of his and not even huge crowds that pay to see him made him see the error of his ways.

He did it in the old days, and he pulled some shenanigans at reading and Dublin. I'm not defending shit. That's just the way I see it. If you can prove me wrong, I'll gladly read your explanation but so far you're just talking a "load of bollocks" as they say.

It is an interesting analyse but I prefer the following explanation,

He's a wanker.

A more concise explanation I feel.

[Rovim]

It is an interesting analyse but I prefer the following explanation,

He's a wanker.

A more concise explanation I feel.

Could work. It's how I explain you.

[Philipm787]

Couldn't agree more, good luck to ye

[DieselDaisy]

The fact of the matter is, Axl has a long history of acting like a petulant child. St Louis, he threw himself into the crowd to attack a man who was - wait for it - taking photographs! 2002, he could not even be arsed to turn up to his own comeback tour, and could be found in a plane miles away when his own concert was supposed to begin. Montreal? He could have been the hero of the hour after what happened to James Hetfield. Imagine for instance if Guns had then played an extended set and sent the crowd home satisfied? What did he do? Walk off. Riot ensues.

[Strange Broue]

I mean everywhere i read there's those people bashing Axl for doesn't show up or cancel the show in last minute. Of course i know alot of shows did not start on time BUT "people" on different comment sections on various forums/facebook complain about this so much that it sounds like he is late EVERY show or cancel every now and then. But then again people seem tho get stuck in the 90's and don't realise people change over time..

And people seem to forget all the good things he brought to the music industry.. Hate all the negativity and cruel bashing that's all.

For me personally.. i really don't care wether Axl are on time or 10,20,40 minutes late when i get to see one of the greatest singers/rockers of all time.

Are Axl's "no shows" exagerrated?

Nope

[Rovim]

The fact of the matter is, Axl has a long history of acting like a petulant child. St Louis, he threw himself into the crowd to attack a man who was - wait for it - taking photographs! 2002, he could not even be arsed to turn up to his own comeback tour, and could be found in a plane miles away when his own concert was supposed to begin. Montreal? He could have been the hero of the hour after what happened to James Hetfield. Imagine for instance if Guns had then played an extended set and sent the crowd home satisfied? What did he do? Walk off. Riot ensues.

Your point being? I said he was an asshole and that was nothing new. I said he is self centered. You're just repeating the same shit.

The facts, in my opinion, are: 1. Axl is an asshole 2. he was always an asshole. 3. he will always be an asshole 4. shit has improved in recent years, rumors of reunion, many believe Slash is up for it, Duff is friends again with Axl, did shows with him and everything went smooth.

So riots did, in fact, occur. Late start times piss a lot of people off but Axl has improved, but because it's Axl we're talking about, I'm certain there's always a chance he'll get upset and some shit will go down, but again, I think you are being too harsh on a guy that is clearly insecure and volatile. He has always been like that. Not saying it's not fucked, but why are we surprised about it? and he's doing ok now and explained it in interviews.

So let me tie it all by saying that late start times, irresponsible rock stars are nothing new. It just so happens to be that Axl is not a very stable human being, also a musician.

I was trying to explain earlier: the person that came before the stardom was fucked up. It didn't change for the better, it got worse and even more out of control. Now he is more in control, but still Axl. I think we should consider that maybe some of it is out of his control.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

The fact of the matter is, Axl has a long history of acting like a petulant child. St Louis, he threw himself into the crowd to attack a man who was - wait for it - taking photographs! 2002, he could not even be arsed to turn up to his own comeback tour, and could be found in a plane miles away when his own concert was supposed to begin. Montreal? He could have been the hero of the hour after what happened to James Hetfield. Imagine for instance if Guns had then played an extended set and sent the crowd home satisfied? What did he do? Walk off. Riot ensues.

Your point being? I said he was an asshole and that was nothing new. I said he is self centered. You're just repeating the same shit.

The facts, in my opinion, are: 1. Axl is an asshole 2. he was always an asshole. 3. he will always be an asshole 4. shit has improved in recent years, rumors of reunion, many believe Slash is up for it, Duff is friends again with Axl, did shows with him and everything went smooth.

So riots did, in fact, occur. Late start times piss a lot of people off but Axl has improved, but because it's Axl we're talking about, I'm certain there's always a chance he'll get upset and some shit will go down, but again, I think you are being too harsh on a guy that is clearly insecure and volatile. He has always been like that. Not saying it's not fucked, but why are we surprised about it? and he's doing ok now and explained it in interviews.

So let me tie it all by saying that late start times, irresponsible rock stars are nothing new. It just so happens to be that Axl is not a very stable human being, also a musician.

I was trying to explain earlier: the person that came before the stardom was fuckd up. It didn't change for the better, it got worse and even more out of control. Now he is more in control, but still Axl. I think we should consider that maybe some of it is out of his control.

The only thing I disagree with you about is, I do not see the lateness and hissy fits as something inherently ''rock n' roll'' (and thus excusable) and that I cannot think of many musicians who made such a habit out of it. Even with somebody like Jim Morrison you could apply a rational behind it, that he was boozed up basically, which does not exonerate the behaviour but at least provides an explanation. Axl is late because Axl is late. He is late for lateness's sake. Nobody has managed to find a plausible reason behind it, beyond Del's rather vague excuses about Axl getting mentally prepared. Sebastian Bach recounts an incident at Nassau Coliseum in which the whole stadium was on the verge of a riot and Skid Row were having to extend their set, then Axl walks in as if this is the most normal thing in the world and says, when asked by Bach why he was late, ''I was taking a shower''.

The show ran four hours late and nearly resulted in a riot because Axl was taking a shower! Complete contempt for everybody, his crew, the venue's staff, his band mates and his fans!

[Rovim]

^^^

This is exactly what I'm talking about. A prime example of how you simplify shit that doesn't suit your doomed to fail arguments. Jimbo was drunk! it's understandable.

Axl is late as shit cause he's late as shit. Simple.

Unstable people are often irresponsible. Just cause Axl made it big doesn't mean he'll gain total control over his problems.

Slash said he thinks Axl is volatile, but that it's also what he believes, makes him great.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

The fact he was having a shower when he should have been on stage three hours ago, or flying in his private plane, seems to suggest that he is not unstable in an anxious, non-functional, way, i.e. he has had some breakdown before going on stage. There is also the fact that it became habitual.

It suggests complete contempt to me. Axl does it because he is a wanker.

[SoulMonster]

Occasionally I entertain wild ideas. Let's just imagine Slash is actually returning to the fold, how long do you think he would last if Axl returns to his ways of not showing up on stage on time? How baaad does Slash want this gig?

Guaranteed that will be dealt with via contractual penalties to be honoured by Axl.

And they will hurt enough that he won't do it.

Yeah, pretty much what I am thinking too. I can't imagine Slash involving himself with GN'R again without having some contractual security that Axl won't be all Axl again.

[Seb91]

I don't think Axl's no shows are exaggerated. Personally, I think it's inexcusable to keep people hanging around for hours, I don't see what's 'rock and roll' about inconveniencing your fans. That being said, when I saw Guns in 2010 I booked a hotel as I knew it would finish late so wasn't worrying about getting back but then not everyone who goes to a show will want to book a hotel as well. The late start and potential drama is why I opted to go to Hellfest in 2012 rather than see Guns in the UK. I figured after spending money on travelling to and from the show, eating out, staying in a hotel and of course the ticket price it wouldn't be that much more expensive to go to Hellfest. Plus, if there was any drama then my trip wouldn't be wasted as there was a ton of other bands I wanted to see. The Hellfest show went off without a hitch though - European festivals are made for Axl, the music ends at around 2/3 AM so they can schedule it without a long wait and obviously no one has work the next day. There was no real wait for Guns as they were officially scheduled to come on at about 11.

I think the late starts will be what makes or breaks this alleged reunion. I can't see Slash putting up with it, especially as he has a very successful solo career he can go back to.

Edited December 5, 2015 by BassistSeb

[Rovim]

I think the late starts will be what makes or breaks this alleged reunion. I can't see Slash putting up with it, especially as he has a very successful solo career he can go back to.

100 mil successful? and he seemed kinda bitter when Duff first played with Axl. That suggests he wanted to be a part of it as well imo.

Lawyers can protect Slash. To some extent. Enough I believe that he'll go for it, and not just for the money.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[Seb91]

I think the late starts will be what makes or breaks this alleged reunion. I can't see Slash putting up with it, especially as he has a very successful solo career he can go back to.

100 mil successful? and he seemed kinda bitter when Duff first played with Axl. That suggests he wanted to be a part of it as well imo.

Lawyers can protect Slash. To some extent. Enough I believe that he'll go for it, and not just for the money.

True, I suppose what I meant was that the key challenge will be whether they can get on, late starts are obviously part of that. However, I think enough bands have proved that you don't need to get on to do successful tours

Edited December 5, 2015 by BassistSeb

[Rovim]

I think the late starts will be what makes or breaks this alleged reunion. I can't see Slash putting up with it, especially as he has a very successful solo career he can go back to.

100 mil successful? and he seemed kinda bitter when Duff first played with Axl. That suggests he wanted to be a part of it as well imo.

Lawyers can protect Slash. To some extent. Enough I believe that he'll go for it, and not just for the money.

True, I suppose what I meant was that the key challenge will be whether they can get on, late starts are obviously part of that. However, I think enough bands have proven that you don't need to get on to do successful tours

Which is why I hope Duff changed Axl's mind. I remain cautiously very optimistic, even though I must admit I took Axl seriously when he said nitl. But I believe he knows the clock is ticking for him as an artist in connection to Guns.

And if you're Axl, Slash can be a powerful weapon in the studio and live. Perhaps even more than that: a chance, like Marc said to get rid of all that anger and bitterness that clouded him for so long.

It could end on the right note. 7 years from now. It can be for the right reasons. I believe Axl always had his heart in the right place and as an artist, always true to himself so ultimately, I trust him, even if CD ll is at stake here.

Look what happened with STP. I don't want that for Guns. Why? no good reason to establish a new line up for new Guns if everything is Slash and Duff are ready to play ball.

Don't call it a reunion, just it's the sensible thing to do. How can they hold Axl back? with their perfect chemistry with him? or with the chance to work with him after 20 years?

I want CD ll and nothing else will do, but the band must exist. I won't connect to a new guitar player. That ship has sailed. I won't connect as a fan to a new bass player after Tommy. No way.

And we're still being kept in the dark, but no one is denying shit. So something's up. Eventually we'll know, cause we give them money.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Rovim

[wasted]

I think Duff said he had a connection with Axl because they both suffer from conditions out of their control. Duff has panic attacks and Axl has mood swings. So I think it's legit. The fact Axl is noctural another pointer. He may have to go with his cycles.

[stella]

The thing is, Axl *has* shown that he's able to show up on time when he's motivated to do so. The *consistent* lateness didn't start until Illusions. In the old days when they had club shows, he most assuredly had to show up on time, simply because the club schedules were packed and there were bands after them (even if they were the "headliners"...there's often a closer for the night). If Axl had shown up late all that would have happened is that his own band would have missed their set, would have wasted their own money (since so many of the Sunset Strip clubs had that thing about forcing the bands to sell tickets) and probably would have gotten a reputation for being unreliable and would not have been booked again.

When the band was opening for others? Same thing, more or less. IIRC, Aerosmith's manager told the band, "I don't know what time you're starting, but I know what time you're finishing your set." They showed up on time because there were consequences...and perhaps also because they really respected and liked Aerosmith. I remember reading an interview with Axl during AfD era where he mentioned he'd passed out drunk and forgot they had a show at the old Felt Forum in NYC, but he woke up, showered and rushed to get his butt to the venue on time.

More recently? Slash mentioned in his book that when Izzy agreed to come back to fill in toward the end of the Illusions tour, Axl showed up on the dot for those shows. Similarly when Duff has played with the band he's been on time.

So even though lateness is his nature -- and there are tons of people that are like that, not just rock stars -- Axl has historically seemed to be able to manage it a little better when there were consequences. During the era of widespread lateness, perhaps he didn't seem to understand that there were *still* consequences -- whether that's the fans getting stranded, or his own crew being overtired because they had to strike the set at 3am, bring it to the next city and put it up again twelve hours later.

He has gotten a lot better than this, and as noted, the ticket times have been accurate for the past four years or so. So it seems he's learned and made efforts to improve on that.

I think Duff said he had a connection with Axl because they both suffer from conditions out of their control. Duff has panic attacks and Axl has mood swings. So I think it's legit. The fact Axl is noctural another pointer. He may have to go with his cycles.

Yeah, I remember reading that in Duff's book. It does seem as though he's been able to get through to Axl and understand him a lot better than any of the others, and that they have a really strong connection and friendship. There are videos from the Illusions era where Axl's flipped about something and Duff is right next to him, talking him through it.