Gordon Comstock Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Libertad isn't underrated, it's rightfully regarded as the worse of the two VR albums. Contraband, like it or hate it, was at least a more consistent record (and IMO the better record), whereas Libertad is a great EP spread across an album of filler. And they didn't include Messages, which is arguably their best song, which somehow makes the filler songs suck even more, knowing they could've been replaced by good ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Dog Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Yeah, Messages, Psycho Killer, Come On Come In, should have all been on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Signs Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) I love both albums. The last time I saw them in 2007,they played a great set list and I even saw the fake Alice In Chains open up! http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/velvet-revolver/2007/darien-lake-performing-arts-center-darien-center-ny-3d62503.html Let It Roll She Mine Sucker Train Blues Do It for the Kids Superhuman Big Machine Pills, Demons & Etc Vasoline (Stone Temple Pilots cover) The Last Fight Interstate Love Song (Stone Temple Pilots cover) Patience (Guns N’ Roses cover) Gravedancer Just Sixteen It's So Easy (Guns N’ Roses cover) Get Out the Door Fall to Pieces She Builds Quick Machines Set Me Free Encore: Mr. Brownstone (Guns N’ Roses cover) Sex Type Thing (Stone Temple Pilots cover) Encore 2: Wish You Were Here (Pink Floyd cover) Slither Edited January 23, 2016 by Subtle Signs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mend Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 That, and Scott finally dropped the ball for the first time as a songwriter. This was the first time he bored me with his music. His hooks failed to live up and I started to wonder if giving up dope had killed his creative muse (Scott never got his A-game back, either.).well did you listen do blaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs.Nah, Contraband is by far the better record and not just for the trio of ballads (which are exceptional songs, and better than anything on Libertad). Superhuman has a classic Slash riff (one of his best post-GNR riffs imo), Big Machine is anthemic and instantly catchy (especially the "gotta teach my son how to be a man" refrain), Dirty Little Thing and Slither have great energy, big choruses and amazing solos.Libertad's only good tracks was Last Fight and Messages (which they never even put on the proper album). I don't mind a few of the others, but the quality of songwriting is way below-par for Slash, Duff and Scott. Edited January 23, 2016 by Towelie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs.Nah, Contraband is by far the better record and not just for the trio of ballads (which are exceptional songs, and better than anything on Libertad). Superhuman has a classic Slash riff (one of his best post-GNR riffs imo), Big Machine is anthemic and instantly catchy (especially the "gotta teach my son how to be a man" refrain), Dirty Little Thing and Slither have great energy, big choruses and amazing solos.Libertad's only good tracks was Last Fight and Messages (which they never even put on the proper album). I don't mind a few of the others, but the quality of songwriting is way below-par for Slash, Duff and Scott.Couldn't disagree more. I like Last Fight but that is not even my favourite song(s). My favourite songs are American Man, Pills, Demons and Mary Mary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Contraband was awful, i could hardly listen to it the once through, Libertad i listened to a great many times though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GivenToFly Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I remember reading this forum around the time Libertad came out, and people were loving it, but the reaction gradually got colder, so I guess it just didn't have staying power for the fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeADog93 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs.Nah, Contraband is by far the better record and not just for the trio of ballads (which are exceptional songs, and better than anything on Libertad). Superhuman has a classic Slash riff (one of his best post-GNR riffs imo), Big Machine is anthemic and instantly catchy (especially the "gotta teach my son how to be a man" refrain), Dirty Little Thing and Slither have great energy, big choruses and amazing solos.Libertad's only good tracks was Last Fight and Messages (which they never even put on the proper album). I don't mind a few of the others, but the quality of songwriting is way below-par for Slash, Duff and Scott.Couldn't disagree more. I like Last Fight but that is not even my favourite song(s). My favourite songs are American Man, Pills, Demons and Mary Mary. Mary, Mary is awful!! Libertad would have been much better if they took out She Mine, Mary, Mary, and Just Sixteen and replaced them with Gas And a Dollar Laugh, Messages, and Psycho Killer. Libertad to me is very hit and miss, some great songs (For a Brother, Pills Demons, Last Fight, Gravedancer, American Man) and also some pretty bad ones like the 3 I mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs.Nah, Contraband is by far the better record and not just for the trio of ballads (which are exceptional songs, and better than anything on Libertad). Superhuman has a classic Slash riff (one of his best post-GNR riffs imo), Big Machine is anthemic and instantly catchy (especially the "gotta teach my son how to be a man" refrain), Dirty Little Thing and Slither have great energy, big choruses and amazing solos.Libertad's only good tracks was Last Fight and Messages (which they never even put on the proper album). I don't mind a few of the others, but the quality of songwriting is way below-par for Slash, Duff and Scott.Couldn't disagree more. I like Last Fight but that is not even my favourite song(s). My favourite songs are American Man, Pills, Demons and Mary Mary. Mary, Mary is awful!! Libertad would have been much better if they took out She Mine, Mary, Mary, and Just Sixteen and replaced them with Gas And a Dollar Laugh, Messages, and Psycho Killer. Libertad to me is very hit and miss, some great songs (For a Brother, Pills Demons, Last Fight, Gravedancer, American Man) and also some pretty bad ones like the 3 I mentioned above.Superb riff and leads and catchy 'pop' chorus. I do not know what there is to not like about Mary Mary. My third favourite on the album (after American Man and Pills, Demons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding.Sorry but aren't you a David Bowie and Morrissey fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Mary Mary and Just Sixteen are the gayest songs Slash has ever played on. Not to mention they sound like they belong on a Busted album.I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding.Sorry but aren't you a David Bowie and Morrissey fan? Yeah, but by gay I mean wimpy sounding, a bit limp and poncey, something that you'd find on a boyband album.Mozza and Bowie don't sound gay in that sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Busted have riffs like this!1:22- Contraband is a load of numetal Korny bollocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Busted have riffs like this!1:22- Contraband is a load of numetal Korny bollocksCheck out That's What I Go To School For. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Mary Mary and Just Sixteen are the gayest songs Slash has ever played on. Not to mention they sound like they belong on a Busted album.I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding.Sorry but aren't you a David Bowie and Morrissey fan? Yeah, but by gay I mean wimpy sounding, a bit limp and poncey, something that you'd find on a boyband album.Mozza and Bowie don't sound gay in that sense.The Smiths were the very definition of pop and so was David Bowie really, they were never hard riffing snarl merchants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Name one decent bit of lead playing (outside the ballads) by Slash on contraband? Slash was completely absent on that record. In contrast, American Man and Pills has some of the best lead playing of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Mary Mary and Just Sixteen are the gayest songs Slash has ever played on. Not to mention they sound like they belong on a Busted album.I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding.Sorry but aren't you a David Bowie and Morrissey fan? Yeah, but by gay I mean wimpy sounding, a bit limp and poncey, something that you'd find on a boyband album.Mozza and Bowie don't sound gay in that sense.The Smiths were the very definition of pop and so was David Bowie really, they were never hard riffing snarl merchants.I know, but they didn't sound noncey, well at least not to me.On a completely unrelated point, don't you love these pictures of Mozza?Name one decent bit of lead playing (outside the ballads) by Slash on contraband? Slash was completely absent on that record. In contrast, American Man and Pills has some of the best lead playing of his career.Solos to Slither and Dirty Little Thing. Chuck Berry-esque lead work in the middle of Big Machine. Edited January 23, 2016 by Towelie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I love everything to do with Morrissey by default as it is Morrissey and he is God. Him and Tony Adams that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Mary Mary and Just Sixteen are the gayest songs Slash has ever played on. Not to mention they sound like they belong on a Busted album.I know this might make me sound like a greasy-haired, metal-loving knucklehead, but I always thought Libertad was kinda gay sounding.Sorry but aren't you a David Bowie and Morrissey fan? Yeah, but by gay I mean wimpy sounding, a bit limp and poncey, something that you'd find on a boyband album.Mozza and Bowie don't sound gay in that sense.The Smiths were the very definition of pop and so was David Bowie really, they were never hard riffing snarl merchants.I know, but they didn't sound noncey, well at least not to me.On a completely unrelated point, don't you love these pictures of Mozza?Name one decent bit of lead playing (outside the ballads) by Slash on contraband? Slash was completely absent on that record. In contrast, American Man and Pills has some of the best lead playing of his career.Solos to Slither and Dirty Little Thing. Chuck Berry-esque lead work in the middle of Big Machine.Slither is alright - will give you that. Slither is the only decent rocker on contraband. But listen to American Man. Slash's leads have that epic quality you find on November Rain and Anastasia. There is nothing on Contraband that compares.When I first got Contraband, my overriding thought was ''where's Slash''. ''They have replaced Slash with a Korn guitarist'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Slither is alright - will give you that. Slither is the only decent rocker on contraband. But listen to American Man. Slash's leads have that epic quality you find on November Rain and Anastasia. There is nothing on Contraband that compares.When I first got Contraband, my overriding thought was ''where's Slash''. ''They have replaced Slash with a Korn guitarist''I agree with you about American Man, that's a good tune and Slash shines on it. And I've always though Pills, Demon Etc was underrated. But shit like She Mine and Just Sixteen.... that's Busted crap man, that's not what I want when I buy a hard rock album. Edited January 23, 2016 by Towelie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeADog93 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 It is rather as if the people who are criticising Libertad here, praising Contraband, are (to me) describing completely different albums! Libertad has big pop hooklines, riffs and memorable lead work (e.g. American Man). Songs like She's Mine and Pills, Demons (Slash's wah work!) are infectious rockers. In contrast, Contraband is this ghastly modern rock record with barely any discernible riffs or solos or melodies outside Slither and the ballads. It is full of these forgettable numetal songs; how can anyone say Contraband is 'consistent' with dreary garbage like Illegal, Headspace and Spectacle present? Those three are the very nadir of any of these people's career, however, I'm not even keen on Big Machine and Suckertrain Blues to be honest - they sound like Marilyn Manson songs.Nah, Contraband is by far the better record and not just for the trio of ballads (which are exceptional songs, and better than anything on Libertad). Superhuman has a classic Slash riff (one of his best post-GNR riffs imo), Big Machine is anthemic and instantly catchy (especially the "gotta teach my son how to be a man" refrain), Dirty Little Thing and Slither have great energy, big choruses and amazing solos.Libertad's only good tracks was Last Fight and Messages (which they never even put on the proper album). I don't mind a few of the others, but the quality of songwriting is way below-par for Slash, Duff and Scott.Couldn't disagree more. I like Last Fight but that is not even my favourite song(s). My favourite songs are American Man, Pills, Demons and Mary Mary. Mary, Mary is awful!! Libertad would have been much better if they took out She Mine, Mary, Mary, and Just Sixteen and replaced them with Gas And a Dollar Laugh, Messages, and Psycho Killer. Libertad to me is very hit and miss, some great songs (For a Brother, Pills Demons, Last Fight, Gravedancer, American Man) and also some pretty bad ones like the 3 I mentioned above.Superb riff and leads and catchy 'pop' chorus. I do not know what there is to not like about Mary Mary. My third favourite on the album (after American Man and Pills, Demons). That's exactly why I don't like it, way too poppy for my liking. The lyrics are something you would expect from a boy band, same with She Mine. When I buy a rock album I don't want to hear poppy choruses and lovey dovey lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Thats probably why my position is as it is, i love pop music, i love a tightly written and realised pop song, they reflect a lot more talent than it takes to write generic hard rock song, which are kinda boring to me overall.Its interesting that you say you dont want to hear poppy choruses when you buy a rock album, rock music is pretty specific to that structure, especially mainstream rock music.Which rock bands do you like then? Edited January 23, 2016 by Len B'stard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Except slither, I do not even find contraband 'rock' though, or even 'hard rock'. I find it numetal. It has that horrid production and sound which I associate with late 1990s rock bands. There is nothing singable or bluesy or groovy about it. She's Mine is a great song. Good driving riff and singable chorus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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