Poll for Europeans...

[Snake-Pit]

I want to do a censors... I want to do a Snake-Pit open for all points of view of a single question I'm putting to everyone in Europe...

 

 

Do you actually care about the EU?

 

I feel disclosing my reason at this point in time may compromise my data, so please, be as honest as you can, if you don't care about the EU, love it, hate it, fear it, want in, want out...;

 

Do you care about the EU?

PLEASE PLEASE put what country you are too for this study to make sure it's only those in Europe participate in this and to also, pinpoint what opinion on the EU is felt where in Europe.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[SoulMonster]

Norway, not part of the EU.

Yeah, I care about EU. Not something I think about daily but I like the idea of strengthening the ties between the European nations to prevent conflicts and simplify collaborations (business, secutiry, science) across borders. I don't want EU to fail, even if Norway is outside of it. I do get what coutries don't want to commit to a larger organization like EU, and thus lose some independence, but all in all I think Europe gains from it.

Look at USA for comparison. USA is of course much more integrated than EU, but I think it compares in the sense that some states in the USA perhaps could have benefitted in some ways from not being part of that Union (California, maybe, because of its strong independent economy?), whereas other states benefit greatly. But all in all the benefit for most of the states have been profound through opening up markets to businesses, through federal harmonizations, through creating a global super power that were able to balance Soviet and protect the individual US states but also other areas of the world, simplify the movement of people across states, increased federal scientific collaborations that helped spur on USA's technical progress, etc.

Fact is, some things are more easily achieved when the total popualation mass is sufficiently large and not limited by borders and red tape, whereas a large size in itself causes problems, like a lack of transparency, sense of power to affet a large system, loss of local power and influence, apathy, etc.

Edited June 9, 2016 by SoulMonster

[Strange Broue]

Yes

Hungary (but i will move from here in 3-4 years to Finland)

I'm specifically worried about how the leaders of the European Union handle this recent migration crisis. Seems like they completely ignore what the majority of the citizens of the EU wants. Not to mention the problematic policies regarding to the economy, social politics, working conditions etc.

I'm also worried about my home country, because we've got leaders whom will try to force Hungary to "quit" after the money support from the EU ends (around 2020). If a referendum happens when the people have to vote if they want to stay in the EU or they want the country to quit, the majority will choose to quit, because the aforementioned problems in the EU leadership, not to mention that the public sentiment is that the EU STEALS from us and the EU is bad for us. (which is a flat out bullshit since we take more from the membership than what we give...) People are brainwashed on every side and it's hard to tell what will happen after 2020 so i've decided to move out before things going more uglier. If the money support ends, this country will need "scapegoats" and if we quit, then people start to turn against each other.  Another big problem that there's hardly an alternative of what we have now, because the opposition parties are straight out idiots aand they tend to support the neo liberal tendencies , therefore the country is also fed up with them

 

Here's a decent article (with a little liberal bias, though) about what's happening here and you could also have some perspective about what happens in Eastern Europe in general (although Hungary is still a better and safer place than the Balkans for example)https://meanwhileinbudapest.com/2016/06/04/7-reasons-i-am-leaving-hungary/

Edited June 9, 2016 by Strange Broue

[Len Cnut]

6 hours ago, Snake-Pit said:

I want to do a censors... I want to do a Snake-Pit open for all points of view of a single question I'm putting to everyone in Europe...

I think you mean census young man.

 

[DieselDaisy]

Censors were the magistrates who conducted the Censuses in Republican Rome, the state registration of Roman citizens. Etymologically it is also where we obtain censor, censorious, censorship, etc. as the Censors also were charged with the supervision of public morality.

[Len Cnut]

And there was me taking the mickey out of Snakes, egg on my face

[Graeme]

1 hour ago, Len B'stard said:

And there was me taking the mickey out of Snakes, egg on my face

Pretty sure it's still incorrect word use, so you're alright...

[JaxTeller]

Greece.Not so much.We are in EU and that's the biggest mistake in our history. EU was a great vision but through time,lost it's way.It's more like Germany rules Europe,than a European Union. Here in Greece, we can't decide for our own future.Europeans do.Especially German politicians command and threat the Greek government.

PS: I don't want to be misunderstood. I have NOTHING against German people. Their government and politicians are just disgusting.

[wasted]

Hard to say really. Europe seems like a shambles full of communists and terrorists. EU seems corrupt. Germany lends Greece money so they can buy German products to make Germany strong. It just seems like a big club to borrow money to sustain fake economies. After the second world war Germany were told to shape up and build cars by the US. And now they want to take over again. But of course they need UK and US backing. But maybe that's going to end. 

It's nothing to worry about though, the world will always be a nightmare. I just think UK will be better off hiding behind the US than trying to make friends with Germany and the Middle East. 

[JeanGenie]

Germany.  I see the EU as an instrument to make germany pay off war debts. For years weve been paying billions (if not trillions) to other countries that give fuck all about us. In fact germany is the most hated country in europe although we pay money to everyone and take most of the immigrants.  The EU institutions are led by loser politicians that couldnt make it in the national parliaments. These people support immigration because they want to destroy the national perception to make it easier to create a european super state. 

Nothing against greek people. But greece is a failed state by any means. They shouldn't have been in the EU in the first place. Greece lied its way into the EU because it was financially too weak. Greece still has no working tax system. Greece is not capable to protect its borders. I know germany and the euro group are causing a lot of misery in greece but they could just stop asking for money. Money aint falling from the fucking sky in other countries. 

I think germany should exit the EU and let all the other countries that complain about us start paying their bills themselves.

[The Archer]

On 6/9/2016 at 1:23 PM, JeanGenie said:

Germany.  I see the EU as an instrument to make germany pay off war debts. For years weve been paying billions (if not trillions) to other countries that give fuck all about us. In fact germany is the most hated country in europe although we pay money to everyone and take most of the immigrants.  The EU institutions are led by loser politicians that couldnt make it in the national parliaments. These people support immigration because they want to destroy the national perception to make it easier to create a european super state. 

Nothing against greek people. But greece is a failed state by any means. They shouldn't have been in the EU in the first place. Greece lied its way into the EU because it was financially too weak. Greece still has no working tax system. Greece is not capable to protect its borders. I know germany and the euro group are causing a lot of misery in greece but they could just stop asking for money. Money aint falling from the fucking sky in other countries. 

I think germany should exit the EU and let all the other countries that complain about us start paying their bills themselves.

Not in Europe, but can't help admiring the Germans for the terrific work that they've done in the last few decades and more. They are an engine of capitalism, free enterprise, driven by efficiency, hard work, fairness and strong ideals. Unfortunately, a lot of the bad press they get is because of historical bias and misgivings for errors and wrongs that, though they should never be forgotten, are long past. 

[Kittiara]

I was born and raised in the Netherlands. Live in the UK now, and have done for the last 15 years. I do care about the EU. Normally, though, I don't think about it on a day-to-day basis. This referendum, however, makes it difficult to avoid it.

It's a mess, basically. The currency union wasn't a good idea, considering it's trying to hold together so many different economies. You'll always create winners and losers in such a situation. It's trying to be more than it should be, and it would be best if it were scaled down. Cooperation, yes. Keeping the peace together, yes. Easy trade, yes. But it should be recognised that every country is different, and what works for each country is different.

That said, it's not the monster that some people feel it is. And I really question the decision to hold the referendum now, when the British economy is in an extremely vulnerable position. And during the Euro Cup as well.

I worry about the fact that it's truly difficult, if not impossible for many people, to make a genuine, informed decision on our future ties with the EU. I've seen the campaign materials from both sides. I've read a lot of articles on the referendum. It seems to be all spin, and fearmongering, and speculation. How are people supposed to base an important decision on that?

How many voters will try to do in-depth research before casting their vote? Look at the workings of the EU, look at the economic angle, look at Bank of England reports, ask for real answers from politicians?

The Leave campaign seems to think it will be easy to get trade deals if we exit the EU. Is it really? It seems a bit like dumping your girlfriend, using some proper insults in the process, and then saying, "I did like the blowjobs you gave me, though. I'd like for you to keep on giving them. And you cook a good Sunday roast. You should keep on cooking it for me every week." In other words, it's wanting all the perks and none of the responsibilities, and I don't think it's going to be as straightforward as that.

The Remain campaign is studiously avoiding honest concerns from voters. Issues like immigration, and the TTIP.

So, I don't know. I think that we are facing interesting times...

[November_rain]

Spain. I wish we weren't part of that farce whose only purpose is to anihilate all the autonomy from the countries little by little and leave them unable to rule their own economies. The EU is nothing but a mere disguise where the citizens are treated as objects and whose rights are being taken "legally" in front of their own noses. 

[Len Cnut]

You wanna sort immigration out, here, let me help ya, its a real simple principle right, instead of fucking waiting for these massive influxes pouring over how about this, stop fuckin' attacking other peoples countries, stop military occupations of other countries, stop 'regime changes' (read 'oil raids') and you've killed half the problem already.  And if your bleeding heart bears too heavy for ya go feed the fuckin' poor or whatever, that way you won't have so much of a problem with all these dirty brown folk coming over and making your womenfolk feel uncomfortable.  

There are umpteen fuckin' causes out there, umpteen fuckin' starving countries you could go help out that dont involve arms or oil, just plain nobility if that is your want.

Honestly its fucking comical, everyone wants to help the poor people of 'x' when it involves flying over to their country armed to the fuckin' teeth, ready to 'liberate' their people...suddenly when those same people are fleeing the shithouse that you've helped create suddenly there is no room at the Inn.

[Snake-Pit]

10 hours ago, Kittiara said:

I was born and raised in the Netherlands. Live in the UK now, and have done for the last 15 years. I do care about the EU. Normally, though, I don't think about it on a day-to-day basis. This referendum, however, makes it difficult to avoid it.

It's a mess, basically. The currency union wasn't a good idea, considering it's trying to hold together so many different economies. You'll always create winners and losers in such a situation. It's trying to be more than it should be, and it would be best if it were scaled down. Cooperation, yes. Keeping the peace together, yes. Easy trade, yes. But it should be recognised that every country is different, and what works for each country is different.

That said, it's not the monster that some people feel it is. And I really question the decision to hold the referendum now, when the British economy is in an extremely vulnerable position. And during the Euro Cup as well.

I worry about the fact that it's truly difficult, if not impossible for many people, to make a genuine, informed decision on our future ties with the EU. I've seen the campaign materials from both sides. I've read a lot of articles on the referendum. It seems to be all spin, and fearmongering, and speculation. How are people supposed to base an important decision on that?

How many voters will try to do in-depth research before casting their vote? Look at the workings of the EU, look at the economic angle, look at Bank of England reports, ask for real answers from politicians?

The Leave campaign seems to think it will be easy to get trade deals if we exit the EU. Is it really? It seems a bit like dumping your girlfriend, using some proper insults in the process, and then saying, "I did like the blowjobs you gave me, though. I'd like for you to keep on giving them. And you cook a good Sunday roast. You should keep on cooking it for me every week." In other words, it's wanting all the perks and none of the responsibilities, and I don't think it's going to be as straightforward as that.

The Remain campaign is studiously avoiding honest concerns from voters. Issues like immigration, and the TTIP.

So, I don't know. I think that we are facing interesting times...

The leave campaign are, let's face it, inferior to the remain voters;

 

Let's just hope inferior mindsets don't dictate our future.

[Snake-Pit]

GB - Basically, having been reminded of what it's like to go to Britain (again) over the English Channel (from France); Of this nation. that looks like any other EU nation, but the sky is greyer,  and people on this island are cut off from the mainland by water alone.

There are countless GB people who don't seem to get what the EU really is, because... the UK Border confuses it. Example, when I first went to the continent; I just assumed there'll be checkpoints at least when changing countries; Because then I hadn't been to any other EU country but GB. GB is special, but the being cut off from the rest of Europe, gives this island some island mentality/evolution of thought blind to the reality of looking like the rest of Europe.

Plus, as you set sail towards this rock, you are sort of given the feeling that; you're casting out from Europe to go to this rock that's out there. You can't see it from France, but it's out there, and you're setting sail to go to it.

 

... and then once you get there, (or if you're from London) you're back at home (in London); (I'm not saying you'd set sail for London, chances are you'd see Dover, but I'm from London, so whatever, shutup ); British Airways jets flying in the skies above, Jimmy Page playing guitar on the London Eye across from Westminster and Brian May playing guitar on the roof of Buckingham Palace and it's just a normal day and you're in England again and everything's nice and you're in the one part of Europe that gave you all that music from The Who, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zeppelin to the Damned, Clash and Queen up even to Republica; Bob Marley lived in the town over, I wonder if he ever heard of Croydon? Jimmy Cliff's been spotted in Thornton Heath at friends houses, (not by me);  So you're back at home in the land of the English speaking world, and you're in the EU, but you get to love America; (They don't hate America in the NL, but they don't love love America, like GB); and, who can blame GB; the USA's still one of the greatest thing to ever come out of GB  but yeah, we're in Europe and we are us; we rock basically, Marshall Amps and all. - LOVE this place for culture of music (Soho is so cool) but then, so is a lot of places in London from Camden to Croydon.., That loud and proud guitar tone heritage and the fact that it's not dead in town, and the fact that we're an English speaking country and London speaks international..  Also, we have Macari's who have and Vintage 'N' Rare Guitars in Soho  on Denmark Street & Denmark Street & Charring Cross Road too, a lot of great guitars, saw this Red 1960s Stratocaster for £116, 000.00! in the window of Wunjo guitars once...

You just don't get that in Amsterdam in regards to guitar, and here, we're I'm from - I'm LOVING IT.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[Dazey]

I'm gonna vote leave just to annoy Snakepit. 

[Snake-Pit]

9 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I'm gonna vote leave just to annoy Snakepit. 

I'm going to make love to Indian girl just to piss you off.

[Dazey]

16 minutes ago, Snake-Pit said:

I'm going to make love to Indian girl just to piss you off.

Why on earth would that piss me off? I don't like Indians anyway.

[Snake-Pit]

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Why on earth would that piss me off?..

You got me; It'll be for me... and hopefully her to too. Or them  ... all of us.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Snake-Pit

[Dazey]

Just now, Snake-Pit said:

You got me; It'll be for... and hopefully her to too. Or them  ... all of us.

"Them" eh? Racist!

[AtariLegend]

Way to go anyway England. You'll probably vote us out off the EU, get kicked from Euro 2016 and get stripped off hosting Euro 2020 at this rate all in the space of a few weeks.

Edited June 11, 2016 by AtariLegend

[Strange Broue]

On 2016. 06. 09. at 10:23 PM, JeanGenie said:

Germany.  I see the EU as an instrument to make germany pay off war debts. For years weve been paying billions (if not trillions) to other countries that give fuck all about us. In fact germany is the most hated country in europe although we pay money to everyone and take most of the immigrants.  The EU institutions are led by loser politicians that couldnt make it in the national parliaments. These people support immigration because they want to destroy the national perception to make it easier to create a european super state. 

Nothing against greek people. But greece is a failed state by any means. They shouldn't have been in the EU in the first place. Greece lied its way into the EU because it was financially too weak. Greece still has no working tax system. Greece is not capable to protect its borders. I know germany and the euro group are causing a lot of misery in greece but they could just stop asking for money. Money aint falling from the fucking sky in other countries. 

I think germany should exit the EU and let all the other countries that complain about us start paying their bills themselves.

Umm sorry to disturb you with actual facts

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html

Even France paid almost as much as Germany,  but Merkel and his pals sabotaged the newly elected leadership in Greece (aka "you either do what we told you or you will be fucked")

 

Let me be clear: i'm NOT against german PEOPLE in general, i have tons of german friends but the real  German leadership in the EU will fuck the whole thing up in the long term. Merkel will go down in history as the second Hitler in diplomacy, not to mention the fact that she sucks Putin's cock dry for gas pipelines. Also there's the little tidbit that at the start of the immigration crisis, she CALLED the immigrant masses to come to Germany with false promises and hopes

Wilkommenskultur is failed, but it was an enourmous mistake about how she handled the situation

 

That being said, Greece shouldn't be in the EU in the first place (hell i do think that even my country shouldn't be in the EU in the first place so i'm not "judgemental" or biased)

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Strange Broue

[JeanGenie]

7 minutes ago, Strange Broue said:

Umm sorry to disturb you with actual facts

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html

Even France paid almost as much as Germany,  but Merkel and his pals sabotaged the newly elected leadership in Greece (aka "you either do what we told you or you will be fucked")

 

Let me be clear: i'm NOT aginst german PEOPLE in general, i have tons of german friends but the real  German leadership in the EU will fuck the whole thing up in the long term. Merkel will go down in history as the second Hitler in diplomacy, not to mention the fact that she sucks Putin's cock dry for gas pipelines

 

That being said, Greece shouldn't be in the EU in the first place (hell i do think that even my country shouldn't be in the EU in the first place so i'm not "judgemental" or biased)

 

Germany is the biggest net contributor of the eu.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm

I never said that Germany lended the most to money to greece. But together with all the gurantees germany provided to keep the loser states within the union chances are big that a big part of our wealth is at stake.

[Strange Broue]

29 minutes ago, JeanGenie said:

Germany is the biggest net contributor of the eu.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8036097.stm

I never said that Germany lended the most to money to greece. But together with all the gurantees germany provided to keep the loser states within the union chances are big that a big part of our wealth is at stake.

And your point being?

Just because Germany is the biggest contributor it doesn't mean that they have right to fuck other people with shady bargains and control their goverment

Let me remind you: ALL of the states are contribute to the EU's wealth. Of course there are states that got more than they pay, but if you look at other factors aka WHO is the one who make this money for Germany you could see that a LOT of immigrants from Eastern Europe (Balkans, Turkey)  MAKE this money for Germany, because they took the lesser paid jobs in far worse working conditions than the "native" Germans. It would help a lot to your economy and your people if Merkel and Co. doesn't import immigrant workers from all over Europe (remember, she even reasoned the Refugees Welcome/Wilkommennskultur doctrine with that more cheap workers from the danger zones, yaaay) It would also help a lot if your folks can take the shittier or "blue collar" jobs as much amount of money as Eastern Europeans and/or Migrants from the East. That's is also a solution to the "our wealth at stake" problem....

It's a never ending cycle really... if your fuck people with your loans and make conditions for them that they will be unable to EVER pay it off to you, then this happens.

 

Plus let's not forgot that Turkey get a free pass for EVERYthing ( I think it's safe to say that Turkey become a dictature in the last few years yet the business is good with them lol), because they could also provide cheap workers (like they do in the 60-70-80-90's)  plus they could temporarily stop the migrants therefore do their DUTY for a shitload of money the EU (and also germany) GAVE them (plus a promise for  a quasi membership in the EU).....http://www.migrationpolicy.org/news/paradox-eu-turkey-refugee-deal

 

So while i understand your points and where you coming from, i could safely say that Germany is not the innocent angel here like you depicted Try look at this from other perspectives

Edited June 11, 2016 by Strange Broue