EvanG Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 42 minutes ago, wasted said: Death Magnetic was a nostalgia album. So how much better are they than Guns whose last album was pretty progressive sound wise. Not resting much on nostalgia. I'll give them an unreleased album. But does that warrant shitting on the GNR reunion? Are they really that awesome, revolutionary badasses. No they have sold out to hard rock with Load when thrash faded. What is your definition of a nostalgia album? When a band makes the same kind of same music they made at the beginning of their career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoNobodyToldYaBaby Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Metallica have been a giant turd musically since the 90s, but at least they give their fans new music even if it pales in comparison to their 80s material. Of course they're gonna rely heavily on their 80s records when touring because who's gonna pay to hear deep cuts from St Anger? I dont think that makes them a nostalgia act per say, but i can see why people would think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoNobodyToldYaBaby Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Metallica have been bandwagon hoppers since the black album They saw thrash was dead in the 90s so they made hard rock records (load and reload) They saw nu metal was all the rage so made that giant turd st anger They then saw thrash was having a mini revival so they released death magnetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just now, SoNobodyToldYaBaby said: Metallica have been bandwagon hoppers since the black album They saw thrash was dead in the 90s so they made hard rock records (load and reload) They saw nu metal was all the rage so made that giant turd st anger They then saw thrash was having a mini revival so they released death magnetic Nah, then they would have made a punk-pop record in the mid 90s and a real nu-metal album at the time of St. Anger, which whatever you might think of it, wasn't exactly nu-metal just because of the lack of solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Cavalerra Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 7 hours ago, andy_rose said: Love your signature pic. Would be an awesome wallpaper. Here the original pic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, wasted said: Farts are not nostalgia. 90s rock like Korn and NIN is not nostalgia for the peak of GNR. It's not nostalgia. I'll concede that the Reunion tour is a nostalgia fest. But it's a reunion tour. But mainly Metallica need to shut up before wikileaks exposes them for the nostalgia sellouts they are. #Wikileaks #Makenostalgiagreatagain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 10 hours ago, Apollo said: A fan doesn't have to worship every thing a band does to be considered a fan. Most of are die-hard fans of GnR. But we also are able to think logically and we don't just blindly worship everything he does. ****** Hammitt is 100% correct. GnR has released one album of original music in the last 25 years. What Metallica is doing or whether or not people like their songs has zero - literally zero - to do with lie favorite band just cashing in on songs they wrote 25-30 years ago. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to bash any musician who isn't worshiping Axl and company. Gnr has been a revolving door of musicians with Axl being the only constant. So it's a little disingenuous to say "this band has only been together for X amount of time. Give them time." As far as I know, Guns n Roses has been a band since the mid-80s. This current lineup is just the latest version. I knew it was a matter of time before some fuck hit me with the classic "a fan doesn't have to worship everything the band does" shit. I'm not doing that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said: If progressiveness is merely imitating the then current - and quite dreadful - musical milieu, in this instance 1990s rock (e.g. NIN and Korn), then I believe I do not like progressiveness. I was under the, clearly mistaken impression, that progressiveness was about creating new things! So nostalgic that their fanbase can go to the shops on November 18th and buy a new album of brand spanking new tracks, meanwhile, where are Guns fans? Visa on the same exact setlist played every single night, based upon a discography as small as a bee's penis. You cannot go into a store in one week's time and buy a new GN'R album. Metallica fan's have that pleasure, in regards to their band that is. Elton fucking John is still releasing new albums, does that make him current and not nostalgia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: Metallica had to replace Cliff Burton who died tragically in 1986. By 1988 they had a brand spanking new album out. Metallica had to further replace Jason Newsted in 2001. That has nothing to do with present Metallica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, AlexC said: I knew it was a matter of time before some fuck hit me with the classic "a fan doesn't have to worship everything the band does" shit. I'm not doing that at all. It however is true! The way you, GN'R or Axl fans, operate is completely weird. You pounce on any errant musician who offers even a smidgen of criticism upon the subject of Guns. You have to offer your opinion on why this artist ''sucks'' etc etc. It is weird. My favourite artist is Neil Young for instance yet I can reel off a number of albums of his that I consider bona fide turds by that artist; no skin off my nose; everyone has a bad day at the office? Does it make me less a fan? No. Why can you not accept that this is an incredibly flawed band? 2 minutes ago, AlexC said: Elton fucking John is still releasing new albums, does that make him current and not nostalgia? It certainly makes him far more current than Axl/Guns. Elton's hardcore fans - even if they're now reduced to a narrow clique - have a product of new material which they can buy from a store if they so desire. That is a disc of circa twelve songs which did not exist beforehand. Remember that feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: It however is true! The way you, GN'R or Axl fans, operate is completely weird. You pounce on any errant musician who offers even a smidgen of criticism upon the subject of Guns. You have to offer your opinion on why this artist ''sucks'' etc etc. It is weird. My favourite artist is Neil Young for instance yet I can reel off a number of albums of his that I consider bona fide turds by that artist; no skin off my nose; everyone has a bad day at the office? Does it make me less a fan? No. Why can you not accept that this is an incredibly flawed band? It certainly makes him far more current than Axl/Guns. Elton's hardcore fans - even if they're now reduced to a narrow clique - have a product of new material which they can buy from a store if they so desire. That is a disc of circa twelve songs which did not exist beforehand. Remember that feeling? Jesus Christ. So just because I criticise Kirk for this particular comment and point out the irony of Metallica's current state compared to GN'R's I therefore blindly defend everything they do?! NO FUCKING WAY! It's just this one particular subject that I'm talking about how in the holy name of FUCK have you arrived at the conclusion to generalise me with a fictional cluster of delusional cunts? FUCK YOU! And everyone that looks like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just now, AlexC said: Jesus Christ. So just because I criticise Kirk for this particular comment and point out the irony of Metallica's current state compared to GN'R's I therefore blindly defend everything they do?! NO FUCKING WAY! It's just this one particular subject that I'm talking about how in the holy name of FUCK have you arrived at the conclusion to generalise me with a fictional cluster of delusional cunts? FUCK YOU! And everyone that looks like you. Well, you certainly like your expletives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Well, you certainly like your expletives. I do, when I'm triggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 minute ago, AlexC said: I do, when I'm triggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexC Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Dude, you used the word "smidgen" just crawl into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicDwolfwood Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: You are just using bias to sustain your arguments. Firstly, most of the great acts have released outtakes records, Who Odds and Sods, Zeppelin Coda, Dylan Basement Tapes, etc. - not to mention larger archival projects such as The Beatles Anthology. Outtakes records are actually very 'fan friendly' interesting releases (some of my favourite albums are outtakes albums!). Secondly, statements like ''atrocious songs...horrible songs'' are absolute subjectivity and can be dismissed with all of the haste they deserve. But they are about to release an album in a week or so, and are already playing three songs from it! Wait until November 18th and they're already 2:1 on Axl. Further, releases commencing 2008, original material in bold, Metallica Death Magnetic (album) Sept 2008 "Remember Tomorrow", Maiden Heaven: A Tribute to Iron Maiden 2008 Orgullo, Pasión, y Gloria: Tres Noches en la Ciudad de México (live film/album) November 2009 Français Pour une Nuit (live film) Nov 2009 "You Really Got Me" (collaboration with Ray Davies) See My Friends 2010 The Big Four: Live from Sofia, Bulgaria (Live film with Slayer, Megadeth and Anthrax) Nov 2010 Six Feet Down Under (live E.P.) Sept 2010 Six Feet Down Under Part II (Live E.P.) Nov 2010 Live at Grimey's (live E.P.) Nov 2010 Lulu (album with Lou Reed) Nov 2011 Beyond Magnetic (outtakes E.P.) Dec 2011 "When a Blind Man Cries", Re-Machined: A Tribute To Deep Purple's Machine Head 2013 Quebec Magnetic (live film) Dec 2012 Through the Never (film/live album) Sept 2013 "Ronnie Rising Medley", Ronnie James Dio - This is Your Life (tribute album) 2014. ''Lords of Summer'' (single) March 2014. Hardwired... to Self-Destruct (album) Nov 2016 Guns N' Roses Chinese Democracy (album) Nov 2008 Appetite for Democracy 3D (live film) July 2014 Who has the happier fanbase (subjectivity aside)? Fair enough. Im not a fan of outtake albums. I get why they're done, but Its never been for me, I have found lots of those extras to be boring. I like Live extras, but studio throwaways arent for me. If its something that you enjoy, then continue to do so. I realize and am fully aware of the projects Metallica have released. I have listened or watched almost all of those projects. I enjoyed half of them at best. I realize others may have liked more, and Ive got no problem with it. Im entitled to what I enjoy, just as much as the next person. Im still sticking to what I said though, Metallica is as much a Nostalgia act as GNR is. They have just been smart in knowing their fans like live stuff, so they have made it available(if only GNR did this too right?..lol) , while Guns hasnt put out CD in 08(after Metallica put out DM) and the DVD. LULU was an atrocious project. the Beyond Magnetic Ep was funny to me because some of those songs were better than what ended up on DM in the first place. Just because they have released a bunch of stuff, doesnt change that they make their living from live shows consisting of 90% old material. obviously with a new album release coming, they are going to add those songs to the set list and at some point I would imagine that they will play most if not all of those new songs live, just like they did with DM. As for you question, that answer is simple. GNR fanbase is the most frustrated fanbase around. I know this very clearly. Ive lurked this board for years before I joined. I remember what it was like pre CD, and what it like during the endless tour cycle phase that followed. Im not saying what im saying about Metallica to make myself feel better about GNR. Im very aware of how infuriatingly bad things have been ran with this bad since I became a fan over a decade ago. If my Opinion makes what I say full of bias or subjectivity like you said, then fine..lol Edited November 13, 2016 by NicDwolfwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 hours ago, EvanG said: Completely right about that... but so was Axl, and so was Slash, and so was even Duff. It's silly to argue about who was more important to the creative side of GnR, Slash or Izzy. It's also silly to diminish the importance of either of them to Guns. 8 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: Bollocks. Huh? Axl has talked about it, we have leaks from that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 3 hours ago, EvanG said: What is your definition of a nostalgia album? When a band makes the same kind of same music they made at the beginning of their career? I guess so. Rick Rubin specializes in this kind of think like it's 1987. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I like DM. But don't act like you're some trailblazers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 hours ago, Oldest Goat said: I thought a few people have said that Down By The Ocean is this? It is very likely it is. No, Down By The Ocean is still unreleased. Axl owns it, It's not Box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rovim said: Huh? Axl has talked about it, we have leaks from that time. Axl missed his deadline. Axl never delivered an album which was ''rejected'' by the label. This is absolute bollocks. The whole sorry saga is on Chinese Whispers. Further, this stuff about a 'Beaven record'' is absolute garbage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 3 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: If progressiveness is merely imitating the then current - and quite dreadful - musical milieu, in this instance 1990s rock (e.g. NIN and Korn), then I believe I do not like progressiveness. I was under the, clearly mistaken impression, that progressiveness was about creating new things! So nostalgic that their fanbase can go to the shops on November 18th and buy a new album of brand spanking new tracks, meanwhile, where are Guns fans? Visa on the same exact setlist played every single night, based upon a discography as small as a bee's penis. You cannot go into a store in one week's time and buy a new GN'R album. Metallica fan's have that pleasure, in regards to their band that is. I see progressive as pushing the envelope a little. Zeppelin pushed it a little. GNR aren't an experimental band really. But CD is different enough, it's not a remake of AFD. CD is a little outside the box so not a nostalgia album. Chi dem, Shackler's, Better are successful re-imaginations of GNR. Where as St Anger not so much. Releasing records doesn't mean you aren't a nostalgia band. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just now, DieselDaisy said: Axl missed his deadline. Axl never delivered an album which was ''rejected'' by the label. This is absolute bollocks. The whole sorry saga is on Chinese Whispers. Further, this stuff about a 'Beaven record'' is absolute garbage. So you're basically saying that Axl lied in that interview about delivering an album to the label that they have rejected. (multiple times!) He said the label kept telling him it could be improved. We have the 1999 versions of Catcher, There Was A Time, I.R.S. Axl had This I Love years before that. Classic Rock magazine got a chance to listen to some of the tunes in 1999: Atlas Shrugged, Catcher, and others. Brian May said there were 2 albums worth of material in 1999 with vocals. So you're basically talking out of your ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Rovim said: So you're basically saying that Axl lied in that interview about delivering an album to the label that they have rejected. (multiple times!) He said the label kept telling him it could be improved. We have the 1999 versions of Catcher, There Was A Time, I.R.S. Axl had This I Love years before that. Classic Rock magazine got a chance to listen to some of the tunes in 1999: Atlas Shrugged, Catcher, and others. Brian May said there were 2 albums worth of material in 1999 with vocals. So you're basically talking out of your ass. "The label paid Mr. Rose $1 million to press on with the album, with the unusual promise of another $1 million if he delivered "Chinese Democracy" by March 1 of the following year." (New York Times, 03/06/05) The album was not finished by March 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: "The label paid Mr. Rose $1 million to press on with the album, with the unusual promise of another $1 million if he delivered "Chinese Democracy" by March 1 of the following year." (New York Times, 03/06/05) The album was not finished by March 1st The album was never finished until it was released. Axl said he still changed around things until the very last moment in 2008. But the fact is that Axl had many songs at that point, some of which Classic Rock magazine have heard, some we have heard, and Brian May said he heard 2 albums with vocals at that point. The new york times snippet doesn't mean Axl didn't deliver them an album in 1999. It wasn't mixed, but this is what he wanted to release and the label were like nah, you can do better. Edited November 13, 2016 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 It's not just Axl that said it was rejected. Zutaut said it. Tommy said it. Jimmy Iovine thought the sound was too raw. It was only 99 so there was no rush. Jimmy suggested RTB to re-record. When it was re-recorded Ezrin is quoted as saying it wasn't ready to mix. The rec comp sided with him. This was a set back. It took from 2001-2004 working with Costanzo again re-recording. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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