Dazey Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said: I just killed my facebook account cause I couldn't take all the elitist retards (mainly on the left) who kept using the newsfeed as a soapbox to act like they knew what they were talking about and that their opinion on Trump was of authority. Weird. I'd just stop reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Graeme Posted January 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Whiskey Rose said: But see, this is exactly what I was saying...out of all those people on the right, the left don't think any of them care about the environment? They don't think any of them have gay friends and family members that they want to see have equal freedoms to live their life? They don't think any of them would be kind to refugees that show up in their town? They don't think they have sent money and clothes and supplies to those who have suffered from disasters and persecution? They don't think they teach their children manners, respect for others, and how to be productive, giving people? Because they do and have. Yet they are still considered deserving of contempt from the left because a top priority for them right now is to earn a decent living. All I see right now in newspapers and social media, is a spew of hate and bile against others, and it's coming from the left, the supposed empathetic and inclusionary side. I don't understand how this is okay. It makes my stomach ache. Whether it was a bad decision or not to vote Trump in remains to be seen..but I don't think anyone should attack others and call them racist or homophobe just because their view or understanding of something differs from one's own. And that is exactly what is happening. Empathy and respect for others opinions and views needs to come from all sides. Even if you think they are wrong. But of course this is just my opinion. If one cared about reducing the myriad impacts of climate change, how could one countenance voting for a candidate who refuses to acknowledge it is a problem? If you have gay friends and family members that you want to see have equal freedom to live their life, how could you countenance voting for a candidate who has stated his intention to strip them of their currently existing right to get married? (To say nothing of his Vice President). It's the political equivalent being on an iceberg that's breaking up and one guy's going about pushing people off, saying "Sorry guys, you know how it is, if you all stay there'll be no room for me... gotta look out for number one." Your argument seems to be, "Why can't you empathise with his sense of self-preservation? maybe he feels bad about it as he's pushing them off...". He's still pushing them off. I haven't seen a single argument for a right-wing way of creating a caring and compassionate society since this discussion began. The sum total of that argument seems to be "Why can't you just accept it's an ugly dog-eat-dog world and let us get on with it?". Instead, there's been scorn thrown at the left for having the audacity to be critical, but if you're a proponent of what you perceive to be social justice then it makes sense to criticise those who deliberately make decisions that perpetuate social injustice for the sake of their own benefit. I don't think I'm being cruel or unreasonable here. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 46 minutes ago, Graeme said: If one cared about reducing the myriad impacts of climate change, how could one countenance voting for a candidate who refuses to acknowledge it is a problem? If you have gay friends and family members that you want to see have equal freedom to live their life, how could you countenance voting for a candidate who has stated his intention to strip them of their currently existing right to get married? (To say nothing of his Vice President). It's the political equivalent being on an iceberg that's breaking up and one guy's going about pushing people off, saying "Sorry guys, you know how it is, if you all stay there'll be no room for me... gotta look out for number one." Your argument seems to be, "Why can't you empathise with his sense of self-preservation? maybe he feels bad about it as he's pushing them off...". He's still pushing them off. I haven't seen a single argument for a right-wing way of creating a caring and compassionate society since this discussion began. The sum total of that argument seems to be "Why can't you just accept it's an ugly dog-eat-dog world and let us get on with it?". Instead, there's been scorn thrown at the left for having the audacity to be critical, but if you're a proponent of what you perceive to be social justice then it makes sense to criticise those who deliberately make decisions that perpetuate social injustice for the sake of their own benefit. I don't think I'm being cruel or unreasonable here. Climate change and gay marriage may be important to you but for most they're actually far left-wing, fringe issues that have no bearing on who one will cast a vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dazey Posted January 22, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, SteveAJones said: Climate change and gay marriage may be important to you but for most they're actually far left-wing, fringe issues that have no bearing on who one will cast a vote for. Climate change is an issue for everybody but it's a science thing. I wouldn't expect you to understand. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Dazey said: Weird. I'd just stop reading it. Logging on was kinda becoming an addiction for me for some inexplicable reason. I had always wanted to be on cause it was my way of trying to keep up with "what's going on," but when literally every post becomes obnoxiously political, even from pages you like (GN'R), having an account just starts to feel ultimately pointless. Hence why I killed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 hours ago, rocknroll41 said: I just killed my facebook account cause I couldn't take all the elitist retards (mainly on the left) who kept using the newsfeed as a soapbox to act like they knew what they were talking about and that their opinion on Trump was of authority. So I guess that makes this forum my only source of social media now! Just stay away from the politics thread as there are plenty of lefty soapboxers in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Mygnr is more to the left than Stalin's left bollock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknroll41 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 3 hours ago, PappyTron said: Just stay away from the politics thread as there are plenty of lefty soapboxers in there. Thanks for the heads up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 23 hours ago, SteveAJones said: Climate change and gay marriage may be important to you but for most they're actually far left-wing, fringe issues that have no bearing on who one will cast a vote for. Well gay marriage shouldn't be on anyone's mind, because in Trump's own words, "The matter is settled, the Supreme Court already ruled on it." No one really focuses on that, just the alleged gay death squads. Climate change is absolutely not a fringe issue, the only thing hurting it, like most issues, is that the loudest people about it are assholes. Sound familiar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I'm all for energy efficiency. It's just good practice. If people use climate change as an excuse for us to start using cleaner and renewable energy, so be it. Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't clean up out act a bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, AxlisOld said: I'm all for energy efficiency. It's just good practice. If people use climate change as an excuse for us to start using cleaner and renewable energy, so be it. Fossil fuels aren't going anywhere, but that doesn't mean we can't clean up out act a bit. Aye they are... the atmosphere . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, Graeme said: Aye they are... the atmosphere . How many times have you flown around the world in the last few years, Graeme? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 How much methane does the Scottish diet pump into the atmosphere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 29 minutes ago, PappyTron said: How many times have you flown around the world in the last few years, Graeme? Two return trips to Mexico (well, one is forthcoming) and one to Chile. I have also been known to inhabit buildings that use electric lighting and central heating, consume produce from beef and dairy farms, use land-based fossil fuel powered transport, purchase goods made of and packaged in plastic, own a mobile phone, be in the employ of large multinational corporations, breathe out too... I reckon most everyone who'd like to see more done at the institutional level to combat climate change is similarly hypocritical. It doesn't mean they don't have a point, and it's better to be aware and to try to change your behaviour than to do nothing and dismiss the evidence presented by the largest global collaborative scientific enquiry ever conducted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Graeme said: Aye they are... the atmosphere . Their use isn't. Better? Pedantic bastard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 17 minutes ago, AxlisOld said: Their use isn't. Better? Pedantic bastard. Love ya really. Although I do hope that we manage to significantly reduce our fossil fuel consumption as a species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Graeme said: Two return trips to Mexico (well, one is forthcoming) and one to Chile. I have also been known to inhabit buildings that use electric lighting and central heating, consume produce from beef and dairy farms, use land-based fossil fuel powered transport, purchase goods made of and packaged in plastic, own a mobile phone, be in the employ of large multinational corporations, breathe out too... I reckon most everyone who'd like to see more done at the institutional level to combat climate change is similarly hypocritical. It doesn't mean they don't have a point, and it's better to be aware and to try to change your behaviour than to do nothing and dismiss the evidence presented by the largest global collaborative scientific enquiry ever conducted. Well, I don't think that anyone who denies climate is taken seriously, or at least they shouldn't be, but the fact remains that we can all do more, and many of those who spend a lot of time telling others that they need to be more concerned with the environment are hardly paragons of virtue themselves. You say that we should be aware of the effects that we each have on the environment, and I agree, but what have you done to combat the effects that you place on this planet? Surely flying around the world in huge pollutants such as planes is not the most efficacious way of minimising your personal impact on the environment? I only ask because you are always to be found, telling people that you are worried about people in Mexico, people in Syria, the environment, fossil fuels, the homeless, the rich not paying enough taxes etc, but I wonder what you do, on a day to day basis, to help the world yourself. Edited January 23, 2017 by PappyTron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlisOld Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Nuclear modernization would sure be a start. And if non proliferation agreements didn't prevent the use of breeder reactors we wouldn't have that pesky "waste" issue to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 We could deep fry the nuclear waste and the Scots would eat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontdamnmeuyi2015 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Okay today at 12:45 Trump's press secretary interrupted Days of our lives to tell America and maybe the world who the hell knows, what Trump has done over the weekend. I was like there are tons of news channels on cable, why do they have to mess up daytime tv for this shit. Is he going to tell us every day what Trump's doing? Unless my taxes are being reduced or he is doing a better health care for all people, I don't care right now. also at 1:00 my time to watched General Hospital, only abc had this guy still taking questions from the press and then other news people telling you again what he just said. No other channel carried it beyond 1:00.\ I am interested in what's going on I really am, but unless it can' t wait until 4 for the news report I don't want to have my shows messed with. Sick of these people already and we will have 4 more years of this? also leave Trumps ten year old boy alone. He's young and remember when you were ten? Get over what his people are wearing. Get to the problems facing America and the world. People who tweet every damn day have no damn life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Is this Graeme admitting he has had to compromise his lefty beliefs to live his life (travel etc)? It is a slippery slope. Next we will see Graeme develop Thatcherite tendencies, wearing pin-stripped suits and being rogered by rent boys on clapham common. Edited January 23, 2017 by DieselDaisy typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 2 hours ago, PappyTron said: Well, I don't think that anyone who denies climate is taken seriously, or at least they shouldn't be, but the fact remains that we can all do more, and many of those who spend a lot of time telling others that they need to be more concerned with the environment are hardly paragons of virtue themselves. You say that we should be aware of the effects that we each have on the environment, and I agree, but what have you done to combat the effects that you place on this planet? Surely flying around the world in huge pollutants such as planes is not the most efficacious way of minimising your personal impact on the environment? I only ask because you are always to be found, telling people that you are worried about people in Mexico, people in Syria, the environment, fossil fuels, the homeless, the rich not paying enough taxes etc, but I wonder what you do, on a day to day basis, to help the world yourself. Do you mean stuff like turning off the lights when I leave a room; turning off appliances when I'm not using them; not leaving things on standby; not owning a car and instead getting around on public transport; not buying train tickets with my card because they print out an extra billet for the receipt; saving paper wherever possible; recycling, organic food waste, metal, paper/cardboard and plastic; making sure to eat everything I make or order; taking my own bags to the shops; not dropping litter; putting on more layers in the house rather than turning the heating up? I try my best to do stuff like this as much as possible... Could I do more? Absolutely, but I do make an effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PappyTron Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Graeme said: Do you mean stuff like turning off the lights when I leave a room; turning off appliances when I'm not using them; not leaving things on standby; not owning a car and instead getting around on public transport; not buying train tickets with my card because they print out an extra billet for the receipt; saving paper wherever possible; recycling, organic food waste, metal, paper/cardboard and plastic; making sure to eat everything I make or order; taking my own bags to the shops; not dropping litter; putting on more layers in the house rather than turning the heating up? I try my best to do stuff like this as much as possible... Could I do more? Absolutely, but I do make an effort. If we could "all do more" then why don't you? I mean, I don't expect you to wander around in nothing but a hair shirt, but you're aware that you could do more, so I find it interesting why you don't go to additional length, especially considering that nothing that you listed is particularly onerous on you. Edited January 24, 2017 by PappyTron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, PappyTron said: If we could "all do more" then why don't you? I mean, I don't expect you to wander around in nothing but a hair shirt, but you're aware that you could do more, so I find it interesting why you don't go to additional length, especially considering that nothing that you listed is particularly onerous on you. They might not be particularly onerous overall, but I pretty much conform to the list of lifestyle choices recommended for reducing one's carbon footprint by the NGO COTAP (Carbon Offsets to Alleviate Poverty). I guess I don't really have the facilities to take bold steps like growing my own food or generating my own electricity. I don't have the land for food production, I currently live in a household of 4, so I have to share with other people, I generally eat what gets cooked for everyone and I'm not sure that insisting on eating separately would actually reduce the amount of energy consumed overall, I don't have the option to buy solar panels or a wind turbine for the house. I try to keep up to date with climate change research and to contribute to a culture of awareness and positive collective action (by arguing with people on the internet mostly). However it's difficult to escape the feeling that action at the individual level is a bit futile when you have people with a similar mentality to our Steve now governing the biggest per capita carbon-emitting economy on Earth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, PappyTron said: Well, I don't think that anyone who denies climate is taken seriously But they do get appointed to head the EPA it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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