BorderlineCrazy Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Those comments against @downzy and @maynard on the House of Blues video are so bizarre. What's that about? Who uploaded that video? Anyway, those early CD encarnations were so much better than the 2006/14 ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlsFavoriteRose Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, J Dog said: I would love to hear the final album from that time, agree with all of that. And yeah, Maddy was better back then, again, just that little bit of different feel made a huge difference. i want one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Drive Lonelinessl Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 21 hours ago, wasted said: Kind of, sort of and not really. Axl made the Better video himself? The label didn't fund a video or promotion, it was handed off to Best Buy. The label told them not to bother making a video. The promotion was Shackler's on Rock Band (supposedly the band wanted this as the single) and If the World on Body of Lies. Maybe the Better video was meant for release. Axl said there were video ideas for Shackler's involving Mickey Rourke but there was no funding. The label pulled the plug in 2004. Anything past that in terms of promotion is probably dreaming. axl made better video. who else? the fact axl has yet to release better video shows the FAILURE Guns N' Roses has been for a very long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 44 minutes ago, Night Drive Lonelinessl said: axl made better video. who else? the fact axl has yet to release better video shows the FAILURE Guns N' Roses has been for a very long time Doesn't prove anything. That music video sucked shit and it's possible Axl changed his mind and saw no benefit in releasing that turd. It's shit. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Drive Lonelinessl Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 i thought it was a great live performance music video. which could've had big play on vimeo, youtube, and other popular internet sites. which includes the music video TV markets. but axl didn't pull the trigger. what did axl do? axl went on another tour. that's what axl does. tour and tour. axl doesn't release music vids. axl tours. that proves everything on how Guns has been a failure for a long time. to be honest i don't see slash and duff filming a live guns video like better was made. slash and duff do nothing. except tour. like axl. they're getting paid millions. like axl. how many guns fans are millionaires like slash, duff, and axl? it's a disgrace. it's failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xBrownstonex Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 What the hell is wrong with you, dude? Your posts are a pain to read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, BorderlineCrazy said: Those comments against @downzy and @maynard on the House of Blues video are so bizarre. What's that about? Who uploaded that video? Anyway, those early CD encarnations were so much better than the 2006/14 ones. I don't know. But I'm guessing warchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Wagszilla said: More commercial success, a functional band, more of the 97-99 vault material, better drumming, and 70% of the same album. Also, Buckethead joined in 1999, Beavan left in 2000. It's possible and I'd argue likely he recorded his solos around the same time. If Axl released Chinese in 1999, with Robin still in the band, then Bucket wouldn't have joined at all (in 2000) cause Axl would have never had any reason to replace Robin. I couldn't ask for better drumming than Brain and Frank on Chinese. (that little fill Frank does in the end of I.R.S during Bucket's solo for example, his drumming on Chinese Democracy the song) Better is one of the strongest tracks on the album. If The World is not a popular tune but I love it (and Bucket's solo in it) The album would have been very different. I.R.S sounds shitty and poor without Bucket's solo. The album benefited greatly from a long gestation period, it wasn't all bad. Edited January 22, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Wagszilla said: Axl wanted the record released in 2000 after Buckethead had already joined. I do agree that he improved it a lot. This is all irrelevant anyway because we're talking about the flavor of the 2001-2002 band. The material was perfectly done and Bucket-ized by 2002 anyway. It's relevant since the 2002 version of the album probably sounded different without Frank and Bumble and it's possible some tunes weren't even ready by then. Do you understand? major changes that made it to the album. And not just additions by Bumble and Frank. Axl took away stupid shit like the useless word play in Better's chorus (now I know you know I know Better) He added some lyrics to Street Of Dreams and removed some of Pitman's synths on it. He made a lot of changes like changing the bpm on Better, making it slightly slower which I think improved it, etc. Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. A very different album. Edited January 22, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Drive Lonelinessl Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) what's wrong with me is people put slash and duff on a pedestal and they have no new gnr music to offer fans. what they offer fans is what axl offers fans and that's a great movie called the never ending story i mean a sad story called the never ending tour. at least the better video is made. ready to go. cd2 is made. ready to go. chinese remix cd made too. ready to go. lots made and ready to go. what happens? does axl surprise the world and release all? NO. axl goes on the never ending tour over and over and over again. Edited January 22, 2017 by Night Drive Lonelinessl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Wagszilla said: Name one point as evidence that I "don't know what I'm talking about". It's all there in my previous post, but whatever: you say the material was "perfectly done" in 2002. How do you know it was perfectly done? going by live versions, we have the stupid Pitman synts on Street Of Dreams, we have Chinese Democracy with only Robin's solo, Bucket's solo is missing and definitely doesn't sound like the studio version, Riad with that shitty Bucket solo, and we have no idea what the status of more than half of the tunes on Chinese was! did they finish tunes like Better for example? after some of it leaked, I.R.S was still missing some shit, Better's tempo was too fast. You just don't see the advantages of Chinese releasing after Axl had more time to make some changes. We fuckin' dodged a bullet with Better and the stupid lyrics it had in the chorus for example. Cringe worthy word play. You have no way of knowing it was perfectly done in 2002 cause we never got to hear that version of the album. Edited January 22, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Wagszilla said: Fuck all the way off Rovim, I don't have time for your shit. Plus: Axl said in the 2002 VMA's interview they needed to do more recordings. He is the artist, he thought it wasn't finished, soon wasn't the word. It wasn't "perfectly done". Edited January 23, 2017 by Rovim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Rovim said: Plus: Axl said in the 2002 VMA's interview they needed to do more recordings. He is the artist, he thought it wasn't finished, soon wasn't the word. It wasn't "perfectly done". It never would have been perfectly done for Axl and if he had not been more or less forced to let it go may never had seen the light of day IMHO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, classicrawker said: It never would have been perfectly done for Axl and if he had not been more or less forced to let it go may never had seen the light of day IMHO.... But we were specifically discussing 2002. He straight up said they were going to go back and do more recordings and they did, and the album was completed and released. These are the facts. Surely if the artist that is responsible for the work doesn't think it's perfectly done, than it isn't? it was done and it got released, but it wasn't in 2002. We know that's a fact cause even the 2006 leaks sounded different compared to the official version of Chinese. Edited January 23, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueJean Baby Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rovim said: Plus: Axl said in the 2002 VMA's interview they needed to do more recordings. He is the artist, he thought it wasn't finished, soon wasn't the word. It wasn't "perfectly done". Out of likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Rovim said: But we were specifically discussing 2002. He straight up said they were going to go back and do more recordings and they did, and the album was completed and released. These are the facts. Surely if the artist that is responsible for the work doesn't think it's perfectly done, than it isn't? it was done and it got released, but it wasn't in 2002. We know that's a fact cause even the 2006 leaks sounded different compared to the official version of Chinese. Come on mate he dicked around with that album for what 10 years and it cost the label $14 million and it was not ready? let's face it Axl was never going to be happy as evidenced by the fact the he has never been a ChiDem II.....IMHO...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, classicrawker said: Come on mate he dicked around with that album for what 10 years and it cost the label $14 million and it was not ready? let's face it Axl was never going to be happy as evidenced by the fact the he has never been a ChiDem II.....IMHO...... Look bro... I'm not saying he doesn't have a tinkering problem. He needs to go to meetings. But it got released. And he said it wasn't close to a release in 2002. Honestly, it's not that Axl never releases Gn'R albums or incapable of doing so. It's just that he takes a lot of time to come up with something he considers to be good enough and only then will he release it. Big difference. I truly believe that's the case with Axl as a musician. Just won't release disposable shit that doesn't reflect where he is as an artist as a Gn'R album, and his process is slow. Edited January 23, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicrawker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Rovim said: Look bro... I'm not saying he doesn't have a tinkering problem. He needs to go to meeting or something. But it got released. And he said it wasn't close to a release in 2002. Honestly, it's not that Axl never releases Gn'R albums or incapable of doing so. It's just that he takes a lot of time to come up with something he considers to be good enough and only then will he release it. Big difference. I truly believe that's the case with Axl as a musician. Just won't release disposable shit as a Gn'R album, and his process is slow. It got released over his objection after 10 years and he supposedly had to other albums in the can which have never sen the light of day. do you really think more time would have made that mediocre production mess album that much better? really?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, classicrawker said: It got released over his objection after 10 years and he supposedly had to other albums in the can which have never sen the light of day. do you really think more time would have made that mediocre production mess album that much better? really?..... More time improved it, I gave examples. To my ears the final product is better and I'm not just saying. Production is not mediocre for me, but I know it's not a popular opinion. I think it sounds great to be honest with you. It got released, and I still listen to it. That's all I know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlRoseCDII Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rovim said: Look bro... I'm not saying he doesn't have a tinkering problem. He needs to go to meetings. But it got released. And he said it wasn't close to a release in 2002. Honestly, it's not that Axl never releases Gn'R albums or incapable of doing so. It's just that he takes a lot of time to come up with something he considers to be good enough and only then will he release it. Big difference. I truly believe that's the case with Axl as a musician. Just won't release disposable shit that doesn't reflect where he is as an artist as a Gn'R album, and his process is slow. Really, do you honestly think every day from 2003-2005 he sat down and worked on Chinese? New music has never been a priority for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSSY78 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rovim said: Look bro... I'm not saying he doesn't have a tinkering problem. He needs to go to meeting or something. But it got released. And he said it wasn't close to a release in 2002. Honestly, it's not that Axl never releases Gn'R albums or incapable of doing so. It's just that he takes a lot of time to come up with something he considers to be good enough and only then will he release it. Big difference. I truly believe that's the case with Axl as a musician. Just won't release disposable shit as a Gn'R album, and his process is slow. I agree. And of memory serves me Axl talked a bit about it on the boards. One thing we know is Axl likes to find interesting artwork for the albums and I believe he said it was released with a different one. I think Tommy is likely right that to Azl he wanted to tinker with it more. And sure why people act like prior to this things always went faster but I'll point them to November Rain. Though many many not agree it is a masterpiece musically and vocally. There's also many people who enjoy songs off CD. And while the subject is being discussed if I'm going to compare songs Izzy has released vs Axl I lean more towards Axls writing here. Perhaps Axl sometimes takes what many consider yo be too long at times I imagine it has to do with being critical on himself as well. People also forget that after the brekup there was the added pressure likely of proving people wrong and or showing that you will be just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AxlRoseCDII said: Really, do you honestly think every day from 2003-2005 he sat down and worked on Chinese? New music has never been a priority for the guy. But changes were made. It's not important that he didn't spend all of his time working on it. The final product is what matters. Recorded music in Gn'R is priority 1 for Axl, always has been, he even said that in an interview. (except money of course) Edited January 23, 2017 by Rovim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxlRoseCDII Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Just now, Rovim said: But changes were made. It's not important that he didn't spend all of his time working on it. The final product is what matters. Recorded music in Gn'R is priority 1 for Axl, always have been, he even said that in an interview. (except money of course) It is important that he didn't spend all his time working on it, because the thing took 11 damn years to come out. New music is not a priority for him. Maybe in 2001 he planned a trilogy but that's dead now. I understand wanting to take time on work, but there's a difference between spending 4-5 years and 11 (hell if you argue he worked on it since 93, than 15) And now it's what? 9 years since CD and we don't even know the name of this hypothetical new album? Give me a break... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovim Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) On 23.1.2017 at 2:44 AM, BOSSY78 said: I agree. And of memory serves me Axl talked a bit about it on the boards. One thing we know is Axl likes to find interesting artwork for the albums and I believe he said it was released with a different one. I think Tommy is likely right that to Azl he wanted to tinker with it more. And sure why people act like prior to this things always went faster but I'll point them to November Rain. Though many many not agree it is a masterpiece musically and vocally. There's also many people who enjoy songs off CD. And while the subject is being discussed if I'm going to compare songs Izzy has released vs Axl I lean more towards Axls writing here. Perhaps Axl sometimes takes what many consider yo be too long at times I imagine it has to do with being critical on himself as well. People also forget that after the brekup there was the added pressure likely of proving people wrong and or showing that you will be just fine Also Brian May said Axl is utterly meticulous, it fits with how long it took him to complete November Rain. I think he tinkers cause it's gotta be great for him. Like if he believes he could improve it, he'll try every approach he can think of. To be perfectly honest here, I think some tunes got tinkered with too much. I think Catcher lost some of it's magic but I love both versions. It's just that the demo one had something very special. The risk of tinkering with material for years is that sometimes you might lose sight of the original concept. But Axl was always like this. This is his artistic process. This is his way of getting there. A big part of Gn'R is the way Axl works in a studio. It's not just a flaw, it's also an advantage: a lot of UYI and what separate it from other Hard Rock albums is Axl making sure it's just right. And his attention to details. Slash said the UYI demos were better, but really... Pretty Tied Up and the perils of rock n' roll decadence, the piano ballads, Civil War intro... Just how perfect November Rain sounds like. It takes a lot of time to make that shit happen like that. And yeah... Chinese taking a long time wasn't just because Axl is a crazy tinkerer. It's lawsuits, it's the label rejecting versions of it, it's the big expectations and everyone just ready to pounce on a Slashless Gn'R album. It's a lot of things. I wouldn't want Axl to not give a fuck about the quality and meaning of a Guns album. At least it's important for him enough to make sure it's right. He has never released a shit Guns album so I think he knows what he's doing, even if it's slow as fuck. Slash doesn't care, Duff doesn't know how to do it, Izzy couldn't be fucked, and he can do a great solo album in no time. Axl is the one who pieces it all together. Edited January 30, 2017 by Rovim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-W.A.R- Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) Rovim needs to read "Chinese Whispers" which details the whole process to sum it up: there was a fuck ton of sitting around waiting for Axl to show Edited January 23, 2017 by -W.A.R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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