GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

- Transcript of the Detroit interview killuridols posted: http://www.a-4-d.com/t1678-2002-11-26-interview-with-axl

   Axl was asked if he was dating someone:

        Interviewer: Well it's great to talk to you Axl ... somebody here at the station wanted me to ask you if you were dating anyone, I dunno .. these girls here at the station, y'know..
        Axl: Ah, y'know, noone in particular... no .. no significant others yet...

I just listened to the audio interview @killuridols posted and there's an interesting part (from 2:15-5:15) that is omitted in the transcript above. Axl talks about where he had been all that time and about Slash and Jakk Wylde:

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Blackstar

[marlingrl03]

Just listened to that bit...."New performers"  "Players" 

Holy fuck, am I so ever grateful Slash and Duff are back!!!!! Classic lineup forever. 

[Blackstar]

41 minutes ago, PaperDoll said:

But given the misogyny of GnR, I don't think they'd agree. 

Duff and Izzy had cross-dressed in bands they had played. Axl's hard rock hero Bon Scott had dressed like a school girl, and of course Bowie, whom they all liked.

Regardless of some aspects of misogyny, I don't think they'd have a problem with Kurt Cobain's "statement".

Edited July 30, 2017 by Blackstar

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, thank you for sharing these.  I hadn't heard the Detroit one before.  Very interesting.  Guy asking the Qs was good for the most part but was I annoyed he cut Axl off right when he was offering details on Slash, Izzy, Duff etc which I really wanted to know...to ask him about partying, which I really didn't want to know.

Some other things that stood out:

 - That Izzy left because he couldn't deal with how big Guns had gotten and wanted to play to 2000 people all along.  This, I kinda of knew from other interviews, but there's a perception in the media and amongst some of the fans on here too, that Izzy got sick of Axl and his controlling ways and the showing up late, and that's why he left.  Which might well be the case.  But it's interesting hearing Axl's opinion on it.

 - That Duff and Slash had to be whacked out 'just to get on stage' because it was 'stressful' dealing with 'those crowds'.   Again, interesting to hear Axl's POV because Duff and Slash didn't really reinforce that opinion in their books; there were all sorts of reasons for the continued substance abuse, Axl's lateness being one of them, but never 'stress from big crowds'. 

 - That Slash wouldn't green light the 'kickass' songs because (in hindsight) he was holding them back for his own purposes i.e. starting his own band.  So this does tie in with what Axl said in a chat on this forum I think? where he claims Slash had a 'strategy and an agenda' ALL ALONG to break up Guns since he couldn't control it, and form his own band.  Yet in both Slash's and Duff's books, Slash  was having a hard time dealing with Axl being late/not showing up at the studio/not being able to work with various people Axl was trying to persuade him to work with in order to get music out.  Obviously, Slash was not going to admit to having an agenda.  Hmmm...that one is really interesting.  For the record, I tend to believe Alx on this one - but that's a whole other post.

 - The other super interesting thing was Axl admitting that the new players in 'the band' didn't know what Guns n Roses really meant, or what it really stood for, which is why it had taken so long for them to form any kind of musical bond.  Again, post for another time, but I've always thought Axl got it wrong there and that just really confirmed it for me.  He had completely the wrong idea of what Guns n Roses actually is or was.  

 

 

 

[killuridols]

May 26, 1991:

"But even if the Gunners are 'old school', they are also a rock n' roll juggernaut. They invest proven formulas with fresh passion and sensuality.

When Rose sways from the hips and rocks his shoulders, he embodies those emotions."

[Blackstar]

7 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Guy asking the Qs was good for the most part but was I annoyed he cut Axl off right when he was offering details on Slash, Izzy, Duff etc which I really wanted to know...to ask him about partying, which I really didn't want to know.

The guy did a show recently where he replayed the interview. Around 14:00 he says he was told (by Axl's "people" apparently) what he shouldn't ask, but eventually Axl brought up some of those subjects himself:

https://files.greatermedia.com/uploads/sites/24/2017/03/Samoa-Joe-and-vintage-Axl-Rose.mp3

[Asia]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

That Slash wouldn't green light the 'kickass' songs because (in hindsight) he was holding them back for his own purposes i.e. starting his own band.

Oh boy, Axl's obssession taking over here, that he developed after Slash left - that Slash wanted to leave, that he wanted to destroy Axl, that he had a plan from day one to use Axl and then left him with nothing, all kinds of shit like that that didn't make sense whatsoever but TB dutifully agreed making him believe in the reality he created for hmself for years. Thank you again Duff McKagen that you came finally and straightened it all out in his head.

 

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

For the record, I tend to believe Alx on this one - but that's a whole other post.

I absolutely don't believe Slash ever wanted to leave Guns. He said both in his book and in an interview for MTV back in the day (never found it afterwards) that he actually wanted to kill himself after it happened. Then he fell to total dephs of abuse for a very long time (just to quote him - John Lennon had his lost weekend, I had my lost year...). And that little video I posted recently about what this band means to him? He said it plainly - nothing else in his life comes even close. Still while on Snakepit tour he would say "I'm coming back to Guns after that cause this is my home". He was just as much dedicated to this band as Axl - to both of them it was their entire lives and it is even more amazing in this light that they let it slip away just like that for so many years for no real good reason, other then temporary ego trips and a bunch of misunderstandings. Honestly I think neither of them believed this would actually happen untill the last moment, that is until it happened.  Slash had developed some serious breakdown with the situation so he left. But I remember him talking not so much later that as usual with Guns one day things will settle down and he'll be back, he still believed he'll be back. But he didn't realize how far Axl would get in the mean time with his rage and fury and depression, how soon and how much obsessed he'll get with Slash. To Axl Slash's decision was final and there was no turning back. It was all just absolutely crazy turn of events with so much miscommunication, it's hard to believe.

[purplestargirl]

5 hours ago, Andy14 said:

I think Meegan just saved the day with her responses.

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Some other things that stood out:

 - That Izzy left because he couldn't deal with how big Guns had gotten and wanted to play to 2000 people all along.  This, I kinda of knew from other interviews, but there's a perception in the media and amongst some of the fans on here too, that Izzy got sick of Axl and his controlling ways and the showing up late, and that's why he left.  Which might well be the case.  But it's interesting hearing Axl's opinion on it.

 - That Duff and Slash had to be whacked out 'just to get on stage' because it was 'stressful' dealing with 'those crowds'.   Again, interesting to hear Axl's POV because Duff and Slash didn't really reinforce that opinion in their books; there were all sorts of reasons for the continued substance abuse, Axl's lateness being one of them, but never 'stress from big crowds'. 

 - That Slash wouldn't green light the 'kickass' songs because (in hindsight) he was holding them back for his own purposes i.e. starting his own band.  So this does tie in with what Axl said in a chat on this forum I think? where he claims Slash had a 'strategy and an agenda' ALL ALONG to break up Guns since he couldn't control it, and form his own band.  Yet in both Slash's and Duff's books, Slash  was having a hard time dealing with Axl being late/not showing up at the studio/not being able to work with various people Axl was trying to persuade him to work with in order to get music out.  Obviously, Slash was not going to admit to having an agenda.  Hmmm...that one is really interesting.  For the record, I tend to believe Alx on this one - but that's a whole other post.

 - The other super interesting thing was Axl admitting that the new players in 'the band' didn't know what Guns n Roses really meant, or what it really stood for, which is why it had taken so long for them to form any kind of musical bond.  Again, post for another time, but I've always thought Axl got it wrong there and that just really confirmed it for me.  He had completely the wrong idea of what Guns n Roses actually is or was.  

Lol i think you summed up there what would be the spine of a future Axl's book.

Well, that is if he still believe those things. Maybe he has changed his mind with the reunion. 

I lean more towards Izzy, Duff and Slash version because I sense more coherence in what they say than what Axl says (and has done after) but i am aware that we would never have an objective truth or version from any of the parts involved so.... this will be more like a matter of "faith".

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

15 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Lol i think you summed up there what would be the spine of a future Axl's book.

Well, that is if he still believe those things. Maybe he has changed his mind with the reunion. 

I lean more towards Izzy, Duff and Slash version because I sense more coherence in what they say than what Axl says (and has done after) but i am aware that we would never have an objective truth or version from any of the parts involved so.... this will be more like a matter of "faith".

That's a very good point about whether or not he - or any of them - still believe the things they put in their books (or said in interviews or on chat forums).  I've often wondered that.  We readily quote from their books etc, to back up our opinions, but how do we know they still feel the same way, or that what they said in their books was not a more palatable version of the truth, to make themselves appear in a better light?  Slash's book is now 9 years old and Duff's 6.  A lot has happened in that time, I imagine.  It's hard to say.  I'm not an Axl apologist by any means, I realise he has many flaws, but I also don't believe in the popular notion that Slash and Duff were innocent victims of Axl's tyranny.  Slash had an ego every bit as huge as Axl's - he was just better at hiding it and he never listened to anyone or any constructive criticism (he admits this lots of times). He too, would have been difficult to work with.  As to having an agenda, I do think he was capable of that - not perhaps to the extent that Axl suggested - but he's a really clever guy and was ambitious.  I don't thin it's out of the realm of possibility that he saw the ship sinking i.e. Guns breaking up, and thought of how he was going to survive that - better keep hold of the good songs for future reference.  I don't blame him.

49 minutes ago, Asia said:

Oh boy, Axl's obssession taking over here, that he developed after Slash left - that Slash wanted to leave, that he wanted to destroy Axl, that he had a plan from day one to use Axl and then left him with nothing, all kinds of shit like that that didn't make sense whatsoever but TB dutifully agreed making him believe in the reality he created for hmself for years. Thank you again Duff McKagen that you came finally and straightened it all out in his head.

 

I absolutely don't believe Slash ever wanted to leave Guns. He said both in his book and in an interview for MTV back in the day (never found it afterwards) that he actually wanted to kill himself after it happened. Then he fell to total dephs of abuse for a very long time (just to quote him - John Lennon had his lost weekend, I had my lost year...). And that little video I posted recently about what this band means to him? He said it plainly - nothing else in his life comes even close. Still while on Snakepit tour he would say "I'm coming back to Guns after that cause this is my home". He was just as much dedicated to this band as Axl - to both of them it was their entire lives and it is even more amazing in this light that they let it slip away just like that for so many years for no real good reason, other then temporary ego trips and a bunch of misunderstandings. Honestly I think neither of them believed this would actually happen untill the last moment, that is until it happened.  Slash had developed some serious breakdown with the situation so he left. But I remember him talking not so much later that as usual with Guns one day things will settle down and he'll be back, he still believed he'll be back. But he didn't realize how far Axl would get in the mean time with his rage and fury and depression, how soon and how much obsessed he'll get with Slash. To Axl Slash's decision was final and there was no turning back. It was all just absolutely crazy turn of events with so much miscommunication, it's hard to believe.

Yeah, I do believe Axl was deluded, esp after listening to him talk about nuGuns in the Detroit interview.  I don't mean he suffered from delusions as though it were an illness, I just think at this particular point in time, he was completely deluded about what Guns n Roses was and what could realistically be done.  I think he just didn't want to/couldn't bear to give it up.  I don't blame him for that either.  I found myself feeling a bit sad by the end of that interview.  Such a shame, such a waste of talent and minds and...friendships for so many years.  On the other hand, they've each experienced working with other musicians now, and in different environments/contexts, so maybe they've each grown and evolved as musicians.  This may be be one of the reasons that a reunion was finally made possible.  Maybe they appreciate what they had now more than ever.  Hopefully, it bodes well for new music.

[Ratam]

53 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

I think Meegan just saved the day with her responses.

Meegan help most what Beta  ?

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

Meegan help most what Beta  ?

Huh? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Sorry.

[Ratam]

Just now, purplestargirl said:

Huh? I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. Sorry.

I tying say what this information of Meegan is most work of  Beta  what Meegan  for ths pay very good  Beta and family, hope what is clear for you ☺

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, Ratam said:

I tying say what this information of Meegan is most work of  Beta  what Meegan  for ths pay very good  Beta and family, hope what is clear for you ☺

Ah, okay. I don't think Beta pays Meegan for anything, even denying or confirming information in relation to the band's last tour. She's a GNR spouse, that's all.

[janrichmond]

7 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

Ah, okay. I don't think Beta pays Meegan for anything, even denying or confirming information in relation to the band's last tour. She's a GNR spouse, that's all.

I think @Ratam is saying that Meegan is more helpful than Beta and her family and that Beta gets paid to help. I think.

[purplestargirl]

59 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I think @Ratam is saying that Meegan is more helpful than Beta and her family and that Beta gets paid to help. I think.

And there goes my brain for misunderstanding. Thanks, @janrichmond and my apologies to @Ratam.

[janrichmond]

Just now, purplestargirl said:

And there goes my brain for misunderstanding. Thanks, @janrichmond and my apologies to @Ratam.

Well i don't know if i'm right  but i approach @Ratam posts like a puzzle that i have to work out

[killuridols]

17 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

That's a very good point about whether or not he - or any of them - still believe the things they put in their books (or said in interviews or on chat forums).  I've often wondered that.  We readily quote from their books etc, to back up our opinions, but how do we know they still feel the same way, or that what they said in their books was not a more palatable version of the truth, to make themselves appear in a better light?  Slash's book is now 9 years old and Duff's 6.  A lot has happened in that time, I imagine.  It's hard to say.  I'm not an Axl apologist by any means, I realise he has many flaws, but I also don't believe in the popular notion that Slash and Duff were innocent victims of Axl's tyranny.  Slash had an ego every bit as huge as Axl's - he was just better at hiding it and he never listened to anyone or any constructive criticism (he admits this lots of times). He too, would have been difficult to work with.  As to having an agenda, I do think he was capable of that - not perhaps to the extent that Axl suggested - but he's a really clever guy and was ambitious.  I don't thin it's out of the realm of possibility that he saw the ship sinking i.e. Guns breaking up, and thought of how he was going to survive that - better keep hold of the good songs for future reference.  I don't blame him.

I have a hard time doubting the reasons why Izzy left, for example. The reasons given by Izzy himself, not Axl's version, because Izzy has been coherent with what he said for a long time..... (I think time is a very accurate test of principles, truths and values). Despite the fact that I may believe Axl when he says Izzy didn't want to become a huge band and deal with the business side of it or the massive concerts, in my opinion, Izzy did leave for the reasons he says he did.

I also believe Slash and Duff reasons because quitting the band for which they worked so hard to make it real, to record albums and to become what they became must not be that easy! I don't know you guys, but if any of you ever worked in a personal project for a long time and for X reason you have to quit it or shelve it or stop it, that's like.... a huge loss, a huge sense of "what was all this work for?" and I do believe that Axl drove them to a point of suffocation where they thought they were being treated like puppets, like disposable objects who had to be under the direction of someone who was acting like a dictator.

One can choose to believe them or not, but it is not always the word of one against the other. There are many other signs and symptoms and clues that, in my opinion, make their story more credible than Axl's.

For example: Izzy leaving in the early 90s. He mentions being demoted and disrespected as a co-writer. Five years or so later, Gilby gets sacked, Sorum gets sacked, Axl wants to bring other people like Zakk Wylde when he already has the best lead guitarist in the band  Then he brings that idiot Paul Tobias to keep rocking the boat, causing a lot of friction with Duff and Slash and keeps pulling the rope on their neck..... They become fed up and have to leave..... but hold on, maybe you still don't think they should be believed..... Let's make a parenthesis here and check out Axl's personal life a bit..... Years before he is dumped by two very important women in his life, Erin and Stephanie, what does that tell you?..... His family disappears.... Enters TB, you know how that story develops... Now, let's fast forward to Axl with a new band, the "nuGuns N' Roses"....... how long until those new guys who don't carry any grudges from the past, who are clean of drugs and professional musicians, who don't have any interest in the band other than just playing.... how long until those guys also get fed up of Axl's bullshit?

So there you go... Buckethead, Finck, Brain, Bumblefoot, Ashba...... Chinese Democracy 13 years in the making ...... And now he's back with the guys he said they had an agenda to bring Guns N' Roses down?

Again... one can choose who to believe or not to believe but there are things that are neutral, things that can prove other things in a natural way.... I think the truth eventually comes out, sooner or later, it is impossible to keep a lie going on for a lifetime. Maybe it takes a lot of time and people dying or getting old, but there comes that moment when things get clear and to me, Axl has been proven wrong in these 20 years or so.... in the general scheme of things, he was proven wrong because the audience and the fans never accepted his idea and vision that HE COULD BE GUNS N' ROSES by himself, no matter what.

Well, he was completely wrong about it and the proof is out there for everybody to see. Now, are Slash and Duff saints? No way, I'm sure they tried to put rocks in Axl's way so he had it very difficult to move on with his "I'm GNR" project. But I don't blame them because what would you do if you see the band you helped create and the music you helped create is now owned and being profited by this guy who considers himself a Messiah and goes around the world touring, having it easy because the name Guns N' Rose comes with a lot of benefits under its arm, while you as a musician have to start from scratch and build yourself a new name, a new band, make new music so that you can keep making your living within the profession you chose when you were young? Wouldn't you go trying to screw his business?? 

LOL I would!

My point being... the loneliness that has surrounded Axl ever since he decided to mess around with all of his relationships (both personal and professional) took a toll in his career and personal life. This is a fact.

And beyond the details of who was more evil or how bad they treated each other throughout these 20 years of battle, the truth is the lonely guy had to rethink all of this. Duff and Slash were called back to the band.  Axl owns the band. It wasn't the other way around. That says a lot.

 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by killuridols

[Ratam]

17 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I think @Ratam is saying that Meegan is more helpful than Beta and her family and that Beta gets paid to help. I think.

Spot on , you understand  this tortoise ninja,this is i said ??

[Ratam]

21 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

And there goes my brain for misunderstanding. Thanks, @janrichmond and my apologies to @Ratam.

Not, please,not apology, JANERICHMOND translated ok , thanks ☺

[Blackstar]

- I think there's truth to what Axl says about Izzy not wanting to be that big. Izzy himself has alluded to this, although not as a reason that stands by itself, but as the whole "craziness" that came with being big. Axl's behaviour and Slash's/Duff's excess had partly to do with that "craziness".

- Slash and Duff have talked about the stadium shows saying that they didn't like them much, at least not as something that they'd want to do all the time. They haven't linked the big shows themselves to their drug/alcohol abuse, but I can see how a tour of that magnitude could be a factor, even without Axl's lateness and his other issues. Slash or Duff or both have said how bored they were during the off days and that they were looking for something to do. Regardless of whether it had anything to do with Slash's and Duff's addictions, Axl's obsession with grandiosity and the "big show" had negative effect on the band. And it's one of the things I see as his flaws. Maybe it's due to some kind of fixation he has with the big bands of the 70s and what he had fantasized as a child (I think one of the reasons he looks so happy now is this, that he plays in front of such big crowds again). Another big mistake Axl made was that he put the business aspect of the band above the creative aspect; he wanted GnR, a young band, to be like The Rolling Stones in the 90s, a band that had more than 20 years career and had become a business by that point.

- I don't believe Slash had an agenda about the band the way Axl means it. I do think though that he came to a point, after the tour, where he wanted things to be done his way this time and not Axl's. There was a power game, and the main reason was that they both had their own issues to deal with. Slash wanted to put out an album quickly and tour, because if he didn't have something to keep him busy he would sink deeply on heroin. Axl had his personal and mental issues, the lawsuits... Izzy's absence was also a disintegrating factor. From 1992-93 interviews it's clear that they didn't know what they would do after the tour and they realized the difficulty to write without Izzy. In one interview Slash talked about the possibility of a band hiatus and him doing a solo album. Axl also talked about doing a side project with Trent Reznor etc. I think that had both of them done solo projects, the band probably wouldn't have broken up. Most likely Axl tried to approach musicians to work with and he was turned down, because he was "uncool" at that period. In 1993-94 it seems that he was undecided about where to go musically with GnR and he was experimenting with guitarists, Tobias etc; I believe him though in that he didn't try to impose an "industrial" direction on Slash and that, in 1995, he went for an album as Slash wanted it.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Blackstar

[Ratam]

23 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

Well i don't know if i'm right  but i approach @Ratam posts like a puzzle that i have to work out

??

[Asia]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 On the other hand, they've each experienced working with other musicians now, and in different environments/contexts, so maybe they've each grown and evolved as musicians

Yeah, well, could have done it within 2 to 4 years for example instead of wasting more than 20... Also, I'm not sure about Slash, maybe he learned and understood something during that time but I don't think it had any good effect on Axl, more like a pretty devastating one...

[Ubukitty]

44 minutes ago, purplestargirl said:

Ah, okay. I don't think Beta pays Meegan for anything, even denying or confirming information in relation to the band's last tour. She's a GNR spouse, that's all.

Just confirmed on 95.5 KLOS, GnR will be releasing a new album. Not the end, just the beginning.

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, Ubukitty said:

Just confirmed on 95.5 KLOS, GnR will be releasing a new album. Not the end, just the beginning.

wait, wait, wait, wait............. What???!!!!