GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[janrichmond]

@killuridols i'm loving your posts today!! 

[Natty]

5 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I need to find another bunch of self absorbed greedy bastards to follow.

I've been looking for the last 20 years and still not found anything quite the same. 

Fuck my life 

this 100 %

[janrichmond]

2 minutes ago, Frey said:

Why would GNR fans care about NuGNR? To me, there isn't much difference between NuGNR and the other guys' solo/side projects. To the majority of fans (those who fill the stadiums now), GNR died in the mid 90s. Most of these people didn't bother to follow NuGNR, Slash's solo stuff, Izzy's or anyone else's.

I disagree with this. I think a majority of GNR fans from the classic era either stuck by Axl/NuGuns OR Slash/Duff and Izzy.

[Frey]

9 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I disagree with this. I think a majority of GNR fans from the classic era either stuck by Axl/NuGuns OR Slash/Duff and Izzy.

I'm talking about the casual fans here, not nerds on the internet. I know tons of casual fans who consider themselves "GNR fans" and bought tickets for the NITL shows (or considered buying some at least) and none of them have a clue about what really happened in the past 2 decades.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Frey

[Natty]

2 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I disagree with this. I think a majority of GNR fans from the classic era either stuck by Axl/NuGuns OR Slash/Duff and Izzy.

I think so too. the people that now fill stadiums are not all gnr fans like people here on the forum. they just liked them when they were young like maybe 3 other bands they liked. for me gnr was and is my favourite band ever and I chose to follow Axl and Nu gnr even if i dont like cd 

[penelope]

1 hour ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

He lost me when he played for Martha Sanchez and Paulina Rubio.......that was...no words

Moja mi corazon  it's a good song.

I think Slash went into mercenary mode with Paulina Rubio. It made no sense.

The collab with Fergie makes me cringe, but that's subjetive.

[Natty]

2 minutes ago, Frey said:

I'm talking about the casual fans here, not nerds on the internet. I know tons of casual fans who consider themselves "GNR fans" and bought tickets for the NITL shows (or considered buying them at least) and none of them have a clue about what really happened in the past 2 decades.

 

it s strange to say that you are a fan of a band and then you dont follow at all what happened to them after they broke up. I dont get it. these are not fans in my eyes. if they didn t like what they saw and then decided just to not follow axl or slash or izzy anymore..thats totally ok. but claiming to be a fan and dont bother what happened after 94 /95.. strange

[Georgina Arriaga]

8 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I disagree with this. I think a majority of GNR fans from the classic era either stuck by Axl/NuGuns OR Slash/Duff and Izzy.

Well, Axl and his horrid gang of hired musicians went to El Salvador in 2010....I didn't bother.

GNR with Duff and Slash.....I almost die of happiness

[Frey]

Just now, Natty said:

it s strange to say that you are a fan of a band and then you dont follow at all what happened to them after they broke up. I dont get it. these are not fans in my eyes. if they didn t like what they saw and then decided just to not follow axl or slash or izzy anymore..thats totally ok. but claiming to be a fan and dont bother what happened after 94 /95.. strange

Why is that strange? I do the same thing with other bands (and so do you probably unless you only like GNR). I like lots of other bands besides GNR and would probably say I'm a fan of that band or their music, but I don't really spend any time on keeping up with them or following them like I do with GNR. (How could I? I already waste enough time following this band, no time or motivation to do the same with any other bands I like).

 

 

[Zoot]

4 minutes ago, Natty said:

it s strange to say that you are a fan of a band and then you dont follow at all what happened to them after they broke up. I dont get it. these are not fans in my eyes. if they didn t like what they saw and then decided just to not follow axl or slash or izzy anymore..thats totally ok. but claiming to be a fan and dont bother what happened after 94 /95.. strange

Some people only care about the music and aren't interested in the musicians lives or the bands politics. Considering GNR's history, those fans might be the smart ones. No headaches or stress for them.

[janrichmond]

6 minutes ago, Frey said:

I'm talking about the casual fans here, not nerds on the internet. I know tons of casual fans who consider themselves "GNR fans" and bought tickets for the NITL shows (or considered buying some at least) and none of them have a clue about what really happened in the past 2 decades.

 

Well I was a massive fan from the release of Appetite. However I loved Snakepit and VR, JuJu Hounds and Gilby  and there were no GNR to see/hear until THAT MTV debacle which was such a let down. I could not believe the changes/sound so 

i didn't bother with Nu Guns so i didn't really know about the last 20 years in respect of Axl's band. I'm sure some fans managed to follow all incarnations of GNR but sadly i couldn't .

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Frey said:

I agree.

I tend to believe Axl on this one too. For one, Axl says he has the rehearsal tapes from back then and there's nothing but Slash-based blues rock on there. To make a claim like that, he can probably back it up.

For another, Duff has also supported Axl's claims and he also said he thought the material was crappy. And while I don't value Duff's words as much as I used to anymore these days, it's still notable in that it's unusual because Duff tends to side with Slash for the most part. So Duff must have really disliked whatever Slash was trying to push.

Yeah. If it was only Axl's claim, and everyone else had said otherwise, I'd be very skeptical. But it's confirmed by other sources, especially by what all of them had said in interviews of that period (1995-96).

We don't know everything about what happened during all that period (1993-96); there are blanks and contradictory claims (sometimes even by the same person in different time frames). What we have is a) interviews/quotes from that period (which are the most reliable sources), b) later accounts of the people involved (interviews, autobiographies, Axl's chats etc), c) accounts of other people close to the band (Marc Canter, Doug Goldstein etc), d) some legal documents that are accessible online. If one reads all these sources, combines them and filters them, leaving out longtime preconceived notions (or recent epiphanies) and biases about who was the villain of the soap opera, we can have a pretty clear frame of the series of events and of the causal links between them.

People often confuse events and different phases, because Axl's way of writing/talking is abstract and context lacking and Slash's book goes back and forth in the timeline.

There were two different phases: 1) 1993-94 (Gilby's firing, Tobias/Sympathy For The Devil, Snakepit songs), 2) 1995-96 (Zakk Wylde sessions, Slash's Snakepit tour, Izzy's brief return, Axl gets ownership of the name, sessions with Axl being the rhythm guitarist). Duff was referring to the first phase.

I'll write a lengthy post later about all this - probably there will be 5 more pages of replies until I post it

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Blackstar

[killuridols]

37 minutes ago, Frey said:

I really don't think his motivations in bringing in Tobias had anything to do with changing the sound of the band. What credentials does Tobias have that would make him a good choice for that? Even if Axl wanted to completely change the sound of the band and go into a more industrial direction for example (which Axl denies btw), how would Paul Tobias be any use in that? There's nothing Trent Reznor-ish about the guy.

If anything, Tobias probably had the opposite effect- he probably brought more of a simple, Indiana-like vibe to the table. Which I think is part of why Axl thought to bring him in actually - he couldn't have Izzy (for whatever reasons), so replacing him with another childhood buddy guitarist from Indiana whose songwriting Axl also liked might have seemed like the next best thing to him.

So what was the purpose of Tobias in the band?

He stayed. He played Rock In Rio and got collaboration credits on Chinese Democracy. It doesn't look to me that he was brought in to just hang around. Didn't he write or play the piano in TWAT? That doesn't sound like Izzy at all to me!

Please go listen that radio interview that you asked for the other day. The one he gave to the Argie radio station. Please listen to him saying he thought the sound of the old band was dated and he wanted to change that or at least evolve it. He also says he didn't mean to go industrial but doesn't explain either what exactly was the sound he wanted to have. Just mentions that he didn't want to play AFD style anymore. And that's Izzy style, so no, I don't think he brough Tobias to replace Izzy. He brought Tobias to balance the power in the band. He saw he was completely alone and that the rest of the band would gang against his ideas.

Tobias (and Dizzy) would be the puppets who wouldn't object the new sound. And this is the reason why he's keeping Fortus and Ferrer. To balance things in the power ownership.

37 minutes ago, Frey said:

Why would GNR fans care about NuGNR? To me, there isn't much difference between NuGNR and the other guys' solo/side projects. To the majority of fans (those who fill the stadiums now), GNR died in the mid 90s. Most of these people didn't bother to follow NuGNR, Slash's solo stuff, Izzy's or anyone else's.

I'll agree that Axl had it easier as a singer and as the owner of the band name, but in the end, none of them really impressed me on their own or made me care enough to really follow what they were doing during that time and the majority of GNR fans seemed to have felt the same way.

Because the nuGN'R was presented as the "current GN'R", the continuation of the old band. This is like a soccer team or any other sports team.... do you quit liking the team everytime the players change? No, people are fans of a team forever and throughout generations, no matter who plays in it.

That's the idea behind the GN'R that Axl presented to the public in 2001. Now, it is your personal decision to like it or not, to follow it or not. Some people stayed around (like me), others jumped ship and said fuck it.....

See, Velvet Revolver had success because they didn't call it Guns N' Roses even if they sounded a bit like GN'R. They were another band not pretending to replace Axl with a look alike singer and shit like that.

All in all, Guns N' Roses was still Guns N' Roses in Axl's vision and that's what he offered when he toured under the name with different musicians. He also recorded an album under that name with different people. Legally, everything is Guns N' Roses whether you like it or not.

35 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

@killuridols i'm loving your posts today!! 

lol, thank you. I'm a lovely critter sometimes!

21 minutes ago, Natty said:

it s strange to say that you are a fan of a band and then you dont follow at all what happened to them after they broke up. I dont get it. these are not fans in my eyes. if they didn t like what they saw and then decided just to not follow axl or slash or izzy anymore..thats totally ok. but claiming to be a fan and dont bother what happened after 94 /95.. strange

I agree with this and then we have to put up with their shit at the shows. It's so fucking annoying

But there's nothing we can do about it. There will be posers everywhere and all the time. People move on from stuff as well...... its just life........ I hung around during those years but I didn't sit myself on a chair waiting for them to come back. I became fan of other artists and I'm proud of it. Maybe I'm not a creep for them like I am for GN'R but it is nice to have other options.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by killuridols

[Asia]

5 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I'm sure some fans managed to follow all incarnations of GNR but sadly i couldn't .

None that I have known in my life, that's what I can say for sure... Haven't seen general statistics though.

 

35 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

I need to find another bunch of self absorbed greedy bastards to follow.

I've been looking for the last 20 years and still not found anything quite the same. 

Fuck my life 

This is the best post ever! Yes, story of my life Years ago I wanted to fins a similar band to follow that wouldn't be pissing me off so much but failed.

5 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I'm sure some fans managed to follow all incarnations of GNR but sadly i couldn't .

Me neither. Didn't follow NuGNR, didn't follow Slash or Duff or VR. Sorry, for me all their side projects (and GNR was Axl's side project) were just inexplicable shit compared to GN'R and I am not one to be satisfied with shit just because there's a GNR member involved and a nice riff or solo or melody here and there in an otherwise shitty song

[MillionsOfSpiders]

35 minutes ago, Frey said:

Everything else is just too boring and drama-free by comparison

So true. I have tried to force myself to favouritise other bands but it's boring AF! 

31 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

I disagree with this. I think a majority of GNR fans from the classic era either stuck by Axl/NuGuns OR Slash/Duff and Izzy.

I am one of those poor stepkid-fans. I followed all of them as much as I possibly could, bought the solo music and went to see them live when they came here and always with a bit of heartache because I wanted them all to get back together and live happily ever after  

It's still the same now! 

[marlingrl03]

15 minutes ago, Asia said:

Me neither. Didn't follow NuGNR, didn't follow Slash or Duff or VR. Sorry, for me all their side projects (and GNR was Axl's side project) were just inexplicable shit compared to GN'R and I am not one to be satisfied with shit just because there's a GNR member involved and a nice riff or solo or melody here and there in an otherwise shitty song

Ditto and I don't think that at all makes me a bad fan, but that is my opinion. I just couldn't follow their side projects...it broke my heart when the group disbanded (UYI era) and while I absolutely want the classic lineup back together...I was cool with Gilby and Matt. But you give me no Matt, Gilby and NO Slash or Duff.  FUCK No. I'm sorry but that is how I feel. So this reunion is not what I would 100% love to see....but I am thrilled that at least Slash and Duff are back. I will take it god damn it! 

[Frey]

37 minutes ago, killuridols said:

So what was the purpose of Tobias in the band?

He stayed. He played Rock In Rio and got collaboration credits on Chinese Democracy. It doesn't look to me that he was brought in to just hang around. Didn't he write or play the piano in TWAT? That doesn't sound like Izzy at all to me!

I think he was brought in as a temporary solution or on a trial basis, but after everyone else (Slash, Duff, etc.) was gone, he just hung around like the useless hanger-on he is. Just like Dizzy.

I don't know enough about what PT wrote or didn't write, but most of CD (and especially TWAT since you mentioned it) certainly doesn't sound industrial to me. Most of CD actually sounds like an up-dated or more modern version of some UYI songs, which I think takes away from the claims of Axl wanting to go into a completely different direction, even though Axl wanted to get away from the AFD sound.

37 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Because the nuGN'R was presented as the "current GN'R", the continuation of the old band. This is like a soccer team or any other sports team.... do you quit liking the team everytime the players change? No, people are fans of a team forever and throughout generations, no matter who plays in it.

That's the idea behind the GN'R that Axl presented to the public in 2001. Now, it is your personal decision to like it or not, to follow it or not. Some people stayed around (like me), others jumped ship and said fuck it.....

Well, I don't really give a shit about sports, but I don't find bands and sports teams comparable. I would indeed stop being interested in a band if all the key memberes were replaced (because it wouldn't be the same band anymore, it would sound different, produce different music, etc.), but it's pretty normal for sports teams to constantly go through changing line-ups because their only goal is to win, so no one cares. In fact, people are thrilled to get better players into a sports team. But hardly anyone was thrilled about Buckethead replacing Slash, even though Buckethead is a better guitar player than Slash, technically speaking. Because bands aren't about winning, bands are about creation and making art (or should be ideally, but that is another topic ). And that is something much more personal and emotional to people, so they care more deeply about who is involved and how the people involved influence the end product.

40 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah. If it was only Axl's claim, and everyone else had said otherwise, I'd be very skeptical. But it's confirmed by other sources, especially by what all of them had said in interviews of that period (1995-96).

We don't know everything about what happened during all that period (1993-96); there are blanks and contradictory claims (sometimes even by the same person in different time frames). What we have is a) interviews/quotes from that period (which are the most reliable sources), b) later accounts of the people involved (interviews, autobiographies, Axl's chats etc), c) accounts of other people close to the band (Marc Canter, Doug Goldstein etc), d) some legal documents that are accessible online. If one reads all these sources, combines them and filters them, leaving out longtime preconceived notions (or recent epiphanies) and biases about who was the villain of the soap opera, we can have a pretty clear frame of the series of events and of the causal links between them.

People often confuse events and different phases, because Axl's way of writing/talking is abstract and context lacking and Slash's book goes back and forth in the timeline.

There were two different phases: 1) 1993-94 (Gilby's firing, Tobias/Sympathy For The Devil, Snakepit songs), 2) 1995-96 (Zakk Wylde sessions, Slash's Snakepit tour, Izzy's brief return, Axl gets ownership of the name, sessions with Axl being the rhythm guitarist). Duff was referring to the first phase.

I'll write a lengthy post later about all this - probably there will be 5 more pages of replies until I post it

I'll look forward to that.

I freely admit I'm a bit unclear about all the dates and timelines in GNR history as well lol. A summary/overview would probably be good for all of us.

 

14 minutes ago, marlingrl03 said:

35 minutes ago, Asia said:

Me neither. Didn't follow NuGNR, didn't follow Slash or Duff or VR. Sorry, for me all their side projects (and GNR was Axl's side project) were just inexplicable shit compared to GN'R and I am not one to be satisfied with shit just because there's a GNR member involved and a nice riff or solo or melody here and there in an otherwise shitty song

Ditto and I don't think that at all makes me a bad fan, but that is my opinion. I just couldn't follow their side projects...it broke my heart when the group disbanded (UYI era) and while I absolutely want the classic lineup back together...I was cool with Gilby and Matt. But you give me no Matt, Gilby and NO Slash or Duff.  FUCK No. I'm sorry but that is how I feel. So this reunion is not what I would 100% love to see....but I am thrilled that at least Slash and Duff are back. I will take it god damn it! 

I'm glad you guys are proving my point for me that a lot of GNR fans didn't stick around for any of their solo adventures (including NuGNR), even among internet nerds apparently

 

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by Frey

[killuridols]

2 hours ago, Frey said:

I think he was brought in as a temporary solution or on a trial basis, but after everyone else (Slash, Duff, etc.) was gone, he just hung around like the useless hanger-on he is. Just like Dizzy.

I don't know enough about what PT wrote or didn't write, but most of CD (and especially TWAT since you mentioned it) certainly doesn't sound industrial to me. Most of CD actually sounds like an up-dated or more modern version of some UYI songs, which I think takes away from the claims of Axl wanting to go into a completely different direction, even though Axl wanted to get away from the AFD sound.

In that radio interview from 2001 they ask him about the industrial thing and he says that maybe people thought of that because of "Oh My God". CD took long enough for Axl to change his mind over and over and get rid of those ideas, because by the time he decided to release the album, all those fads had faded anyway

Who knows maybe when Slash was still around Axl was stronger with his idea of making that kind of music?? OMG is from 1999..... Maybe Axl decided to quit on that once Trent Reznor ditched him for good?

Yeah, I agree CD doesn't sound industrial in the NIN sense of it but the amount of layers and synths and electronic shit doesn't exactly scream Izzy or Slash there . "Shackler's Revenge" always reminded me of "The Hand That Feeds". There's no way to know, really... but it isn't a chimera either that he recorded some songs with industrial roots.

2 hours ago, Frey said:

Well, I don't really give a shit about sports, but I don't find bands and sports teams comparable. I would indeed stop being interested in a band if all the key memberes were replaced (because it wouldn't be the same band anymore, it would sound different, produce different music, etc.), but it's pretty normal for sports teams to constantly go through changing line-ups because their only goal is to win, so no one cares. In fact, people are thrilled to get better players into a sports team. But hardly anyone was thrilled about Buckethead replacing Slash, even though Buckethead is a better guitar player than Slash, technically speaking. Because bands aren't about winning, bands are about creation and making art (or should be ideally, but that is another topic ). And that is something much more personal and emotional to people, so they care more deeply about who is involved and how the people involved influence the end product.

duh, I know.... I was just trying to explain to you why Axl thought of it that way and didn't see anything wrong with changing the whole lineup. He was convinced the fans and audience in general would buy his new vision of GN'R without protest and would receive the new album with open arms.

Of course, I didn't like it either, although I did buy the "Chinese Democracy will be the best GN'R album ever" bullshit and that's why I stuck around.... I know many people fell for it too..... Between that and losing GN'R forever, this was better than nothing. Now I see it wasn't and if they split up again I'll say fuck it and move on..... maybe...... I hope I can keep my promise

2 hours ago, Frey said:

I'm glad you guys are proving my point for me that a lot of GNR fans didn't stick around for any of their solo adventures (including NuGNR), even among internet nerds apparently

Is there anything to prove?

It's obvious he lost a lot of fans but he didn't lose them all. People were still paying tickets to see the nuGN'R and that's how he kept touring it for almost a decade. Of course, the venues got smaller and smaller but he managed to put himself out there and so did the other guys. None of them played stadiums but they still were able to grow a following. Velvet Revolver had many fans too.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by killuridols

[Fang]

I'm one of those that actually liked NuGuns, mainly because my fav was always Axl. Having been in several bands, I know it's hard to keep members. I like to think of bands as groups of friends, but in reality they are usually a bunch of individuals who place their own success above all else, even friendship. It sucks, but it is a common thing for musicians

[Rocketqueen76]

5 hours ago, Frey said:

most of CD (and especially TWAT since you mentioned it) certainly doesn't sound industrial to me. Most of CD actually sounds like an up-dated or more modern version of some UYI songs, which I think takes away from the claims of Axl wanting to go into a completely different direction, even though Axl wanted to get away from the AFD sound.

Yes this! I had the exact same thought about CD. Nothing about it sounds too off the beaten path of what Guns was already doing. So it really is hard to discern where the truth lies.

[Georgina Arriaga]

Investigating a little about that SMKC rumor, This interview is from today in this journal form Brazil:

http://www.destakjornal.com.br/noticias/diversao-arte/queriamos-fazer-musica-sem-um-molde-especifico-342905/

Quote

 

O álbum mais recente do Alter Bridge, 'The Last Hero', foi lançado em 2016. Existe algum novo projeto em que vocês estejam trabalhando?

Na verdade, não sei se existe um projeto em um futuro próximo. Nossa agenda de shows está lotada. Pensamos em montar uma apresentação com uma orquestra completa, em algum momento, mas cada um de nós tem seu próprio trabalho. Myles [Kennedy, o vocalista da banda] atua com Slash, e eu e Mark [Tremonti, o guitarrista] queremos gravar um disco juntos.

 

The translation from the Portuguese to English is something like this:

 

Quote

In fact, I do not know if there is a project in the near future. Our schedule of shows is full. We think of putting together a performance with a full orchestra at some point, but each of us has his or her own work. Myles [Kennedy, the lead singer of the band] acts with Slash, and me and Mark [Tremonti, the guitarist] want to record a record together.

I don't know all of you, but sound like Myles and Slash will do something together.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Georgina Arriaga

[purplestargirl]

1 hour ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Investigating a little about that SMKC rumor, This interview is from today in this journal form Brazil:

http://www.destakjornal.com.br/noticias/diversao-arte/queriamos-fazer-musica-sem-um-molde-especifico-342905/

The translation from the Portuguese to English is something like this:

 

I don't know all of you, but sound like Myles and Slash will do something together.

 

 

1 hour ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

In fact, I do not know if there is a project in the near future. Our schedule of shows is full. We think of putting together a performance with a full orchestra at some point, but each of us has his or her own work. Myles [Kennedy, the lead singer of the band] acts with Slash, and me and Mark [Tremonti, the guitarist] want to record a record together.

 Whoever did this interview sounds uncertain about that.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Myles already said in an interview that he talked to Slash about a new album and the Alter Bridge tour looks like it finishes around the same time as GnR. 

They're doing that orchestra thing in London in October. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

This whole SMKC in Argentina thing is kinda odd. I was told last year they were going to come to Argentina in late 2017 but then when GNR came, that comment changed to "GNR are thinking about coming back next year to finish the tour here" which is what ended up happening (except they're playing more shows in the US after coming to South America). It seems as if Slash wants to come here with SMKC as soon as he can but he doesn't know when GNR is taking time off to actually be able to do it.

As far as I know, the guy who tweeted about SMKC coming is in direct contact with the promoters who already brought SMKC three times (last one included that strange one off Loaded show opening). They are also the ones who brought Axl's solo band in 2014 when Duff joined them and I believe they're the ones who got Steven to be a part of GNR's shows in Argentina last year (one of them played with Steven at the Roxy afer the GNR show). 

I'm mentioning all these things because I think this guy is passing information he was given, not making shit up or starting rumors to get attention. BUT, even though Alter Bridge will have no activity in 2018, it's been confirmed by them on twitter and also by Myles himself in an interview that Myles will be releasing a solo album next year, which he wants to tour in support of. So, I'm guessing the SMKC shows (IF they happen) may take place in the second semester of 2018 after Myles is done touring his own album or very early before he releases it. Either way, that could mean GNR is touring the first half of the year (maybe doing a second european run) or taking a few months off and then coming back but so far there's no reason to assume they'll go on hiatus. Myles Kennedy is the busiest man in the music business so you can keep your hopes up if you're expecting NITL to last forever. Personally, I'm dying to hear SMKC III. Slash was prolific until he reconnected with Axl 

I'm done speculating, off to bed!

[Georgina Arriaga]

@BorderlineCrazy Thanks for you insight.

I'm not expecting the NITL tour last forever, I think we all want that GNR take advantage of this moment when apparently they are "in" again, doing a new album...I hate the idea of NITL finished, Slash go to Myles and Axl go into seclusion in Malibu for months or even years just eating junk food.