killuridols Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, chers said: BTW why does everoney have toto attack for my opinions No one is attacking you, we are talking to you 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, chers said: If a regular, everyday, person has mental issues or whatever, do you agree it's harder for them to acquire the same tools, poor millionaire Axl could. This what I mean My point is he has it easier than your regular person , and it's no about keeping or dumping Team fucking Brazil its about responsibility for his own actions, you talk like they have him chained up in his house ffs Why does everyone stick up for him like he's greater than anything on this world As @Frey said already, situations like this have nothing to do with whether someone is a regular person or a millionaire (and like @killuridols said it might be even more difficult in the case of Axl, as the the people in question are deeply involved in business affairs as well). Money don't make a difference here. Axl had the money to seek for proper therapy even before he met TB, but he didn't. You see, it's not that simple. And it's even more complicated because he seemingly feels that he owes these people no less than he's alive and functioning as much as he is; which is not totally unfounded, if the stories coming from various sources about Axl's suicide attempts in the 90s and 00s are true (and most likely they are). Edited March 8, 2017 by Blackstar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jane M. Posted March 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 15 minutes ago, chers said: oh ok, what does this mean It means you open a debate about a topic and now you have to play the game or let the pros get the ball and score the goals, as we usually do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketqueen76 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jane M. said: OMG....I love this LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 27 minutes ago, chers said: The point is he's a grown ass adult, yet people keep blaming everyone around him at his problems, he can do whatever fucking decision he wants, he can keep the people around, but he's responsible at some point for his own problems, everyone is Lol no, that's where you're already wrong imo. The unfortunate reality is that in real life, many people never turn into responsible "grown ass adults" for whatever reasons (life experiences, mental health issues, genetic/birth defects,...). That's why we have people who have care-takers, people living in assisted living facilities, people in institutions, people in prison, people with legal guardians, people who commit suicide, crazy homeless people... I've long thought that Axl would be in one of the above groups (likely prison, suicide or an institution if @killuridols is to be believed) if he hadn't gotten ridiculously lucky or if certain events in his life had turned out just a tiny bit differently than they did. And let's be real, Axl does have care takers, it's just that they're referred to as his "personal assistants" because he's rich and famous. But if you listen to what certain people have to say, it's clear that everyone around Axl thought of his personal assistans as Axl's babysitters/care takers. 22 minutes ago, chers said: If a regular, everyday, person has mental issues or whatever, do you agree it's harder for them to acquire the same tools, poor millionaire Axl could. This what I mean My point is he has it easier than your regular person , and it's no about keeping or dumping Team fucking Brazil its about responsibility for his own actions, you talk like they have him chained up in his house ffs Why does everyone stick up for him like he's greater than anything on this world You don't need actual physical chains to have influence over someone or even to control someone. Other types of "chains" are much more effective. And it's got nothing to do with sticking up for Axl (though I do that on occasions when I feel it's deserved), it's about being realistic. Ultimately, Axl is not a "normal" person (and I'm obviously not talking about him being a rockstar, a millionaire or whatever), and it's pointless to hold him to the same standard as... Duff for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketqueen76 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I think I have to call bullshit on a couple of comments....I'll just leave it there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, Frey said: Lol no, that's where you're already wrong imo. The unfortunate reality is that in real life, many people never turn into responsible "grown ass adults" for whatever reasons (life experiences, mental health issues, genetic/birth defects,...). That's why we have people who have care-takers, people living in assisted living facilities, people in institutions, people in prison, people with legal guardians, people who commit suicide, crazy homeless people... I've long thought that Axl would be in one of the above groups (likely prison, suicide or an institution if @killuridols is to be believed) if he hadn't gotten ridiculously lucky or if certain events in his life had turned out just a tiny bit differently than they did. And let's be real, Axl does have care takers, it's just that they're referred to as his "personal assistants" because he's rich and famous. But if you listen to what certain people have to say, it's clear that everyone around Axl thought of his personal assistans as Axl's babysitters/care takers. You don't need actual physical chains to have influence over someone or even to control someone. Other types of "chains" are much more effective. And it's got nothing to do with sticking up for Axl (though I do that on occasions when I feel it's deserved), it's about being realistic. Ultimately, Axl is not a "normal" person (and I'm obviously not talking about him being a rockstar, a millionaire or whatever), and it's pointless to hold him to the same standard as... Duff for example. ok dude, whatever, there's people here who love to attack and keep people quiet, unless it's their exact fuckin opinions as them , I get it I was stating my point which is how I see it, I love this band, but I tell it as I see, you hacve different opinions, so do whatever, who gives a damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketqueen76 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, Frey said: Ultimately, Axl is not a "normal" person (and I'm obviously not talking about him being a rockstar, a millionaire or whatever), and it's pointless to hold him to the same standard as... Duff for example. Yes this my friend! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killuridols Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Frey said: I've long thought that Axl would be in one of the above groups (likely prison, suicide or an institution if @killuridols is to be believed) if he hadn't gotten ridiculously lucky or if certain events in his life had turned out just a tiny bit differently than they did. And let's be real, Axl does have care takers, it's just that they're referred to as his "personal assistants" because he's rich and famous. But if you listen to what certain people have to say, it's clear that everyone around Axl thought of his personal assistans as Axl's babysitters/care takers. When I was learning about Axl and GN'R (a long ass time ago ) and there was no Internet and there was no TB around, reading that he had "personal assistants" or babysitters being 25 years old made me laugh hard. I thought the writers were joking or something, and I didn't have much of the information that I have now. But then I found out this was no joke and that he, indeed, had people doing stuff for him or actually "babysitting" him and well.... that seemed odd to me. Now it is not so much as I've learned a lot more about him and why he needs this kind of people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rocketqueen76 Posted March 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 minute ago, chers said: ok dude, whatever, there's people here who love to attack and keep people quiet, unless it's their exact fuckin opinions as them , I get it I was stating my point which is how I see it, I love this band, but I tell it as I see, you hacve different opinions, so do whatever, who gives a damn Don't ever stop giving your opinion....don't ever feel you have to be quiet either 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thank you so much 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, chers said: ok dude, whatever, there's people here who love to attack and keep people quiet, unless it's their exact fuckin opinions as them , I get it I was stating my point which is how I see it, I love this band, but I tell it as I see, you hacve different opinions, so do whatever, who gives a damn If you're talking about this particular thread, it's true that there have been a few very heated debates that sometimes ended up in personal attacks. In your case, though, no one attacked you personally. You came here and posted an opinion and people replied and argued. It's what you and everyone else should expect when they state an opinion, not that everyone would agree with them. Edited March 8, 2017 by Blackstar typos 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, killuridols said: When I was learning about Axl and GN'R (a long ass time ago ) and there was no Internet and there was no TB around, reading that he had "personal assistants" or babysitters being 25 years old made me laugh hard. I thought the writers were joking or something, and I didn't have much of the information that I have now. But then I found out this was no joke and that he, indeed, had people doing stuff for him or actually "babysitting" him and well.... that seemed odd to me. Now it is not so much as I've learned a lot more about him and why he needs this kind of people. Yes, which leads us back to people giving "their opinion". The problem is not people giving their opinions, the problem is people having uninformed opinions and then getting pissy when people who have significantly more insight and background information about a subject (like many of the long time posters in this thread who've been through all the other debates) disagree with them. 5 minutes ago, Blackstar said: If you're talking about this particular thread, it's true that there have been a few very heated debates that sometimes ended up in personal attacks. In your case, though, no one attacked you personally. You came here and posted an opinion and people replied and argued. It's what you and everyone else should expect when they state an opinion, not that everyone would agree with them. Exactly. Edited March 8, 2017 by Frey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 yes, i've seen people arguing all the time here, but you all are agreeing w/each other today, since I'm the new poster I get the abuse, haha, but Ive seen everyone of you argue w/one another previosly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alja Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, Frey said: I've long thought that Axl would be in one of the above groups (likely prison, suicide or an institution if @killuridols is to be believed) if he hadn't gotten ridiculously lucky or if certain events in his life had turned out just a tiny bit differently than they did. And let's be real, Axl does have care takers, it's just that they're referred to as his "personal assistants" because he's rich and famous. But if you listen to what certain people have to say, it's clear that everyone around Axl thought of his personal assistans as Axl's babysitters/care takers. For me it makes perfect sense just because... People tend to think if you are extremely skilled in, like, arts or science, you perfectly master the most common activities. Because you are f*ckin` genius and you easily do things no one else master. The truth cannot be further from this. So you make a circle of people who do that basic things for you and you can wander in your abstract worlds. This connection can be really vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, chers said: yes, i've seen people arguing all the time here, but you all are agreeing w/each other today, since I'm the new poster I get the abuse, haha, but Ive seen everyone of you argue w/one another previosly Yes. Because that's kind of the point of having a discussion. But there is a difference between having a nice heated (but civil) discussion and... well. 2 minutes ago, Alja said: For me it makes perfect sense just because... People tend to think if you are extremely skilled in, like, arts or science, you perfectly master the most common activities. Because you are f*ckin` genius and you easily do things no one else master. The truth cannot be further from this. So you make a circle of people who do that basic things for you and you can wander in your abstract worlds. This connection can be really vital. I'm not convinced Axl is a genius (though certainly gifted musically), but yes, very gifted people commonly fail at day-to-day living issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fansince88 Posted March 8, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) Right now, I get how he feels..... Edited March 8, 2017 by Fansince88 Can't type. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 2 minutes ago, chers said: yes, i've seen people arguing all the time here, but you all are agreeing w/each other today, since I'm the new poster I get the abuse, haha, but Ive seen everyone of you argue w/one another previosly Maybe it's as simple as that we just happen to agree in this particular subject, while we disagree on others and it doesn't have anything to do with you being a new poster. Speaking for myself, I don't have different criteria for old and new members in regards to opinions. If I agreed with you I wouldn't have a problem to say so, but I just don't agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just now, Frey said: Yes. Because that's kind of the point of having a discussion. But there is a difference between having a nice heated (but civil) discussion and... well. Do you know Axl and the guys personally , what do you mean civil; you've had arguments less civil here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thanks to the people who pmd me during this argument and your support, won't mention any names Not like this, I'm loyal Anyways I agree w/my point, boy have I learned what it's like to disagree here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, Blackstar said: Maybe it's as simple as that we just happen to agree in this particular subject, while we disagree on others and it doesn't have anything to do with you being a new poster. Speaking for myself, I don't have different criteria for old and new members in regards to opinions. If I agreed with you I wouldn't have a problem to say so, but I just don't agree. Seriously. And same. 7 minutes ago, chers said: Do you know Axl and the guys personally , what do you mean civil; you've had arguments less civil here I know enough. And not sure what you're talking about, because I don't tend to attack people personally and try to be respectful in my replies, though some people certainly make it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post alfierose Posted March 8, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2017 Let's stop derailing the thread with this argument. As Blackstar and Frey have stated the discussion here may be robust at times but no one has made it personal. Differing opinions can often be heated and blunt but this is not the same as a personal attack. We don't wish new members to feel unwanted but opinions are there to be challenged in any debate. There will be plenty of people on both sides of the Axl subject in question. Having said that, it doesn't hurt to be gentle in replies to newer members who are not as familiar with this thread. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoot Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) For those that would like to listen Duff is about to do an interview on KIRO radio. They didn't give a specific start time but here's the link: http://kiroradio.com/category/kiroradiolive/ Edit: Started at 12:58 Edited March 8, 2017 by Kris_1989 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chers Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 @alfieroseHaving said that, it doesn't hurt to be gentle in replies to newer members who are not as familiar with this thread. Thanks for this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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