Who Have the Bigger Say in the Band- Slash or Team Brazil?

[Ratam]

2 hours ago, Magnus Cavalerra said:

How the fuck TB has anything to say, they basically just assistant/employee, Axl has all the say, they do what Axl tell to do, and they don't do anything what Axl told them not to do. 

 

Axl to Beta is just like Batman to Alfred, there's a lot example of this kind relationship on real life, especially around rich people, how the fuck you y'all micro analyzing this thing and come up with some kind of fanfic thesis is way beyond retard. Blaming someone's else butler it's pretty stupid too because they just do what their boss asked them to. 

Spot on 👍

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, killuridols said:

I don't think this is the case of AFD or the Illusion albums. They all decided on that and that's why they went great.

Once Axl started deciding alone on when to release music, that's how we arrived to the pathetic waiting of decades to hear something new and we are still stuck on that. Next year will be 10 years since the release of Chinese Democracy.

You should watch the interview of Axl and Duff with Brazilian TV last year. Axl clearly says he told Fernando to go get Slash number.

Does that sound like the idea was born in Fernando's head? Axl also says that Beta asked him if it was a joke, which clearly shows that not even Beta believed it until she saw it.

No one in TB moved a finger for this happening. It is obvious it was Axl's final decision and idea he was cooking in his mind probably from talks he previously had with Duff. Then Slash was invited for dinner and I assume that's when everything started rolling.

The shows are going smoothly because there are very strict contracts behind. Not because TB is disciplining Axl backstage. This is the same Axl and this is the same TB from decades ago, arriving late and being a mess. The only difference now is the millions of dollars that he could lose and the lawsuits he could face if he was going to fuck it up because of tantrums.

AFD anniversary doesn't matter only to people in the forum. That's so silly to say. That album deserved to be acknowledged artistically in some way but it wasn't. All that TB came up with is some lame ass fashion bullshit no fan cares about, only the posers. Something that only a handful of people in Los Angeles could see...... What's the point?

I think that's th biggest proof of TB being fucking useless and Axl being an idiot. It was done in such a strange shitty way that I'm not even sure if that was actually a celebration or what.

I wasn't talking about the AFD or UYI releases, I'm talking about what happens in 2017. And what happens in 2017 is Axl pays the bills, if he says no, that means nothing is happening.

I know TB didn't facilitate the reunion, I know they just carried out orders from Axl. 

The AFD album is obviously very near and dear to a lot of people, however with Guns not repackaging the album are the numbers down for people attending shows? nope, because the majority of people are not paying attention to this stuff, the majority of people don't really care about hearing the outtakes AND the majority of people are happy with how the albums as is, and IF GNR did decide to remaster or whatever a good portion of those people would still prefer the original version. It's silly to think that this forum is a basis for what a here and there fan wants from this band. People on tis forum want to know tour routes, when they've arrived in a country, what they play at soundcheck, who they guys are dating etc. people outside of this forum really don't bother with that.

What's the point of having a anniversary show in LA? well if you can't work that out you're on your own... also! it was broadcast live all for the entire world. 

I'm not a TB defender, I think they've done a poor job in most regards, and were largely to blame for the past line up frictions (not keeping the band members in the loop etc.). As far as Axl goes... he may be a lot of things but he's definitely not an idiot, considering that he's essentially transformed a 20+ year bad reputation in the space of a year an made millions, and millions of dollars in the process. It's not all about money, and it's not necessarily that fun to watch or how I might have planned things (if I was in charge), but it is what it is!

[killuridols]

10 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

The AFD album is obviously very near and dear to a lot of people, however with Guns not repackaging the album are the numbers down for people attending shows? nope, because the majority of people are not paying attention to this stuff, the majority of people don't really care about hearing the outtakes AND the majority of people are happy with how the albums as is, and IF GNR did decide to remaster or whatever a good portion of those people would still prefer the original version. It's silly to think that this forum is a basis for what a here and there fan wants from this band. People on tis forum want to know tour routes, when they've arrived in a country, what they play at soundcheck, who they guys are dating etc. people outside of this forum really don't bother with that.

But why are you mixing up shows, attendance and AFD anniversary?

A special release would have been just a way to celebrate the birth of that album and not necessarily aimed to draw more people to shows or to sell more albums. AFD is still their best seller and will always be. This forum has nothing to do with that, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

There are lots of fans outside this forum that are just informed as the people who spend their days here. This is not the only one source of information there is about GN'R.

16 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

As far as Axl goes... he may be a lot of things but he's definitely not an idiot, considering that he's essentially transformed a 20+ year bad reputation in the space of a year an made millions, and millions of dollars in the process. It's not all about money, and it's not necessarily that fun to watch or how I might have planned things (if I was in charge), but it is what it is!

He's transformed that reputation (part of it, not all, there are lots of people who still regard him as an asshole) because 1) time heals and people in general forget about shit that happened 20 years ago and 2) He did what people wanted him to do which is to bring back Slash. Had not he done the latter, he would still be seen as an idiot, asshole and stubborn.

[Tom2112]

2 hours ago, killuridols said:

But why are you mixing up shows, attendance and AFD anniversary?

A special release would have been just a way to celebrate the birth of that album and not necessarily aimed to draw more people to shows or to sell more albums. AFD is still their best seller and will always be. This forum has nothing to do with that, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

There are lots of fans outside this forum that are just informed as the people who spend their days here. This is not the only one source of information there is about GN'R.

He's transformed that reputation (part of it, not all, there are lots of people who still regard him as an asshole) because 1) time heals and people in general forget about shit that happened 20 years ago and 2) He did what people wanted him to do which is to bring back Slash. Had not he done the latter, he would still be seen as an idiot, asshole and stubborn.

Of course there are some people, not on this forum that are clued in... but I'm talking about your typical here and there fan, not someone who has every album, and searches GNR news daily etc. 

What exactly is your point about your AFD anniversary re-release idea? I think it's clear that IF they had released such a thing it would have been to celebrate the album... who's arguing that point? What I'm saying is that, they didn't do that, and nobody outside of this forum seems all that upset about it... my example of concert sales was to demonstrate that "what does concert sales have to do with a AFD re-release...?" Same thing when everyone on the forum said it's not right without Izzy and Steven... yet, everyone went enjoyed themselves and probably went for seconds... because at the end of the day, while it would it would have been cool, it wasn't that necessary or a deal breaker to the people who buy the tickets.

Would it have sold? of course, would people have been happy to get it? yes, but ultimately it was going to be the same album re-released with a heavy price tag, with a few nuggets that would only be of major interest to people like us, it's just a release for completists. Having said all of that, don't get me wrong! I would love to hear alternative takes of Rocket queen etc. with different vocals or guitar bits, I just think their focus should remain on putting on good shows, and when that's done all focus should be on the next new GNR record.

BTW It takes time to go back through all of that material, I know they've had time off between legs, but I'm sure the last thing any of them wanted to do was to root out the old Appetite masters and old live recordings.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Tom2112

[ericy210]

On 8/31/2017 at 9:35 AM, ChristmasFnatic said:

Aside from Axl of course. Say Slash suggest something which is the opposite of what TB wants, who got more pull? Will Axl automatically side with TB?

That's a broad, broad question.

In terms of what?  Tour logistics, creative decisions, song choice, tshirt design, riders, etc.?

they have totally different roles on the team.  It's apples and oranges.

[Draguns]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

Of course there are some people, not on this forum that are clued in... but I'm talking about your typical here and there fan, not someone who has every album, and searches GNR news daily etc. 

What exactly is your point about your AFD anniversary re-release idea? I think it's clear that IF they had released such a thing it would have been to celebrate the album... who's arguing that point? What I'm saying is that, they didn't do that, and nobody outside of this forum seems all that upset about it... my example of concert sales was to demonstrate that "what does concert sales have to do with a AFD re-release...?" Same thing when everyone on the forum said it's not right without Izzy and Steven... yet, everyone went enjoyed themselves and probably went for seconds... because at the end of the day, while it would it would have been cool, it wasn't that necessary or a deal breaker to the people who buy the tickets.

Would it have sold? of course, would people have been happy to get it? yes, but ultimately it was going to be the same album re-released with a heavy price tag, with a few nuggets that would only be of major interest to people like us, it's just a release for completists. Having said all of that, don't get me wrong! I would love to hear alternative takes of Rocket queen etc. with different vocals or guitar bits, I just think their focus should remain on putting on good shows, and when that's done all focus should be on the next new GNR record.

BTW It takes time to go back through all of that material, I know they've had time off between legs, but I'm sure the last thing any of them wanted to do was to root out the old Appetite masters and old live recordings.

Just to add to this, there are demos out there of the AFD tracks that are free and on YouTube. I used to have a cassette tape that I bought at a street fair with all of the demos from AFD. I'm a huge GNR fan, but I never bought the Hollywood Rose nor the Rapidfire Cds. 

I'm not exactly sure it would have been worth it to the band to rerelease AFD. The ROI just isn't there for them. I agree that I would rather see them take time and effort in putting on a great performance for the concerts. 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

What exactly is your point about your AFD anniversary re-release idea? I think it's clear that IF they had released such a thing it would have been to celebrate the album... who's arguing that point? What I'm saying is that, they didn't do that, and nobody outside of this forum seems all that upset about it... my example of concert sales was to demonstrate that "what does concert sales have to do with a AFD re-release...?" Same thing when everyone on the forum said it's not right without Izzy and Steven... yet, everyone went enjoyed themselves and probably went for seconds... because at the end of the day, while it would it would have been cool, it wasn't that necessary or a deal breaker to the people who buy the tickets.

The original comment I made about AFD anniversary doesn't have anything to do with re-releases. It is a couple pages back so you can go check it. I listed the failure to acknowledge the anniversary of AFD, similar to what other artists of the same caliber have done, as one of the things TB couldn't make in the right way. Some fans assumed that the show at the Apollo Theater was the official AFD celebration show, but in reality, they never talked straight about it. There was a hashtag, some billboards on NYC, but total silence during the show, so I'm not really sure if that was supposed to be a celebration of AFD or not.

Then you have the pop-up store in L.A. with fashion designers trying to sell excesively expensive items with GN'R imagery..... I'm not sure if that's the AFD celebration either

I don't know how or why we are talking about re-releases or shows. I didn't mention any of that. Maybe someone else did..... All I'm saying is that AFD 30 years anniversary was not properly celebrated or even acknowledged by the band. I have no idea which should have been the right way to do it. It could have been a re-release with some extra stuff; it could have been a special show; it could have been a movie.... I don't have a clue. I'm not the manager of GN'R.

All I know is that Steven Adler mentioned that Fernando was supposedly working on a special thing to celebrate the anniversary. But its September 4th and I'm still clueless about the celebration taking place or not. That's all I'm saying.

 

[AXL_N_DIZZY]

Not sure where I ultimately land on this TBH- but one might make the case it was smart not to make that big a deal about Appetite's 30th. With tons of tickets already sold- maybe there's little additional benefit (and potentially harm) to emphasizing that your definitive album (and major part of your set) is 30 years old and that 2 of the 5 (Steven & Izzy) are "missing".

Could be it's just better to leave it as a more general celebration of 25+ years ago when "Guns ruled the world" (i.e. with Appetite and UYI, etc.). You go out of your way to celebrate Appetite in 2017 and you may be limiting your options in the future in some way (i.e. "Hey- we already celebrated that. What else you got?")...

Edited September 5, 2017 by AXL_N_DIZZY

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, tremolo said:

In all honesty, most people going to GNR shows are going to listen to AFD/Lies songs first, UYI second, and CD third.

 

Saying people outside forums don't give a fuck about AFD is ridiculous.

My point about that is that they could have done something amazing, just once, and they would have completely blown everyone away. The most ambitious thing would have been a secret show (sort of like what happened at the Troubadour), just ONE show, small venue, Axl, Adler, Izzy, Slash, Duff. AFD from beginning to end, no encores, no filler, no covers. For that ONE show, split the loot in a "fair way". Have special merchandise at the venue for those lucky enough to get tickets, something special to commemorate. And on the side, release a special AFD "definitive edition" box kinda thing: the original album with the original cover on vinyl, a remastered version on vinyl, extended booklet with lyrics, credits, cool pics of the band during the AFD era, a statement from the AFD band, or even just Axl, an old press article about the album release/reception. An extra CD with demos of the songs of the album and some outtakes. A DVD/Blu-ray remastered version of an old show from the AFD era. All content coupled with digital downloads of all the tracks. Pack it all ina. Beautiful fancy box with the AFD cross embedded on top. Release it as a limited edition of 3000 units, sell it for $300 or whatever it might be worth. Release more affordable versions with less fancy.

 

Now, that would have been a treat for the fans and it would have created a frenzy out of this world. The re-release would have been 200% possible. The one-off live show would have required more logistics, but it was possible given that it was a one-off not to change the band, but to commemorate a groundbreaking album that is not just pivotal in the career if GNR, but in the whole popular/rock music history.

 

A good manager would have managed to pull that off. Having Duff and Slash already on board, all it would have taken was a negotiation with Adler and Izzy.

But then again, why try hard when you can just deliver half-assed shit that the hordes will consume anyway.

Saying people outside forums don't give a fuck about AFD is ridiculous... I DEFINITELY did not say that. I said that the majority of people don't care if GNR celebrate the anniversary in a live or re-release form, because no. 1 most are unaware of the anniversary and 2. they have other things in their life to worry about  AFD sells millions every year and is cited by every 2nd band, of course people care about it on and off forums.

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, killuridols said:

The original comment I made about AFD anniversary doesn't have anything to do with re-releases. It is a couple pages back so you can go check it. I listed the failure to acknowledge the anniversary of AFD, similar to what other artists of the same caliber have done, as one of the things TB couldn't make in the right way. Some fans assumed that the show at the Apollo Theater was the official AFD celebration show, but in reality, they never talked straight about it. There was a hashtag, some billboards on NYC, but total silence during the show, so I'm not really sure if that was supposed to be a celebration of AFD or not.

Then you have the pop-up store in L.A. with fashion designers trying to sell excesively expensive items with GN'R imagery..... I'm not sure if that's the AFD celebration either

I don't know how or why we are talking about re-releases or shows. I didn't mention any of that. Maybe someone else did..... All I'm saying is that AFD 30 years anniversary was not properly celebrated or even acknowledged by the band. I have no idea which should have been the right way to do it. It could have been a re-release with some extra stuff; it could have been a special show; it could have been a movie.... I don't have a clue. I'm not the manager of GN'R.

All I know is that Steven Adler mentioned that Fernando was supposedly working on a special thing to celebrate the anniversary. But its September 4th and I'm still clueless about the celebration taking place or not. That's all I'm saying.

 

TBH I've forgotten the original comments both of us made   

The celebration may didn't focus on a full play through of AFD, or have the original band, or have any releases attached to it... but GNR organised a whole broadcast with Sirius, and in my mind that's the acknowledgement enough. It would have been a nice touch to have seen them play the full album throughout the set, or even scatter a few extra AFD songs in... but that's not how GNR operate. I will say that when they played Sorry for the encore (although I like the song) I was scratching my head, surely that space should have gone to something like You're crazy. 

I know the majority of successful bands who have a milestone record go out of their way to celebrate those records, but we all have to remember GNR are not like most bands, and they never will be. I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now a anniversary AFD release comes out, right beside the CD remix album  the GNR juggernaut moves slowly, maybe there was plans for something more but 'Life got in the way' (which BTW should be the name of the next record) and MAYBE there is a bigger something coming down the pipeline, MAYBE Steven spoke about plans that were never really concrete plans and he just stirred the pot and got people excited about nothing. It's all a guessing game, and the band aren't giving any info so we're essentially spinning our wheels here  

[Inbox]

On 9/1/2017 at 8:50 AM, xBrownstonex said:

Isnt there some crazy sex fantasy you have to write about in the psycho, i mean womens discussion?

[Inbox]

16 hours ago, Magnus Cavalerra said:

How the fuck TB has anything to say, they basically just assistant/employee, Axl has all the say, they do what Axl tell to do, and they don't do anything what Axl told them not to do. 

 

Axl to Beta is just like Batman to Alfred, there's a lot example of this kind relationship on real life, especially around rich people, how the fuck you y'all micro analyzing this thing and come up with some kind of fanfic thesis is way beyond retard. Blaming someone's else butler it's pretty stupid too because they just do what their boss asked them to. 

I quite agree with you.

[killuridols]

47 minutes ago, tremolo said:

A "deluxe" re-release in limited numbers for the fans. A small one-off show in a theatre or small venue would have sold out in minutes.

This doesn't have much to do with the appreciation of AFD by the casual listener, in fact my point is to shine some light on the management and just another huge missed opportunity gone by; it's just to show how the dysfunctionality of this band has a lot to do with bad management, and how Fernando is not a natural talent, and that the only reason he is there is because he is his mother's son, not because of his credentials or long list of achievements.

Excellent

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

16 hours ago, tremolo said:

In all honesty, most people going to GNR shows are going to listen to AFD/Lies songs first, UYI second, and CD third.

 

Saying people outside forums don't give a fuck about AFD is ridiculous.

My point about that is that they could have done something amazing, just once, and they would have completely blown everyone away. The most ambitious thing would have been a secret show (sort of like what happened at the Troubadour), just ONE show, small venue, Axl, Adler, Izzy, Slash, Duff. AFD from beginning to end, no encores, no filler, no covers. For that ONE show, split the loot in a "fair way". Have special merchandise at the venue for those lucky enough to get tickets, something special to commemorate. And on the side, release a special AFD "definitive edition" box kinda thing: the original album with the original cover on vinyl, a remastered version on vinyl, extended booklet with lyrics, credits, cool pics of the band during the AFD era, a statement from the AFD band, or even just Axl, an old press article about the album release/reception. An extra CD with demos of the songs of the album and some outtakes. A DVD/Blu-ray remastered version of an old show from the AFD era. All content coupled with digital downloads of all the tracks. Pack it all ina. Beautiful fancy box with the AFD cross embedded on top. Release it as a limited edition of 3000 units, sell it for $300 or whatever it might be worth. Release more affordable versions with less fancy.

This is exactly what I thought was going to happen, and why I got so pissed off when it didn't and then felt compelled to rant in that thread where everyone was pretty much ranting about it too.  I'm over it now, but I will always believe that those guys ignoring the anniversary of AFD the way they did was thoughtless, lazy and ignorant, not to mention a slap in the face to the fans.  This band - Axl in particular - is the very definition of wasted opportunities.  I can only hope they don't waste the opportunity to record a new album.

Edited September 5, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[Tonto]

On 03/09/2017 at 12:00 PM, tremolo said:

Point is that whoever has been managing the band for the last 3-4 years has been doing a terrible job.

The manager has wasted an incredible oportunity –probably the biggest in the history of GNR– to put the band out there, to get close to the fans, to get Axl in good vocal shape to deliver outstanding performances, to commemorate the 30th anniversary of AFD... it has been nothing but a disaster in every single department imaginable. Why even bring up the obvious problem regarding new music...

So, no. Fernando doesn't have a natural talent for management and he doesn't have a natural talent for marketing, and he doesn't have a natural talent for PR, brand placement, etc.

He does seem to have a decent talent for business. I mean, they are making money no matter how shitty everything related to GNR is at the time. They put out a fashion line of very expensive clothes, and I assume they are selling like hot cakes, otherwise it would be just another failure to the list.

The tour commemorates Appetite, every show, it's a reunion of 3 key members! They haven't missed a trick with this new line up as of yet! It might be a disaster in your mind but it's not for the band or the MILLIONS of fans who have seen them play live and loved it.

New music? Releasing new music now would be a terrible business decision, that's what they need to do if they come back after this tour.

[Tonto]

On 05/09/2017 at 8:10 PM, tremolo said:

I still don't understand why they didn't do something cool about it.

It didn't have to be something huge, just a cool release for the fetishist fan. A beautiful box with all the goodies and rarities of the era. And that could have led to something similar for UYI.

I don't get it.

 

I know the vibe in the fanbase has a lot of negativity, but they (gnr) could change that in a heartbeat. All they have to do is listen to the fans and throw us a bone once in a while. These long silences from GNR stopped building up a mistique a long time ago. Now it's just a disregard for the fans and not caring.

You don't get it? Guns have never been that kind of band, no original b sides, hardly any dvd releases, they didn't even want the greatest hits to come out. It's a disregard of the fans? How? You have Appetite, right? What more needs to be said or done with that album? The success and music on that record speaks for itself, leave it alone, it's great.

[baileyredrose]

On 1/9/2017 at 3:12 AM, killuridols said:

The celebration of AFD 30 years: overpriced items created by fashion designers and sold in a weird store in L.A. that lasted what a fart in a jar.

God..  this was a shame.. FUCK.