Who Have the Bigger Say in the Band- Slash or Team Brazil?

[Silent Jay]

Dizzy Reed.

[janrichmond]

21 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

Dizzy Reed.

you mean Dizzy Fucking Reed

[Tonto]

 

1 hour ago, killuridols said:

ob-vious-ly.... when did that guy work somewhere other than under his mom's wing and Axl's protection?

Learning on the job is a bad way to learn to do something? 

Team Brazil only gets hate because people don't get what they want. They managed to pull off the reunion which had a lot of moving parts, something every manager before wanted to do but found impossible. They're not amateurs.

Most managers and producers learn on the job, look at Jimmy Iovine, is he not qualified to run Interscope because he started out as a studio technician? It's ridiculous and incredibly transparent.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tonto

[janrichmond]

Just now, Tonto said:

 

Learning on the job is a bad way to learn to do something? 

Team Brazil only gets hate because people don't get what they want. They managed to pull of the reunion which had a lot of moving parts, something every manager before wanted to do but found impossible. They're not amateurs.

Most managers and producers learn on the job, look at Jimmy Iovine, is he not qualified to run Interscope because he started out out as a studio technician? It's ridiculous and incredibly transparent.

Did i say that? I don't think so

[Tonto]

Just now, janrichmond said:

Did i say that? I don't think so

I wasn't replying to you.

[janrichmond]

1 minute ago, Tonto said:

I wasn't replying to you.

ok. I have my job because i was an intern

Edited August 31, 2017 by janrichmond

[Tonto]

3 minutes ago, janrichmond said:

ok. I have my job because i was an intern

That's how the world works, nothing wrong with it, as some (not you) around here think. Way of the world.

[soon]

In the Globo interview Axl said that Fernando also worked with other bands in various capacities.  Axl said something along the lines of "(He) worked his way up in this industry."

No idea what bands or what roles Axl is speaking to though.  

(not saying this to disagree that it doesnt mater where he stared and that most of us learn as we go)

 

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Tonto said:

Learning on the job is a bad way to learn to do something? 

Team Brazil only gets hate because people don't get what they want. They managed to pull off the reunion which had a lot of moving parts, something every manager before wanted to do but found impossible. They're not amateurs.

Most managers and producers learn on the job, look at Jimmy Iovine, is he not qualified to run Interscope because he started out as a studio technician? It's ridiculous and incredibly transparent.

Of course it's not. But one thing is starting really low in the ladder and different it is starting pretty high in the ladder, like Fernando did.

Show me what other bands and music industry job he's had then I'll believe you he's got previous experience. Good luck on your search

And I really doubt they pulled off the reunion

The reunion is the result of several things happening, but more precisely: Axl's nuGN'R line-up and finances imploding. Seeing the band sinking, losing money, owning money to employees and basically seeing the band getting reduced to a Vegas act is what made Axl wake up from his stubborness. It was a survival move to save the band. Nothing to do with TB talents or whatever you're trying to say here.

[Tonto]

7 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Of course it's not. But one thing is starting really low in the ladder and different it is starting pretty high in the ladder, like Fernando did.

Show me what other bands and music industry job he's had then I'll believe you he's got previous experience. Good luck on your search

And I really doubt they pulled off the reunion

The reunion is the result of several things happening, but more precisely: Axl's nuGN'R line-up and finances imploding. Seeing the band sinking, losing money, owning money to employees and basically seeing the band getting reduced to a Vegas act is what made Axl wake up from his stubborness. It was a survival move to save the band. Nothing to do with TB talents or whatever you're trying to say here.

Why do I need to show you what other experience he has had? I never said he had any other experience with any other bands, but TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead.

Who put together all of the different members and hashed out the deals? You think they get paid for doing nothing? The reason for Axl wanting the reunion isn't important, all sides can want to do something and still not pull it off (Izzy Stradlin, anyone?). A reunion was close before the greatest hits came out, Axl wanted Slash on CD back in 2001, none of that happened. This reunion nearly didn't happen and all sides wanted it! Just because someone wants something that doesn't make it a done deal. They pay these people for a reason, they're not icing balls and making lattes backstage all night.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tonto

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Why do I need to show you what other experience he has had? I never said he had any other experience with any other bands, but TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead.

You are replying your own question.... You say they've worked with other artists but you can't type one single name so everything you say about it is plain LOL.

7 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Who put together all of the different members and hashed out the deals? You think they get paid for doing nothing? The reason for Axl wanting the reunion isn't important, all sides can want to do something and still not pull it off (Izzy Stradlin, anyone?). A reunion was close before the greatest hits came out, Axl wanted Slash on CD back in 2001, none of that happened. This reunion nearly didn't happen and all sides wanted it! Just because someone wants something that doesn't make it a done deal. They pay these people for a reason, they're not icing balls and making lattes backstage all night.

The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone. Most of the time Axl didn't want Slash back or let's say, he was committed to not need Slash anymore and move on with his nuGNR project. He failed badly with it but he kept going until he found himself cornered by situations that he couldn't escape anymore.

 

[Tonto]

1 minute ago, killuridols said:

You are replying your own question.... You say they've worked with other artists but you can't type one single name so everything you say about it is plain LOL.

The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone. Most of the time Axl didn't want Slash back or let's say, he was committed to not need Slash anymore and move on with his nuGNR project. He failed badly with it but he kept going until he found himself cornered by situations that he couldn't escape anymore.

 

I am replying to your statement and I quite clearly concluded my sentence with "TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead." Clearly, I don't care about that, as it's not the point I was making. You brought that up, mate, please try to keep up.

Most of the time it wasn't wanted by everyone? How can you say "most of the time"? Did you conduct a survey of all members at all times during the last 25 years to see what each and every band member wanted to do? "You can't generalise like" I think you said.

[Original]

I'm guessing if/when Slash n Duff get alone with Axl that's when the most progress is made.   I also guess TB gets real nervous and tries to interrupt those moments.  Wonder if Duff gave Axl and $$ advice?   Guessing mommy and TB get most nervous on that.   

[killuridols]

4 minutes ago, Tonto said:

I am replying to your statement and I quite clearly concluded my sentence with "TB have worked with other artists from what we've heard through the grapevine, obviously not big bands like GN'R, but regardless, that's not my point, so the search will not go ahead." Clearly, I don't care about that, as it's not the point I was making. You brought that up, mate, please try to keep up.

My original comment was that Fernando never worked other job that is not GN'R, under his mother's wing and Axl's protection, which basically means that when he started everything about this band was done, worked out and functioning. His training cannot be compared to another person who begins in the industry managing small bands and fighting to have them signed, or to get them be heard by record companies, or getting them into festivals. He entered a company that was already set up, working and mainly run by Axl, who is the one who makes the biggest decisions, not Fernando.

You argued about what is wrong with learning in the job, assuming that I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about getting a job or how the employement world works. I wasn't questioning the way people usually work their way up in an industry or company. I was questioning the way TB did it and that's about it.

If you think that a band like Guns N' Roses deserves to be managed by NEWBIES, fine. That's your opinion; clearly not mine.

13 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Most of the time it wasn't wanted by everyone? How can you say "most of the time"? Did you conduct a survey of all members at all times during the last 25 years to see what each and every band member wanted to do? "You can't generalise like" I think you said.

Why do you twist my words?

My original comment is: "The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone". Translation for the dumb ones: Throughout all the years the members of this band spent away from each other, the reunion phantom haunted them all the time BUT each person was not ready for it at the same time as the others. When Axl wanted Slash, Slash wanted to go solo or he created another band and dedicated his time to that. Then Axl did not want Slash anymore, wanted to continue with his nuGN'R for all the time it lasted. He said Slash was a cancer "better be removed" and the least he heard about him, the better.... Do you think those are the words of someone who wanted a reunion? I think not in 2009, at least.

I said "Most of the time, Axl didn't want Slash back (...)"... Did you read well now? AXL, AXL, AXL...... Axl spent a whole decade and 5 more hating on Slash and not wanting to see his face, so yes, I think it is safe to say MOST OF THE TIME in this case.

As for the rest of your butthurt comment.... how many members did the original lineup have? If my imagination doesn't fool, there were five of them. Not so hard to recall what FIVE GUYS manifested about the reunion since 1995 or from whenever you want to track it back. They've given interviews and they can be found online for anyone to see. No need for surveys because they are public figures and the reunion has been a recurrent topic ever since they split.

 

[Tonto]

Just now, killuridols said:

My original comment was that Fernando never worked other job that is not GN'R, under his mother's wing and Axl's protection, which basically means that when he started everything about this band was done, worked out and functioning. His training cannot be compared to another person who begins in the industry managing small bands and fighting to have them signed, or to get them be heard by record companies, or getting them into festivals. He entered a company that was already set up, working and mainly run by Axl, who is the one who makes the biggest decisions, not Fernando.

You argued about what is wrong with learning in the job, assuming that I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about getting a job or how the employement world works. I wasn't questioning the way people usually work their way up in an industry or company. I was questioning the way TB did it and that's about it.

If you think that a band like Guns N' Roses deserves to be managed by NEWBIES, fine. That's your opinion; clearly not mine.

Why do you twist my words?

My original comment is: "The reunion wasn't wanted all the time at the same time by everyone". Translation for the dumb ones: Throughout all the years the members of this band spent away from each other, the reunion phantom haunted them all the time BUT each person was not ready for it at the same time as the others. When Axl wanted Slash, Slash wanted to go solo or he created another band and dedicated his time to that. Then Axl did not want Slash anymore, wanted to continue with his nuGN'R for all the time it lasted. He said Slash was a cancer "better be removed" and the least he heard about him, the better.... Do you think those are the words of someone who wanted a reunion? I think not in 2009, at least.

I said "Most of the time, Axl didn't want Slash back (...)"... Did you read well now? AXL, AXL, AXL...... Axl spent a whole decade and 5 more hating on Slash and not wanting to see his face, so yes, I think it is safe to say MOST OF THE TIME in this case.

As for the rest of your butthurt comment.... how many members did the original lineup have? If my imagination doesn't fool, there were five of them. Not so hard to recall what FIVE GUYS manifested about the reunion since 1995 or from whenever you want to track it back. They've given interviews and they can be found online for anyone to see. No need for surveys because they are public figures and the reunion has been a recurrent topic ever since they split.

 

So you can't be a manager of an already established band? Fernando has worked with GN'R for years and worked his way up to manager. He's been around it since he was a kid and learn't from the band and all the managers the band had on the way. His job is to get the things done, things that the band want to get done, do you think he'd still be there if he wasn't achieving that? 

Do you think I don't know that Axl makes most of the decisions? Really? Can you tell me of one other band on GN'R's level where the manager makes all the decisions? The manager works for the band! It sounds like you have an issue with managers in general mate, because nothing you've posted here backs up your position that he doesn't deserve his place as manager. You think Axl, Slash and Duff are drafting contacts all night? That's management and the lawyers. Do you think Axl, Slash and Duff are handling the logistics of the world tour? No, that's management and the promoters. 

Yes, I know the history of Guns N Roses, thank you very much, but there were many times over the years when all sides were amicable and they just couldn't get it done. It's not been 20 years of feuds, there have been ebbs and flows. To think that the manager of guns n roses didn't help to make the reunion happen on a business level is incredibly naive and only shows your inherent bias.

Further, nearly all of the original members now put the destruction of Guns N Roses down to the business side of things, managers, lawyers, etc, so I'm curious as to who exactly you think is qualified to manage the band and would be able to respect all sides of the deal?

[killuridols]

10 minutes ago, Tonto said:

So you can't be a manager of an already established band? Fernando has worked with GN'R for years and worked his way up to manager. He's been around it since he was a kid and learn't from the band and all the managers the band had on the way. His job is to get the things done, things that the band want to get done, do you think he'd still be there if he wasn't achieving that? 

Do you think I don't know that Axl makes most of the decisions? Really? Can you tell me of one other band on GN'R's level where the manager makes all the decisions? The manager works for the band! It sounds like you have an issue with managers in general mate, because nothing you've posted here backs up your position that he doesn't deserve his place as manager. You think Axl, Slash and Duff are drafting contacts all night? That's management and the lawyers. Do you think Axl, Slash and Duff are handling the logistics of the world tour? No, that's management and the promoters. 

So he's basically an assistant of Axl? That I already knew, thank you

Yeah, I guess he's still there because he successfully gets done everything that Axl wants to get done. If Axl wants a piece of cake at 4am, Fernando gets up to go get it. And so on..... I could do that too.

Why would I have a problem with managers? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. I have a problem with people who get nothing done and this band has not done shit.

Under the extraordinary management of TB the results are:
- 17 years of wait to release one album of new music
- Three (or was it four?) line-up changes. None of them featuring the original guys.
- A grotesque Hall of Fame induction and show
- Cringeworthy appearances of Axl on television
- Disastrous shows like RiR 2011 and Bridge School Benefit show
- Axl's image and public perception worse than ever (cancelled tours, cancelled shows, lateness, Axl out of control and aggressive)
- "Appetite For Democracy" sorry ass DVD
- Band reduced to a Vegas act
- Axl fatter than ever in 2014
- Half assed reunion and failure to get Izzy and Steven to play AT LEAST ONE fuckin' decent show together
- The celebration of AFD 30 years: overpriced items created by fashion designers and sold in a weird store in L.A. that lasted what a fart in a jar.
- Lame social media efforts, website, fan club, overpriced merch in general.
- No interviews, no information, absolutely nothing on future plans, projects, whether the band will live or die right now.

Oh well.... I'm fucking exhausted from listing the incredible amount of achievements by TB as successful managers of Axl. Please hand me a glass of water!

31 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Yes, I know the history of Guns N Roses, thank you very much, but there were many times over the years when all sides were amicable and they just couldn't get it done. It's not been 20 years of feuds, there have been ebbs and flows. To think that the manager of guns n roses didn't help to make the reunion happen on a business level is incredibly naive and only shows your inherent bias.

When was Axl amicable with Slash before 2015?????

Yeah, I see your knowledge of Guns N' Roses history is impeccable. Congrats!

For fucks sake... Slash, Izzy, Steven, Duff... they were all in a BLACK LIST of Axl's enemies penned by TB.

34 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Further, nearly all of the original members now put the destruction of Guns N Roses down to the business side of things, managers, lawyers, etc, so I'm curious as to who exactly you think is qualified to manage the band and would be able to respect all sides of the deal?

Yeah, typical of people like them, to try to blame others and save face for the shit they've done to each other.

If I remember correctly, Slash said the things he said with his own mouth and tongue. Same for Axl, the cancer comments and not in this lifetime came out from his own mouth, not from a manager or whatever. It is caught on tape. Ask TMZ. I mean.... there were lots of people in the middle who took advantage of these idiots to start or spread rumours and benefit themselves in the long run.... but they are adults and could have handled things better.

I have no idea who would be a great manager for them because I dont work in this industry and I'm not familiar with any names. Just because I don't think TB are good it doesn't mean that I'm lobbying for a particular someone.... My opinion is that a good manager would be someone who's not so emotionally attached to Axl like TB are. He considers them his family and I really doubt he's been able to keep things separate as he should.

Anyone who works or has worked in a family business knows how hard it is to make some decisions or tell someone they are not doing a good job when that person is your mother, your children or your nephew

So, IMO, a good manager for this one would be someone who can have an independent opinion, who has a lot of experience in the music industry. Someone who's worked for a long time on it, knows other horizons, other points of views, who has a different vision or a wider one and not people who just say yes to everything Axl comes up with. Also someone who can motivate him, offer him options, bring ideas, projects, new things..... Someone who comes from the outside of his very insular world.

 

[Tonto]

@KillYourIdols I'm glad it's so amusing to you that I claim that Axl was amicable with Slash before 2015, but the joke is on you. Marc Canter confirmed that Axl wanted Slash to play on 3 songs on Chinese Democracy. How's my GN'R history now? Izzy and Duff both played with Axl before the reunion and Axl made peace with Adler too, only to have it blow up in his face, typical Adler style.

Fernando is the manager of Guns N Roses, not Axl personal trainer, what does his size have to do with anything, it clearly doesn't negatively impact his singing voice, look at 2010, Axl was bigger than in 2014.

What you want is a manager who get’s things done for you, right? If Fernando was getting everything you wanted done you would think he is great. That’s not his job, he doesn’t work for you. You can not like him if you don’t want to, fine, but to insinuate that he’s not qualified for the job because he doesn’t manage other acts or because he learnt on the job is very strange and shows a clear bias. If you think the manager of Guns N Roses was not involved and was not instrumental in the negotiations of this reunion, then you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

[killuridols]

52 minutes ago, Tonto said:

@KillYourIdols I'm glad it's so amusing to you that I claim that Axl was amicable with Slash before 2015, but the joke is on you. Marc Canter confirmed that Axl wanted Slash to play on 3 songs on Chinese Democracy. How's my GN'R history now? Izzy and Duff both played with Axl before the reunion and Axl made peace with Adler too, only to have it blow up in his face, typical Adler style.

You said all sides were amicable many times over the years and that's not true. Especially for Slash and Axl.
Slash said he never talked to Axl since that day he quit GN'R, so I don't know how that can be considered an amicable situation.

Axl playing with Izzy doesn't mean he wanted him back in the band. He said he couldn't rely on Izzy for tours so he was invited to play a couple shows but that was it.

Axl never wanted to reunite with Adler for anything. Made peace but broke up again. I assume Adler was able to play the shows in 2016 because Duff and Slash convinced Axl, somehow, but it didn't last long.

52 minutes ago, Tonto said:

Fernando is the manager of Guns N Roses, not Axl personal trainer, what does his size have to do with anything, it clearly doesn't negatively impact his singing voice, look at 2010, Axl was bigger than in 2014.

Fernando is FAMILY to Axl. Before a manager, he was the son of whom Axl considers his "mother". So as a family member, you are supposed to take care of the ones you love and if you love your (uncle, dad, cousin, brother or whatever Fernando considers Axl to be) you care for their health and their well being.

It is not true that Axl was bigger in 2010 than 2014. Or you have vision problems. Also hearing problems. 2010 was one of the best years for Axl, singing wise. While by 2014, Mickey had full reign inside that throat.

This is 2010 Axl non-fat and great voice:

This 2014 super fat Axl, Mickey Mouse possesion:

 

52 minutes ago, Tonto said:

What you want is a manager who get’s things done for you, right? If Fernando was getting everything you wanted done you would think he is great. That’s not his job, he doesn’t work for you. You can not like him if you don’t want to, fine, but to insinuate that he’s not qualified for the job because he doesn’t manage other acts or because he learnt on the job is very strange and shows a clear bias. If you think the manager of Guns N Roses was not involved and was not instrumental in the negotiations of this reunion, then you truly have no idea what you’re talking about.

Things done for me??

Who am I? Madonna?

If Fernando (or TB) had achieved anything that would have put this band back at the top of mountain, many years ago, when it should have happened, then OF COURSE I'd be praising him and thinking he is a great manager. Why would I say the contrary?

Not sure what is the bias you're talking about because there would be a bias if I was rooting for someone else, but I am not. Are you so ridiculous to think that I have some personal interest in this whole management thing?

His unexperience is really beside the point if for some reason the guy and his team would have done something to be proud of, as fans, but he hasn't and I listed all the failures before, so nope.... that's not solely the reason why I think these people are not good managers.

Of course I believe TB were involved and "instrumental" (tools) in the negotiations. Axl said it himself... "I told Fernando, get Slash number and call him"... so Fernando got the number and pressed the buttons . Now if you think that calling a number equals being the pivotal element that brought these guys together, then you truly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by killuridols

[SoulMonster]

5 hours ago, killuridols said:

Under the extraordinary management of TB the results are:

- 17 years of wait to release one album of new music

But Team Brazil hasn't been managing for 17 years. They have only been managing the band for a few years now. Not that I want to come across as a fan of Team Brazil, but during their time they have managed to pull off good touring, Axl has stopped with the silly rants and late starts, and the re-entry of Duff and Slash was successfull negotiated with a fantastically successful tour as the result. I mean, it is not as bad as you make it out to me.

My biggest problem with Team Brazil, to the extent that I believe they are at fault for it, is disatrous interaction with their fanbase. Better communication would go a long way.

But as always it is hard to say what is Axl's fault and what is TB's fault (and also who of them should be praised for the good things). I still believe that TB mostly do what Axl wants them to do, and not vice versa (as many here seem to think), and that TB, as everyone working with Axl, has had to deal with a hugely temperamental person who are likely to change opinions from day to day and frequently sabotages for himself and those around him. It is easy to bash TB, but it is not like any of Axl's other previous managers have been very successful, either. They have all had to work with Axl.

 

[Derick]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But Team Brazil hasn't been managing for 17 years. They have only been managing the band for a few years now. Not that I want to come across as a fan of Team Brazil, but during their time they have managed to pull off good touring, Axl has stopped with the silly rants and late starts, and the re-entry of Duff and Slash was successfull negotiated with a fantastically successful tour as the result. I mean, it is not as bad as you make it out to me.

My biggest problem with Team Brazil, to the extent that I believe they are at fault for it, is disatrous interaction with their fanbase. Better communication would go a long way.

But as always it is hard to say what is Axl's fault and what is TB's fault (and also who of them should be praised for the good things). I still believe that TB mostly do what Axl wants them to do, and not vice versa (as many here seem to think), and that TB, as everyone working with Axl, has had to deal with a hugely temperamental person who are likely to change opinions from day to day and frequently sabotages for himself and those around him. It is easy to bash TB, but it is not like any of Axl's other previous managers have been very successful, either. They have all had to work with Axl.

 

Pretty much this!! TB started in late 2011...Before that the manager was Doc McGhee(2010/2011) and before him was that magnata-super-manager Irving Azoff..

 

Until 2011 all the Lebeis family are just Axl's personal assistants..I don't know, comparing those managements with TB management..I stay with the Lebeis one.

[Italian girl]

TB

[Ralphelmo]

Music-wise Slash. I'm pretty sure the new arrangements for Better, ChD, Layla, WYWH or I Feel Good were just his ideas.

[DieselDaisy]

Team Brazil probably have a bigger say than Rose himself. Fernando has buggered the 'band' up the arsehole

[RussTCB]

7 hours ago, xBrownstonex said:

Isnt there some crazy sex fantasy you have to write about in the psycho, i mean womens discussion?

I had to clean up the thread some due to you derailing it with this. There's no need to derail this thread by insulting other members or sections of the board. 

[Padme]

23 hours ago, ChristmasFnatic said:

Aside from Axl of course. Say Slash suggest something which is the opposite of what TB wants, who got more pull? Will Axl automatically side with TB?

Not so long ago Fernando posted on his IG a kind of thank you to Slash. Fernando said something like "your calmness taught me more than you know" Now we don't know what was that all about. Fernando didn't give us a context. It came out of nowhere. But it sounds like there is respect. And it seems like Fernando is willing to listen to Slash.