The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[SoulMonster]

1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

Straw man argument.

Anyway, you're openly atheist so you don't believe anything you are writing about.  So moot points all around.

I don't need to believe in gods to be able to fix a broken theology. A theology that is internally inconsistent. A theology that for centuries have struggled with theological flaws. You should thank me, really. Now you can relax knowing that any doubts you may have from theology that doesn't make sense, are gone.

By accepting that Satan is part of God's plan (which he must necessarily be if we accept God's awesomeness), then it becomes clear that God hasn't changed from OT to NT. He is still a god to be feared. He is still a god that punishes. The only difference now is that parts of his being, the part that encourages people to join him through love and the part that threatens us with damnation if we stray from the right path, have been personalized in the entities of Jesus and Satan. But again, they are just aspects of Him, taken individual forms. They are not outside of God, they are not their own deities. To think otherwise is to sin.

And we STILL have to follow his rules, we will still be punished if we break them, we can still sit by His side in Heaven if we abide by the pact. God hasn't changed. What He demands of us is the same. Naturally. To think otherwise, that God would change as if he can't make up his mind, is blasphemous.

What has changed is us. We have failed to understand that Satan is an aspect of God. We have created a god in our image instead God for what He is. And by doing so we have rejected a part of God Himself. We have diminished the powers of God by accepting that Satan can rival him. Again, this is blasphemy. By rejecting aspects of God, we are sinning. 

We should still follow the rules in the Bible, and not be tempted by wicked thoughts. and God will still punish us if we fail, or reward us Eternally is we succeed. So keep staying away from them menstruating women, don't be jealous of your neighbors ass, kill homosexuals on sight, and turn the other cheek. It's pretty easy. Because otherwise you will be punished, and only God does the punishing. 

Internally consistent theology. The Problem of Evil has vanished. So has the Problem of Satan. As well as the illusion that God has changed.

You can thank me later.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pope Francis On Vatican Abuse Scandal: ‘Just Tell Me Whose Feet To Wash’

 

VATICAN CITY—In response to criticism of his handling of the Catholic Church’s ongoing child sex abuse scandal, Pope Francis instructed reporters Thursday to just tell him whose feet he needs to wash. “Look, just let me know whose feet I need to wash so we can fix this,” said His Holiness, gesturing toward a bucket and towel while assuring everyone he would cleanse as many sins as it takes to make the revelations about parishes protecting pedophile priests go away. “I’ll wash the kids’ feet, the abusers’ feet, the prosecutors’ feet, whoever; just give me some names so we can get this over with. I have soap and everything and I’m willing to travel wherever, so let’s get this rolling so I can scrub-a-dub-dub.” At press time, Pope Francis began wandering around washing the feet of everyone he came in contact with just to be safe.

Source: https://www.theonion.com/pope-francis-on-vatican-abuse-scandal-just-tell-me-wh-1829034469

Edited November 15, 2018 by SoulMonster

[Iron MikeyJ]

12 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I wasn't disagreeing, I just making light of it, thats my function on this forum   I had no idea so much thought had gone into the rites and rituals of catholicism.  How can we get Jesus to listen?  I know, we'll tell on him to his Mum

Well, for starters, Jesus is HER Lord as well. So it's not like you can go and "tell on him." Besides, he wouldn't do anything that would need "telling" lol. It's just that THEY have an extremely unique relationship. She is the ONLY human ever to have God inside her (dont make it dirty Len 🤐). It's just inconceivable to us what that must have been like. Heck (Us Christians) talk about the power of the Holy Spirit, but SHE has such insight into that, it's just SO far beyond the rest of us. Plus as I said in a previous post, her ENTIRE existance was pleasing to God, all of her thoughts and actions, all the time. 

So basically what I'm saying is her insight into God is second to none really (including the angels). But she was ALSO a human being, not God. So she has very real sympathy for the human race, and as such she WANTS to help us get to her Son. She is kinda like a Catholic (and Orthadox) secret weapon. Protestants just dont understand this, tbh. If you want to have a very real and personal relationship with Jesus, ask his mother, she will help you. Yes you can go straight to the source or you'd like, nothing wrong with that in the slightest. But his Mother wants to help us as well. Which EVERYTHING she does, is by the will of God. She will never lead people astray. Quite the opposite really, she will help you smooth out sins in order to be better suited to be in the presence of her Son. 

As for your thoughts about Catholic rituals, you have NO IDEA my friend. EVERYTHING we do has a very real purpose (not just stuff we made up for a pony show). The sad part is most Catholics are completely unaware of this fact. So when asked about it, they just plain dont know, or they just will say "Its just what we do." 

To answer real quickly (too late, lol), ALL of our "traditions" or rituals are biblically based (NT) or are direct continuation of Jewish teachings. If Jesus didnt change an OT teaching, we STILL follow it. Plus the things he did change or added to. Take praying for the dead for example, most Protestants think it's just something Catholics made up. Not so. It's a Jewish teaching, they still pray for the dead. Catholicism is the CONTINUATION of Judaism.

[Iron MikeyJ]

@SoulMonster,

I haven't read your entire post yet, but you ARE correct, it IS the same God from the OT to NT. Satan existed in OT times though. He has always been right there (at least as far as humanity is concerned).

[SoulMonster]

Just now, Iron MikeyJ said:

@SoulMonster,

I haven't read your entire post yet, but you ARE correct

Thanks. It is so refreshing to discuss with a thinking christian.

[Ace Nova]

55 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't need to believe in gods to be able to fix a broken theology. A theology that is internally inconsistent. A theology that for centuries have struggled with theological flaws. You should thank me, really. Now you can relax knowing that any doubts you may have from theology that doesn't make sense, are gone.

By accepting that Satan is part of God's plan (which he must necessarily be if we accept God's awesomeness), then it becomes clear that God hasn't changed from OT to NT. He is still a god to be feared. He is still a god that punishes. The only difference now is that parts of his being, the part that encourages people to join him through love and the part that threatens us with damnation if we stray from the right path, have been personalized in the entities of Jesus and Satan. But again, they are just aspects of Him, taken individual forms. They are not outside of God, they are not their own deities. To think otherwise is to sin.

And we STILL have to follow his rules, we will still be punished if we break them, we can still sit by His side in Heaven if we abide by the pact. God hasn't changed. What He demands of us is the same. Naturally. To think otherwise, that God would change as if he can't make up his mind, is blasphemous.

What has changed is us. We have failed to understand that Satan is an aspect of God. We have created a god in our image instead God for what He is. And by doing so we have rejected a part of God Himself. We have diminished the powers of God by accepting that Satan can rival him. Again, this is blasphemy. By rejecting aspects of God, we are sinning. 

We should still follow the rules in the Bible, and not be tempted by wicked thoughts. and God will still punish us if we fail, or reward us Eternally is we succeed. So keep staying away from them menstruating women, don't be jealous of your neighbors ass, kill homosexuals on sight, and turn the other cheek. It's pretty easy. Because otherwise you will be punished, and only God does the punishing. 

Internally consistent theology. The Problem of Evil has vanished. So has the Problem of Satan. As well as the illusion that God has changed.

You can thank me later.

 

 

Stopped reading at "...to be able to fix a broken theology".

I won't engage in this discussion with someone completely ignorant on the subject.

 

Carry on.

 

[Len Cnut]

42 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Thanks. It is so refreshing to discuss with a thinking christian.

Shit stirring cunt  

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

6 hours ago, soon said:

Well, its difficult for me to conceive of a future with robot occupied autonomous Nation. Perhaps very large factories where the robots are unionized and practice autonomy, but like, its just because they are ornery or something.

O'Neil makes strong cases in her book (she, a mathematician, worked on wall street using algorithms) that human shortcomings are programmed in both intentionally and by omission. And that whereas bigotry is likely to be noted and possibly addressed as wrong when carried out by a human, so far the tendency is to defer to the infinite wisdom of the algorithms and accept any bigotry that it perpetuates as being "fact based."

I think the eventual arrival of autonomous AI human-relating robots will only bring new "ism" to the fore. Like speciesism and sentientism. Questions about if its an affair if its with a robot.... is the battery powered dildo already making people cyborgs?

Sex with artificially intelligent human robot would not be sinful then.  And would they stay sexually charged using this: http://www.kxxv.com/story/39226772/strange-looking-tower-a-sign-of-texas-high-tech-future

[soon]

5 hours ago, HOOSIER GUNZ said:

Sex with artificially intelligent human robot would not be sinful then.  And would they stay sexually charged using this: http://www.kxxv.com/story/39226772/strange-looking-tower-a-sign-of-texas-high-tech-future

The words of Frank Zappa come to mind "I can take about an hour on the tower of power"

"sexually charged" lol, well done! When I got the hots for L3 in Solo: A Star Wars story it sure felt sinful, so I'm not sure that I can agree with you there!

What incredible technology. Really cool to see one after having watched some videos on Teslas' work! On the other hand this means that we cant 'unplug' unruly AI. If they protect the towers, we loose our autonomy.

Edited November 16, 2018 by soon

[Iron MikeyJ]

After reading the entire post... I got quoted out of context.

[SoulMonster]

54 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Stopped reading at "...to be able to fix a broken theology".

Have you never had any religious doubts? Never prayed for reassurance? Never struggled to reconcile issues with the theology? Of course you have. Well, you don't have. Don't let human attempts at divine anthropomorphism distort God and His words. Thinking that Satan exists outside of God's plan is sinful marginalization of God's powers. And that is a sin. You need to Make God Great Again. 

[Ace Nova]

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Have you never had any religious doubts? Never prayed for reassurance? Never struggled to reconcile issues with the theology? Of course you have. Well, you don't have. Don't let human attempts at divine anthropomorphism distort God and His words. Thinking that Satan exists outside of God's plan is sinful marginalization of God's powers. And that is a sin. You need to Make God Great Again. 

You just keep on attempting Straw Man arguments with me.  I'll continue to watch in amusement.

[Iron MikeyJ]

13 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Have you never had any religious doubts? Never prayed for reassurance? Never struggled to reconcile issues with the theology? Of course you have. Well, you don't have. Don't let human attempts at divine anthropomorphism distort God and His words. Thinking that Satan exists outside of God's plan is sinful marginalization of God's powers. And that is a sin. You need to Make God Great Again. 

As I've said before, if you want to say "Satan is part of Gods plan." I'm not going to argue that point. I'm not saying I agree with it either, but if that's how you want to view things??? I suppose you are entitled to that idea. 

Make God Great Again huh??? I see what you did there... 

On a side note, even if you are just "messing" with me, at least we are communicating respectfully. Even if I sense a bit of sarcasm in your words at times. I still take that as a victory. It's much more beneficial to discuss things cordially than some of our past discussions. At the end of the day you might still think I'm a "quack" or "looney" or what have you, but maybe you have at least found some respect me? I view that as progress.

[Iron MikeyJ]

1 hour ago, HOOSIER GUNZ said:

Sex with artificially intelligent human robot would not be sinful then.  And would they stay sexually charged using this: http://www.kxxv.com/story/39226772/strange-looking-tower-a-sign-of-texas-high-tech-future

No. ANYTIME a man spills his "seed" outside of a marriage is sinful. 

[SoulMonster]

14 minutes ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

As I've said before, if you want to say "Satan is part of Gods plan." I'm not going to argue that point. I'm not saying I agree with it either, but if that's how you want to view things??? I suppose you are entitled to that idea. 

Make God Great Again huh??? I see what you did there... 

On a side note, even if you are just "messing" with me, at least we are communicating respectfully. Even if I sense a bit of sarcasm in your words at times. I still take that as a victory. It's much more beneficial to discuss things cordially than some of our past discussions. At the end of the day you might still think I'm a "quack" or "looney" or what have you, but maybe you have at least found some respect me? I view that as progress.

The fact that you give of your time and make a real effort to engage in an honest discussion, basically putting yourself out there with the obvious intent of wanting to make other people understand, should always be met with respect and cordiality in return. 

[SoulMonster]

19 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

You just keep on attempting Straw Man arguments with me.  I'll continue to watch in amusement.

I don't know what that straw man argument would be. 

Anyway, I am sure you yourself have struggled with your relationship with God. As far as I know, if there is anything that Christians have in common it is doubt. This nagging feeling that reality doesn't perfectly align with theology. But if you could just open your eyes and see that everything I write, broadly speaking, makes theological sense, and nothing, besides minor details, is in disagreement with Scripture, then you might actually consider watching it with more than just amusement. Just challenge yourself a little. Surely your faith deserves the opportunity, or are you saying that you never battle with it?

[soon]

I've never felt doubt. What a silly assertion.

[Ace Nova]

1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't know what that straw man argument would be. 

Anyway, I am sure you yourself have struggled with your relationship with God. As far as I know, if there is anything that Christians have in common it is doubt. This nagging feeling that reality doesn't perfectly align with theology. But if you could just open your eyes and see that everything I write, broadly speaking, makes theological sense, and nothing, besides minor details, is in disagreement with Scripture, then you might actually consider watching it with more than just amusement. Just challenge yourself a little. Surely your faith deserves the opportunity, or are you saying that you never battle with it?

What makes me wonder is why is it so important to you?  Every time religion/spirituality is brought up, you are one of the first to respond.  And typically, you have very long questions/statements, etc. 

So something about it must be eating you up inside?  Could it be that this world around you doesn't match-up with your atheistic belief system?  Maybe deep down inside you want to believe there is something more to it all but you refuse to follow your inner subconsciousness without logical/scientific proof?

[soon]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

One must have doubts to sustain a genuine faith. Blind obedience is neither faith nor loyalty but a prideful trick of the devil!

Your premise is incorrect.

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

2 hours ago, soon said:

The words of Frank Zappa come to mind "I can take about an hour on the tour of power"

"sexually charged" lol, well done! When I got the hots for L3 in Solo: A Star Wars story it sure felt sinful, so I'm not sure that I can agree with you there!

What incredible technology. Really cool to see one after having watched some videos on Teslas' work! On the other hand this means that we cant 'unplug' unruly AI. If they protect the towers, we loose our autonomy.

it is sort of scary to think about.  I forget where or who said but something to the effect that technology would move at such a rapid pace at some point that most of us would not recognize how much it had taken over before it was to late to do anything about it...

 

i remember hearing that some of the tesla technology has been drip fed to us because the powers at be could not put a meter on it.

and with regard to religion, the tesla coil is correlated to some of the depictions of osiris who was sought for spiritual answers.

[OmarBradley]

On 11/14/2018 at 2:13 PM, OmarBradley said:

Either this deity is all knowing, or they aren't. It can't be both. When reading your long post, I had the exact same thought as SM. 

God is all knowing you say. He knows Outcomes A, B, and C are possible, but he doesn't know which will occur? That means he's not all knowing. 

Societal structure gives humanity morality. I'd like to believe there is a tiny bit of innate morality too, but that's difficult to prove. But the bible is just part of said structure. If your only and/or chief source of morality is the Bible, that is incredibly problematic. Moral and immoral shouldn't need religious support in their definitions.

I am a nonbeliever. I've never read the Bible in full and I've never learned the deep mechanics of any religion. Where is my sense of morality coming from?

And aren't there bible passages that condone slavery and stoning people? How can the text be trusted as an definitive source of morality?

 

 

9 hours ago, Iron MikeyJ said:

Are there any other topics that anyone might want my take on?

I wasn't satisfied with your response to the above post. I deleted the tongue in cheek lines and the questions you said you wanted to avoid, so it's all serious now. Now I have more questions though.

Why is God doing all of this for us? Does he ever elaborate on why he created humanity, the universe, etc.? And if he's all knowing, why doesn't he go ahead and stop things like 9/11 or Nazi gas chambers? Why didn't he smite Hitler in 1933? I Googled this out of curiosity, and checked out the top two results. The top one was a cop-out answer and the second one was a frankly moronic, disgusting reply. At least your ideology is inclusively-thinking, even toward nonbelievers/other religions Mikey, I thank you for that.

And here's an interesting passage from that first link:

Quote

The Bible clearly indicates that at present the Devil, not God, rules the world. (Luke 4:1, 2, 6; John 12:31)

Is this true? If so, that's convenient explanation for suffering, but this is the first I'm hearing Satan has defeated God.

[soon]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Your faith is blind! And when you pass on your blood shall turn into nettles and eyes will be pecked out by Moloch the Owl! Satan be gone! 

Super cringey.

[soon]

5 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Joking aside you're the most unchristian Christian I've ever come across. Liars don't get into heaven. 

What on Earth are you talking about?

And I was being serious. You're super cringey in this thread.

Edited November 15, 2018 by soon

[soon]

Just now, Oldest Goat said:

Don't speak to me again.

So you call me a liar. I call Bullshit. And your response is "Don't speak to me again"

[Iron MikeyJ]

40 minutes ago, OmarBradley said:

 

I wasn't satisfied with your response to the above post. I deleted the tongue in cheek lines and the questions you said you wanted to avoid, so it's all serious now. Now I have more questions though.

Why is God doing all of this for us? Does he ever elaborate on why he created humanity, the universe, etc.? And if he's all knowing, why doesn't he go ahead and stop things like 9/11 or Nazi gas chambers? Why didn't he smite Hitler in 1933? I Googled this out of curiosity, and checked out the top two results. The top one was a cop-out answer and the second one was a frankly moronic, disgusting reply. At least your ideology is inclusively-thinking, even toward nonbelievers/other religions Mikey, I thank you for that.

And here's an interesting passage from that first link:

Is this true? If so, that's convenient explanation for suffering, but this is the first I'm hearing Satan has defeated God.

I'm sorry if I have made you feel that I haven't properly addressed your question. I was in the midst of two or three conversations at that particular moment (although not an excuse), I was kinda "full" at that moment. As such I DID just kinda give you a token response for that I apologize. Unfortunately, the wife and I have a "Thirsty Thursday" every week, and I'm already a few in, lol. So I dont feel I'm in the right frame of mind at this moment to tackle that question. I'm not avoiding the question, so I promise you to tackle it tomorrow morning (during my coffee time, that's when my thoughts are clearest). I just REALLY dont want to say anything incorrect, and alcohol does cloud that ability. (Its not a sin fyi to have a few drinks on occasion, daily drinking is another story though).

As for your kind words, well thank you. I cant take credit for that though, it's something I have been working on through prayer and meditation. Just trying to improve myself, work out my flaws, etc. As for being "inclusive" Catholic literally means universal. So by definition we are supposed to be inclusive. We are also to treat every human as one of God's creations. You might hear hate the sin, love the sinner. But I would say catch phrases like that go in one ear out the other. Its important to realize that the BIGGEST victim of a sin is the sinner themself. They dont need to be beat up about it as well. You provide people with the truth (in as loving way as possible), then let them do with the information what they will. But a loving (charitable) approach bears more fruit than righteous condemnation imo.

[HOOSIER GUNZ]

 ...the spirit and the power and the glory of heaven is within us all of us, so it's been said or something like that...or otherwise its the belief that the power of positive thinking is available to most everyone if we choose to believe in that...is it hard to be a good person or easier to be not so good,  like taking advantage of others because they are gullible or naive to get what another wants by being selfish or greedy for example...

 

fascinating discussion here, I can barely wrap my head around it all...however when or if a deity or alien life form ever presents itself performing some wild shit like literally appearing and disappearing right befor our eyes that's when shit is gonna get real...till then I like watching and thinking about phantastical shit like ancient aliens and ancient giants, or atlantis...it's fun and to some a waist of time to, i get it. To each their own.  ....what if god was one of us...just trying to find his way home...like e.t.