IZZY STRADLIN (and MATT SORUM) show up at movie festival in Palm Springs

[DieselDaisy]

The partnership is overrated here. If say five individuals desire collaborating on any given tour, that is perfectly possible irrespective of whether or not 3/5 of those members also have a prior legal agreement. Separate contracts are merely signed. The partnership is just used by people here to beat Stradlin and Adler over the head with it and justify this faux reunion, as if being a member of it is a base requirement to forming a 'proper' reunion tour. Heck, as a consequence of the 'partnership', Rose, Slash and McKagan sued and squabbled for the best part of fifteen years, and suddenly now it is cited as an example of corporate solidarity? Absolute hypocritical bollocks. 

Do you think Frehley and Criss regained their controlling interests in Kiss in 1996? Garbage. They ironed out a tour irrespective.

[DieselDaisy]

Here is a simplified way you could stipulate a tour using the partnership and the non-partners, and ''split the loot equally'' from box office receipts. I'm just using the original five for clarity's sake, i.e. no need for arguments about Adler receiving such a hefty sum etc etc.

Partnership: 60%

Stradlin: 20%

Adler: 20%

Simple really? NB At no point do Izzy and Adler reenter the partnership (as many insinuate as being essential of their inclusion on this tour). The partnership is still a separate legal entity (from Izzy and Steven).

The Partnership could then split their percentage however they desire (e.g. Rose taking a greater percentage than Slash and Duff but paying the overheads, hirelings etc).

Alternatively - and this is a better arrangement altogether - you could just bypass the partnership altogether and split it 20% five-ways - or with Rose taking more and paying the overheads.

The idea of this partnership, which anyhow seemed to basically cover song licensing and (old band) t-shirts during the nugnr era, being somehow an unmovable bloc against creating an equally split tour is nonsensical. You can contractually create any performance contract you desire so long as it does not contravene prior commitments. 

[default_]

I'm I the only one who dont believe Izzy and Steven are out because of money? lol

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

The partnership is overrated here. If say five individuals desire collaborating on any given tour, that is perfectly possible irrespective of whether or not 3/5 of those members also have a prior legal agreement. Separate contracts are merely signed. The partnership is just used by people here to beat Stradlin and Adler over the head with it and justify this faux reunion, as if being a member of it is a base requirement to forming a 'proper' reunion tour. Heck, as a consequence of the 'partnership', Rose, Slash and McKagan sued and squabbled for the best part of fifteen years, and suddenly now it is cited as an example of corporate solidarity? Absolute hypocritical bollocks. 

Do you think Frehley and Criss regained their controlling interests in Kiss in 1996? Garbage. They ironed out a tour irrespective.

thanks

[PatrickS77]

15 minutes ago, default_ said:

I'm I the only one who dont believe Izzy and Steven are out because of money? lol

Nah. You're not. They are out beccause Axl, Slash and Duff, for some reason, don't want them. If they wanted them, they would and could make it work.

[double talkin jive mfkr]

53 minutes ago, PatrickS77 said:

Nah. You're not. They are out beccause Axl, Slash and Duff, for some reason, don't want them. If they wanted them, they would and could make it work.

True but its relative to money - people with more money don't like hanging out with people with less money - they'd rather be around yes people that are happy with their subliminal low ball wages - pure greed at its lowest form

Edited January 11, 2018 by double talkin jive mfkr

[Modano09]

7 hours ago, Padme said:

The problem is that 3 guys didn't take care of the house. Two of them also left. Then one guy rebuilt the house with very low quality construction workers. So the house fell apart. Trying another rebuilding he called the 3 guys who built the original beautiful house. But 2 of them will be making more money? So the 3rd guy in question is supossed to work not only for less money than the main architect is making. But also for less money than the other 2 co-workers? After all this 3rd guy is question was also a main force behind the original construction of the house. He wasn't a mere microwave in the original house

Sticking with the analogy, two of them moved out and let the third guy keep living there but their names were still on the deed. He can live there, remodel, have house guests, treat it like his own house, but he can't make any major alterations or sell the house because the other two guys still own their share of it.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Modano09

[Derick]

6 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Again. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHETHER KEEPING HIS SHARES WAS EVEN AN OPTION. Sometimes after Izzy left that partnership agreement got renewed. After that apparently it was possible. We do not know whether a member could leave and keep his shares before that. And really, with giving up his shares and giving the remaining members full control and full profits, he did them a favour. It's pathetic that some "fans" hold that against him now. After Slash and Duff left, Axl formed a new GNR entity for him to work witout outside interference.

I agree! WE DON´T KNOW exactly how and what happened. We are guessing, just as those who say that Duff and Slash fucked him over.

I particularly don´t think it has to do with money, at least not the main reason. I continue with the idea that Izzy didn´t want to be part of this tour and uses this money talk as a pretext, as a excuse to not be there. 

Why do I think that? Because I can´t see Izzy Stradlin being part of a band, any band!!! The guy releases a ton of songs, right? So I asked to one of his fans when and where was the last Izzy´s GIG that he attended and until now I got no answer.The guy just does not show up, not even to play his own songs...He is a music maker but,using his solo career as reference, doesn´t seem to be a band guy, at all.

[Sunset Boulevard]

2 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Here is a simplified way you could stipulate a tour using the partnership and the non-partners, and ''split the loot equally'' from box office receipts. I'm just using the original five for clarity's sake, i.e. no need for arguments about Adler receiving such a hefty sum etc etc.

Partnership: 60%

Stradlin: 20%

Adler: 20%

Simple really? NB At no point do Izzy and Adler reenter the partnership (as many insinuate as being essential of their inclusion on this tour). The partnership is still a separate legal entity (from Izzy and Steven).

The Partnership could then split their percentage however they desire (e.g. Rose taking a greater percentage than Slash and Duff but paying the overheads, hirelings etc).

Alternatively - and this is a better arrangement altogether - you could just bypass the partnership altogether and split it 20% five-ways - or with Rose taking more and paying the overheads.

The idea of this partnership, which anyhow seemed to basically cover song licensing and (old band) t-shirts during the nugnr era, being somehow an unmovable bloc against creating an equally split tour is nonsensical. You can contractually create any performance contract you desire so long as it does not contravene prior commitments. 

LOL!

Currently, Richard Fortus is most certainely much more paid than Adler+Izzy would ever be combined.

You people are desilutional : we ain't in 1987 anymore. There are other people in Guns N' Roses and Richard Fortus has been in the band for 16 years. 

He is the guitar player with Slash of the 4th biggest tour in music history. So trust me, Richard is paid millions for that.

This succes is also his success. And he earns millions dollars for that.

 

Don't be surprised if he is part of the partnership in a forthcoming futur...

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Sunset Boulevard

[PatrickS77]

50 minutes ago, Derick said:

I agree! WE DON´T KNOW exactly how and what happened. We are guessing, just as those who say that Duff and Slash fucked him over.

I particularly don´t think it has to do with money, at least not the main reason. I continue with the idea that Izzy didn´t want to be part of this tour and uses this money talk as a pretext, as a excuse to not be there. 

Geez. He left a tour before. And he joined a tour in 2006. If he doesn't want to be part of this, why would he lie and tell everyone that they wouldn't give him enough money?? Wouldn't he have to fear that they would speak out and reveal his lie and also destroy any chance of him at least making guest appearances? It would be the easiest for him to simply say, that he doesn't want to commit to a 2 year tour and be done with it. Your scenario doesn't make sense at all. Especially since, up to that point, he was getting along with Duff for sure and most likely with Slash and Axl too.

Edited January 11, 2018 by PatrickS77

[Modano09]

43 minutes ago, Derick said:

I agree! WE DON´T KNOW exactly how and what happened. We are guessing, just as those who say that Duff and Slash fucked him over.

I particularly don´t think it has to do with money, at least not the main reason. I continue with the idea that Izzy didn´t want to be part of this tour and uses this money talk as a pretext, as a excuse to not be there. 

Why do I think that? Because I can´t see Izzy Stradlin being part of a band, any band!!! The guy releases a ton of songs, right? So I asked to one of his fans when and where was the last Izzy´s GIG that he attended and until now I got no answer.The guy just does not show up, not even to play his own songs...He is a music maker but,using his solo career as reference, doesn´t seem to be a band guy, at all.

I can't find any record of Izzy doing anything resembling a tour since 1993. It was probably a combination of things. The guy doesn't like long-term commitments, being on the road or being in the spotlight and the money wasn't good enough to get him to commit to doing it for 2 years.

[PatrickS77]

21 minutes ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

This succes is also his success. Neither Izzy, nor Adler.

Nah. This success is not his success. I wonder, who's delusional here. This success is Axl and Slash's success (and to a lesser extent the ones who built GNR ages ago) . Fortus has to count his lucky stars that he's allowed to be part of this. Anyone could have his place and it wouldn't change a thing.

Edited January 11, 2018 by PatrickS77

[Zoot]

17 minutes ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

LOL!

Currently, Richard Fortus is most certainely much more paid than Adler+Izzy would ever be combined.

You people are desilutional : we ain't in 1987 anymore. There are other people in Guns N' Roses and Richard Fortus has been in the band for 16 years. 

He is the guitar player with Slash of the 4th biggest tour in music history. So trust me, Richard is paid millions for that.

This succes is also his success. And he earns millions dollars for that.

 

Don't be surprised if he is part of the partnership in a forthcoming futur...

 

If you think Fortus had anything to do with the success of this tour you are living in a fantasy world.

[default_]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

Nah. You're not. They are out beccause Axl, Slash and Duff, for some reason, don't want them. If they wanted them, they would and could make it work.

My guess is that Axl had so strong bonds with Fortus/Frank that Duff and Slash, seeing as they are professional musicians, agreed to stick with them. Some people like to undermine their careers but Fortus was in some major alternative rock bands like The Eyes and Psychedelic Furs (this one with Frank). Those bands, while not in the same genre or level of popularity as GNR, were important bands to that subculture, Psychedelic Furs were even compared to the likes of Echo and The Bunnymen. Oh, and dont forget Slash tried to get Fortus to his band.

So, maybe, they'all agreed that this would be a new incarnation of the band that could do fine. We like to assume that they dont have chemistry together, but is that what they think? how could we know? Maybe they feel great playing with them and dont feel like the AFD5 is needed. They dont own anything to Izzy and Steven after all.

Id love to get the AFD5 back, but the assumption you guys made are so unfair and impartial.

Edited January 11, 2018 by default_

[Zoot]

7 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I can't find any record of Izzy doing anything resembling a tour since 1993. It was probably a combination of things. The guy doesn't like long-term commitments, being on the road or being in the spotlight and the money wasn't good enough to get him to commit to doing it for 2 years.

You must not have looked very hard. Izzy did a small japan tour in 2000 as well as 23 shows with GNR in 2006 & 6 shows with GNR in 2012.

[PatrickS77]

4 minutes ago, default_ said:

My guess is that Axl had so strong bonds with Fortus/Frank that Duff and Slash, seeing as they are professional musicians, agreed to stick with them. Some people like to undermine their careers but Fortus was in some major alternative rock bands like The Eyes and Psychedelic Furs (this one with Frank). Those bands, while not in the same genre or level of popularity as GNR, were important bands to that subculture, Psychedelic Furs were even compared to the likes of Echo and The Bunnymen. Oh, and dont forget Slash tried to get Fortus to his band.

So, maybe, they'all agreed that this would be a new incarnation of the band that could do fine. We like to assume that they dont have chemistry together, but is that what they think? how should we know? Maybe they feel great playing with them and dont feel like the AFD5 is needed. They dont own anything to Izzy and Steven after all.

Id love to get the AFD5 back, but the assumption you guys made are so unfair and impartial.

So that brings us back to that they (Axl) didn't want him and probably made an offer in that direction, which either would have reduced Izzy to some guest spots or give him substantially less money than the others, hoping that he wouldn't accept.

[soon]

21 minutes ago, default_ said:

My guess is that Axl had so strong bonds with Fortus/Frank that Duff and Slash, seeing as they are professional musicians, agreed to stick with them. Some people like to undermine their careers but Fortus was in some major alternative rock bands like The Eyes and Psychedelic Furs (this one with Frank). Those bands, while not in the same genre or level of popularity as GNR, were important bands to that subculture, Psychedelic Furs were even compared to the likes of Echo and The Bunnymen. Oh, and dont forget Slash tried to get Fortus to his band.

I take your point in general, but Fortus was also a hired touring member of the Furs.  He did work with the Fur's Tim and Richard Butler as an equal in Love Spit Love though.  They found much less success.  At that point Fortus and Frank were hired to tour the Furs reunion, iirc.

[Modano09]

33 minutes ago, Zoot said:

You must not have looked very hard. Izzy did a small japan tour in 2000 as well as 23 shows with GNR in 2006 & 6 shows with GNR in 2012.

I just checked a setlist page, I saw a date in Japan in 2000 but didn't know if it was a "tour". Either way, "small Japan tour" in 2000 doesn't mean he's up for "huge world tour" in 2016 - 2018.

[Zoot]

1 minute ago, Modano09 said:

I just checked a setlist page, I saw a date in Japan in 2000 but didn't know if it was a "tour". Either way, "small Japan tour" in 2000 doesn't mean he's up for "huge world tour" in 2016 - 2018.

And what about 2006 & 2012? Are you just going to ignore those dates? C'mon dude...

[jacdaniel]

Axl needed a lead guitarist. He was friends with Duff again who was sort of back in Guns. Duff convinced him to settle things with Slash.  Slash was happy to join. He basically joined the existing band. 

 

Nobody had worked on a serious project with Steven since 1990. It's likely that nobody wanted him full time. 

 

Nobody really trusts Izzy either. He bailed on Guns back when they were getting huge. He bailed on VR when things started getting going. He hasn't toured much since the 90s. 

 

The situation between Axl and Slash was probably very fragile and took time to repair. It seems like they decided to just see how things went and offered guest appearances to Steven, Izzy and possibly Matt, Gilby. 

 

Probably nothing malicious intended.  

[Derick]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

Geez. He left a tour before. And he joined a tour in 2006. If he doesn't want to be part of this, why would he lie and tell everyone that they wouldn't give him enough money?? Wouldn't he have to fear that they would speak out and reveal his lie and also destroy any chance of him at least making guest appearances? It would be the easiest for him to simply say, that he doesn't want to commit to a 2 year tour and be done with it. Your scenario doesn't make sense at all. Especially since, up to that point, he was getting along with Duff for sure and most likely with Slash and Axl too.

I dare you to show where I said he is lying and also dare you to show where he says they did not want to give him enough money.

"Enough" is too vague and he was very specific on that Twitter message: "They didn't want to split the loot equally". I asume that´s true, they don´t want to split the loot equally but I believe even between them they didn´t split the loot equally and I also believe that´s not the main reason why Izzy it´s not there. 

Anyway..I didn´t say he's lying what I say was that he´s using this bullshit as a excuse to not be there. It´s much easier to say this, which in a way is true, than to assume that he don´t want to be there. 

You backed by your guessing clearly put all the blame on the Big 3. I just don´t buy it..Analyzing Izzy's solo career and his moves as a musician I wonder if the Big 3 are this evil that you and others Izzy´s fans are saying. I still waiting for someone to tell me when it was the last show he did to suport his own songs. He has released tons of songs over the last 10 years so tell me something about those tours, about those GIGs that he did...Yeah, nothing!!! So are you telling me that my scenario doesn't make sense at all? C´mom man!

 

[DieselDaisy]

1 hour ago, Sunset Boulevard said:

LOL!

Currently, Richard Fortus is most certainely much more paid than Adler+Izzy would ever be combined.

You people are desilutional : we ain't in 1987 anymore. There are other people in Guns N' Roses and Richard Fortus has been in the band for 16 years. 

He is the guitar player with Slash of the 4th biggest tour in music history. So trust me, Richard is paid millions for that.

This succes is also his success. And he earns millions dollars for that.

 

Don't be surprised if he is part of the partnership in a forthcoming futur...

 

Fortus will lead us from the dark ages, to the promised land. 

He will cure our ills.

He will protect his children, fighting our enemies with fire and brimstone. 

All hail Lord Fortus. HAIL HAIL HAIL.

[WhenYou'reTalkinToYourself]

This whole thread is off-topic.

[Modano09]

1 hour ago, Zoot said:

And what about 2006 & 2012? Are you just going to ignore those dates? C'mon dude...

I didn't think I had to since 23 dates in 2006 + 6 dates in 2012 still doesn't come near the commitment and work of 148 dates in 2016 - 2018. 

But since you mention this, wasn't one of those tours the one where Izzy demanded more money at the last minute?

[PatrickS77]

9 minutes ago, Derick said:

I dare you to show where I said he is lying and also dare you to show where he says they did not want to give him enough money.

"Enough" is too vague and he was very specific on that Twitter message: "They didn't want to split the loot equally". I asume that´s true, they don´t want to split the loot equally but I believe even between them they didn´t split the loot equally and I also believe that´s not the main reason why Izzy it´s not there. 

Anyway..I didn´t say he's lying what I say was that he´s using this bullshit as a excuse to not be there. It´s much easier to say this, which in a way is true, than to assume that he don´t want to be there. 

You backed by your guessing clearly put all the blame on the Big 3. I just don´t buy it..Analyzing Izzy's solo career and his moves as a musician I wonder if the Big 3 are this evil that you and others Izzy´s fans are saying. I still waiting for someone to tell me when it was the last show he did to suport his own songs. He has released tons of songs over the last 10 years so tell me something about those tours, about those GIGs that he did...Yeah, nothing!!! So are you telling me that my scenario doesn't make sense at all? C´mom man!

 

This is getting tiring. I dare you to show me where I said that the 3 (they are not big in this context) are evil!! Yes, Izzy was specific. And the 3 would have been the ones responsible for not splitting the loot equally, giving him a reason to not do it. You're insinuating that that wasn't quite the case and was either made up or enhanced. But whatever. He left the tour in '91. Didn't have a problem then, to let everyone know that he wasn't interested in GNR. So why would he have a problem 25 years later to say that he still is not interested in touring with GNR and use money issues, made up or enhanced, as an excuse instead??? That doesn't make sense. That he would publicly project a made up rift and argument between him and the other guys, thus souring their relations, doesn't make sense.

And whether he did tours on his own, really is only a smokesscreen and irrelevant. With GNR there is first class touring. On his own he's sitting on a tour bus, plays clubs and probably looses money. Maybe he simply doesn't want to do that. What is more important is that the one major tour he did in all those years was with GNR.