Roseanne Barr

[soon]

22 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't know if it was evocative of deep hatred and violence... that's another extreme. Yes, it was a very stupid, ignorant, racist, unfunny joke (if it was intended as a joke). Listen, I despise racism and intolerance, I would never defend anyone for being a racist, but we shouldn't want to live in a world where every politically incorrect joke turns into a witch-hunt. And that is happening more and more these days it seems.

But why down grade "racist" to "politically incorrect," right?  

What I know for certain is that we live in a world where roast battle comedy with no holds barred is incredibly popular. If you havent seen any you might be surprised - theyd make Carlin blush, lol! If Netflix stops paying Chapelle $60 Million to tell jokes about trans-people Id be willing to reevaluate but as it is today, I don't know how to integrate these facts with the notion that these are overly PC times. 

BTW Im listening to a Mennonite man (Eli Sairs) and a Muslim women (Dina Heshem) mock each others dead family members, sexuality, absentee fathers, religions, and physical short comings in a roast battle as I type. Theyre having a blast and no one is harmed. They're hilarious! I think harm is what motivates peoples concerns usually.

 

(Anyways, I like you as a poster here even though we don't know each other that well, so I hope that having this exchange doesnt put any barriers between us.)

 

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, soon said:

But why down grade "racist" to "politically incorrect," right?  

What I know for certain is that we live in a world where roast battle comedy with no holds barred is incredibly popular. If you havent seen any you might be surprised - theyd make Carlin blush, lol! If Netflix stops paying Chapelle $60 Million to tell jokes about trans-people Id be willing to reevaluate but as it is today, I don't know how to integrate these facts with the notion that these are overly PC times. 

BTW Im listening to a Mennonite man (Eli Sairs) and a Muslim women (Dina Heshem) mock each others dead family members, sexuality, absentee fathers, religions, and physical short comings in a roast battle as I type. Theyre having a blast and no one is harmed. They're hilarious! I think harm is what motivates peoples concerns usually.

 

(Anyways, I like you as a poster here even though we don't know each other that well, so I hope that having this exchange doesnt put any barriers between us.)

 

There still is a lot of 'crude' humour, but I don't think that I'm imagining that nowadays people are a lot more sensitive compared to not that long ago, and I think a lot of people share that sentiment. Or maybe it's simply because of social media everything is under a magnifying glass and gets more attention?

There's this football talkshow in my country and the men on that show use a lot of ''locker room'' talk. Sometimes they make sexist and homophobic jokes and everytime they make jokes likes that, it immediately goes viral on social media and people talk about how awful they are, then a week later most people have forgotten about it, and it's still one of the more popular shows on TV. I don't find those jokes necessarily funny, but I'm not going to call those men racists or homophobes, because I know that is not what they are. I'm the furthest thing from a racist, yet I'm sure that I've made a joke once or twice in my life that someone else would consider racist. I'm not saying it's alright or good taste, but to me making a racist joke is not the same as being a racist, and that's the same with this Roseanne situation. Maybe there's more to it with Roseanne, I don't know about that, it's not like I follow her that much.

Why can't Stevie Wonder drive a car? Because he's black. 

That's probably a racist joke, but it still makes me chuckle. Just like I can chuckle at black people making jokes about white people. Big deal.

Edited June 26, 2018 by EvanG

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

Well, I think the some of ABC's decision to shut down Roseanne is because a lot of sponsors were going to not support the show. It's always about money.

Freedom of speech goes out the window when it comes to some humor and gun laws. It's getting crazy.

I remember when comedians would make fun of every nationality and it was funny. A lot of the quirks were true, but still funny. I'm Italian American and I laughed when something was said about how Italians talk with their hands or saying forgetaboutit too much. My Uncle says it all the time. I think some humor isn't for everyone, so turn the channel.

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

5 hours ago, soon said:

But why down grade "racist" to "politically incorrect," right?  

What I know for certain is that we live in a world where roast battle comedy with no holds barred is incredibly popular. If you havent seen any you might be surprised - theyd make Carlin blush, lol! If Netflix stops paying Chapelle $60 Million to tell jokes about trans-people Id be willing to reevaluate but as it is today, I don't know how to integrate these facts with the notion that these are overly PC times. 

BTW Im listening to a Mennonite man (Eli Sairs) and a Muslim women (Dina Heshem) mock each others dead family members, sexuality, absentee fathers, religions, and physical short comings in a roast battle as I type. Theyre having a blast and no one is harmed. They're hilarious! I think harm is what motivates peoples concerns usually.

 

(Anyways, I like you as a poster here even though we don't know each other that well, so I hope that having this exchange doesnt put any barriers between us.)

 

When Howard Stern's first wife had a miscarriage he did a whole segment on his show. He tried to make humor out of a tragic story. He had a lot of explaining to do to his wife, but she realized that's what he does. I guess because Howard is supposed to be acting like a jerk, it's okay.

I spoke to a nurse the other day and she said that those sleeping pills ambien do sometimes make you let your guard down and stupid shit comes out of your mouth. So if Roseanne mixed this pill with another pill and drinking alcohol, I can believe she was on her computer looking at shit and come out with a stupid ass tweet.

I didn't even know who she was talking about until she talked about that woman. Then all the news reporters who are love talking shit about people starting saying how that politician who worked with Obama was a member of the communist party and how her ideas were un-American. It seems everyone has something to hide.

I just think if Roseanne is really sorry, she deserves a second chance.  There are plenty of evil people who deserve justice and never seem to get it.

[soon]

4 hours ago, EvanG said:

There still is a lot of 'crude' humour, but I don't think that I'm imagining that nowadays people are a lot more sensitive compared to not that long ago, and I think a lot of people share that sentiment. Or maybe it's simply because of social media everything is under a magnifying glass and gets more attention?

There's this football talkshow in my country and the men on that show use a lot of ''locker room'' talk. Sometimes they make sexist and homophobic jokes and everytime they make jokes likes that, it immediately goes viral on social media and people talk about how awful they are, then a week later most people have forgotten about it, and it's still one of the more popular shows on TV. I don't find those jokes necessarily funny, but I'm not going to call those men racists or homophobes, because I know that is not what they are. I'm the furthest thing from a racist, yet I'm sure that I've made a joke once or twice in my life that someone else would consider racist. I'm not saying it's alright or good taste, but to me making a racist joke is not the same as being a racist, and that's the same with this Roseanne situation. Maybe there's more to it with Roseanne, I don't know about that, it's not like I follow her that much.

Why can't Stevie Wonder drive a car? Because he's black. 

That's probably a racist joke, but it still makes me chuckle. Just like I can chuckle at black people making jokes about white people. Big deal.

I'm trying to think if the sports show would fly in Canada. We have AM drive time buffoons who say dumb shit, but their popularity seems to be waning. Did you ever see that Sorkin show called Sports Night? Thats the kinda sports coverage I really like. Its why I like the Olympics and local teams - real life, real people and the advancement of community. Sometimes a David Zirin piece will turn up on my screen and i really enjoy him. 

Through talking to people from other Countries online it seems that the whole "PC" overload that is said to be else where exists differently here, its much less if at all.

We have a virtue signalling, air head, PM but even those he virtue signals to shake their head in embarrassment. He recently interrupted a young female feminist who was celebrating mothers as building a 'better future for mankind' to explain that he 'prefers to say people kind.' Everyone groaned across the Nations.

We have Petersons campus brew ha ha's about preferred pronouns. But what people like yourself seem to be reacting to is something that seems very unfamiliar to me. One of our treasured, progressive, public radio personalities, comedians and folk musician who hosts a culture show was challenged by a young women about why he'd dare compare her music to another woman's, why not a man? He just said "youre not gonna do that to me are you? Okay; its because you sound very much like Kate Bush." So I just dont see any regressive or virtue signalling faux progressives really appealing to the masses here. We gifted Norm MacDonald to the world after all.

But none the less Roseanne said some dreadfully racist shit and rightfully so, she lost her show. 

[soon]

40 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

When Howard Stern's first wife had a miscarriage he did a whole segment on his show. He tried to make humor out of a tragic story. He had a lot of explaining to do to his wife, but she realized that's what he does. I guess because Howard is supposed to be acting like a jerk, it's okay.

I spoke to a nurse the other day and she said that those sleeping pills ambien do sometimes make you let your guard down and stupid shit comes out of your mouth. So if Roseanne mixed this pill with another pill and drinking alcohol, I can believe she was on her computer looking at shit and come out with a stupid ass tweet.

I didn't even know who she was talking about until she talked about that woman. Then all the news reporters who are love talking shit about people starting saying how that politician who worked with Obama was a member of the communist party and how her ideas were un-American. It seems everyone has something to hide.

I just think if Roseanne is really sorry, she deserves a second chance.  There are plenty of evil people who deserve justice and never seem to get it.

You know, imo, and I dont think Im alone in this; this show was her second chance. Didnt surprise me one bit when she tweeted that. 

The freedom of speech is American and it applies to speaking about Communism. The freedom of assembly is American and it applies to Communists gathering. It took Christians, Communists and Malcolm X to get civil rights through, never forget. Weekends and 40 hour work week, paid holidays, sick leaves: Communists, Christians and Anarchists made that happen. I hope its true that she is one! Y'all need more of those, not less in this day and age. Of course you got many folks down there saying Obama is a Communist too and thats obviously BS.

I understand that her fans had high hopes and were really let down by her racist remarks. But she sure did say it. I can appreciate how hard it is to reconcile fandom with this sad reality. You can still give her a second chance with what ever she'll do next. Or maybe the world needs to offer her the chance to disappear and sort herself out?

[EvanG]

31 minutes ago, soon said:

I'm trying to think if the sports show would fly in Canada. We have AM drive time buffoons who say dumb shit, but their popularity seems to be waning. Did you ever see that Sorkin show called Sports Night? Thats the kinda sports coverage I really like. Its why I like the Olympics and local teams - real life, real people and the advancement of community. Sometimes a David Zirin piece will turn up on my screen and i really enjoy him. 

Through talking to people from other Countries online it seems that the whole "PC" overload that is said to be else where exists differently here, its much less if at all.

We have a virtue signalling, air head, PM but even those he virtue signals to shake their head in embarrassment. He recently interrupted a young female feminist who was celebrating mothers as building a 'better future for mankind' to explain that he 'prefers to say people kind.' Everyone groaned across the Nations.

We have Petersons campus brew ha ha's about preferred pronouns. But what people like yourself seem to be reacting to is something that seems very unfamiliar to me. One of our treasured, progressive, public radio personalities, comedians and folk musician who hosts a culture show was challenged by a young women about why he'd dare compare her music to another woman's, why not a man? He just said "youre not gonna do that to me are you? Okay; its because you sound very much like Kate Bush." So I just dont see any regressive or virtue signalling faux progressives really appealing to the masses here. We gifted Norm MacDonald to the world after all.

But none the less Roseanne said some dreadfully racist shit and rightfully so, she lost her show. 

I don't know any of those shows.

Here we have a lot of comedians that are very harsh and use very crude humour, I don't know if it would be accepted in some countries. That Roseanne comment or joke actually made me think of a joke one of the most popular comedians here once made during his comedy show, where he compared a black person to an ape aswell, in a more humorous and subtle way, but it was basically the same thing. I seriously doubt that there has been one person who got offended because of that joke, and his show even aired on national television. At the end of the day a lot of people here seem to agree that everything is acceptable in comedy. Of course not everyone agrees with that. 

But there will always be this discussion... it's the same thing with comedians immediately making jokes about 9/11 after it happening, and how important it is to be able to ridicule everything and that in comedy everything is acceptable. After Charlie Hebdo this discussion became very relevant again here.

[soon]

16 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I don't know any of those shows.

Here we have a lot of comedians that are very harsh and use very crude humour, I don't know if it would be accepted in some countries. That Roseanne comment or joke actually made me think of a joke one of the most popular comedians here once made during his comedy show, where he compared a black person to an ape aswell, in a more humorous and subtle way, but it was basically the same thing. I seriously doubt that there has been one person who got offended because of that joke, and his show even aired on national television. At the end of the day a lot of people here seem to agree that everything is acceptable in comedy. Of course not everyone agrees with that. 

But there will always be this discussion... it's the same thing with comedians immediately making jokes about 9/11 after it happening, and how important it is to be able to ridicule everything and that in comedy everything is acceptable. After Charlie Hebdo this discussion became very relevant again here.

Honestly its kinda starting to sound like your Country is fairly racist, sorry to say. But you say they are too PC? Is your Country the one with that Black Face Christmas character? 

Tragedy + time = comedy is the saying. Since racism in US is alive and well, there is no passage of time.

 

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, soon said:

Honestly its kinda starting to sound like your Country is fairly racist, sorry to say. But you say they are too PC? Is your Country the one with that Black Face Christmas character? 

Tragedy + time = comedy is the saying. Since racism in US is alive and well, there is no passage of time.

Yes, Black Pete, and it's not Christmas but Sinterklaas. But seriously, I'm not even going to start that discussion on here because I totally understand that someone from another country is not going to understand that tradition and I don't blame them. I probably wouldn't get it either if I hadn't grown up with this tradition. But yeah, that's another thing about people getting more sensitive... when I was a kid there was hardly ever talk about discrimination when it comes down to this tradition, now there are so many people protesting when that holiday is upon us. It's supposed to be a children's holiday/party but it's more and more about adults fighting over this supposedly racist character, which it definitely is not. But I guess it's kinda complicated. But that tradition is changing now, which is probably for the best. Keep everybody happy and try to remember that it's about the kids.

I'm from the Netherlands, my country isn't racist at all compared to a lot of other places. It's actually quite liberal and known to be a very tolerant place. I think it's just that the mentality is different. Like I said earlier, I'm the furthest thing from being a racist, but I don't get uptight or offended at a harsh joke that easily, at least not in comedy.

[DirtyDeeds]

I imagine I’ll get some shit for this, but I have a devil’s advocate question. I’m not familiar with the person Roseanne’s tweet was about, nor am I familiar with Planet of the Apes, but I think that Planet of the Apes has themes about abuse of power and that sort of thing. Is it possible that Roseanne was referring to that characteristic rather than just making a racist comment about a black person resembling an ape? 

[soon]

13 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yes, Black Pete, and it's not Christmas but Sinterklaas. But seriously, I'm not even going to start that discussion on here because I totally understand that someone from another country is not going to understand that tradition and I don't blame them. I probably wouldn't get it either if I hadn't grown up with this tradition. But yeah, that's another thing about people getting more sensitive... when I was a kid there was hardly ever talk about discrimination when it comes down to this tradition, now there are so many people protesting when that holiday is upon us. It's supposed to be a children's holiday/party but it's more and more about adults fighting over this supposedly racist character, which it definitely is not. But I guess it's kinda complicated. But that tradition is changing now, which is probably for the best. Keep everybody happy and try to remember that it's about the kids.

I'm from the Netherlands, my country isn't racist at all compared to a lot of other places. It's actually quite liberal and known to be a very tolerant place. I think it's just that the mentality is different. Like I said earlier, I'm the furthest thing from being a racist, but I don't get uptight or offended at a harsh joke that easily, at least not in comedy.

Well, if you arent up for discussing that we dont have to. But liberals can be racist and sometimes hold racist ideals without having that in check. I note that the UN felt the need to intervene and had the following to say:

In 2015 the UN stepped in to declare it was a “vestige of slavery”. Some major cities, including Amsterdam and The Hague, have refashioned Zwarte Piet’s image, or done away with him altogether, to avoid accusations of racism.

Two years ago the Dutch government said it would reflect on the character after a report from the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination claimed that “the character of Black Pete is sometimes portrayed in a manner that reflects negative stereotypes of people of African descent and is experienced by many people of African descent as a vestige of slavery”. It had urged the Netherlands to “actively promote the elimination” of the racial stereotyping.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/28/black-pete-extreme-right-appears-to-stoke-dutch-divisions

But we don't have to talk about that.

As far as 'just a joke' here is the founder of the Alt Right and an opponent agreeing that the Alt Right (rebranded white nationalism) used comedy to meme itself into existence. It was 'just a joke' and then they started murdering. The alt right is basically only comprised of racist/sexist humour and violence. Conversation on memes begins at 8:05:

 

[EvanG]

5 minutes ago, soon said:

Well, if you arent up for discussing that we dont have to. But liberals can be racist and sometimes hold racist ideals without having that in check. I note that the UN felt the need to intervene and had the following to say:

In 2015 the UN stepped in to declare it was a “vestige of slavery”. Some major cities, including Amsterdam and The Hague, have refashioned Zwarte Piet’s image, or done away with him altogether, to avoid accusations of racism.

Two years ago the Dutch government said it would reflect on the character after a report from the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination claimed that “the character of Black Pete is sometimes portrayed in a manner that reflects negative stereotypes of people of African descent and is experienced by many people of African descent as a vestige of slavery”. It had urged the Netherlands to “actively promote the elimination” of the racial stereotyping.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/28/black-pete-extreme-right-appears-to-stoke-dutch-divisions

But we don't have to talk about that.

As far as 'just a joke' here is the founder of the Alt Right and an opponent agreeing that the Alt Right (rebranded white nationalism) used comedy to meme itself into existence. It was 'just a joke' and then they started murdering. The alt right is basically only comprised of racist/sexist humour and violence. Conversation on memes begins at 8:05:

 

The thing about Zwarte Piet is, I understand that if you don't grow up with this tradition, it's hard to look at it the same way as people who do grow up with it. I wanted to be Zwarte Piet as a kid! I still have pictures of me dressing up like him... Zwarte Piet climbs roofs and is an awesome acrobat who gives presents to children. Who wouldn't want to be him? The fact that he's black was usually associated with him climbing or crawling through the chimney to deliver presents to the children and his face being black because of the smoke. Most people who celebrate this tradition have never associated Zwarte Piet with slavery. It wasn't until it became 'a thing' years ago that I started thinking about it. That's also why some people here are offended when people accuse them of being a racist concerning this, because it's never been associated with slavery or black people, until all those protesters started making those accusations.

The Zwarte Piet character is changing, now you have a Blue Pete and a Red Pete, and I don't know how many other kinds of Pete's. And like I said, that's probably for the best so we can put those accusations of racism behind us and let this be a celebration for the children. It's sad that an innocent celebration of a very old tradition for kids turns into this heated discussion about racism each year.

When it comes down to jokes, we are back to where we started. Why must we consider every joke about race, or religion, or whatever, immediately racist or discrimination? Why can't we make jokes about everything and everyone? I gave this example before in this thread, but as a typical 90s kid I used to watch the show The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and they were often making fun of white people and making white jokes. I don't think many people got offended at any of those jokes, I certainly didn't, although I guess technically those are ''racist jokes'' then, right?

 

[Angelica]

9 hours ago, soon said:

But why down grade "racist" to "politically incorrect," right?  

 

 

This ^^^

And again, freedom of speech does not mean ‘speech free of consequence’. 

[soon]

13 hours ago, EvanG said:

When it comes down to jokes, we are back to where we started. Why must we consider every joke about race, or religion, or whatever, immediately racist or discrimination? Why can't we make jokes about everything and everyone? I gave this example before in this thread, but as a typical 90s kid I used to watch the show The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and they were often making fun of white people and making white jokes. I don't think many people got offended at any of those jokes, I certainly didn't, although I guess technically those are ''racist jokes'' then, right?

 

Im confused by this because I have shared that I really enjoy no holds barred roast battle comedy. So that means I dont think all jokes about race and such have a malicious intent. But many do. Also forum and context matter.

I hope you watched the White Nationalist Richard Spence in the above video acknowledging to an opposing journalist that they hid behind "just a joke" to return organized racism to the forefront of American culture.

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by soon

[Angelica]

6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

When it comes down to jokes, we are back to where we started. Why must we consider every joke about race, or religion, or whatever, immediately racist or discrimination? Why can't we make jokes about everything and everyone? I gave this example before in this thread, but as a typical 90s kid I used to watch the show The Fresh Prince of Bel Air and they were often making fun of white people and making white jokes. I don't think many people got offended at any of those jokes, I certainly didn't, although I guess technically those are ''racist jokes'' then, right?

 

 

Jokes depend on context. Roseanne used an age old racist trope specifically meant to dehumanize black people by comparing them to animals. There’s not a lot of grey area, at least I don’t see it. 

 

 

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Angelica said:

 

Jokes depend on context. Roseanne used an age old racist trope specifically meant to dehumanize black people by comparing them to animals. There’s not a lot of grey area, at least I don’t see it. 

I agree, it was unfunny, uncalled for, and if people were hurt because of that joke/remark, then I feel sorry for them. But it's more about bad taste. I'm Dutch, I've been called a cheesehead as a joke so many times, I don't care.

[EvanG]

8 minutes ago, soon said:

Im confused by this because I have shared that I really enjoy no holds barred roast battle comedy. So that means I dont think all jokes about race and such have a malicious intent. But many do. Also forum and context matter.

I hope you watched the White Nationalist Richard Spence in the above video acknowledging to an opposing journalist they they hid behind "just a joke" to return organized racism to the forefront of American culture.

I don't know what to say about that, it's so far from what I stand for. All I'm saying is that you should be able to make jokes about everything and everyone and we shouldn't immediately pull the racism card. Of course there are a lot of jokes in bad taste and I would never intentionally want to hurt anyone, but that depends on each person individually.

[31illusions]

On 6/25/2018 at 6:43 AM, RussTCB said:

What's not to know? Racism is not a "little mistake", it's flat out wrong. She's being punished for saying something incredibly racist on a public platform while being a public figure. 

Get real dude. It's a comment AND NOTHING MORE. That's your opinion and not everyone else's. If you were offended by words then you wouldn't be working here. You look at words all day. Some are offensive AF. Do you loose sleep at night over a cross word said to one person by another? People should just grow up. There's a major double standard going on in this country right now and it's sickening.

[RussTCB]

4 minutes ago, 31illusions said:

Get real dude. It's a comment AND NOTHING MORE. That's your opinion and not everyone else's. If you were offended by words then you wouldn't be working here. You look at words all day. Some are offensive AF. Do you loose sleep at night over a cross word said to one person by another? People should just grow up. There's a major double standard going on in this country right now and it's sickening.

lolwut. I didn't say *I* was offended by it. You're seriously barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm some sort of person that gets offended by every little thing. 

[31illusions]

19 minutes ago, RussTCB said:

lolwut. I didn't say *I* was offended by it. You're seriously barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm some sort of person that gets offended by every little thing. 

Sorry Russ. I'm just not liking the whole news/social media backlash thing. All I've seen in the news lately is the Right Vs Left thing and that's what I believe this is all about and I took it out on you.

[RussTCB]

Just now, 31illusions said:

Sorry Russ. I'm just not liking the whole news/social media backlash thing. All I've seen in the news lately is the Right Vs Left thing and that's what I believe this is all about and I took it out on you.

No worries

Trust me.... I hear ya on the overall thing.

[wasted]

Who was offended by Roseanne’s comment? 

[Ace Spade]

Who would be offended if she called John Goodman a  "Cracker"?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Ace Spade

[wasted]

3 hours ago, Ace Spade said:

Who would be offended if she called John Goodman a  "Cracker"?

I wouldn’t want ABC patronising moi. There’s no such thing as white people, we’re individuals who want to make up our own minds by paying for cable to distract us from

the truth.

”is it all just wasted time!”

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

I still think it was overkill in firing Roseanne. It's like they had to make an example out of her. Meanwhile, did you see the ad where Madonna, Johnny Depp and other so called celebrities are really talking bad shit about Trump. Madonna said she thought seriously about blowing up the WH. I mean come on. She needs to take care of her kids and then she can talk about everyone else.

I know they are citizens of the US, but it still annoys me when celebrities talk shit and then don't add anything to help solve the problems. All talk and no action.

Someone in this country voted for Trump, so why not try to change things by the next election.

All this talk and you know they won't really get involved to help the middle and poor class that have to live paycheck to paycheck just to make ends meet.

Why not use your money to make things better for people who don't have much and want a better life? I never could stand Madonna anyway.

11 hours ago, Ace Spade said:

Who would be offended if she called John Goodman a  "Cracker"?

I would admit I would laugh.