Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, action said: their rules, but they need to be in accordance with the law of course everyone needs to abide the law, and that includes private companies. just because you agree with ticketmaster, doesn't make their actions legal. and pssst, the nazis have been cast out 70 years ago Their actions are completely legal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussTCB Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, action said: not all consequences are acceptable. I'm sure, you can think of consequences in life, which you too, will find unacceptable. I find the decision not to allow people to a concert, unacceptable. And many people agree with me. "many people agree with me"? This from the person constantly misusing the term "nazi"? Lol, that's rich. 2 minutes ago, action said: their rules, but they need to be in accordance with the law of course everyone needs to abide the law, and that includes private companies. just because you agree with ticketmaster, doesn't make their actions legal. and pssst, the nazis have been cast out 70 years ago Another example of you not understanding the consequences of your own personal decision. Then trying to blame it on a company that's providing a service where they make the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Dazey said: Their actions are completely legal. judge Dazey has spoken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, action said: judge Dazey has spoken What’s illegal about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Dazey said: What’s illegal about it? discrimination based on an illegal criterium 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) @action you won't have to get vaccinated to go to a concert, it's just the "easier" option. "Ticketmaster has been working on a framework for post-pandemic fan safety that uses smart phones to verify fans' vaccination status or whether they've tested negative for the coronavirus within a 24 to 72 hour window." Don't get a vaccine if you don't want one. I won't be getting one either (at least not at first). But you'll still have to prove that you don't have covid, which is a completely reasonable thing to do. Edited November 14, 2020 by Gordon Comstock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, action said: discrimination based on an illegal criterium Illegal under what law? 14 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said: @action you won't have to get vaccinated to go to a concert, it's just the "easier" option. "Ticketmaster has been working on a framework for post-pandemic fan safety that uses smart phones to verify fans' vaccination status or whether they've tested negative for the coronavirus within a 24 to 72 hour window." Don't get a vaccine if you don't want one. I won't be getting one either (at least not at first). But you'll still have to prove that you don't have covid, which is a completely reasonable thing to do. By his logic it’s probably illegal to require people to get a covid test. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Good luck getting reasonable health and life insurance if you take a covid test and get a positive result.... if you think you have covid just stay home and rest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Coma16 said: Good luck getting reasonable health and life insurance if you take a covid test and get a positive result.... if you think you have covid just stay home and rest! Aren’t you in favour of scrapping Obamacare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dazey said: Illegal under what law? discrimination on medical grounds. It's been long established that you can't discriminate based on medical grounds. In the 90s, HIV positive people were broadly discriminated against, and now it's people who are suspected of carrying covid. individuals who are in similar situations, should be treated equally and not be discriminated because of certain characteristics that they posess (such as, not being vaccinated) This applies in the private domain, in relations between individuals or companies and individuals. in european anti-discrimination law, there "protected grounds" such as ethnicity, sexuality and disability. These grounds are interpreted broadly. You can make the argument, that "not being vaccinated" is a medical characteristic, and thus being classed under "disability". It really makes a difference between people, based on their medical status. source: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/1510-fra-case-law-handbook_en.pdf on the subject of discrimination based on medical grounds, in the US, see: https://www.justia.com/employment/employment-discrimination/medical-condition-discrimination/#:~:text=Employment Discrimination on the Basis,demoting%2C training and job assignments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, action said: discrimination on medical grounds. It's been long established that you can't discriminate based on medical grounds. In the 90s, HIV positive people were broadly discriminated against, and now it's people who are suspected of carrying covid. individuals who are in similar situations, should be treated equally and not be discriminated because of certain characteristics that they posess (such as, not being vaccinated) This applies in the private domain, in relations between individuals or companies and individuals. in european anti-discrimination law, there "protected grounds" such as ethnicity, sexuality and disability. These grounds are interpreted broadly. You can make the argument, that "not being vaccinated" is a medical characteristic, and thus being classed under "disability". It really makes a difference between people, based on their medical status. source: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/1510-fra-case-law-handbook_en.pdf on the subject of discrimination based on medical grounds, in the US, see: https://www.justia.com/employment/employment-discrimination/medical-condition-discrimination/#:~:text=Employment Discrimination on the Basis,demoting%2C training and job assignments. Is it discrimination to say that you don’t want to take it up the arse from somebody who’s HIV positive? Is that a violation of their rights? I only ask because given the vastly different methods of transmission the concert venue would be a cavernous arsehole and you would be an AIDS riddled cock in this metaphor. Edited November 14, 2020 by Dazey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dazey said: Aren’t you in favour of scrapping Obamacare? I'm not American and don't know enough about it. I have heard stories about middle class folks who have been negatively affected by obamacare though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dazey said: Is it discrimination to say that you don’t want to take it up the arse from somebody who’s HIV positive? Is that a violation of their rights? I only want to attend a concert, not to take people up the arse. there have been cases brought before the european court on human rights, where restaurants refuse to allow certain people based on certain characteristics. discrimination law interferes with choices we make in our society, and the consequences of our choices. And damn lucky that they do. Imagine if restaurants, employers,... could freely discriminate people on the most diverse grounds. read the anti-discrimination handbook I referenced. as a leftist person, it should be of great interest to you. Why not familiarise yourself with anti discrimination law? you are against discrimination, are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, action said: I only want to attend a concert, not to take people up the arse. there have been cases brought before the european court on human rights, where restaurants refuse to allow certain people based on certain characteristics. discrimination law interferes with choices we make in our society, and the consequences of our choices. And damn lucky that they do. Imagine if restaurants, employers,... could freely discriminate people on the most diverse grounds. read the anti-discrimination handbook I referenced. as a leftist person, it should be of great interest to you. Why not familiarise yourself with anti discrimination law? you are against discrimination, are you? If you’re going to use anti AIDS discrimination as an argument you need have to understand that you can’t catch HIV by standing in a crowded room with somebody who is infected. The only way your analogy works is by arguing it should be illegal to prevent somebody infected with HIV from spreading it indiscriminately. 5 minutes ago, Coma16 said: I'm not American and don't know enough about it. I have heard stories about middle class folks who have been negatively affected by obamacare though. Apologies. I must have misremembered. Would a covid test make a massive difference to your medical insurance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dazey said: If you’re going to use anti AIDS discrimination as an argument you need have to understand that you can’t catch HIV by standing in a crowded room with somebody who is infected. The only way your analogy works is by arguing it should be illegal to prevent somebody infected with HIV from spreading it indiscriminately. I agree. That's why I would agree if ticketmaster only asked for "proof" that you are covid-negative, such as with fever scanners or quick on-the field-testing. why couldn't they leave it at that? demanding vaccination is disproportional., and herein lies the illegality. look up the effect of disproportionality in relation to discriminating measures. A less radical demand is possible, so the demand for vaccination is unacceptable. Edited November 14, 2020 by action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coma16 Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dazey said: If you’re going to use anti AIDS discrimination as an argument you need have to understand that you can’t catch HIV by standing in a crowded room with somebody who is infected. The only way your analogy works is by arguing it should be illegal to prevent somebody infected with HIV from spreading it indiscriminately. Apologies. I must have misremembered. Would a covid test make a massive difference to your medical insurance? I have friend who is an insurance broker and they say that is the trend at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Coma16 said: I have friend who is an insurance broker and they say that is the trend at the moment. I get my medical insurance through work so I don’t pay much attention. I thought you were speaking in the context of the US. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Comstock Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, action said: I agree. That's why I would agree if ticketmaster only asked for "proof" that you are covid-negative, such as with fever scanners or quick on-the field-testing. why couldn't they leave it at that? demanding vaccination is disproportional., and herein lies the illegality. look up the effect of disproportionality in relation to discriminating measures. A less radical demand is possible, so the demand for vaccination is unacceptable. Nobody is demanding vaccination though. They are literally "only asking for proof," either in the form of vaccination status or negative test results. I agree with you that if they were demanding vaccinations, they'd be out of line and people should be angry about it... but you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dazey said: Aren’t you in favour of scrapping Obamacare? Hes Canadian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, action said: discrimination on medical grounds. It's been long established that you can't discriminate based on medical grounds. In the 90s, HIV positive people were broadly discriminated against, and now it's people who are suspected of carrying covid. individuals who are in similar situations, should be treated equally and not be discriminated because of certain characteristics that they posess (such as, not being vaccinated) This applies in the private domain, in relations between individuals or companies and individuals. in european anti-discrimination law, there "protected grounds" such as ethnicity, sexuality and disability. These grounds are interpreted broadly. You can make the argument, that "not being vaccinated" is a medical characteristic, and thus being classed under "disability". It really makes a difference between people, based on their medical status. source: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/1510-fra-case-law-handbook_en.pdf on the subject of discrimination based on medical grounds, in the US, see: https://www.justia.com/employment/employment-discrimination/medical-condition-discrimination/#:~:text=Employment Discrimination on the Basis,demoting%2C training and job assignments. Dude, hosting a large gathering WITHOUT regard for the likelihood of then spreading the disease to vulnerable populations is what would touch on the concept of medical discrimination 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, soon said: Hes Canadian. Would a positive covid test fuck up a Canadian's healthcare access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, Dazey said: Would a positive covid test fuck up a Canadian's healthcare access? Not in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 Just now, soon said: Not in the slightest. Did seem a little odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, soon said: Dude, hosting a large gathering WITHOUT regard for the likelihood of then spreading the disease to vulnerable populations is what would touch on the concept of medical discrimination agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted November 14, 2020 Share Posted November 14, 2020 1 hour ago, action said: demanding vaccination is disproportional., No it isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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