THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[bmus1]

9 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

It will be an URL:

https://stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/

This made laugh harder than it should've. I was learning Hard Skool on drums over the weekend note-for-note and there's a couple sections that are so damn unnatural.

[Voodoochild]

15 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

This made laugh harder than it should've. I was learning Hard Skool on drums over the weekend note-for-note and there's a couple sections that are so damn unnatural.

Is there any part you'd like to point out? I'm not a drummer, but I've been trying to learn a bit more about it (without having any means to actually play it) for music production purposes. 

[bmus1]

13 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Is there any part you'd like to point out? I'm not a drummer, but I've been trying to learn a bit more about it (without having any means to actually play it) for music production purposes. 

The drums aren't wrong as much as they feel incomplete when you try to play them note-for-note. From 0:14 to 0:18 there's the missing kick drum under the sudden switch to the cymbal and a swung snare hit followed by a heavy handed snare roll, all together in a row. Live, Frank doesn't switch to the cymbal and plays a more natural sounding fill to transition into the verse. 2:01 to 2:24 also sticks out to me as something a real drummer wouldn't play based on how little it grooves, and how little interplay there is between the kick drum and bass guitar. But re-watching the live version made me realize Frank plays it way closer to the original than I thought.

Still though, Frank adds ghosted snare notes and extra kick hits across the whole song, which goes back to the incomplete drum part idea.

(time stamps are referencing the studio version btw)

[Voodoochild]

57 minutes ago, bmus1 said:

The drums aren't wrong as much as they feel incomplete when you try to play them note-for-note. From 0:14 to 0:18 there's the missing kick drum under the sudden switch to the cymbal and a swung snare hit followed by a heavy handed snare roll, all together in a row. Live, Frank doesn't switch to the cymbal and plays a more natural sounding fill to transition into the verse. 2:01 to 2:24 also sticks out to me as something a real drummer wouldn't play based on how little it grooves, and how little interplay there is between the kick drum and bass guitar. But re-watching the live version made me realize Frank plays it way closer to the original than I thought.

Still though, Frank adds ghosted snare notes and extra kick hits across the whole song, which goes back to the incomplete drum part idea.

(time stamps are referencing the studio version btw)

Thanks for sharing this info! It's really fascinating!

Maybe the lack of interplay between drums and bass is only some editing fuck up? Arguably, Duff recorded his parts after the drum track, but maybe he played following a different version/arrangement. 

My theory is that this was a heavily edited combination of real drums, samples and fake drums put together by Caram and Axl for some reason. 

Edited March 12 by Voodoochild

[bmus1]

13 minutes ago, Voodoochild said:

Thanks for sharing this info! It's really fascinating!

Maybe the lack of interplay between drums and bass is only some editing fuck up? Arguably, Duff recorded his parts after the drum track, but maybe he played following a different version/arrangement. 

My theory is that this was a heavily edited combination of real drums, samples and fake drums put together by Caram and Axl for some reason. 

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

[DTV88]

1 hour ago, bmus1 said:

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

It’s fascinating to read these details. I have zero experience with garage band or pro tools or any of that sort, so to read where parts have been reused or where there is a potentially missing drum part helps me to understand why the CD leftovers sound so weird. Like the Hey Hey part being lifted from State Of Grace. 
 

I understand this is a legitimate way of producing music and it’s more common now than ever. It just feels so inorganic and forced if that makes sense. 

[Voodoochild]

1 hour ago, bmus1 said:

Editing fuck-up is my best guess too. It's not a mistake of Duff's either, just that the drums are too synthetic feeling to get any sort of groove between the rhythm section. My theory is someone else's that I read here years ago; Melissa programmed the drums using samples from Frank's kit and Frank's input, but the parts weren't actually performed by a drummer.

Looking at the five CD remakes we have, Hard Skool and Monsters (in the chorus) both use the same drum samples. From the afterparty leak, we know Monsters is now more of a straightforward rock beat song than it was in 2010. Hard Skool is also dramatically reworked from the Village Leaks. It's possible that the bass/drum intro of Hard Skool was written before Duff and Slash joined, but all of this leads me to believe Perhaps, Absurd, and The General were more or less arranged before Duff and Slash rejoined (we know this to be true for Perhaps and Absurd), while Hard Skool and Monsters were reworked in greater depth by Slash and Duff, leading to new drum machine drums. The drums also don't sound the same tonally as Frank's initial recording sessions (Chinese Democracy, Oh My God BBF version are the two best examples of that I think).

Thanks. I agree with you, but I doubt Melissa had anything to do with it. I think it's way more plausible to be Caram and Axl.

36 minutes ago, DTV88 said:

It’s fascinating to read these details. I have zero experience with garage band or pro tools or any of that sort, so to read where parts have been reused or where there is a potentially missing drum part helps me to understand why the CD leftovers sound so weird. Like the Hey Hey part being lifted from State Of Grace. 
 

I understand this is a legitimate way of producing music and it’s more common now than ever. It just feels so inorganic and forced if that makes sense. 

Everybody does this on pro tools. The secret is to not make it sounding like it. Kinda like movie CGI  

[CAFC Nick]

Has anyone turned the General artwork into a phone wallpaper yet? Annoyingly I lack the skills to do this on photoshop without it being super warped...