THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[Tom2112]

29 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

It’s not your task to judge anybody’s opinion. He answered your question before you could actually ask for. Also, Slash‘s work contains more than just the solo. 

Having said that, I thought the solo on Perhaps was a bit underwhelming, too, mostly because of the way they release those left overs. Had they released them as a bunch it would be more acceptable to me if there had been one short, unspectacular solo out of five or six tracks. Releasing them song for song you have nothing else to focus on and you expect the best for each release.

I appreciate that they said it was great, but for me it's not. So of course their opinion is valid, but I'm just curious what it is that would be considered bad coming from Slash. Does such a thing exist? 

[Rovim]

4 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

I appreciate that they said it was great, but for me it's not. So of course their opinion is valid, but I'm just curious what it is that would be considered bad coming from Slash. Does such a thing exist? 

kinda seems like you are now questioning the musical taste and the objectivity of a poster about Slash cause they think one of his solos is great and you don't agree with that. if not, my bad.

[Tom2112]

56 minutes ago, Rovim said:

the quality standard that Slash has set for what I personally consider a great Slash solo is high, I don't think he's as good as he was and I prefer Robin's Perhaps solo but I can honestly say I really like Slash's solo on the officially released version and for me it's memorable. those weird triple bends in it is my favorite part of the solo. really brought a nice flavor to it imho.

I think had there been a few of those bends and then it arrived on a solid idea then it would be cool, I just don't think it ever really landed on solid idea.... Unless the idea was to not have anything hooky in it. I've listened to that song at least 50 times and cannot recall the solo other there's some low bends in it. 

I don't really enjoy it, but it's rare for any solo to please everyone. And I think Slash has lost a step.

[Tom2112]

2 minutes ago, Rovim said:

kinda seems like you are now questioning the musical taste and the objectivity of a poster about Slash cause they think one of his solos is great and you don't agree with that. if not, my bad.

Well no and yes, I would question anyone's objectivity if they said something I completely disagree with, but I also appreciate anyone can have a different taste which might sound contradictory. I just see a lot of people who say these things and even when they try and say something negative it's always smoothed off with "but it's Slash, just enjoy watching/listening to a legend" which is is completely not objective. Everybody is capable of good ideas and bad ideas, including Slash. Perhaps solo = not so great idea. For some they will love it, but for others they'll hear it and think "that one was phoned in"... I'm obviously the latter😄

Like what you like though, I'm thankfully not an authority on what everybody should like/dislike

[Rovim]

22 minutes ago, Tom2112 said:

Well no and yes, I would question anyone's objectivity if they said something I completely disagree with, but I also appreciate anyone can have a different taste which might sound contradictory. I just see a lot of people who say these things and even when they try and say something negative it's always smoothed off with "but it's Slash, just enjoy watching/listening to a legend" which is is completely not objective. Everybody is capable of good ideas and bad ideas, including Slash. Perhaps solo = not so great idea. For some they will love it, but for others they'll hear it and think "that one was phoned in"... I'm obviously the latter😄

Like what you like though, I'm thankfully not an authority on what everybody should like/dislike

yes, Slash doesn't shit gold everytime he plays or records a solo just because he is Slash, but no one is an authority about shit like music cause it's also about the individual listener and how they perceive a piece of music. there are many factors that dictate taste so assuming the person is dishonest or got questionable taste just cause they like something you don't like or don't like as much could mean that you find it difficult to accept the difference in opinion even if you don't mean to do it. (not talking about you specifically)

like it doesn't make my opinion that something fuckin' sucks any less valid cause someone else or millions of people think is great or vice versa.

Edited March 4 by Rovim

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Both Perhaps solos are mediocre. Both were also far more than such an atrocious song deserved.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, Tom2112 said:

I appreciate that they said it was great, but for me it's not. So of course their opinion is valid, but I'm just curious what it is that would be considered bad coming from Slash. Does such a thing exist? 

Can’t speak for others but for me when I think back to 2017, during the reunion shows in Munich and London they played Yesterdays and that solo was something I considered really bad. Of course there are a lot of other examples like his first one or two attempts of Don‘t Damn Me live or a few TWAT and Sorry solos.

But I also heard him playing these solos great and I think someones opinion must be biased when it gets generalized that every CD solo of him is bad.

[Sweersa]

I thought the second part of Slash's Hard Skool demo was good. It would have fit the 2000 mix of the song. I wish they didn't rework it to the extent they did. 

[Rovim]

Just now, Sweersa said:

I thought the second part of Slash's Hard Skool demo was good. It would have fit the 2000 mix of the song. I wish they didn't rework it to the extent they did. 

I miss the drum track from the leak. Slash's second solo with the slide is really nice. liked the bridge on the leak as well though. the chord progression was different and I liked how the 2 lead lines met at the most melodic part on the leak.

having more than one version of a song I like from Gn'R is both cool and annoying. I often find myself missing a cool part from some other version of a Chinese tune.

[Sweersa]

4 minutes ago, Rovim said:

I miss the drum track from the leak. Slash's second solo with the slide is really nice. liked the bridge on the leak as well though. the chord progression was different and I liked how the 2 lead lines met at the most melodic part on the leak.

having more than one version of a song I like from Gn'R is both cool and annoying. I often find myself missing a cool part from some other version of a Chinese tune.

I know the feeling! Josh's drums on the Hardschool demo were incredible. I imagined there were mixes with Brain on drums that sounded nice too. The production really killed the drums. Sounds almost like a drum machine. Even Frank's playing is better, so I think they really processed Brain and/or Frank's drums on the official version. Axl's vocals also seemed off on the final version. 

[bmus1]

I know Brain is allegedly the drummer on Hard Skool, but nothing about the drums sound similar to any other song he recorded with GNR. Playing style, drum tone, even compression levels. The Perhaps drums got squashed to hell and back and sound nothing like HS.

I still like the theory that it was a drum machine with parts written by Frank, programmed by him and Melissa. Frank's live part has a lot of resemblance to the studio version, but still has a few embellishments that give it the human element. Compared to Perhaps where the drums are totally different live than Brain's studio version, and Frank is slamming the hi-hat for the majority of the song. Also, this would support the idea that Slash and Duff actually contributed creatively to Hard Skool and added in the bass intro. Huge doubt that GNR would book a recording session for Frank to do new drums for Hard Skool. But they would record guitars and bass in their home studios, and program a new drum part on the road. This is a lot of conjecture but it all makes more sense than Brain playing drums on the song.

[Tom2112]

3 hours ago, Free Bird said:

Can’t speak for others but for me when I think back to 2017, during the reunion shows in Munich and London they played Yesterdays and that solo was something I considered really bad. Of course there are a lot of other examples like his first one or two attempts of Don‘t Damn Me live or a few TWAT and Sorry solos.

But I also heard him playing these solos great and I think someones opinion must be biased when it gets generalized that every CD solo of him is bad.

Yeah I'd agree with most of those examples! 

He definitely turns it on and off. But I think a lot of it is boredom and him trying to stretch out, sometimes that's good and sometimes like Yesterday's it's hard to listen to because the original idea was SO much better

[Tom2112]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

yes, Slash doesn't shit gold everytime he plays or records a solo just because he is Slash, but no one is an authority about shit like music cause it's also about the individual listener and how they perceive a piece of music. there are many factors that dictate taste so assuming the person is dishonest or got questionable taste just cause they like something you don't like or don't like as much could mean that you find it difficult to accept the difference in opinion even if you don't mean to do it. (not talking about you specifically)

like it doesn't make my opinion that something fuckin' sucks any less valid cause someone else or millions of people think is great or vice versa.

Well there are measurable things. Like if he's bending out of tune etc. that's not really debatable when we know what he was actually trying to do because we've heard the original thousands of times. 

It's not about questionable taste though, but I do think some fans are so into the band that they choose to overlook the flaws... So there is some wilful dishonesty there, we've seen it for years before Slash came back too. Anyway I think we're basically on the same page as in each to their own.

[Arnuld]

22 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I hear more than on the General.

Both have much less than I thought. That concert intro made it seem like the general would be all strings 

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, Arnuld said:

Both have much less than I thought. That concert intro made it seem like the general would be all strings 

I‘m glad it’s not as prominent as most people thought it would be. I wanna rock n roll and not some gangster rap sounds

[Rovim]

14 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Well there are measurable things. Like if he's bending out of tune etc. that's not really debatable when we know what he was actually trying to do because we've heard the original thousands of times. 

It's not about questionable taste though, but I do think some fans are so into the band that they choose to overlook the flaws... So there is some wilful dishonesty there, we've seen it for years before Slash came back too. Anyway I think we're basically on the same page as in each to their own.

I'll just add that sometimes out of tune bends and even out of tune guitars are part of a sound and the reason a piece of music works better. Have you heard about this for example? 

John Frusciante Speaks on Out-of-Tune Guitars on Red Hot Chili Peppers' Scar Tissue | Ultimate Guitar (ultimate-guitar.com)

so I like the sound Slash makes during those fucked up bends on his Perhaps solo. we like what we like on the level that we like it and no reason should be provided, that's optional.

maybe some fans don't care about the flaws and don't see it as flaws and how would you know who is being honest with themselves about how much they like a piece of music anyway?

it becomes more pointless when you consider that what can't be measured is how good or shit a song is in any objective way cause again, it depends on each person that listens to it. it's not just math and the human nature is all about not being objective sometimes about things we feel strongly about like hardcore fans and music they're into but I think most Gn'R fans in this forum tell it like it is and even go into detail, explaining why they think it sucks or they think it's great and anything in between, often ranking the shit and making lists.

it's to each to their own only if you kinda give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time imo and not urge them to prove they truly think it's great or insinuate they're just fooling themselves. it comes off as arrogant and again, I'm just talking in general, not specifically about you. 

 

 

Edited March 5 by Rovim

[Tom2112]

20 hours ago, Rovim said:

I'll just add that sometimes out of tune bends and even out of tune guitars are part of a sound and the reason a piece of music works better. Have you heard about this for example? 

John Frusciante Speaks on Out-of-Tune Guitars on Red Hot Chili Peppers' Scar Tissue | Ultimate Guitar (ultimate-guitar.com)

so I like the sound Slash makes during those fucked up bends on his Perhaps solo. we like what we like on the level that we like it and no reason should be provided, that's optional.

maybe some fans don't care about the flaws and don't see it as flaws and how would you know who is being honest with themselves about how much they like a piece of music anyway?

it becomes more pointless when you consider that what can't be measured is how good or shit a song is in any objective way cause again, it depends on each person that listens to it. it's not just math and the human nature is all about not being objective sometimes about things we feel strongly about like hardcore fans and music they're into but I think most Gn'R fans in this forum tell it like it is and even go into detail, explaining why they think it sucks or they think it's great and anything in between, often ranking the shit and making lists.

it's to each to their own only if you kinda give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time imo and not urge them to prove they truly think it's great or insinuate they're just fooling themselves. it comes off as arrogant and again, I'm just talking in general, not specifically about you. 

 

 

Oh yeah of course there's plenty of solos and riffs that are purposefully not perfectly tuned. I'm more talking about how he was for example playing NR for the first few years or when he tries to bend on his double neck. You know what he's going for but it's not quite in tune. End of the day it's live and mistakes happen I'm not scolding him... Although it is a bit criminal how often he overshoots the runway given he claims to play all the time (just like Kirk Hammett)... But I digress😄 

And well you can ask the question, let it float out there and still go 🤷‍♂️ and carry on with your day. For me I guess it's just how I was schooled but everything is up for discussion even personal taste, why someone likes something you don't might just make you listen again and appreciate something you missed or couldn't appreciate because you were stuck in the "this is the right way 👊" mentality... And likewise explaining your reasons for disliking might make them as equally cynical about music in the future. Win win😁

[Arnuld]

23 hours ago, Free Bird said:

I‘m glad it’s not as prominent as most people thought it would be. I wanna rock n roll and not some gangster rap sounds

I really like the big epic sounding songs with a lot of strings. (NV TWAT Prostitute) I thought that was what we were getting with the General 

[JimiRose]

On 3/4/2024 at 9:17 PM, bmus1 said:

I know Brain is allegedly the drummer on Hard Skool, but nothing about the drums sound similar to any other song he recorded with GNR. Playing style, drum tone, even compression levels. The Perhaps drums got squashed to hell and back and sound nothing like HS.

I still like the theory that it was a drum machine with parts written by Frank, programmed by him and Melissa. Frank's live part has a lot of resemblance to the studio version, but still has a few embellishments that give it the human element. Compared to Perhaps where the drums are totally different live than Brain's studio version, and Frank is slamming the hi-hat for the majority of the song. Also, this would support the idea that Slash and Duff actually contributed creatively to Hard Skool and added in the bass intro. Huge doubt that GNR would book a recording session for Frank to do new drums for Hard Skool. But they would record guitars and bass in their home studios, and program a new drum part on the road. This is a lot of conjecture but it all makes more sense than Brain playing drums on the song.

Wouldnt it be nice if someone in the band could just tell us. You know, like every other band. 

On 3/5/2024 at 4:59 AM, Free Bird said:

I‘m glad it’s not as prominent as most people thought it would be. I wanna rock n roll and not some gangster rap sounds

Didn't realise gangsta rap was full of dark orchestra 

[Tom2112]

10 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Wouldnt it be nice if someone in the band could just tell us. You know, like every other band. 

Didn't realise gangsta rap was full of dark orchestra 

I thought all the questions with regard to Brain were answered? Not in a statement but Instagram responses etc. I am pretty positive it was confirmed that brain played drums on all the released tracks not Frank. Possible that Frank recorded some things like he did on Chinese though like a chorus here or a fill there. Definitely not out of realms of possibility but for sure Slash confirmed the drums/vocal  were kept from the original recordings.

[Free Bird]

16 hours ago, JimiRose said:

Wouldnt it be nice if someone in the band could just tell us. You know, like every other band. 

Didn't realise gangsta rap was full of dark orchestra 

I listened to a lot of Gangsta rap 20 years ago snd there’s definitely more dark orchestra included than in sny kind of rock music

[gunsnchalupas]

 

I get A&E is generally sensationalized reality TV, but this video is basically the entire lyrical plot of the song Monsters to a tee. 

Edited March 10 by gunsnchalupas

[MYWIFEMYLIFE]

The General in 1991. But because 90s were way cooler, and production was ace, the video and song is a lot better. 

[Sweersa]

If Hard Skool ends up on an album (hopefully it will get a remix if so), I hope they have credits so we can figure out who/what played drums. 

[Voodoochild]

46 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

If Hard Skool ends up on an album (hopefully it will get a remix if so), I hope they have credits so we can figure out who/what played drums. 

It will be an URL:

https://stevenslatedrums.com/ssd5/