reasons why BBF > GNR

[whatashame]

In this post I want to outline the reasons in favor of Bumblefoot in, shall I say, the heated argument between him and the band.

The general outcome of this post is to underline that he deserves a lot more respects than he now gets.

I believe the reasons are not subjective, and exclude arguments such as "so cute", "pretty cool" or "the best".

This post should serve as a stimulant for a following discussion. It should work the best for open minded people. In the shadow of changes within the Guns N'Roses band, it is a good moment to update our retrospective view of things.

So to summarize my whole ided beforehand:
1. BBF deserves a lot more respect in GNR history than he seems to get
2. BBF shows other musicians how to deal with fans
3. His decision to leave GNR is a sign of being creative, like an artist should
4. fuckin bury Appetite already


I should start with saying that BBF changed the face of GNR - and hopefully, forever.

He was the first member of this band to acknowledge fans - and did a great job of it.

The band notorious for ignoring its fans finally got a musician who stood level with and one on one with the fans.

If you ever spent 10 hours doing a banner to welcome GNR in your country (sometimes for the first time ever) during their world tour, then arrived at the venue early morning of the show, waited around in the scorching sun to make sure to be the first in line when the gates are opened, and then stood another 10 hours in the first row, holding your banner, not going to the bathroom or to get a cold drink or a burrito to eat, clinching to that fuckin fence and making sure when the show starts 5 hours later than the ticket says (usually around midnite), and then wave your banner - if the was ever any one person to give you any kind of notice from the stage for your work and efford - it was Bumblefoot and Bumblefoot only. Who else? Buckethead?

Same goes for writing those 'will you marry me?' banners. BBF held it up for these girlfriends to see, during the GNR set. Now, that's some memories in the making right there.

I have never been to a GNR meet and greet, so I there's a certain limit to which I can be held realiable here, but still, I have seen thousands of meet and greet photos over the years, and all of them can be easily categorized into two groups:

- a pack of mannequins stands there clueless next to a group of middle-aged-crisis fans, totally outta the place

- a pack of mannequins stands there clueless next to a group of middle-aged-crisis fans, totally outta the place + Bumblefoot doing or at least trying to do something funny, unique or special for you, so you have something to show for the thousand bucks or however much it is you paid for them to pretend to care about you for a second. Such unique or specials things include pointing to the writing on your t-shirt, as in "I agree with that guy", or some other kind of nice gesture acknowledging your presence in the room. It's cool in my book. Even if some strike back "it's only BBF, he ain't no Slash", I still say the best you can get is take a picture home with you and next time you go to a bar, show these chicks and pricks that you had a picture taken with "that guy from GNR".

Up next, I think it was Rio 2010 when a GNR concert was cancelled. While Ashba was drunk and locked up in his suitcase, as he often boasted about during the interviews, and Tommy was drunk out of the fuckin loop, it was Bumblefoot who took his guitar, went outside the hotel and had an "acoustic impromptu" show with the fans (for a lack of a better word). Hanging around with them, singing songs, doing what ever monkey tricks they wanted him to do. Had it been me travelling a long distance to a show that got cancelled, taking time off work, going thru the hassle that only concert goes know, it would have meant the world to me that my effort was acknowledged, and even more so while all the other band memembers were in the same hotel and didn't give a shit to walk out, getting fat in their cozy, warm five star rooms with their mini bars. Fuck that.

And should I mention twitter? While Axl twitts fuck all and Matt talks shit about dolphins, over the years BBF has replied to as many of our stupid messages as he could. For me the best argument in here is that I created a twitter account to follow the band more easily - and the next time I logged on it I got a message that BBF follows me. And it came to me as even a bigger surprize bikoz for one, I didn't even ask him to, and two - I didn't even tweet shit! No messages, no posts, zero activity, nada. I swear to God.


I don't want to play band members against each other, but just to show you by comparison, Richard Fortus won't answer a tweet to save his life.

Izzy's interaction with the fans?
Remember how in 2012 there was a voting regarding who should enter the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame? It was a close one between RHCP and GNR, and you could vote once an hour. Now, I went thru some much trouble to vote as often as I could, setting those alarm clocks every hour to remember to do it - I don't even know why, I just thought RNR HOF is serious business. Not to mention bugging friends to vote too. And don't tell me some of you didn't just as well. And Izzy didn't even show up to collect the award. It's thanks to people like me and you that he is a Hall of Famer, which basically means that his music will still be played on the radio for the next few years and the checks will keep coming. So as far as that goes, in my book "Where's Izzy?" changes into "Fuck Izzy!".
Message to butt-hutters : yeah, I love his solo discography too, I didn't even mention that so relax.

A lot of people root for Robin to come back to the band now. It was especially clear to see during the 2006 tour - a few, far and between, people would every now and then have a picture taken with Robin - nobody knows how, just somehow, maybe by accident or by some heavy stalking. They would post it here or on HTGTH, and worldwide masturbation would being.
- aw ma gawd, Robin exists off stage too?
- aw ma gawd, #Robin Finck Starts Now
I was one of those people too, whenever I saw someone else take a picture with Robin, I'd feel the same feeling of excitement and thrill when people drop the word "THE VAULT" here. Is this something you would call interaction with fans? And as much as I love his style of playing and I know he is an artist, Robin Finck-the-GNR-member is a fuckin mannequin, not much more than that. He doesn't exist before the show and he doesn't exist after the show. He never did interviews, no videos, and once he had a website that had pretty much nothing on it. His only purpose was to stand on stage for two hours and play and then dissapear.
Again, butt-hutters - I love Robin, I'm just objectively sayin as far as acknowledging that YOU AND ME exist, BBF fucked Robin in the ass like they fuck on the discovery channel

It's a little different with Buckethead, bikoz with him it's an open and fair game - it is his identity and he must remain a certain character. And he does a great job of it bikoz being, what, 25 years in the business and still nobody knows jackshit about him. That's different. That's not because he neglects people. He makes it a lot more interesting.

I will now compare Axl to Bumblefoot and focus on one little fact - being patient with people. While Axl is known for throwing fans out of the shows, abusing them verbally or even hitting them - Bumblefoot had to put up with TONS more shit than Axl, and NEVER lost temper.
I for one met BBF once, and was quite drunk while so, doing the drunken talk just to use up some of his time, thinking "hey, I deserve this". The day after I felt stupid - should have just let the guy go, but instead he was there, standing sober with his poker face, and I was blabbering shit faced how many times I saw them live, how many albums I have and what not. If the roles had changed, I would have smacked myself in the fuckin face. This guy is a Mother Theresa of meeting with fans. And yet, it's fans to turn against him.

Thankfully, when DJ Ashba joined the band, he followed suit and was also open to interact with fans. I hope it stays that way with both new guitarists. It's a fuckin minimum, if you ask me.



Now, finally.

I'm fucking sick of AFD too
BBF did right to leave this band to seek personal fulfillment - he is an artist, unlike some

I'll use a quick argument here. I live in Europe. I saw GNR live five times in four different countries. I saw Slash too, twice in my country, and I saw Adler. I traveled approx 2'500 miles to see Adler live, bikoz he didn't tour in central / eastern europe. And guess what. All those shows had one thing in common - they all played Appetite to the hilt. Up to fuckin ten songs from one album. Even when Slash played the same country twice in the space of two years, he still tortured us with AFD. Sure it's a crowd pleaser for sunday rockers, but maybe it's just me but I'm fuckin sick of this album. I fuckin hate it at times. GNR had so many side projects, and no matter who you see from the original squad, they shove AFD like they shove dicks up groupies asses. That's not what I call being an artist - piggy riding one fuckin album for your entire career. Creating side projects with random people just to have one more chance to hit the road and play AFD songs anyway.
Think of yourself spending 9 years of your live staying loyal to a band, and all you get is a "touring member" patch. Not a SINGLE song written. And those were 9 active years, not the Paul Tobias years, which means you had to leave home, miss your family, leave friends behind to play somebody else's songs and answer drunk tweets.
If BBF can't stand playing AFD for another 10 years - I get that bikoz I can't listen to it either. If I were him, I'd much rather play something else too.



For those out there, who say BBF sucks bikoz they dont like his style of playing - opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. We all are entitled to our opinions. As long as it is said "I don't like that kinda playing", it's all fine. But I think the moment you say "he can't play" you should prove to us that you are a guitar expert to cast the first stone - get a video camera, get a guitar and record yourself playing better than he does. I than will believe you, but until then the "I hate BBF bikoz he can't play" argument won't stand.

Care to join?

[Rovim]

[dalsh327]

No one joined GNR looking for respect, even back to when they were formed. Ron talked about what persuaded him to give up what he had going on at the time, but even Tommy initially laughed at the thought of joining GNR, no one really took it seriously until they were in the room doing those songs. If they wanted to go where the money was at, Richard would be the first to tell us he'd still be backing pop stars, they trot hm out for a few solos for 5 minutes of "work", play the same exact thing night after night and makes a nice chunk of money off the tour.

[gnr5]

Without AFD there would be no GNR, Bumblefuck, etc etc. He didn't participate in any of the albums and plays AFD material like it is his.

[Johnny Drama]

Until your Appetite tirade, I'll give you everything. ?

[jekylhyde]

Bumble rocks!

[Słash]

Slash and Adler contributed to AFD, thats why they play songs from that album, no hate against Ron and its good he left Axl's band, but it seems now days his setlist compromises of songs more of AFD and illusions rather than CD or his solo albums.

[maynard]

hahaha what a story Mark!

[IZZYISGNR]

BBF is not good.

[Powerage5]

BBF is not good.

You can not like Bumblefoot, whether his personality or his style of playing. But you cannot objectively say he is not a "good" guitarist. And if you're going to try and make a statement like that, it would carry a lot more credence if you used more than four words.

[Dr. Who]

I would say BBF is good at what he does: Shred based guitar playing, but that he didn't fit in GN'R (even "new" GN'R) as he is not at all an emotive player. Whereas Bucket could be both emotive and technical, Bumblefoot simply doesn't do that bluesy sound well at all and that's part and parcel of any iteration of GN'R. Even the riffs and licks he added here and there - say for example to Chinese Democracy (the song) weren't really up to par with the other players.

[maynard]

BBF is skilled, talented, a true master at his instrument and yet he's yet to write a song that doesn't bore me. It's weird, really tried to like him when he joined Axl's band. Buckethead repeats a lot of his riffs, licks and patterns and sounds much more interesting to me. It's funny how music touches us so differently.

Ron seems to be a good guy. The way he's handling his departure is not his greatest moment. I don't know what kind of deal he has made with Axl's band though.

I couldn't care less if he plays lots of GNR on his shows, if he promotes himself as a GNR guitarist (the band he joined is not even GNR), etc. He's a footnote in music's history, and in Axl's efforts history as well. He probably doesn't regret joining Axl's band but I'm pretty it pisses him off to see he was in a solo project for 8 years covering Slash's song while waiting for the chance to make music with his co-workers and add (fake) GNR to his curriculum.

[Dr. Who]

The thing is, Bucket can pretty much do anything musically. Any subgenre of rock he can probably handle. Being in Axl's band probably bored him even on a musical level when you think about it. Bucket has a mystique and a unique persona and aura about him that makes him pretty fascinating. He's the kind of guy that can give you an epic '70s style solo (see TWAT) probably without much effort.

Bumble, while a nice guy in some ways, always struck me as very generic - lacking any mystique or charisma that is essential for a lead guitarist. He also comes off as quite dramatic and passive aggressive; beyond that, musically, he's very much a one trick pony - generic shed metal. He's the kind of guy I'd imagine teaching kids at a guitar shop much easier than I'd imagine him being the lead guy in a major rock band. He just doesn't have that 'it' factor that the great lead guitarists like Jimmy Page, Slash, Joe Perry, Mick Taylor, etc had/have.

[downzy]

Moved this to Civil War to allow for a less moderated debate.

[Silent Jay]

[Chewbacca]

Well, that's what happens to great albums. We listen to them so much, we get sick of them, It's life's greatest tragedy, really.

[auad]

In this post I want to outline the reasons in favor of Bumblefoot in, shall I say, the heated argument between him and the band.

The general outcome of this post is to underline that he deserves a lot more respects than he now gets.

I believe the reasons are not subjective, and exclude arguments such as "so cute", "pretty cool" or "the best".

This post should serve as a stimulant for a following discussion. It should work the best for open minded people. In the shadow of changes within the Guns N'Roses band, it is a good moment to update our retrospective view of things.

So to summarize my whole ided beforehand:

1. BBF deserves a lot more respect in GNR history than he seems to get

2. BBF shows other musicians how to deal with fans

3. His decision to leave GNR is a sign of being creative, like an artist should

4. fuckin bury Appetite already

I should start with saying that BBF changed the face of GNR - and hopefully, forever.

He was the first member of this band to acknowledge fans - and did a great job of it.

The band notorious for ignoring its fans finally got a musician who stood level with and one on one with the fans.

If you ever spent 10 hours doing a banner to welcome GNR in your country (sometimes for the first time ever) during their world tour, then arrived at the venue early morning of the show, waited around in the scorching sun to make sure to be the first in line when the gates are opened, and then stood another 10 hours in the first row, holding your banner, not going to the bathroom or to get a cold drink or a burrito to eat, clinching to that fuckin fence and making sure when the show starts 5 hours later than the ticket says (usually around midnite), and then wave your banner - if the was ever any one person to give you any kind of notice from the stage for your work and efford - it was Bumblefoot and Bumblefoot only. Who else? Buckethead?

Same goes for writing those 'will you marry me?' banners. BBF held it up for these girlfriends to see, during the GNR set. Now, that's some memories in the making right there.

I have never been to a GNR meet and greet, so I there's a certain limit to which I can be held realiable here, but still, I have seen thousands of meet and greet photos over the years, and all of them can be easily categorized into two groups:

- a pack of mannequins stands there clueless next to a group of middle-aged-crisis fans, totally outta the place

- a pack of mannequins stands there clueless next to a group of middle-aged-crisis fans, totally outta the place + Bumblefoot doing or at least trying to do something funny, unique or special for you, so you have something to show for the thousand bucks or however much it is you paid for them to pretend to care about you for a second. Such unique or specials things include pointing to the writing on your t-shirt, as in "I agree with that guy", or some other kind of nice gesture acknowledging your presence in the room. It's cool in my book. Even if some strike back "it's only BBF, he ain't no Slash", I still say the best you can get is take a picture home with you and next time you go to a bar, show these chicks and pricks that you had a picture taken with "that guy from GNR".

Up next, I think it was Rio 2010 when a GNR concert was cancelled. While Ashba was drunk and locked up in his suitcase, as he often boasted about during the interviews, and Tommy was drunk out of the fuckin loop, it was Bumblefoot who took his guitar, went outside the hotel and had an "acoustic impromptu" show with the fans (for a lack of a better word). Hanging around with them, singing songs, doing what ever monkey tricks they wanted him to do. Had it been me travelling a long distance to a show that got cancelled, taking time off work, going thru the hassle that only concert goes know, it would have meant the world to me that my effort was acknowledged, and even more so while all the other band memembers were in the same hotel and didn't give a shit to walk out, getting fat in their cozy, warm five star rooms with their mini bars. Fuck that.

And should I mention twitter? While Axl twitts fuck all and Matt talks shit about dolphins, over the years BBF has replied to as many of our stupid messages as he could. For me the best argument in here is that I created a twitter account to follow the band more easily - and the next time I logged on it I got a message that BBF follows me. And it came to me as even a bigger surprize bikoz for one, I didn't even ask him to, and two - I didn't even tweet shit! No messages, no posts, zero activity, nada. I swear to God.

I don't want to play band members against each other, but just to show you by comparison, Richard Fortus won't answer a tweet to save his life.

Izzy's interaction with the fans?

Remember how in 2012 there was a voting regarding who should enter the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame? It was a close one between RHCP and GNR, and you could vote once an hour. Now, I went thru some much trouble to vote as often as I could, setting those alarm clocks every hour to remember to do it - I don't even know why, I just thought RNR HOF is serious business. Not to mention bugging friends to vote too. And don't tell me some of you didn't just as well. And Izzy didn't even show up to collect the award. It's thanks to people like me and you that he is a Hall of Famer, which basically means that his music will still be played on the radio for the next few years and the checks will keep coming. So as far as that goes, in my book "Where's Izzy?" changes into "Fuck Izzy!".

Message to butt-hutters : yeah, I love his solo discography too, I didn't even mention that so relax.

A lot of people root for Robin to come back to the band now. It was especially clear to see during the 2006 tour - a few, far and between, people would every now and then have a picture taken with Robin - nobody knows how, just somehow, maybe by accident or by some heavy stalking. They would post it here or on HTGTH, and worldwide masturbation would being.

- aw ma gawd, Robin exists off stage too?

- aw ma gawd, #Robin Finck Starts Now

I was one of those people too, whenever I saw someone else take a picture with Robin, I'd feel the same feeling of excitement and thrill when people drop the word "THE VAULT" here. Is this something you would call interaction with fans? And as much as I love his style of playing and I know he is an artist, Robin Finck-the-GNR-member is a fuckin mannequin, not much more than that. He doesn't exist before the show and he doesn't exist after the show. He never did interviews, no videos, and once he had a website that had pretty much nothing on it. His only purpose was to stand on stage for two hours and play and then dissapear.

Again, butt-hutters - I love Robin, I'm just objectively sayin as far as acknowledging that YOU AND ME exist, BBF fucked Robin in the ass like they fuck on the discovery channel

It's a little different with Buckethead, bikoz with him it's an open and fair game - it is his identity and he must remain a certain character. And he does a great job of it bikoz being, what, 25 years in the business and still nobody knows jackshit about him. That's different. That's not because he neglects people. He makes it a lot more interesting.

I will now compare Axl to Bumblefoot and focus on one little fact - being patient with people. While Axl is known for throwing fans out of the shows, abusing them verbally or even hitting them - Bumblefoot had to put up with TONS more shit than Axl, and NEVER lost temper.

I for one met BBF once, and was quite drunk while so, doing the drunken talk just to use up some of his time, thinking "hey, I deserve this". The day after I felt stupid - should have just let the guy go, but instead he was there, standing sober with his poker face, and I was blabbering shit faced how many times I saw them live, how many albums I have and what not. If the roles had changed, I would have smacked myself in the fuckin face. This guy is a Mother Theresa of meeting with fans. And yet, it's fans to turn against him.

Thankfully, when DJ Ashba joined the band, he followed suit and was also open to interact with fans. I hope it stays that way with both new guitarists. It's a fuckin minimum, if you ask me.

Now, finally.

I'm fucking sick of AFD too

BBF did right to leave this band to seek personal fulfillment - he is an artist, unlike some

I'll use a quick argument here. I live in Europe. I saw GNR live five times in four different countries. I saw Slash too, twice in my country, and I saw Adler. I traveled approx 2'500 miles to see Adler live, bikoz he didn't tour in central / eastern europe. And guess what. All those shows had one thing in common - they all played Appetite to the hilt. Up to fuckin ten songs from one album. Even when Slash played the same country twice in the space of two years, he still tortured us with AFD. Sure it's a crowd pleaser for sunday rockers, but maybe it's just me but I'm fuckin sick of this album. I fuckin hate it at times. GNR had so many side projects, and no matter who you see from the original squad, they shove AFD like they shove dicks up groupies asses. That's not what I call being an artist - piggy riding one fuckin album for your entire career. Creating side projects with random people just to have one more chance to hit the road and play AFD songs anyway.

Think of yourself spending 9 years of your live staying loyal to a band, and all you get is a "touring member" patch. Not a SINGLE song written. And those were 9 active years, not the Paul Tobias years, which means you had to leave home, miss your family, leave friends behind to play somebody else's songs and answer drunk tweets.

If BBF can't stand playing AFD for another 10 years - I get that bikoz I can't listen to it either. If I were him, I'd much rather play something else too.

For those out there, who say BBF sucks bikoz they dont like his style of playing - opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. We all are entitled to our opinions. As long as it is said "I don't like that kinda playing", it's all fine. But I think the moment you say "he can't play" you should prove to us that you are a guitar expert to cast the first stone - get a video camera, get a guitar and record yourself playing better than he does. I than will believe you, but until then the "I hate BBF bikoz he can't play" argument won't stand.

Care to join?

Great post bro.

Tanx.

[Silent Jay]

Some real truth here.

Bumblefoot was definitely one of my favorite member of GN'R. And the guy filled Bucket shoes.

Spent some fun times enjoying his livestreams, workshops... He teached me some much on how to play and other things.

[DR DOOM]

I think Ron's a very talented guitarist who writes and performs music (his own) that I find tasteless and completely uninteresting.

LOVE his instrumental Don't Cry from KROQ 2006 (possibly my fave version of that song) and I like how he at least appeared like he wanted to make things happen with GNR.