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SoulMonster

Vikings are awesome

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I wanted to add some trivia to a discussion @Kasanova King and I had about vikings and the discovery of America a while ago, but couldn't remember where that thread was, so instead I decided to start this new thread where we can gather all viking-related discussions.

I am reading a fictional novel now, set to the 15 century, and in this novel the characters, who are everyday people, actually talk about Vinland. This doesn't prove anything, sure, but at least it shows that the author, who probably did a bit of research for her book, one would hope, thought it reasonable that people back in those days could be aware of the Norse colony called Vinland. Sure, they had no idea it was part of a huge continent, and probably just considered it another arctic island like Greenland and Iceland, but still, it was there.

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There was also the 1958 Technicolour swashbuckler, The Vikings, starring Kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh. I believe it was filmed in Norway. I like the way Soul is rather proud of them for anti-Christian activity, as if Norse polytheism is any less ''place preferred disparaging atheist insult''. 

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5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There was also the 1958 Technicolour swashbuckler, The Vikings, starring Kirk Douglas, Tony Curtis and Janet Leigh. I believe it was filmed in Norway. I like the way Soul is rather proud of them for anti-Christian activity, as if Norse polytheism is any less ''place preferred disparaging atheist insult''. 

What a coincidence, I just posted about the Norse pantheon in the religions thread.

Believing in gods is nonsense, now and ever, sure, but if you are going to do that, if you are going to have to believe in supernatural creatures, then you might as well find a religion that offers nothing but fun and explanations and some consolations too, and stay away from the boring stuck-up religions that focus on sin and grief and inhibitions and all that stuff.

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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

What a coincidence, I just posted about the Norse pantheon in the religions thread.

Believing in gods is nonsense, now and ever, sure, but if you are going to do that, if you are going to have to believe in supernatural creatures, then you might as well find a religion that offers nothing but fun and explanations and some consolations too, and stay away from the boring stuck-up religions that focus on sin and grief and inhibitions and all that stuff.

Norse polytheism, its deities and stories, was followed by the pre-Christian Germanic nations with all of the seriousness that Judaeo-Christianity is followed by its adherents today. It was not a 'play thing', and I fail to see how it obtains an atheistic exoneration here! 

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Personally I think the Vikings were interesting.  But since Anything Goes is full of Liberal/Leftist nonsense when dealing with history...I'll put this out there...

The Vikings committed tons of genocide against the people they conquered....how can you say they were "cool"?  They were no better than Colonists...probably worse in many regards... as when the Vikings slaughtered entire groups of people, they did it intentionally. 

Edited by Kasanova King

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2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Personally I think the Vikings were pretty cool.  But since Anything Goes is full of stuff I don't agree with I'm going to be bitter about it.

:lol:

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3 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Personally I think the Vikings were interesting.  But since Anything Goes is full of Liberal/Leftist nonsense when dealing with history...I'll put this out there...

The Vikings committed tons of genocide against the people they conquered....how can you say they were "cool"?  They were no better than Colonists...probably worse in many regards... as when the Vikings slaughtered entire groups of people, they did it intentionally. 

Indeed, and there has been a movement in historical circles since the '90s to political correcterise the Vikings and emphasis the fact that they were ''great seafarers'' and ''boat engineers'' (all true). A good example of this is York's Jorvik centre, https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk/

Simon Schama attacks this a bit in his A History of Britain (volume one). No amount of nautical skills can disguise the fact that it was rape and pillage, across European coastlines. Many monasteries, including priceless artifacts and manuscripts, were stolen/destroyed. 

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1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Norse polytheism, its deities and stories, was followed by the pre-Christian Germanic nations with all of the seriousness that Judaeo-Christianity is followed by its adherents today. It was not a 'play thing', and I fail to see how it obtains an atheistic exoneration here! 

For the reason that people realise now that it was bullshit and can just enjoy the silly stories. Christianity hasn't quite reached that realisation just yet. 

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30 minutes ago, Dazey said:

For the reason that people realise now that it was bullshit and can just enjoy the silly stories. Christianity hasn't quite reached that realisation just yet. 

Not that I agree with how you expressed your sentiments but for sake of argument: not in the middle ages. Or to put it another way, a flotilla of long boats attacking a monastery is, one set of religious Nordic polytheists attacking a set of religious Christian monotheists, the common denominator being 'religious'.

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I dont know much about Vikings and Norse Mythology.  For those who do, does Iggy Pops song American Valhalla portray a fair comparison to the original concept of "Valhalla"?  Is he appropriating it or is he more or less correctly applying the concept to his negative view of (at least some aspects of) American culture?

 

 

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@soon cultural appropriating is like when aussie outright lies and says oh yeah *insert NZ thing here* is actually australian. Which is irritating af. They're like our sibling we love a lot but is also kind of a cunt lol.

Using someone else's culture for things like art is not appropriation, that's inspiration.

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45 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

@soon cultural appropriating is like when aussie outright lies and says oh yeah *insert NZ thing here* is actually australian. Which is irritating af. They're like our sibling we love a lot but is also kind of a cunt lol.

Using someone else's culture for things like art is not appropriation, that's inspiration.

uh, I think you are maybe reading me as making an accusation of "Cultural appropriation?"  Im not.

The word appropriate is none the less the correct term to ask my question.  Im curious how accurately he transposed the concept to the US condition.  

Edited by soon
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3 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

The Vikings committed tons of genocide against the people they conquered....how can you say they were "cool"?  

I didn't, I said they are "awesome".

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4 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Norse polytheism, its deities and stories, was followed by the pre-Christian Germanic nations with all of the seriousness that Judaeo-Christianity is followed by its adherents today. It was not a 'play thing', and I fail to see how it obtains an atheistic exoneration here! 

As far as religions go, the Norse pantheon was as close to a "play thing" as it gets. The Norse gods were basically humans with superpowers. No all-powerful, all-good shit, just flawed superheroes who constantly fought, laughed and made love to each other. People could relate to their gods. They could hate them. They could love them. They could worship and sacrifice to them. Or they could try to hide things from them. And all off this (well, a lot of it) was later retold by Snorre and others in highly entertaining stories.

I don't exonerate the belief in Norse gods, as I said earlier it is still nonsense. But nonsense that makes a little bit more sense, and nonsense that is full of life and humor and love. 

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1 hour ago, soon said:

I dont know much about Vikings and Norse Mythology.  For those who do, does Iggy Pops song American Valhalla portray a fair comparison to the original concept of "Valhalla"?  Is he appropriating it or is he more or less correctly applying the concept to his negative view of (at least some aspects of) American culture?

 

 

The lyrics doesn't say much about Valhalla, really, other than it is a place a fighter wants to get to in the afterlife. And that is accurate; vikings wanted to get to Odin's Hall, to drink and fight in eternal glory. Only the best fighters were honored by coming to Valhalla, and only those who dies in battle.  

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

Those horned helmets were cool as fuck... #HistoricalAccuracy ;) .

Okay, that attempt at humor means we are putting Scotland on top of our hit list for our Second Coming. Expect longships with motors, harnessed polar bears and Rape & Pillage 2.0 technology. 

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2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The lyrics doesn't say much about Valhalla, really, other than it is a place a fighter wants to get to in the afterlife. And that is accurate; vikings wanted to get to Odin's Hall, to drink and fight in eternal glory. Only the best fighters were honored by coming to Valhalla, and only those who dies in battle.  

Thanks.  So him comparing working class life in America to a top fighter dying in war is a pretty serious allegation against class struggle in US, I guess?  I wasnt sure if there were class implications for who warriors were back in those times maybe?

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17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

As far as religions go, the Norse pantheon was as close to a "play thing" as it gets. The Norse gods were basically humans with superpowers. No all-powerful, all-good shit, just flawed superheroes who constantly fought, laughed and made love to each other. People could relate to their gods. They could hate them. They could love them. They could worship and sacrifice to them. Or they could try to hide things from them. And all off this (well, a lot of it) was later retold by Snorre and others in highly entertaining stories.

I don't exonerate the belief in Norse gods, as I said earlier it is still nonsense. But nonsense that makes a little bit more sense, and nonsense that is full of life and humor and love. 

Yes I know this. Polytheism is something else I learnt at uni, albeit Graeco-Romano. 

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1 hour ago, SoulMonster said:

I didn't, I said they are "awesome".

So you believe a group of genocidal barbarians  are awesome?   Yet you're very critical of Colonists? 

I guess when speaking of your own ancestors, they're awesome.  When speaking of other people's ancestors, they're genocidal, evil people.  Sort of racist, don't you think? 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Personally I think the Vikings were interesting.  But since Anything Goes is full of Liberal/Leftist nonsense when dealing with history...I'll put this out there...

The Vikings committed tons of genocide against the people they conquered....how can you say they were "cool"?  They were no better than Colonists...probably worse in many regards... as when the Vikings slaughtered entire groups of people, they did it intentionally. 

Exactly. That's what every race of people did when they discovered America.  They raped and destroyed villages and people and children too. Luckily, they weren't smart enough to stay in America or we would all be Vikings.  the British and Pilgrims weren't any better.

Unfortunately that's what happens when armies come to claim different lands. Every race of people have done it and are still doing it.

I'm sure the Vikings have contributed some things to the world, but they weren't very nice about it.

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11 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Exactly. That's what every race of people did when they discovered America.  They raped and destroyed villages and people and children too. Luckily, they weren't smart enough to stay in America or we would all be Vikings.  the British and Pilgrims weren't any better.

Unfortunately that's what happens when armies come to claim different lands. Every race of people have done it and are still doing it.

I'm sure the Vikings have contributed some things to the world, but they weren't very nice about it.

North America was initially colonised by a mixture of crown appointed private adventurers and religious exiles, and often, at least in the early stages, the colonists were weaker than the natives.

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