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The Blues & There Was A Time 2001 Discussion **NO LINKS**

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5 minutes ago, Sergeanur said:

Search "guns n roses you're crazy rare" on YouTube and it's the first video. Also, LQ version of this was on Niven's Cornshucker CD (LIES recording session), so it is far from being "one of the rarest files out there".

Finally!!! the wait is over after 5 yrs.
tks dude.

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I'd prefer 2001 The blues over what's called Street of Dreams. It sounds more authentic as to what Guns was during that time. 

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Posted (edited)

To me it goes a little something like this:

The Blues 2001 > Street Of Dreams Album Version

There Was a Time 2001 > There was a Time Album Version

Chinese Democracy 2002 > Chinese Democracy Album Version

Better 2002 > Better Final Version

Catcher in the Rye Album Version > Catcher in the Rye (Brian May)

IRS Album Version > IRS 2002 and 2006 leak

If The World Album Version > If the World 2002  (But Overall a very weak song due to Mickey's vocals)

Prostitute Album Version > Prostitute 2002

Madagascar 2001 > Madagascar Album Version

Oh My God 1999 > Oh My God Bumblefoot (But we're yet to hear a proper mix of the 1999 version though)

Silkworms 2001 > Silkworms Bumblefoot (We have only heard the intro to this version, however it's safe to say it's better because it has the Chorus, and won't be much different than the one we have.)

For those saying that this intro to Silkworms 2001 is not real, I recommend for your to check Silkworms HOB 2001. Don't believe me? Check it out (It's more audible on imsorry's mix of the HOB version, but unfortunately someone deleted it, so I'll have to use the HOB recording that was already out there as an example), but if you still have doubts, please check the intro on the HOB Pro shot video:

 

1:55:33

 

 

Edited by Propaganda

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so finally I got time to listen to The Blues a bit more. I liked it, really much, and indeed maybe this is the best version of them all. sounds exactly like they played it in 2001-2 live. I wonder how they managed to turn this great song to the "meh" album version. I've always loved The Blues back in the day, but the album version makes me uninterested, I have no idea why. this one finally fixed the problem. I'm back in late 2002 and I love this song :)

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as for TWAT, I prefer the 2006 version probably. anyway, have you guys noticed that both these demos completely lack Buckethead? or at least it sounds so, no trace of his soloing, no guitar virtuoso stuff. 

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Blues is my favorite version of the song. Have yet to hear TWAT but still looking for that one. Still can't believe what's happening here

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"Better 2002 > Better Final Version

If The World Album Version > If the World 2002  (But Overall a very weak song due to Mickey's vocals)

Prostitute Album Version > Prostitute 2002"

wait, what?
Prostitute, better n if the world from 2002?

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1 minute ago, NeonKinight said:

"Better 2002 > Better Final Version

If The World Album Version > If the World 2002  (But Overall a very weak song due to Mickey's vocals)

Prostitute Album Version > Prostitute 2002"

wait, what?
Prostitute, better n if the world from 2002?

Is Better 2002 the one that leaked in 2006 with the instrumental? Also is Prostitute 2002 the Antiquiet leak?

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24 minutes ago, ApacheChief42 said:

Is Better 2002 the one that leaked in 2006 with the instrumental? Also is Prostitute 2002 the Antiquiet leak?

That's the only leak we have of Prostitute, so I would assume so. But I've never heard it (Or Better or ITW for that matter) referred to as 2002 versions...

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1 minute ago, Powerage5 said:

That's the only leak we have of Prostitute, so I would assume so. But I've never heard it (Or Better or ITW for that matter) referred to as 2002 versions...

yup. the Antiquiet leaks were leaked in 2008, but they have Bumblefoot all over them, so they can hardly be described as "2002 versions". they're definitely "something between 2006-2008 versions". 

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Posted (edited)

If you take Skwerl's story as gospel, his contact swiped a CD from Jimmy Iovine's office in roughly June 2007.

Andy Wallace worked on the project in 2006-2007.

Axl was not wholly satisfied with the mixes, apparently, so Bumblefoot and Frank were added in February 2007 and him and Caram remixed the record in Fall 2007. The album was done and being negotiated on a year before it's release in November 2008.

It would be interesting to know how much Andy mixed or if this 10 song CD was a try-out of sorts.

It also begs the question of who mixed the album in 2006 that was played at Axl's house. 

Edited by Wagszilla

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Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2018 at 7:20 AM, Wagszilla said:

If you take Skwerl's story as gospel, his contact swiped a CD from Jimmy Iovine's office in roughly June 2007.

Andy Wallace worked on the project in 2006-2007.

Axl was not wholly satisfied with the mixes, apparently, so Bumblefoot and Frank were added in February 2007 and him and Caram remixed the record in Fall 2007. The album was done and being negotiated on a year before it's release in November 2008.

It would be interesting to know how much Andy mixed or if this 10 song CD was a try-out of sorts.

It also begs the question of who mixed the album in 2006 that was played at Axl's house. 

hmmm... interesting. so there are a few "waves" of demos we already have. 

 

(Big Daddy and End of Days released at some point around here, unsure if the "1999 demos" are of earlier data)

"1999 demos" - IRS, TWAT, CITR + probably "Checkmate" + maybe also Atlas Shrugged - pre-BH era, but probably the year might be up to 2001, TWAT here is not that different from the RTB mix that leaked recently

"2001 RTB mixes" - Maddy, TWAT, The Blues - no trace of Buckethead, so those might come from 1999-2000, altough mixes might be newer, up to 2002 maybe

"2002 Boston/Albany promo" - ChiDem, Maddy, The Blues - first very prominent guitar work by Buckethead

"IRS Piazza recording" - it went on air in August 2003, so it can't be newer than this. I don't remember if it in fact is the very same track as "1999 demo" or "early 2006 leaked demo"

"early 2006 leaked demos" - IRS, Better, two versions of TWAT + instrumentals - obviously these can't be newer than february 2006, and have Buckethead all over them - so I'd say recorded 2001-2003 or early 2004 at most (Bucket left for good in March 2004)

"2013 Bumblefoot guitar demos" - Going Down, OMG, Silkworms + probably Atlas Shrugged - the demos are older (anything between 2000 and 2005, but sound like 2001), Bumble's guitar is around May or June 2006

"Better early 2007 leaked demo" - unsure if this was the part of the next bunch, it's presumably the same as used in 2006 Harley Davidson commercial

"2007 leaked demos" - Maddy, ChiDem, The Blues, Better, TWAT - these still don't feature Bumblefoot/Frank, so probably they are newer mixes recorded in similar years as the ones before

"Antiquiet leaks 2008" - the same songs as a year before + Better - Bumblefoot is prominent there, so these must be newer than say May 2006 - of course only the Bumblefoot's and Frank's parts may be older, but the mixes must be recent.

"pre-ChiDem leaks" - Rhiad, Prostitute, ITW - probably older mixes, because they have no Bumblefoot on them, or he doesn't play prominently there (?)

"Chicken Binge" - Shackler's Revenge - very similar to album version, so probably recent mix

"Better by Bumblefoot" - recorded during Barefoot EP sessions, that is late summer or fall 2008

(album released here)

"Better by DJ Ashba" - probably recorded in late 2009 before the tour started

"Brain remixes" - Better Gone, BITW, Shackler, ITW, TIL, probably also Sorry - Brain talked about having remixed Shackler as early as April 2009, but it seems the work was gradual, until like mid 2010. Better Gone is using acoustic guitar parts from Bumblefoot's version and probably the same vocal line was used.

 

your thoughts? I might be wrong in many ideas.

 

 

Edited by zombux
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, zombux said:

hmmm... interesting. so there are a few "waves" of demos we already have. 

 

"1999 demos" - IRS, TWAT, CITR - pre-BH era, but probably the year might be up to 2001, TWAT here is not that different from the RTB mix that leaked recently

"2001 RTB mixes" - Maddy, TWAT, The Blues - no trace of Buckethead, so those might come from 1999-2000, altough mixes might be newer, up to 2002 maybe

"2002 Boston/Albany promo" - ChiDem, Maddy, The Blues - first very prominent guitar work by Buckethead

"IRS Piazza recording" - it went on air in August 2003, so it can't be newer than this. I don't remember if it in fact is the very same track as "1999 demo" or "early 2006 leaked demo"

"early 2006 leaked demos" - IRS, Better, two versions of TWAT + instrumentals - obviously these can't be newer than february 2006, and have Buckethead all over them - so I'd say recorded 2001-2003 or early 2004 at most (Bucket left for good in March 2004)

"Checkmate leak" - Jackie Chan - leaked in May 2006, it sounds much older, but it might also be due to bad quality

"2013 Bumblefoot guitar demos" - Going Down, OMG, Silkworms - the demos are older (anything between 2000 and 2005, but sound like 2001), Bumble's guitar is around May or June 2006

"Better early 2007 leaked demo" - unsure if this was the part of the next bunch, it's presumably the same as used in 2006 Harley Davidson commercial

"2007 leaked demos" - Maddy, ChiDem, The Blues, Better, TWAT - these still don't feature Bumblefoot/Frank, so probably they are newer mixes recorded in similar years as the ones before

"Antiquiet leaks 2008" - the same songs as a year before + Better - Bumblefoot is prominent there, so these must be newer than say May 2006 - of course only the Bumblefoot's and Frank's parts may be older, but the mixes must be recent.

"pre-ChiDem leaks" - Rhiad, Prostitute, ITW - probably older mixes, because they have no Bumblefoot on them, or he doesn't play prominently there (?)

"Chicken Binge" - Shackler's Revenge - very similar to album version, so probably recent mix

"Better by Bumblefoot" - recorded during Barefoot EP sessions, that is late summer or fall 2008

(album released here)

"Better by DJ Ashba" - probably recorded in late 2009 before the tour started

"Brain remixes" - Better Gone, BITW, Shackler, ITW, TIL, probably also Sorry - Brain talked about having remixed Shackler as early as April 2009, but it seems the work was gradual, until like mid 2010. Better Gone is using acoustic guitar parts from Bumblefoot's version and probably the same vocal line was used.

 

your thoughts? I might be wrong in many ideas.

 

 

This seems right to me. But can you clarify, is the "Better early 2007 leaked demo" the same as the Better 2006 demo? It's the only one on this list that I've never heard before. Also, the IRS Piazza recording is the same as 1999 IRS.

Edited by ApacheChief42

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15 minutes ago, zombux said:

hmmm... interesting. so there are a few "waves" of demos we already have. 

 

"1999 demos" - IRS, TWAT, CITR - pre-BH era, but probably the year might be up to 2001, TWAT here is not that different from the RTB mix that leaked recently

"2001 RTB mixes" - Maddy, TWAT, The Blues - no trace of Buckethead, so those might come from 1999-2000, altough mixes might be newer, up to 2002 maybe

"2002 Boston/Albany promo" - ChiDem, Maddy, The Blues - first very prominent guitar work by Buckethead

"IRS Piazza recording" - it went on air in August 2003, so it can't be newer than this. I don't remember if it in fact is the very same track as "1999 demo" or "early 2006 leaked demo"

"early 2006 leaked demos" - IRS, Better, two versions of TWAT + instrumentals - obviously these can't be newer than february 2006, and have Buckethead all over them - so I'd say recorded 2001-2003 or early 2004 at most (Bucket left for good in March 2004)

"Checkmate leak" - Jackie Chan - leaked in May 2006, it sounds much older, but it might also be due to bad quality

"2013 Bumblefoot guitar demos" - Going Down, OMG, Silkworms - the demos are older (anything between 2000 and 2005, but sound like 2001), Bumble's guitar is around May or June 2006

"Better early 2007 leaked demo" - unsure if this was the part of the next bunch, it's presumably the same as used in 2006 Harley Davidson commercial

"2007 leaked demos" - Maddy, ChiDem, The Blues, Better, TWAT - these still don't feature Bumblefoot/Frank, so probably they are newer mixes recorded in similar years as the ones before

"Antiquiet leaks 2008" - the same songs as a year before + Better - Bumblefoot is prominent there, so these must be newer than say May 2006 - of course only the Bumblefoot's and Frank's parts may be older, but the mixes must be recent.

"pre-ChiDem leaks" - Rhiad, Prostitute, ITW - probably older mixes, because they have no Bumblefoot on them, or he doesn't play prominently there (?)

"Chicken Binge" - Shackler's Revenge - very similar to album version, so probably recent mix

"Better by Bumblefoot" - recorded during Barefoot EP sessions, that is late summer or fall 2008

(album released here)

"Better by DJ Ashba" - probably recorded in late 2009 before the tour started

"Brain remixes" - Better Gone, BITW, Shackler, ITW, TIL, probably also Sorry - Brain talked about having remixed Shackler as early as April 2009, but it seems the work was gradual, until like mid 2010. Better Gone is using acoustic guitar parts from Bumblefoot's version and probably the same vocal line was used.

 

your thoughts? I might be wrong in many ideas.

 

 

Wasn’t Checkmate sourced from the same tape as CITR w/ Brian May?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, zombux said:

hmmm... interesting. so there are a few "waves" of demos we already have. 

your thoughts? I might be wrong in many ideas.

Some tidbits:

  • The chronology of 2000-2002 is sketchy. 
    • We have RTB (2000), Tom Zutaut (2001), and RTB again (2002).
  • I heard it said that Catcher, Atlas, Jackie were on the same tape.
    • Recording session for Brian May was Christmas 1999, Sean was gone shortly thereafter.
  • The Shacklers Revenge is a finished version from Guns camp to record company to Harmonix.
  • I would bet the This I Love / remixes were done in 2010 when Axl was rearing to go 
  • In total, I would put different versions of the album at 7-8 but probably only for the main songs. Who knows about the undercard.
Edited by Wagszilla

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1 minute ago, ApacheChief42 said:

This seems right to me. But can you clarify, is the "Better early 2007 leaked demo" the same as the Better 2006 demo? It's the only one on this list that I've never heard before. Also, the IRS Piazza recording is the same as 1999 IRS.

I vaguely remember that it's different

 

1 minute ago, Grayfox said:

Wasn’t Checkmate sourced from the same tape as CITR w/ Brian May?

the "quality" and overall sound might suggest it, and also it came from the same batch by DJ Razz, yes. there's no other info about it however. I was thinking about including it in the "1999 demos" or not, and decided it to just push somewhere in the day it leaked rather than presumed age. yes, it might be wrong :)

1 minute ago, Wagszilla said:
  • I heard it said that Catcher, Atlas, Jackie were on the same tape.
    • Recording session for Brian May was Christmas 1999, Sean was gone shortly thereafter.

I also heard Atlas was on the same tape provided to BBF in 2006, so there were presumably multiple versions.

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2 minutes ago, zombux said:

I vaguely remember that it's different

 

the "quality" and overall sound might suggest it, and also it came from the same batch by DJ Razz, yes. there's no other info about it however. I was thinking about including it in the "1999 demos" or not, and decided it to just push somewhere in the day it leaked rather than presumed age. yes, it might be wrong :)

I also heard Atlas was on the same tape provided to BBF in 2006, so there were presumably multiple versions.

Yep, we have Robin's, Brians, Buckets, and Bumbles! 

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1 minute ago, zombux said:

I vaguely remember that it's different

 

the "quality" and overall sound might suggest it, and also it came from the same batch by DJ Razz, yes. there's no other info about it however. I was thinking about including it in the "1999 demos" or not, and decided it to just push somewhere in the day it leaked rather than presumed age. yes, it might be wrong :)

It’s certainly hard to pinpoint things properly especially due to the randomness of how it went down. Wagszilla is on to something cause at the time when the original 10sec CITR clip leaked it was stated that there was 3 songs there. I do remember Atlas being claimed and I thought it was said Checkmate was. 

Also I believe the CD Mike got with IRS had 1 other song on it that was never played.

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I edited my original list to include two presumed Atlases and put "Checkmate" together with "1999 demos".

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11 hours ago, zombux said:

as for TWAT, I prefer the 2006 version probably. anyway, have you guys noticed that both these demos completely lack Buckethead? or at least it sounds so, no trace of his soloing, no guitar virtuoso stuff. 

Is that bcos its the 99 Beavan version or they took his stuff off RTB version?

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3 minutes ago, zombux said:

I edited my original list to include two presumed Atlases and put "Checkmate" together with "1999 demos".

Checkmate aka The General aka Jackie Chan?

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3 minutes ago, wasted said:

Is that bcos its the 99 Beavan version or they took his stuff off RTB version?

good thinking. hard to say now. it might indeed be "Beavan era recording" that was later "mixed by RTB". I don't think it's the other case.

 

Just now, wasted said:

Checkmate aka The General aka Jackie Chan?

no, NOT The General. "Checkmate" was a bogus title created by DJ Razz if I remember correctly. in a later chat Axl said the real title is Jackie Chan, and even that one was only a working one.

The General is another song if I remember correctly.

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What do you mean no Buckethead?

It's pretty hard to hear on this new 2001 one but he's certainly on 2000, 2006, 2006 Alt, 2007, 2008, and album unless I'm mistaken.

TWAT was the song Axl was working on to death so it makes sense there's 700 versions. 

 

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