Film Thread

[Pico]

Vicky Cristina Barcelona was a joyous little film.

Anyone got some Woody Allen recommendations aside from Annie Hall and Manhattan?

[Angelica]

Vicky Cristina Barcelona was a joyous little film.

Anyone got some Woody Allen recommendations aside from Annie Hall and Manhattan?

Always! Take the Money and Run, Bananas, Love and Death, Sleeper, Stardust Memories, Zelig, Radio Days, The Purple Rose of Cairo, Hannah and Her Sisters, New York Stories, Crimes and Misdemeanours, Shadows and Fog, Husbands and Wives, Bullets Over Broadway and Match Point. Oh, and Play it Again Sam which he wrote and starred in but didn't direct.

[wasted]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It's entirely possible that is what happened. That's what the title refers too. We don't know whether he was guilty.

I think the person I discussed this with sort of influenced what I thought.

I think we do know what happened. He admitted it.

She tricked him into admitting it, that's why he left? She lied about calling his past employers? So he admitted by pleaing with her, "Haven't you ever done anything wrong?"

Her Doubt was that she had LIED to obtain the "the truth", but deep down she was conflicted because he was really the only one that could or was helping the gay kid.

So her mini-breakdown was like her questioning her faith, she took a step away from the light to pursue what was right?

If there was nothing in his past, then why leave?

She said he had left for these reasons, and he didn't contest it?

[Angelica]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It's entirely possible that is what happened. That's what the title refers too. We don't know whether he was guilty.

I think the person I discussed this with sort of influenced what I thought.

I think we do know what happened. He admitted it.

She tricked him into admitting it, that's why he left? She lied about calling his past employers? So he admitted by pleaing with her, "Haven't you ever done anything wrong?"

Her Doubt was that she had LIED to obtain the "the truth", but deep down she was conflicted because he was really the only one that could or was helping the gay kid.

So her mini-breakdown was like her questioning her faith, she took a step away from the light to pursue what was right?

If there was nothing in his past, then why leave?

She said he had left for these reasons, and he didn't contest it?

We don't know what happened, he never admits to any kind of sexual relationship with the child. That there was something in his past doesn't prove anything, as we're never told or shown what it is. It could have been an age appropriate homosexual relationship, it could be any number of things. The whole point is that it doesn't answer the question. There's no way of knowing for certain, she doesn't know for certain.

[bluesy]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It was more the break in character that got to me, had nada to do with the plot.

I agree. The sudden breakdown was to give the character a sense of vulnerability; to show that she wasn't exactly the heinous witch that we were supposed to loathe throughout the movie. I don't know if it necessarily succeeded in garnering any sympathy for her, but Meryl got one last moment to display her academic chops.

As a whole, the movie was fully engaging and very well-made, but I probably won't be watching it again. Like The House of Sand and Fog, it's almost too frustrating.

[Angelica]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It was more the break in character that got to me, had nada to do with the plot.

I agree. The sudden breakdown was to give the character a sense of vulnerability; to show that she wasn't exactly the heinous witch that we were supposed to loathe throughout the movie. I don't know if it necessarily succeeded in garnering any sympathy for her, but Meryl got one last moment to display her academic chops.

As a whole, the movie was fully engaging and very well-made, but I probably won't be watching it again. Like The House of Sand and Fog, it's almost too frustrating.

I didn't think that the 'heinous witch' thing lasted that long. That assumption is perfectly reasonable for a while, but it gets turned on it's head long before the end. Aside from the astounding strength and grace of the writing (and performances), the way my assumptions were continually pulled out from under me was what I most appreciated about it. The scene with Viola Davis is breathtaking in that capcacity. I can't wait to see it again, writing that strong makes me giddy.

[bluesy]

I didn't think that the 'heinous witch' thing lasted that long. That assumption is perfectly reasonable for a while, but it gets turned on it's head long before the end. Aside from the astounding strength and grace of the writing (and performances), the way my assumptions were continually pulled out from under me was what I most appreciated about it. The scene with Viola Davis is breathtaking in that capcacity. I can't wait to see it again, writing that strong makes me giddy.

I guess that's where you and I differ. I didn't think she had any redeeming value, at all. Even at the end, I wanted to see somebody put one between her eyes. Don't get me wrong, it's probably a testament to the writing and performance, than anything else. I havent hated a character that much since Lester the cop.

[wasted]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It's entirely possible that is what happened. That's what the title refers too. We don't know whether he was guilty.

I think the person I discussed this with sort of influenced what I thought.

I think we do know what happened. He admitted it.

She tricked him into admitting it, that's why he left? She lied about calling his past employers? So he admitted by pleaing with her, "Haven't you ever done anything wrong?"

Her Doubt was that she had LIED to obtain the "the truth", but deep down she was conflicted because he was really the only one that could or was helping the gay kid.

So her mini-breakdown was like her questioning her faith, she took a step away from the light to pursue what was right?

If there was nothing in his past, then why leave?

She said he had left for these reasons, and he didn't contest it?

We don't know what happened, he never admits to any kind of sexual relationship with the child. That there was something in his past doesn't prove anything, as we're never told or shown what it is. It could have been an age appropriate homosexual relationship, it could be any number of things. The whole point is that it doesn't answer the question. There's no way of knowing for certain, she doesn't know for certain.

I think for a Catholic priest to even put a kids vest in his locker is grounds for defrocking. It was also probably covered in booze lol See you in court!

I think you are right. The person who I saw it with called me stupid when I said that. Like I was coming out of left field with it. So I was trying to see it as that. I started to think that this movie had been cut so that he didn't do it so it could get released.

I felt her breakdown was to convince her co-worker not to think anything less of her. As she could be fired for getting wrong.

Ultimately, I don't see the point in a movie that is unresolved around factual occurences. The audience is alienated from it. It was like a Pope mobile version of The Usual Suspects.

If there's a doubt when you know what happened, then that's different but in the end I was just disappointed there wasn't some all American Nun-on-Nun action.

[TheSpecialist]

i can't for the life of me get into michael mann. he's great at what he does. for some reason, i've yet to be moved on a personal level by any of his films. they just seem like really stylish, slickly produced hollywood pageants.

wait... except collateral. i forgot about that one. i remember liking that one way more than i expected.

Mann has a bit of a cold antiseptic touch and his characters I think reflect that mentality. I'd agree with you that more often than not you won't see much warmth or emotion radiated in his films....which is actually why I am such a huge fan of his. I found portions of "Last of the Mohicans" and "Collateral" to be quite moving, particularly the end of "Collateral". I think Mann and Cruise really capture the loneliness of that character perfectly.

[bluesy]

i can't for the life of me get into michael mann. he's great at what he does. for some reason, i've yet to be moved on a personal level by any of his films. they just seem like really stylish, slickly produced hollywood pageants.

wait... except collateral. i forgot about that one. i remember liking that one way more than i expected.

Mann has a bit of a cold antiseptic touch and his characters I think reflect that mentality. I'd agree with you that more often than not you won't see much warmth or emotion radiated in his films....which is actually why I am such a huge fan of his. I found portions of "Last of the Mohicans" and "Collateral" to be quite moving, particularly the end of "Collateral". I think Mann and Cruise really capture the loneliness of that character perfectly.

I think it's more a case of Mann not feeling the need to dramatize his stuff. There are emotional scenes in his films; some deeply moving ones, although not exactly in the tradition of most Hollywood fare.

Collateral was nice enough, but it really wasn't on par with his best stuff.

Talking about lonely characters, I think Deniro's Neil McCauley was more of a tragic character than Cruise's Vincent could ever hope to be. Really, I feel it's one of Bob's last great performances. I mean, that scene in the restaurant where he looks around at all of his comrades with their wives and girlfriends, and he realizes how alone he is... I dunno, just something about the way his expression changes there really does it for me.

[gnrfan20]

Watchmen

Just finished watching the movie. Enjoyed it a lot. The ending to me wasn't right and I can't believe Dr. Manhattan would do something like that and kill Rorshac. I understand Adrian was trying to save humanity but at that cost of killing millions. Saved humanity by a very big lie. Film went by so quick because I enjoyed but it felt like Zack had crammed in some stuff so the directors cut is going to be better. This is a kind of film where more is better. Had its funny moments, especially the when Rorshac was in prison and said im not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me. Never laughed at Dr. Manhattans dick showing. So yeah if you haven't seen it go and see it.

[TheSpecialist]

i can't for the life of me get into michael mann. he's great at what he does. for some reason, i've yet to be moved on a personal level by any of his films. they just seem like really stylish, slickly produced hollywood pageants.

wait... except collateral. i forgot about that one. i remember liking that one way more than i expected.

Mann has a bit of a cold antiseptic touch and his characters I think reflect that mentality. I'd agree with you that more often than not you won't see much warmth or emotion radiated in his films....which is actually why I am such a huge fan of his. I found portions of "Last of the Mohicans" and "Collateral" to be quite moving, particularly the end of "Collateral". I think Mann and Cruise really capture the loneliness of that character perfectly.

I think it's more a case of Mann not feeling the need to dramatize his stuff. There are emotional scenes in his films; some deeply moving ones, although not exactly in the tradition of most Hollywood fare.

Collateral was nice enough, but it really wasn't on par with his best stuff.

Talking about lonely characters, I think Deniro's Neil McCauley was more of a tragic character than Cruise's Vincent could ever hope to be. Really, I feel it's one of Bob's last great performances. I mean, that scene in the restaurant where he looks around at all of his comrades with their wives and girlfriends, and he realizes how alone he is... I dunno, just something about the way his expression changes there really does it for me.

Agreed. He definitely seems to be a fan of the minimalist school of thought (Miami Vice seems to take this to an extreme degree with it's superficially drawn characters).

I'm hoping "Public Enemies" is a return to form because like you said, Collateral wasn't up to par with his best and Miami Vice was lousy (with a few memorable sequences).

The Neil McCauley performance is a great one. My favorite sequence in "Heat" is the nighttime meeting between Neil and Edie at his apartment. The way that scene is filmed with the city lights reflecting in the night....it feels almost surreal. Beautiful stuff. Dante Spinotti is a hell of a cinematographer. His work in this movie seems almost inspired by the cinematography in "Year of the Dragon".

[bluesy]

I'm hoping "Public Enemies" is a return to form because like you said, Collateral wasn't up to par with his best and Miami Vice was lousy (with a few memorable sequences).

I'm scared that I'm gonna be disappointed. There are already some bad reviews floating around with complaints about piss-poor quality handheld cams and lousy character development. The trailer started off promising, but about halfway through, I was scratching my head a bit. I guess we'll just have to see in July.

The Neil McCauley performance is a great one. My favorite sequence in "Heat" is the nighttime meeting between Neil and Edie at his apartment. The way that scene is filmed with the city lights reflecting in the night....it feels almost surreal. Beautiful stuff. Dante Spinotti is a hell of a cinematographer. His work in this movie seems almost inspired by the cinematography in "Year of the Dragon".

You're right on the money with the YOTD cinematography comparisons; another gorgeous-looking movie.

[TheSpecialist]

I'm hoping "Public Enemies" is a return to form because like you said, Collateral wasn't up to par with his best and Miami Vice was lousy (with a few memorable sequences).

I'm scared that I'm gonna be disappointed. There are already some bad reviews floating around with complaints about piss-poor quality handheld cams and lousy character development. The trailer started off promising, but about halfway through, I was scratching my head a bit. I guess we'll just have to see in July.

The reviews look 50/50 so far from what I've seen, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. I didn't much care for the trailer either. Bale looks stiff as cardboard and I don't like digital filmmaking (there's something not quite right with it from a visual standpoint. I don't know if I'm biased or not, but I just prefer film). In any case, here's hoping Mann hasn't peaked w/ "The Insider".

What are your thoughts on YOTD btw? I own that film and am obsessed with it's cinematography; that's probably the only reason I even watch it anymore. Rourke and Lone are engaging but I find the storyline a bit trite and the acting of the lead actress atrocious. Cimino is a great director but I think the dodgy script ultimately lets him down here...

Edited March 8, 2009 by TheSpecialist

[ChineseDemocracy2004]

I recently watched In Bruges and Stranger Than Fiction, they had their moments, I also saw 'Watchmen' last night, it was different and probably the longest film i've seen in a long time.

Edited March 8, 2009 by ChineseDemocracy2004

[Black Sabbath]

Watchmen

Just finished watching the movie. Enjoyed it a lot. The ending to me wasn't right and I can't believe Dr. Manhattan would do something like that and kill Rorshac. I understand Adrian was trying to save humanity but at that cost of killing millions. Saved humanity by a very big lie. Film went by so quick because I enjoyed but it felt like Zack had crammed in some stuff so the directors cut is going to be better. This is a kind of film where more is better. Had its funny moments, especially the when Rorshac was in prison and said im not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me. Never laughed at Dr. Manhattans dick showing. So yeah if you haven't seen it go and see it.

Well, Dr. Manhattan didn't actually do it. It was made to look like he did. Up until then, he had no idea what he was actually helping Veidt with. And even though it was upsetting, he had to kill Rorschach. If he didn't, Rorschach was going to go and let people know that Veidt did it and then nuclear war would be right back on track.

And yeah, Rorschach definitely had people laughing at parts.

And I also got tired of seeing Jon's dick.

[B F O G]

My theater laughed everytime Dr Manhatten appeared with his big blue penis...

[Lithium]

Vicky Cristina Barcelona was a joyous little film.

That was such a beautiful film, I'm definitely getting it on DVD.

[dirtylenny]

Rewatched:

Action Jackson (Carl Weathers)

White Dog (Sam Fuller)

Breakout (Charles Bronson)

Breakheart Pass (Charles Bronson)

[bluesy]

What are your thoughts on YOTD btw? I own that film and am obsessed with it's cinematography; that's probably the only reason I even watch it anymore. Rourke and Lone are engaging but I find the storyline a bit trite and the acting of the lead actress atrocious. Cimino is a great director but I think the dodgy script ultimately lets him down here...

It's a decent picture with a surprising amount of repeat value, despite the obvious flaws. John Lone is great and it's a shame that being a visible minority really kills your chances of having any kind of success in Hollywood. I also like the pace, but the news reporter subplot is garbage, as is the way they handled the undercover cop bit. The nightclub scene looks amazing, but the idea of Stanley White just busting his way in and freely dragging the Triad leader into a bathroom is absolute horseshit. That, and the ending doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what to make of Mickey's performance, all things considered. He looks and acts really cool with his black hat and longcoat, sporting the most awesome grey hair you'll ever see, but the story feels kind of empty. Cimino said he was going for that whole role reversal thing with the protagonist being the antihero and the antagonist being the handsome charmer, but there wasn't enough character development on either part to really do that idea any justice. I suppose it's just a case of incredible style over incoherent substance.

[wasted]

I didn't get the ending to Doubt.

The only way it would be interesting is if she was just homophobic/insane and kicked him out because of that.

To change the whole movie at the end to she just has doubts about god was like, really that's a surprise?

She manipulated him to get the truth. Big deal. That wasn't the twist I was looking for. If he was just trying to help the kid, and she had the problem really, that would have been the best. Turning the whole thing around.

I'm blaming Harvey Scissorhands for this one.

Like with Priest and Dogma there was some interesting parts.

Harvey has gone Disney!

It was more the break in character that got to me, had nada to do with the plot.

I thought the break in character wasn't that unexpected. It's a result of the plot. You can see she is struggling with it when she talks with the mother.

I think it's what happens if you try to look for truth in this movie, or in life lol.

[TheSpecialist]

What are your thoughts on YOTD btw? I own that film and am obsessed with it's cinematography; that's probably the only reason I even watch it anymore. Rourke and Lone are engaging but I find the storyline a bit trite and the acting of the lead actress atrocious. Cimino is a great director but I think the dodgy script ultimately lets him down here...

It's a decent picture with a surprising amount of repeat value, despite the obvious flaws. John Lone is great and it's a shame that being a visible minority really kills your chances of having any kind of success in Hollywood. I also like the pace, but the news reporter subplot is garbage, as is the way they handled the undercover cop bit. The nightclub scene looks amazing, but the idea of Stanley White just busting his way in and freely dragging the Triad leader into a bathroom is absolute horseshit. That, and the ending doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what to make of Mickey's performance, all things considered. He looks and acts really cool with his black hat and longcoat, sporting the most awesome grey hair you'll ever see, but the story feels kind of empty. Cimino said he was going for that whole role reversal thing with the protagonist being the antihero and the antagonist being the handsome charmer, but there wasn't enough character development on either part to really do that idea any justice. I suppose it's just a case of incredible style over incoherent substance.

That scene just took me right out of the movie. Ridiculous. I watched the movie with Cimino's commentary and while I kind of understand some of the decisions he made....it just doesn't gel properly. The ending is like MST3k material....laughable stuff. There are quite a few things I like about the movie though like Mickey Rourke's look (his grey hair is badass!) and some of the oliver stone dialogue is amusing and punchy....but sadly it's a misfire overall. What's even weirder is that Mickey seems to hold this movie in higher regard than his classics like Angel Heart and Diner. I'm guessing it's due to some misplaced loyalty with Cimino...

[bluesy]

What are your thoughts on YOTD btw? I own that film and am obsessed with it's cinematography; that's probably the only reason I even watch it anymore. Rourke and Lone are engaging but I find the storyline a bit trite and the acting of the lead actress atrocious. Cimino is a great director but I think the dodgy script ultimately lets him down here...

It's a decent picture with a surprising amount of repeat value, despite the obvious flaws. John Lone is great and it's a shame that being a visible minority really kills your chances of having any kind of success in Hollywood. I also like the pace, but the news reporter subplot is garbage, as is the way they handled the undercover cop bit. The nightclub scene looks amazing, but the idea of Stanley White just busting his way in and freely dragging the Triad leader into a bathroom is absolute horseshit. That, and the ending doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what to make of Mickey's performance, all things considered. He looks and acts really cool with his black hat and longcoat, sporting the most awesome grey hair you'll ever see, but the story feels kind of empty. Cimino said he was going for that whole role reversal thing with the protagonist being the antihero and the antagonist being the handsome charmer, but there wasn't enough character development on either part to really do that idea any justice. I suppose it's just a case of incredible style over incoherent substance.

That scene just took me right out of the movie. Ridiculous. I watched the movie with Cimino's commentary and while I kind of understand some of the decisions he made....it just doesn't gel properly. The ending is like MST3k material....laughable stuff. There are quite a few things I like about the movie though like Mickey Rourke's look (his grey hair is badass!) and some of the oliver stone dialogue is amusing and punchy....but sadly it's a misfire overall. What's even weirder is that Mickey seems to hold this movie in higher regard than his classics like Angel Heart and Diner. I'm guessing it's due to some misplaced loyalty with Cimino...

He once implied that Cimino was a better filmmaker than Scorsese and that he would be content in only making movies with him for the rest of his life. That's quite a bit of praise there, although I'm not sure where it all comes from. To be honest, I prefer YOTD over a lot of other crime epics like American Gangster because of Cimino's unique touch, but you just can't deny the aforementioned flaws.

The funny thing about the whole comeback run was that EVERYBODY overlooked YOTD when talking about Mickey's past works. It seemed like there was a conscious attempt to avoid alluding to that movie, for some reason. Weird.

[TheSpecialist]

What are your thoughts on YOTD btw? I own that film and am obsessed with it's cinematography; that's probably the only reason I even watch it anymore. Rourke and Lone are engaging but I find the storyline a bit trite and the acting of the lead actress atrocious. Cimino is a great director but I think the dodgy script ultimately lets him down here...

It's a decent picture with a surprising amount of repeat value, despite the obvious flaws. John Lone is great and it's a shame that being a visible minority really kills your chances of having any kind of success in Hollywood. I also like the pace, but the news reporter subplot is garbage, as is the way they handled the undercover cop bit. The nightclub scene looks amazing, but the idea of Stanley White just busting his way in and freely dragging the Triad leader into a bathroom is absolute horseshit. That, and the ending doesn't make any sense at all. I don't know what to make of Mickey's performance, all things considered. He looks and acts really cool with his black hat and longcoat, sporting the most awesome grey hair you'll ever see, but the story feels kind of empty. Cimino said he was going for that whole role reversal thing with the protagonist being the antihero and the antagonist being the handsome charmer, but there wasn't enough character development on either part to really do that idea any justice. I suppose it's just a case of incredible style over incoherent substance.

That scene just took me right out of the movie. Ridiculous. I watched the movie with Cimino's commentary and while I kind of understand some of the decisions he made....it just doesn't gel properly. The ending is like MST3k material....laughable stuff. There are quite a few things I like about the movie though like Mickey Rourke's look (his grey hair is badass!) and some of the oliver stone dialogue is amusing and punchy....but sadly it's a misfire overall. What's even weirder is that Mickey seems to hold this movie in higher regard than his classics like Angel Heart and Diner. I'm guessing it's due to some misplaced loyalty with Cimino...

He once implied that Cimino was a better filmmaker than Scorsese and that he would be content in only making movies with him for the rest of his life. That's quite a bit of praise there, although I'm not sure where it all comes from. To be honest, I prefer YOTD over a lot of other crime epics like American Gangster because of Cimino's unique touch, but you just can't deny the aforementioned flaws.

The funny thing about the whole comeback run was that EVERYBODY overlooked YOTD when talking about Mickey's past works. It seemed like there was a conscious attempt to avoid alluding to that movie, for some reason. Weird.

Did he really say that? That's a bold statement....but I wouldn't expect anything less from Mickey. He's loyal to a fault. To be fair, The Deer Hunter is still an amazing film after all these years. I have no doubt when Cimino is firing on all cylinders, he's a master filmmaker...but the guy has been on a losing streak for over 20 years. He hasn't been given many opportunities since he got blacklisted...so I guess he's making the best of a bad situation by specializing in b-movie schlock for the rest of his career.

As for American Gangster....Ridley hasn't made a solid movie since "Gladiator" imho. He's just coasting on his past accolades at this point.

[Angelica]

I consider Hannibal and Black Hawk Down to be much stronger films than Gladiator. The only reason it works is because of Russell Crowe. Cast anyone else and it's just a lot of laughable dialogue and annoying editing, IMO.