Has Chinese Democracy achieved cult status?

[classicrawker]

LOL........It sells in Dollar stores for 99cents............Only with the Axl cult on these forums would anyone think it has attained cult status...............

Wouldn't it sell in dollar stores for a dollar?

I think that it is nothing costs more than a Dollar? but I have never been in one so can't verify this................

[Mr. Dude]

It didn't take over the world. It didn't flop.

It DID achieve cult status.

[classicrawker]

cd reached cult status 15 years ago

This- all the refutations seem to be along the lines of "it didn't sell," or "it didn't get radio play" - it doesn't seem like most posters understand what "cult status" means. I think when you look at all the interest in the recording of the album- ie- Chinese Whispers, the interest in Axl's seclusion 94-01- ie- Axl Rose sighting stories, all the interviews with the different musicians, producers, technicians, etc about the recording process, the Buckethead chicken coop, dog poop stories, etc....

It definitely fits the definition of "cult status." Cult status has nothing to do with commercial success and in fact movies, records, etc that achieve cult status don't achieve commercial success initially. If they achieved commercial success then they wouldn't be eligible for "cult status" in the first place. The Big Lebowski has become one of the biggest cult films of all time and it drew next to nothing at the Box Office.

For a movie/ album to attain cult status doesn't it mean people continue to go back and watch or listen it on a regular basis?...........The Big Lebowski is shown on cable constantly while ChiDem gets virtually zero airplay.............

ChiDem had a mystique to it before it was released but since then not so much.......

It didn't take over the world. It didn't flop.

It DID achieve cult status.

Cult status with whom exactly?

[durruti column]

before it was released, cd had a certain mystique and could be considered as cult.

after it's been released, the album was so disappointing that it's impossible to consider that it has achieved a cult status. the most anticipated and most expensive album ever was a big flop. not cult.

cd reached cult status 15 years ago

and lost that status after it was released.

[Mr. Dude]

Its really comical to read some of these posts. Its funny people saying things like it hasn't achieved cult status "cause its not played on the radio, or it didn't sell (however much). I had no idea that so many people have no inkling what "cult status" means. People continue to confuse it with commercial success and mainstream acceptance (which in some respects is really the antithesis of what it means to achieve cult status).

Also I think for a lot of people everything is viewed as an Axl vs. Slash thing too so they feel like they have to attack anything that they think can be construed as a positive re: CD/Axl, etc. Oh well, thats how it goes I guess. I think it makes me appreciate CD more the fact that a lot of people don't realize/understand/appreciate its brilliance and I guess that kind of ties into and reaffirms its cult status.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Mr. Dude

[Mao5]

no cult status at all, not more than metallica's st. anger :

[classicrawker]

Its really comical to read some of these posts. Its funny people saying things like it hasn't achieved cult status "cause its not played on the radio, or it didn't sell (however much). I had no idea that so many people have no inkling what "cult status" means. People continue to confuse it with commercial success and mainstream acceptance (which in some respects is really the antithesis of what it means to achieve cult status).

Also I think for a lot of people everything is viewed as an Axl vs. Slash thing too so they feel like they have to attack anything that they think can be construed as a positive re: CD/Axl, etc. Oh well, thats how it goes I guess. I think it makes me appreciate CD more the fact that a lot of people don't realize/understand/appreciate its brilliance and I guess that kind of ties into and reaffirms its cult status.

You still have not answered my question.....................what qualifies it as having cult status and exactly whom does it have cult status with other then the Cult of Axl fans on this and other forums? I thought to have cult status people actually have to want to listen to it? I don't see the big fan following movies like the Big Lebowski or Rocky Horror have with ChiDem............

and who even mentioned Slash in this conversation so why are you even bringing up his name?

Since we all seem to be unable to understand this concept and the brilliance of ChiDem you seem to have grasped why not educate us?

Edited December 26, 2013 by classicrawker

[Silent Jay]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

It was a Best Buy exclusive, so it was sold in bulk to Best Buy, that's why it sold so many in one go.

Then they had to sell it for $1 just to get rid of the excess stock. That's not exactly a great achievement.

Yes i agree, that Best Buy deal was not a great achievement.

But it did not flop in the international charts.

Worldwilde sales, it did better than Jay Z new album(1.500.000), Muse 2nd Law(2.000.000), Kanye West Yeezus(1.000.000), Imagine Dragons Night Visions(2.500.000)... and same figures than the new Daft Punk(3.000.000). With no massive hits, no clips, no interviews from Axl.

& in France you can still buy Chinese for 7.

Well if the number of copies best buy bought were the numbers the album technically would have been platinum in a week. But the numbers were between 200,000 and 300,000 copies first week, which is a pretty damn solid debut for a rock album. People keep trying to exaggerate saying it was a flop or it was a massive success. It did pretty well all things considered commercially and critically.

People are just disappointed it didn't take over the world. So they either bash it, or pretend that it did.

275.000 copies first week was all right, and the drop of 75% on the second week is something that any rock band do this days (Pearl Jam, Paramore...).

Exactly.

[classicrawker]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

It was a Best Buy exclusive, so it was sold in bulk to Best Buy, that's why it sold so many in one go.

Then they had to sell it for $1 just to get rid of the excess stock. That's not exactly a great achievement.

Yes i agree, that Best Buy deal was not a great achievement.

But it did not flop in the international charts.

Worldwilde sales, it did better than Jay Z new album(1.500.000), Muse 2nd Law(2.000.000), Kanye West Yeezus(1.000.000), Imagine Dragons Night Visions(2.500.000)... and same figures than the new Daft Punk(3.000.000). With no massive hits, no clips, no interviews from Axl.

& in France you can still buy Chinese for 7.

Well if the number of copies best buy bought were the numbers the album technically would have been platinum in a week. But the numbers were between 200,000 and 300,000 copies first week, which is a pretty damn solid debut for a rock album. People keep trying to exaggerate saying it was a flop or it was a massive success. It did pretty well all things considered commercially and critically.

People are just disappointed it didn't take over the world. So they either bash it, or pretend that it did.

275.000 copies first week was all right, and the drop of 75% on the second week is something that any rock band do this days (Pearl Jam, Paramore...).

Exactly.

It sold less than 750K here in the U.S. which considering we are one of the biggest music markets in the world and GnR is an American band people consider it a flop based on sale expectation that were not realized......it sold more then 3 million world wide so it was hardly a flop...............but I am still trying to understand how it is cult classic when you hear basically nothing about these days and always thought that if something was a cult classic it was less successful on release and gained a following after the fact which is not what has happened with CHiDem..............

[EvH]

Stop trying to make CD a misunderstood masterpiece Guess what? It's not. Not at all.

[D-GenerationX]

Not even a little bit.

So many of you simply refuse to accept that outside true believe internet diehards, very few have ever even heard it. Some still don't even know it was a thing.

That's what "cult" status is. Its rabidly appreciated by a select group of fans. Personally, CD made me reevaluate their entire catalog. I grew up during Illusion era and liked Guns to a degree, but I never took them seriously from an artistic standpoint until CD broke down the barriers I had about GNR. Now I respect and appreciate the entire catalog, but its CD that hooked me.

All these posts miss the mark (and really just lend credence to the op)- they're looking at CD from a commercial perspective. That's another debate entirely.

You are talking about a subset of a subset.

There is not one single solitary person that gave this a listen that wasn't already a pretty big GNR fan at some point.

[wfuckinga]

Can someone PLEASE stop Miser from bumping all the 2 year old threads?

[RichardNixon]

Stop trying to make CD a misunderstood masterpiece Guess what? It's not. Not at all.

That's a matter of opinion.

[EvH]

Stop trying to make CD a misunderstood masterpiece Guess what? It's not. Not at all.

That's a matter of opinion.

No, that's like the stupidest statement ever.

[IRanOutOfIdeas]

It's cult in the sense that a bunch of people on this site worship it.

But if it wants to come into the status that an album such as Raw Power, it needs some more years to it. Give it a decade/decade-and-a-half and I think that'll happen.

[Rovim]

Maybe cult is not the right word here. It was a mythical record when it was still under the status of 'unreleased'.

People did listen to it on Myspace, and many people bought it, but it kinda went under the radar and failed to make a serious public impact.

Artistically, I think it's strong enough to maybe surprise in 10 or 20 years. Not that it will suddenly become a big hit, but maybe in the future more people will connect to it after the baggage that is attached to the Guns name will have a chance to fade away a little, and people will hopefully judge it on it's own merits.

It's been known to happen with many rock albums in the past, and generally with art. I think Chinese is that kind of record: the public needs to forget about all the shit that surrounded it and the history behind it and come back to it with a fresh and open mind.

According to Axl it's just half of the work, much like UYI l or ll. Maybe one day it will be released as the double album it always was.

It achieved a work in progress status.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Rovim

[Mr. Dude]

If people go in with an open mind, its a great record. In my opinion, people's problems with the record have nothing to do with music (whether they realize or admit it or not). Its the image and perception of Axl, old GNR, etc that prevents people from giving CD its due.

[Rovim]

If people go in with an open mind, its a great record. In my opinion, people's problems with the record have nothing to do with music (whether they realize or admit it or not). Its the image and perception of Axl, old GNR, etc that prevents people from giving CD its due.

Some of them just really don't like it musically.

[magisme]

I guess it all depends how small a cult can be.

[saber_]

Hmm I see an ancient thread of mine lives again. There seems to be some confusion about what makes something "cult."

Let's take a brief refresher course:

A cult following is a group of fans who are highly dedicated to a specific area of culture. A film, book, musical artist, television series, or video game, among other things, will be said to have a cult following when it has a small but very passionate fan base. A common component of cult followings is the emotional attachment fans have to the object of the cult following, often identifying themselves and other fans as members of a community. Cult followings are also commonly associated with niche markets. Cult media are often associated with underground culture, and are considered too eccentric, bizarre, controversial or anti-establishment to be appreciated by the general public.

Many cult fans express a certain irony about their devotion. Sometimes, these cult followings cross the border to camp followings. Cult fans of director Ed Wood admire his films not because they consider them to be excellent, but because they are so bad that they become funny and curiously fascinating. The same phenomenon can be observed with things that are appreciated by a certain generation out of nostalgia or childhood memories. Fans may become involved in a subculture of fandom, either via conventions, online communities, or through activities such as writing series-related fiction, costume creation, replica prop and model building, or creating their own audio or video productions based around the formats and characters.

[Mr. Dude]

but they don't play it on the radio

but it didn't sell as well as past albums

but Slash isn't on it

Its pretty clear that CD "has a small but very passionate fan base" and overall is "not appreciated by the general public." Its ironic that people are using those very reasons to argue against it having cult status.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Mr. Dude

[magisme]

Its pretty clear that CD "has a small but very passionate fan base."

So did my high school hockey team.

[Mr. Dude]

Stop trying to make CD a misunderstood masterpiece Guess what? It's not. Not at all.

Great insight. Thanks for clearing that up.

[magisme]

Whose alt is this?

[RussTCB]

Its pretty clear that CD "has a small but very passionate fan base."

So did my high school hockey team.

You're on fire today. I've LOL'd at a couple of yours.