Has Chinese Democracy achieved cult status?

[star]

..with Chinese Democracy I sometimes got the impression, the longer it was delayed the more Axl enjoyed the fact. If Axl stayed a recluse, and never released Chinese Democracy, then it might have become a thing of urban legend. By releasing the album, it blew all that a way. Maybe behind the scenes (curtain) Axl’s plan was to attempt to create a cult status album. Which reminds me, Motley Crue’s Nikki once said:

'The thing with Axl is as much as I love him, he's kind of a fucking emo fag. He's not really a dude. He's like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain making a lot of noise. He never stepped up to the plate when Vince challenged him. Axl wasn't into getting wild. I think that's his inner-emo. He's so fucking artsy. I'm pulling it out in the press. Axl if you're there: Lose your inner-emo. Come back to us. Dude, let's rock.'

_

Edited June 26, 2011 by star

[GNR123GNR456]

..with Chinese Democracy I sometimes got the impression, the longer it was delayed the more Axl enjoyed the fact. If Axl stayed a recluse, and never released Chinese Democracy, then it might have become a thing of urban legend. By releasing the album, it blew all that a way. Maybe behind the scenes (curtain) Axl’s plan was to attempt to create a cult status album. Which reminds me, Motley Crue’s Nikki once said:

'The thing with Axl is as much as I love him, he's kind of a fucking emo fag. He's not really a dude. He's like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain making a lot of noise. He never stepped up to the plate when Vince challenged him. Axl wasn't into getting wild. I think that's his inner-emo. He's so fucking artsy. I'm pulling it out in the press. Axl if you're there: Lose your inner-emo. Come back to us. Dude, let's rock.'

_

What the fuck is he talking about? Inner-emo?

He's artsy, so was Freddie Mercury, or John Lennon. Some guy's just don't like to be the "cool macho rock and roll, snort cocaine," type of people.

[star]

..with Chinese Democracy I sometimes got the impression, the longer it was delayed the more Axl enjoyed the fact. If Axl stayed a recluse, and never released Chinese Democracy, then it might have become a thing of urban legend. By releasing the album, it blew all that a way. Maybe behind the scenes (curtain) Axl’s plan was to attempt to create a cult status album. Which reminds me, Motley Crue’s Nikki once said:

'The thing with Axl is as much as I love him, he's kind of a fucking emo fag. He's not really a dude. He's like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain making a lot of noise. He never stepped up to the plate when Vince challenged him. Axl wasn't into getting wild. I think that's his inner-emo. He's so fucking artsy. I'm pulling it out in the press. Axl if you're there: Lose your inner-emo. Come back to us. Dude, let's rock.'

_

What the fuck is he talking about? Inner-emo?

He's artsy, so was Freddie Mercury, or John Lennon. Some guy's just don't like to be the "cool macho rock and roll, snort cocaine," type of people.

I think that's his whole point. Axl has always put himself up as some hard living rock n'roll bad-ass. The reality appears to be, he simply isn't. Sure he sings (or atleast used to sing) about such stuff. I guess Axl's a bit of a pretender.

Edited June 26, 2011 by star

[sailaway]

..with Chinese Democracy I sometimes got the impression, the longer it was delayed the more Axl enjoyed the fact. If Axl stayed a recluse, and never released Chinese Democracy, then it might have become a thing of urban legend. By releasing the album, it blew all that a way. Maybe behind the scenes (curtain) Axl’s plan was to attempt to create a cult status album. Which reminds me, Motley Crue’s Nikki once said:

'The thing with Axl is as much as I love him, he's kind of a fucking emo fag. He's not really a dude. He's like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain making a lot of noise. He never stepped up to the plate when Vince challenged him. Axl wasn't into getting wild. I think that's his inner-emo. He's so fucking artsy. I'm pulling it out in the press. Axl if you're there: Lose your inner-emo. Come back to us. Dude, let's rock.'

_

What the fuck is he talking about? Inner-emo?

He's artsy, so was Freddie Mercury, or John Lennon. Some guy's just don't like to be the "cool macho rock and roll, snort cocaine," type of people.

I think that's his whole point. Axl has always put himself up as some hard living rock n'roll bad-ass. The reality appears to be, he simply isn't. Sure he sings (or atleast used to sing) about such stuff. I guess Axl's a bit of a pretender.

Artsy and street aren't necessarily separated,Lennon got into several brawls in and out of the Beatles.

Ask the paparazzi at LAX about Axl's tough side.

Would you honestly expect N6 to not back that fatass Vincey?

[dalsh327]

..with Chinese Democracy I sometimes got the impression, the longer it was delayed the more Axl enjoyed the fact. If Axl stayed a recluse, and never released Chinese Democracy, then it might have become a thing of urban legend. By releasing the album, it blew all that a way. Maybe behind the scenes (curtain) Axl’s plan was to attempt to create a cult status album. Which reminds me, Motley Crue’s Nikki once said:

'The thing with Axl is as much as I love him, he's kind of a fucking emo fag. He's not really a dude. He's like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain making a lot of noise. He never stepped up to the plate when Vince challenged him. Axl wasn't into getting wild. I think that's his inner-emo. He's so fucking artsy. I'm pulling it out in the press. Axl if you're there: Lose your inner-emo. Come back to us. Dude, let's rock.'

_

Nikki knows what works for HIS band, but he's also changed band members around over time. Crue is his band, he positioned himself as the main songwriter. He's coming from an older brother to younger brother place w/ Axl, with a little bit of band rivalry. Crue made a name for themselves on the US Festival, but the quality of songs from that band has always been hit and miss. GNR never would've allowed something like Theater of Pain to be released.

And Crue has some overproduced songs, with outside songwriters so they could have their top 40 hits.

He came to the conclusion that dealing with Tommy, Vince, and Mick's various issues makes more money than trying to replace any of them. He also has a family that he has to support (but then again, so does Axl..). He'd be the first to say call Slash up. So would David Lee Roth. The money's good, you deal with the bullshit for a year, and then you go off and enjoy spending the hundreds of millions you just made and record what you want next. To me, it doesn't mean you lack integrity to compromise when you're doing this because the people want to hear it and willing to pay to hear it. I know that some people try to hold off on doing reunions

But the reunion tour won't happen because Slash, Izzy and Adler would want to be reinstated as business partners, or demand x amount of dollars if that isn't going to happen. He knows the tour would make over 100 million dollars just touring the US for a year. Axl makes a huge chunk of change as it stands right now, and the band members are living large from the past few years of touring. It's a given they all walked away from the tour as millionaires, or pretty close to it, when you take into account festivals and the private shows.

Most people are divided on whether or not "Chinese Democracy" sounds like a "real Guns N Roses album", and he's of the opinion that it's not. Eddie Trunk put some of the CD songs in his GNR "mix tape" in his book, so he feels it's a GNR album.

Axl and Prince are pretty similiar in how they handle things, but I think Ashba was also hired on to go through these tapes and give his input on the next batch of songs worth releasing. He sounds like he's giving Axl some positive reinforcement and they'll just figure out what they have. I think they all know the next GNR CD isn't going to fly off shelves, but they prob. want to start weeding out some AFD era songs.

And maybe "Chinese Democracy" was intended to be his "Beach Boys Smile" - an album so ambitious that he had to shelve it indefinitely, or for over 40 years.

No album that takes years to make ever turns out to live up to the hype. The Wall took 2 years, Sgt Pepper took 6 months, both of which were considered a long time.. Now the average time it takes to put something new out is around 3 years because most bands will tour for their album for at least a year- year and a half, or if someone's doing side projects that delay getting back in the studio.

GNR have been off the road since the end of last year, with one show planned for the year. Axl sorted things out with Azoff, so I'm sure we'll be hearing about new music or live shows before the end of the year. The only setbacks that might happen will have to do with band members.

[Chewbacca]

Who cares how tough Axl is? People are too hung up on image...

True.

[Lines&Noses]

it falls more along the lines of waterworld than daydream nation if that is what you are asking.

i liken it more to ishtar, than office space.

Typical. Perhaps some of the nuance and depth of CD eluded you.

From my point of view however, I would liken Chinese Democracy to some of David Lynch's work- particularly Dune, which although it was a big budget film, has become a cult favorite, especially among fans of Lynch, Dune (the book), and sci-fi fans.

I like the Dune film now that I have read the book (actually I read them all) I don't think you can properly understand the film without reading the book.

Maybe there is something that I need to unlock Chi Dem too (maybe Chi Dem II and III?), but as it is as a stand alone piece of work I really find it rather disappointing.

[wasted]

to me CD seems very similar to other GNR albums, it's not quite as heavy as Illusions, not as metal, it's as much of a party album as AFD. but I can match the tracks

Chi Dem....Dead Horse/Jungle

Shackler's...Double Talking Jive/Locomotive

Better....SCOM/YCBM

SOD...Yesterdays/SCOM

ITW...LNLD/My World

TWAT...Paradise City/Nov Rain

Catcher...Estranged

Scraped...Out Ta Get Me

Riad...Garden of Eden

Sorry...Don't Cry

IRS...Brownstone

Madagascar...Civil War

This I Love...Nov Rain

Prostitute....Coma

some of them not sure about but in general same kind of stuff just different production.

[Guest Len B'stard]

another good example is Raw Power. from wikipedia:

"Raw Power was largely ignored upon its release, and the group broke up in obscurity a few years later. However, it was embraced by a small, rabid fan-base that included many younger musicians who would go on to help create the punk rock genre in the mid- to late-1970s and experience commercial success, making Raw Power one of the most important proto-punk documents of its era."

same thing could be said about AFD. the question is, will CD have this same effect in 10-20 years?

How on earth does that correlate AFD to Raw Power?!?!?!?!?! AFD wasn't a flop on release, AFD didn't take 20 plus years to get appreciated, AFD didn't sink Guns n Roses, it made Guns n Roses.

And if you compare Raw Power to CD again i will find where you live and burn your house down Honestly, jesus, Raw Power is like...one of 3 or maybe 5 best rock n roll albums ever created, let me end the suspense for you now, CD will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever have any kind of status even vaguely approaching what Raw Power is...ever.

As far as cult status, Chi Dem had that before it was even released, by virtue of all the drama in and around and surrounding its release. Watch your mouth when you're talking about Raw Power man, Raw Power has disciples and we're a militant bunch

Edited June 28, 2011 by sugaraylen

[Lim666]

the answer is: NO!

[D-GenerationX]

Not even a little bit.

So many of you simply refuse to accept that outside true believe internet diehards, very few have ever even heard it. Some still don't even know it was a thing.

[The Black]

It achieved flop status.

[classicrawker]

LOL........It sells in Dollar stores for 99cents............Only with the Axl cult on these forums would anyone think it has attained cult status...............

[Mr. Dude]

Not even a little bit.

So many of you simply refuse to accept that outside true believe internet diehards, very few have ever even heard it. Some still don't even know it was a thing.

That's what "cult" status is. Its rabidly appreciated by a select group of fans. Personally, CD made me reevaluate their entire catalog. I grew up during Illusion era and liked Guns to a degree, but I never took them seriously from an artistic standpoint until CD broke down the barriers I had about GNR. Now I respect and appreciate the entire catalog, but its CD that hooked me.

All these posts miss the mark (and really just lend credence to the op)- they're looking at CD from a commercial perspective. That's another debate entirely.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Mr. Dude

[Silent Jay]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

[niceguy]

Maybe in a Sling Blade kind of way.

I'm thinking more like Eddie Murphy's Boomerang.

[LTD]

It was a cult album. From around 2000 to 2008. After getting released, everything around it got demystified. Post-release CD has/had nothing to offer that'd earn it 'cult status'. It'd be much more cult worthy had it remained unreleased for all eternity.

Ex-Cult:

CD

Matt Sorum

[TeeJay410]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

[The Black]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

It was a Best Buy exclusive, so it was sold in bulk to Best Buy, that's why it sold so many in one go.

Then they had to sell it for $1 just to get rid of the excess stock. That's not exactly a great achievement.

[luciusfunk]

LOL........It sells in Dollar stores for 99cents............Only with the Axl cult on these forums would anyone think it has attained cult status...............

Wouldn't it sell in dollar stores for a dollar?

[username]

Would you consider Chinese Democracy to be a cult record? As in- a cult classic? While that term is often applied to films, it is perhaps apt to apply it to Chinese Democracy as well. Would you agree?

I believe that in some ways, it definitely meets the criteria. It's got elements of experimental leanings, various genre influences, and an interwoven myriad of unique sounds, timbres, and aural textures. Those things in and of themselves don't equal cult, but taken as a whole, Chinese Democracy might just be a cult record.

lolno.

Stop pushing it. It's just not gonna happen.

Edited December 26, 2013 by username

[wasteofammo]

cd reached cult status 15 years ago

[Mr. Dude]

cd reached cult status 15 years ago

This- all the refutations seem to be along the lines of "it didn't sell," or "it didn't get radio play" - it doesn't seem like most posters understand what "cult status" means. I think when you look at all the interest in the recording of the album- ie- Chinese Whispers, the interest in Axl's seclusion 94-01- ie- Axl Rose sighting stories, all the interviews with the different musicians, producers, technicians, etc about the recording process, the Buckethead chicken coop, dog poop stories, etc....

It definitely fits the definition of "cult status." Cult status has nothing to do with commercial success and in fact movies, records, etc that achieve cult status don't achieve commercial success initially. If they achieved commercial success then they wouldn't be eligible for "cult status" in the first place. The Big Lebowski has become one of the biggest cult films of all time and it drew next to nothing at the Box Office.

[Silent Jay]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

It was a Best Buy exclusive, so it was sold in bulk to Best Buy, that's why it sold so many in one go.

Then they had to sell it for $1 just to get rid of the excess stock. That's not exactly a great achievement.

Yes i agree, that Best Buy deal was not a great achievement.

But it did not flop in the international charts.

Worldwilde sales, it did better than Jay Z new album(1.500.000), Muse 2nd Law(2.000.000), Kanye West Yeezus(1.000.000), Imagine Dragons Night Visions(2.500.000)... and same figures than the new Daft Punk(3.000.000). With no massive hits, no clips, no interviews from Axl.

& in France you can still buy Chinese for 7€.

[TeeJay410]

It achieved flop status.

Chinese undersold in the US, but it achieved a worldwilde success.

I wouldn't even say it undersold in the US. It sold just as a solid rock record should. It would have been insane to honestly expect it to sell anymore than it did considering all the aspects working against it.

It was a Best Buy exclusive, so it was sold in bulk to Best Buy, that's why it sold so many in one go.

Then they had to sell it for $1 just to get rid of the excess stock. That's not exactly a great achievement.

Yes i agree, that Best Buy deal was not a great achievement.

But it did not flop in the international charts.

Worldwilde sales, it did better than Jay Z new album(1.500.000), Muse 2nd Law(2.000.000), Kanye West Yeezus(1.000.000), Imagine Dragons Night Visions(2.500.000)... and same figures than the new Daft Punk(3.000.000). With no massive hits, no clips, no interviews from Axl.

& in France you can still buy Chinese for 7.

Well if the number of copies best buy bought were the numbers the album technically would have been platinum in a week. But the numbers were between 200,000 and 300,000 copies first week, which is a pretty damn solid debut for a rock album. People keep trying to exaggerate saying it was a flop or it was a massive success. It did pretty well all things considered commercially and critically.

People are just disappointed it didn't take over the world. So they either bash it, or pretend that it did.