This Rio show was a complete DISASTER

[Ali]

I think you guys are a little harsh on the guy.

Cant a man have a day off, of fuck up? common now, if this shit continues on US tour, then the towel is off.

Showing up fat, out of shape, and not ready to perform is not an off day.

That is a sign that he just doesn't give a fuck about giving the best he's got, and that is a far larger problem than an off day.

Damn, with all the criticism about Axl's conditioning, I have to wonder, what kind of shape are you in? What's your body fat %? How much do you bench?

It's one thing to criticize a guitar player going out of tune as he bends a note, or a singer for the quality of their tone, but this criticism of appearance is ridiculous. You go on and on about it, yet you've made your point long ago.

I hope you're in NBA-caliber shape considering how critical you are.

Ali

Axl is a singer, being in shape is his job. If he's out of shape, it effects his ability to do his job.

A guitarist does not rely on endurance and cardiovascular conditioning to reach his peak performance the way a singer has to.

It is a core competency of the job.

You are comparing Apples to oranges.

If Kobe Bryant showed up next year significantly heavier and out of shape, are you telling me that his poor conditioning would in no way effect his ability to reach his max level? A center can get away with more bulk, a guard can't because being quick is part of the job description.

Being in shape is part of a singers job description, as failure to do so directly impacts there ability to perform at the highest level.

You can continue to live in an alternate universe where that isn't true, but it is.

Hell, watch the videos of Axl from when he was skinny and in shape vs. now. His lung capacity is night and day as you can visibly see him sucking wind the heavier he is. If it made no difference in his performance, he would have been out of shape and fat all along. Not just when he decided to stop giving a shit like now.

Calling someone fat to me is not a criticism of their conditioning alone, though. It's a criticism of their appearance. I'm just wondering if you yourself are in tip-top shape being so critical of another's conditioning. You didn't just mention it once, you mention over and over and over. I find it odd and shallow for someone who's a fan of someone's musical abilities. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself, or so it goes.

Oh, and Luther Vandross was often not "skinny", yet he was a great singer. So is Aretha Franklin. Cardiovascular conditioning affects your lung capacity, but the trick as a singer is to not just fill your lungs with air, it's to fill your diaphragm as well. That is a learned breathing technique, and as the aforementioned examples show, you don't need to be thin necessarily to be able to take in a lot of air to support your voice.

Ali

[sleishman drums]

BAHAHAHA why would the old gnr boys want to play with something like that.. very VERY poor...

[gnrfan2007]

RIR3: Axl was 10 years younger dumbass!

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Axl at his age, is not in any shape to put on 2.5 hour show in that kind of weather. Axl started the show off well and he was in great spirit at the start too.

Axl should have just stayed in his YELLOW raincoat all night!

I know the old adage of 'Axl gets better as he goes on tour' however, he has never started a tour off THIS bad.

Even RIR3 he was better vocally and definitely more in condition.

[Guest gunns5]

RIR3: Axl was 10 years younger dumbass!

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Axl at his age, is not in any shape to put on 2.5 hour show in that kind of weather. Axl started the show off well and he was in great spirit at the start too.

Axl should have just stayed in his YELLOW raincoat all night!

I know the old adage of 'Axl gets better as he goes on tour' however, he has never started a tour off THIS bad.

Even RIR3 he was better vocally and definitely more in condition.

HE WAS 1000X Better in Sydney only 10 months ago DUMB ASS,

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Well we now know who won the prize for being the King of Dumb Asses.

Edited October 4, 2011 by gunns5

[Cosmo]

I think you guys are a little harsh on the guy.

Cant a man have a day off, of fuck up? common now, if this shit continues on US tour, then the towel is off.

Showing up fat, out of shape, and not ready to perform is not an off day.

That is a sign that he just doesn't give a fuck about giving the best he's got, and that is a far larger problem than an off day.

Damn, with all the criticism about Axl's conditioning, I have to wonder, what kind of shape are you in? What's your body fat %? How much do you bench?

It's one thing to criticize a guitar player going out of tune as he bends a note, or a singer for the quality of their tone, but this criticism of appearance is ridiculous. You go on and on about it, yet you've made your point long ago.

I hope you're in NBA-caliber shape considering how critical you are.

Ali

Axl is a singer, being in shape is his job. If he's out of shape, it effects his ability to do his job.

A guitarist does not rely on endurance and cardiovascular conditioning to reach his peak performance the way a singer has to.

It is a core competency of the job.

You are comparing Apples to oranges.

If Kobe Bryant showed up next year significantly heavier and out of shape, are you telling me that his poor conditioning would in no way effect his ability to reach his max level? A center can get away with more bulk, a guard can't because being quick is part of the job description.

Being in shape is part of a singers job description, as failure to do so directly impacts there ability to perform at the highest level.

You can continue to live in an alternate universe where that isn't true, but it is.

Hell, watch the videos of Axl from when he was skinny and in shape vs. now. His lung capacity is night and day as you can visibly see him sucking wind the heavier he is. If it made no difference in his performance, he would have been out of shape and fat all along. Not just when he decided to stop giving a shit like now.

Calling someone fat to me is not a criticism of their conditioning alone, though. It's a criticism of their appearance. I'm just wondering if you yourself are in tip-top shape being so critical of another's conditioning. You didn't just mention it once, you mention over and over and over. I find it odd and shallow for someone who's a fan of someone's musical abilities. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself, or so it goes.

Oh, and Luther Vandross was often not "skinny", yet he was a great singer. So is Aretha Franklin. Cardiovascular conditioning affects your lung capacity, but the trick as a singer is to not just fill your lungs with air, it's to fill your diaphragm as well. That is a learned breathing technique, and as the aforementioned examples show, you don't need to be thin necessarily to be able to take in a lot of air to support your voice.

Ali

You're absolutely right but physical performance, you know.... running' around and all... if you're not in a nice physical shape, you get tired quicker... Luther Vandross, Aretha Franklin, Barry White, they didn't run around like Axl does... Singing still or just moving a little bit, it makes no difference if you're fat or not.

[gnrfan2007]

hmmm...maybe so that they can still play to big arenas ... and headline big festivals ... and still be able to make records with big distribution deals ...

those are just a few of the perks of being with [new] GnR

BAHAHAHA why would the old gnr boys want to play with something like that.. very VERY poor...

[Young_Gun]

RIR3: Axl was 10 years younger dumbass!

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Axl at his age, is not in any shape to put on 2.5 hour show in that kind of weather. Axl started the show off well and he was in great spirit at the start too.

Axl should have just stayed in his YELLOW raincoat all night!

I know the old adage of 'Axl gets better as he goes on tour' however, he has never started a tour off THIS bad.

Even RIR3 he was better vocally and definitely more in condition.

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

[gnrfan2007]

Axl was 10months younger when he played in Sydney dumbass! LMAO

Axl didn't have to deal with the weather in Sydney dumbass! LMAO

Axl had started the tour in Asia before hitting Sydney dumbass! LMAO

Let's see how well you can do in the heavy rain after 15-minutes dumbass! LMAO

RIR3: Axl was 10 years younger dumbass!

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Axl at his age, is not in any shape to put on 2.5 hour show in that kind of weather. Axl started the show off well and he was in great spirit at the start too.

Axl should have just stayed in his YELLOW raincoat all night!

I know the old adage of 'Axl gets better as he goes on tour' however, he has never started a tour off THIS bad.

Even RIR3 he was better vocally and definitely more in condition.

HE WAS 1000X Better in Sydney only 10 months ago DUMB ASS,

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Well we now know who won the prize for being the King of Dumb Asses.

[Ali]

Ali - I agree with what you are saying. But what people are really complaining about is that Axl was out of breath in about 75% of the songs, which effected the overall quality of his singing. So the "idea" is that if he was in shape, he would have been able to sing more effectively. Go listen to the start of Better or You Could Be Mine....it is brutal.

Fans are just dissapointed, as they assumed that Axl would have prepared himself better for a gig of this magnitude.

The band rehearsed - but Axl sounded like this was the first time he'd sang in months. I think most singers would have spent the prior month preparing themselves for the tour, instead of using the tour to get in shape.

+1000.

You got the correlation between his conditioning and the effect on his singing. It is not like we are advocating being in shape for the sake of being in shape, but that being in shape will lead to a superior vocal product.

Ali, do you find it disrespectful towards the fans on Axl's part that he works his way into shape giving mediocre shows at the start of tours even though those fans are paying just as much as the ones who will see the better product at the end?

To me its like a big fuck you that he cares so little about giving the people their money's worth he is OK with knowingly showing up not ready to be in top form. Seems to me if he cared he would be ready from day 1 to give them the same caliber show as the last day of the tour.

It's no more disrespectful than if I go to an NBA at the beginning of the year and don't see my favorite player, be it Dwight Howard or Monta Ellis or whoever, play as long as they do towards the end of the season. The point is I think it is an inevitable and unavoidable fact that conditioning improves during the course of a tour or a season. He can prepare better for the start of the tour, but it's unavoidable that he will be in better shape vocally at the end of the tour.

Ali

[gnrfan2007]

Let's see how well you can sing in the cold heavy rain!

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

[Ali]

I think you guys are a little harsh on the guy.

Cant a man have a day off, of fuck up? common now, if this shit continues on US tour, then the towel is off.

Showing up fat, out of shape, and not ready to perform is not an off day.

That is a sign that he just doesn't give a fuck about giving the best he's got, and that is a far larger problem than an off day.

Damn, with all the criticism about Axl's conditioning, I have to wonder, what kind of shape are you in? What's your body fat %? How much do you bench?

It's one thing to criticize a guitar player going out of tune as he bends a note, or a singer for the quality of their tone, but this criticism of appearance is ridiculous. You go on and on about it, yet you've made your point long ago.

I hope you're in NBA-caliber shape considering how critical you are.

Ali

Axl is a singer, being in shape is his job. If he's out of shape, it effects his ability to do his job.

A guitarist does not rely on endurance and cardiovascular conditioning to reach his peak performance the way a singer has to.

It is a core competency of the job.

You are comparing Apples to oranges.

If Kobe Bryant showed up next year significantly heavier and out of shape, are you telling me that his poor conditioning would in no way effect his ability to reach his max level? A center can get away with more bulk, a guard can't because being quick is part of the job description.

Being in shape is part of a singers job description, as failure to do so directly impacts there ability to perform at the highest level.

You can continue to live in an alternate universe where that isn't true, but it is.

Hell, watch the videos of Axl from when he was skinny and in shape vs. now. His lung capacity is night and day as you can visibly see him sucking wind the heavier he is. If it made no difference in his performance, he would have been out of shape and fat all along. Not just when he decided to stop giving a shit like now.

Calling someone fat to me is not a criticism of their conditioning alone, though. It's a criticism of their appearance. I'm just wondering if you yourself are in tip-top shape being so critical of another's conditioning. You didn't just mention it once, you mention over and over and over. I find it odd and shallow for someone who's a fan of someone's musical abilities. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself, or so it goes.

Oh, and Luther Vandross was often not "skinny", yet he was a great singer. So is Aretha Franklin. Cardiovascular conditioning affects your lung capacity, but the trick as a singer is to not just fill your lungs with air, it's to fill your diaphragm as well. That is a learned breathing technique, and as the aforementioned examples show, you don't need to be thin necessarily to be able to take in a lot of air to support your voice.

Ali

You're absolutely right but physical performance, you know.... running' around and all... if you're not in a nice physical shape, you get tired quicker... Luther Vandross, Aretha Franklin, Barry White, they didn't run around like Axl does... Singing still or just moving a little bit, it makes no difference if you're fat or not.

I agree with what you're saying about the running around and all. But, the point is that cardiovascular conditioning in and of itself does not determine a singer's capacity to properly support their voice with breath.

Ali

[sleishman drums]

hmmm...maybe so that they can still play to big arenas ... and headline big festivals ... and still be able to make records with big distribution deals ...

those are just a few of the perks of being with [new] GnR

BAHAHAHA why would the old gnr boys want to play with something like that.. very VERY poor...

you have silenced me

[gnrfan2007]

Some folks have a hard time believing that cold heavy rain can affect a person's singing abilities.

I agree with what you're saying about the running around and all. But, the point is that cardiovascular conditioning in and of itself does not determine a singer's capacity to properly support their voice with breath.

Ali

Edited October 4, 2011 by gnrfan2007

[Young_Gun]

Let's see how well you can sing in the cold heavy rain!

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

Plenty of singers have and they didn't decline as much as Axl did. Did the rain effect his memory for his own lyrics?

[gunsguy]

Let's see how well you can sing in the cold heavy rain!

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

Plenty of singers have and they didn't decline as much as Axl did. Did the rain effect his memory for his own lyrics?

Lots of singers can't remember lyrics in concert it's the reason why most (who sing live) have telepromters... It is hard to know where you are at with so much going on, telepromters are not new at all. Do a youtbe search on singers that forgot lyrics it might surprise some of you..

[Kill Devil Hill]

Messing up lyrics you've known for decades in front of 100,000+ people and then carrying on with one awesome vocal performance is hardly acting like a child...

Just watch end of november rain, Axl is so pissed off that doesn't even want to sing it, is it professional singer in action? Look how Bubmlefoot just enjoys his playing next to Axl..

Yeah, he looks bummed. Wouldn't you be? Lots of people simply can't cover up their emotions without trying. The fact that he joked about it later and carried on is pretty great, in my opinion.

[sleishman drums]

actually i take back what i said.. everyone has off days.. even if you put 100% into rehersals and whatnot.. all it takes is ONE stuff up and the rest of the night can be screwed.. i dont think its like axl doesn't care, infact i think the exact opposite.. i think he cares so much that when he stuffed up.. it just ruined the rest of his night.. the show may have been bad.. but lets just give the guy a break here.. we all screw up.. you know out of ten shows that gnr do, maybe 2-3 will be bad.. so lets not get too worked up here..

axls still the man, it was just an off night..

[tomazrui]

And yes, the rain was FUCKING COLD.

I too blame the "criticism" by some solely on the rain.

[Kill Devil Hill]

actually i take back what i said.. everyone has off days.. even if you put 100% into rehersals and whatnot.. all it takes is ONE stuff up and the rest of the night can be screwed.. i dont think its like axl doesn't care, infact i think the exact opposite.. i think he cares so much that when he stuffed up.. it just ruined the rest of his night.. the show may have been bad.. but lets just give the guy a break here.. we all screw up.. you know out of ten shows that gnr do, maybe 2-3 will be bad.. so lets not get too worked up here..

axls still the man, it was just an off night..

Great post.

[Apollo]

RIR3: Axl was 10 years younger dumbass!

I put the BLAME solely on the weather.

Axl at his age, is not in any shape to put on 2.5 hour show in that kind of weather. Axl started the show off well and he was in great spirit at the start too.

Axl should have just stayed in his YELLOW raincoat all night!

I know the old adage of 'Axl gets better as he goes on tour' however, he has never started a tour off THIS bad.

Even RIR3 he was better vocally and definitely more in condition.

He was out of breath in song one.

Axl nailed a couple songs, usually after the oxygen breaks.

Listen to better.....that's because of the weather?

And you guys don't have to call each other names because you have a disagreement. Unless you are 7 years old, try and debate the topic and not just insult people who have a different opinion. That's pretty childish.

[gnrfan2007]

Why is it not good to stand in the rain? Because you can get sick!

Why can you get sick?

Because being wet with rain makes you cold.

When you get cold, what happens? You lose your capabilities to function normally.

Things really started to not go well during November Rain. Why? Because that song required all of Axl's abilities to perform! Play piano and sing! Not only that, Axl had to deal with the rain on the piano. He was also sitting in water!

Axl is old and not the most fit person in the world. So to claim that the rain did not effect him, is plain ignorance!

Let's see how well you can sing in the cold heavy rain!

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

Plenty of singers have and they didn't decline as much as Axl did. Did the rain effect his memory for his own lyrics?

[Nintari]

Let's see how well you can sing in the cold heavy rain!

His voice sucked throughout the show barring a handful of songs, so no he didn't start off well. He certainly started of slightly better, but still not well.

Plenty of singers have and they didn't decline as much as Axl did. Did the rain effect his memory for his own lyrics?

Lots of singers can't remember lyrics in concert it's the reason why most (who sing live) have telepromters... It is hard to know where you are at with so much going on, telepromters are not new at all. Do a youtbe search on singers that forgot lyrics it might surprise some of you..

GUNSGUY - Do you think Axl rehearsed with the band in preparation for this huge show? You are correct people forget lyrics but do you think Axl rehearsed with his band for this show. Yes or no????

The problem is that Axl forgot words during ALOT of songs. Even Estranged, where most of us agree that it was a killer performance, he fucked up the line "and all my friends said I was high". He was just forgetting shit left and right. It's one thing to botch something once, but he did it damn near all night for some reason.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Nintari

[Kapitch_77]

So if it wasn't for the rain Axl would've sing like he used to in 1992? Cool Did the rain make Beta come on stage too? Because let's hope it never rains again, that was embarassing. I can't even recognise the guy I was a fan of. Axl has lost it and almost everything about him sucks now.

[eggers]

Rewatching some of the clips Axl looks disappointed rather than pissed off. Also depression can turn on like that, who knows. I still think everyone needs to chill a bit, there was a huge overreaction here right after the show.

Edited October 4, 2011 by eggers

[Kill Devil Hill]

So if it wasn't for the rain Axl would've sing like he used to in 1992? Cool Did the rain make Beta come on stage too? Because let's hope it never rains again, that was embarassing. I can't even recognise the guy I was a fan of. Axl has lost it and almost everything about him sucks now.

Why the fuck would anybody want Axl to sound like '92?

I liked his Tokyo '92 vocals, but everything else was pretty bad. '99 and '10 Axl FTW.