OptimusPrimeNL Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Matt Sorum posted on his twitter:Axl first played the finished version of November Rain for me in the parking lot of El Compadre on Sunset Blvd. He had a killer car stereo . Slash n Duff stayed inside drinkingOh yah It is a November Rain. Piece of trivia November Rain and Estranged were originally one complete song, a very long song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppruks Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 damn...I find that very hard to believe for some reason...Estranged is so much more complex...even playing wise...I'd expect young Axl to sit behind the piano and come up with november rain...cuz the intro is sort of a very natural progression of notes and fairly simple...but estranged...I dunno...I think that came a lot later...but I mean what do I know...I wasn't in the band that thing about the car stereo is cool though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Smooth Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Changes Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano.But didn't several people say it was once a 20 minute piece or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling Rose Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 ^ very true,multiple demos existed of november rain, and they were easily available long before the UYI albums,and none of these demo even hinted at anything resembling estranged as an ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Doubt that. Maybe the "dizzy reed" part from Estranged could have been once from november rain and one thing led to another 'till they got estranged but it's really doubtful.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay410 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I mean it's believable, they're both in the same key, part of the "trilogy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzi your illusion Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Maybe Axl just played them back to back but Matt didn't realize. If he was inside drinking with Slash and Duff before he came out to listen, then you can't really blame him lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Catcher in the Rye Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 it can be "possible" but i think is fake, Estranged is so complex and so different than November in composition .. but, both are part of the "trilogy" can be true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 it can be "possible" but i think is fake, Estranged is so complex and so different than November in composition .. but, both are part of the "trilogy" can be trueThe General's supposed to be the third part, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishoGunsNRoses Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think that they were drunk or high, and people react differently to some stuff when they are under the influence, so Axl or Matt maybe exaggerated it. And it just goes like that, when something stays a lie for a long time your brain turns it into the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I'd believe they might've used parts of Estranged in that original ridiculously long November Rain (I've heard of 18 minute and 25 minute versions). Some of the lyrics at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iftheworld Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yea because I completely trust Matt "The Temp Drummer" Sorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppruks Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I mean it's believable, they're both in the same key, part of the "trilogy" the beginning of Estranged is actually in G minor, rest in is C major just like November Rain (except for the coda which is is C minor)...the weird thing about most Guns songs is that they're played down half a step...so November Rain would be in B major..sounds way better in that key imo...I'm pretty sure that Axl's piano is tuned half a step down, since he always plays it in C major, but it sounds like it's in B major...also explains why Ashba had problems with the This I Love solo at first, since the piano has a weird tuning..as well as why Dizzy fucked up a couple of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I could imagine Axl at his egotistical best (when GnR was on top of the music world) contemplating releasing a 20 minute song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkarmy Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 not true... November rain was written before appetite... many demos and interviews prove that. Axl talks about writing estranged in the making of estranged video... says he woke up in the middle of the night and went to his piano and wrote the music for del's 'without you story' ... pretty sure axl didn't ever own a piano while in the gutters of LA... plus I remember interviews around the time appetite took off and axl said "I wrote this song called november rain its about 8 minutes long and if I don't get it right.. I'll quit the business"Maybe axl had a vision of combining them ... but definitely written later.And they are not in the same key... november rain is in C then morphs into C#m at the end.... Estranged starts in Gm and then morphs into Cmajor at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosonen Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Matt is a liar, it`s very interesting lie about something this important. he obviously wants a reunion. I would never believe a person who actually was in GNR about whatever he might say. In reality he heard 2 different tapes, NR and Estranged, but because of a liar he is, he came up with them being in one big idea. what an asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBrownstone Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano.You're right, you obviously know much more than someone who was actually in the band. Really though, I respect your opinion, but I'll give mine too. I don't find it too hard to believe, because if memory serves, when Del James first wrote "without you" after Axl called him over one day, pouring out his feelings about Erin Everly, Axl told Del that he'd already written the theme song for the story, so it was definitely before the Illusion era..at least that's how I remember it...but I could be wrong. And just because they had demo's of November Rain, but not Estranged, doesn't mean that the song didn't exist in some form, and since the whole trio of songs is based on the same story, it's not out of the realm of possibility that one, two, or all three of them were at some point one giant song...seems weird to think of them like that, but just saying, can't say it's not possible. Just my 2 cents. Edited November 5, 2011 by DrBrownstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl owns dexter Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You know what, I like Matt Sorum and I think he gets way too much flak. I this it was Axl or Duff who said they really held him back on the Illusions. I think he was great on Contraband.On the other hand, I don't trust a world he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBrownstone Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Was Axl with Erin in 1990? I can't remember the exact timeline with Erin and Stephanie, but I definitely remember Axl saying that he'd written the song (referring to Estranged) after he talked to Del James about his relationship with Erin, which I thought was around 87-89... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelica Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Was Axl with Erin in 1990? I can't remember the exact timeline with Erin and Stephanie, but I definitely remember Axl saying that he'd written the song (referring to Estranged) after he talked to Del James about his relationship with Erin, which I thought was around 87-89...Axl and Erin were together from 86 - 90. NR was written in the early 80s, Estranged was written sometime in 89 - 90. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNRfan2008 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Sorum is lying as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Smooth Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano.You're right, you obviously know much more than someone who was actually in the band. Really though, I respect your opinion, but I'll give mine too. I don't find it too hard to believe, because if memory serves, when Del James first wrote "without you" after Axl called him over one day, pouring out his feelings about Erin Everly, Axl told Del that he'd already written the theme song for the story, so it was definitely before the Illusion era..at least that's how I remember it...but I could be wrong. And just because they had demo's of November Rain, but not Estranged, doesn't mean that the song didn't exist in some form, and since the whole trio of songs is based on the same story, it's not out of the realm of possibility that one, two, or all three of them were at some point one giant song...seems weird to think of them like that, but just saying, can't say it's not possible. Just my 2 cents. Sorry, I blocked out the fact that Sorum was ever in the band. Thanks for the flashback though, now I can't get the image of his retarded drummer faces out of my head. I still think Axl giving a different origin to each song is more credible than what the drummer has to say, but what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 sometimes I wonder if This I Love and Prostitute were one song once. but I always think TIL was Everly related and Prostitute was Seymour related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris 55 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Yea because I completely trust Matt "The Temp Drummer" Sorum.He's more trust worthy than some message board poster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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