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November Rain and Estranged were one...


OptimusPrimeNL

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Matt Sorum posted on his twitter:

Axl first played the finished version of November Rain for me in the parking lot of El Compadre on Sunset Blvd. He had a killer car stereo . Slash n Duff stayed inside drinking

Oh yah It is a November Rain. Piece of trivia November Rain and Estranged were originally one complete song, a very long song

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damn...I find that very hard to believe for some reason...Estranged is so much more complex...even playing wise...I'd expect young Axl to sit behind the piano and come up with november rain...cuz the intro is sort of a very natural progression of notes and fairly simple...but estranged...I dunno...I think that came a lot later...but I mean what do I know...I wasn't in the band :D

that thing about the car stereo is cool though!

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I mean it's believable, they're both in the same key, part of the "trilogy" :shrugs:

the beginning of Estranged is actually in G minor, rest in is C major just like November Rain (except for the coda which is is C minor)...the weird thing about most Guns songs is that they're played down half a step...so November Rain would be in B major..sounds way better in that key imo...I'm pretty sure that Axl's piano is tuned half a step down, since he always plays it in C major, but it sounds like it's in B major...also explains why Ashba had problems with the This I Love solo at first, since the piano has a weird tuning..as well as why Dizzy fucked up a couple of times

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not true... November rain was written before appetite... many demos and interviews prove that. Axl talks about writing estranged in the making of estranged video... says he woke up in the middle of the night and went to his piano and wrote the music for del's 'without you story' ... pretty sure axl didn't ever own a piano while in the gutters of LA... plus I remember interviews around the time appetite took off and axl said "I wrote this song called november rain its about 8 minutes long and if I don't get it right.. I'll quit the business"

Maybe axl had a vision of combining them ... but definitely written later.

And they are not in the same key... november rain is in C then morphs into C#m at the end.... Estranged starts in Gm and then morphs into Cmajor at the end

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Matt is a liar, it`s very interesting lie about something this important. he obviously wants a reunion. I would never believe a person who actually was in GNR about whatever he might say. In reality he heard 2 different tapes, NR and Estranged, but because of a liar he is, he came up with them being in one big idea. what an asshole.

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Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano.

You're right, you obviously know much more than someone who was actually in the band. :rolleyes:

Really though, I respect your opinion, but I'll give mine too. I don't find it too hard to believe, because if memory serves, when Del James first wrote "without you" after Axl called him over one day, pouring out his feelings about Erin Everly, Axl told Del that he'd already written the theme song for the story, so it was definitely before the Illusion era..at least that's how I remember it...but I could be wrong. And just because they had demo's of November Rain, but not Estranged, doesn't mean that the song didn't exist in some form, and since the whole trio of songs is based on the same story, it's not out of the realm of possibility that one, two, or all three of them were at some point one giant song...seems weird to think of them like that, but just saying, can't say it's not possible. Just my 2 cents. rock3

Edited by DrBrownstone
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Was Axl with Erin in 1990? I can't remember the exact timeline with Erin and Stephanie, but I definitely remember Axl saying that he'd written the song (referring to Estranged) after he talked to Del James about his relationship with Erin, which I thought was around 87-89...

Axl and Erin were together from 86 - 90. NR was written in the early 80s, Estranged was written sometime in 89 - 90.

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Not buying it. Axl didn't continue on into Estranged in the November Rain demo with just him and his piano.

You're right, you obviously know much more than someone who was actually in the band. :rolleyes:

Really though, I respect your opinion, but I'll give mine too. I don't find it too hard to believe, because if memory serves, when Del James first wrote "without you" after Axl called him over one day, pouring out his feelings about Erin Everly, Axl told Del that he'd already written the theme song for the story, so it was definitely before the Illusion era..at least that's how I remember it...but I could be wrong. And just because they had demo's of November Rain, but not Estranged, doesn't mean that the song didn't exist in some form, and since the whole trio of songs is based on the same story, it's not out of the realm of possibility that one, two, or all three of them were at some point one giant song...seems weird to think of them like that, but just saying, can't say it's not possible. Just my 2 cents. rock3

Sorry, I blocked out the fact that Sorum was ever in the band. Thanks for the flashback though, now I can't get the image of his retarded drummer faces out of my head. I still think Axl giving a different origin to each song is more credible than what the drummer has to say, but what do I know?

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