Could anybody does explain when began enmity between Axl and Bon Jovi and real reason?

[WhazUp]

Groghan that's the very reason Jovi are so lame , desperate for attention no matter how crap the material. Sounds like you have a real fetish for them dude,.

So being active in your profession is "desperate for attention"? Their material may suck, but come on...let's not get carried away. If GNR (Axl) was as active as Bon Jovi we'd all be loving life. I have to say, I agree with Groghan in this topic...I see it the same way...I don't love bon jovi...I only like a few of their older songs, never cared enough to listen to all their stuff, but I think it's comical how GNR fans (the hardcores here) are so robotized by the way Axl does things, because of our love and obsession with GNR/Axl, that we consider artists who are very active and popular to be sellouts and desperate for attention, whores for the limelight, etc. etc. etc.

+1 agree with this whole post

[axlrod]

Groghan that's the very reason Jovi are so lame , desperate for attention no matter how crap the material. Sounds like you have a real fetish for them dude,.

So being active in your profession is "desperate for attention"? Their material may suck, but come on...let's not get carried away. If GNR (Axl) was as active as Bon Jovi we'd all be loving life. I have to say, I agree with Groghan in this topic...I see it the same way...I don't love bon jovi...I only like a few of their older songs, never cared enough to listen to all their stuff, but I think it's comical how GNR fans (the hardcores here) are so robotized by the way Axl does things, because of our love and obsession with GNR/Axl, that we consider artists who are very active and popular to be sellouts and desperate for attention, whores for the limelight, etc. etc. etc.

+1 agree with this whole post

+2

[rabia]

You are right rabia. This is a forum for people to share THEIR ideas. That's what I am doing. Sharing my opinion, just like you are doing.

We do differ as fans tho. I have no doubt that Axl could put out 15 quality songs every five years. You apparently don't. If john bon jovi can do it, I trust that Axl can as well.

And since its all about opinions, you'll now stop using the personal attacks you've been making on people in various threads for expressing theirs, right?

As long as we're going by opinions and desires, why stop at demanding 60 songs or so? Why not go for 150? Its all just wishful thinking if the artist in question has different goals or different personal and professional challenges. Its like looking at one's sibling who chooses to be a water colour artist and say, I see great things in your future. You've GOT to do oil paintings. Do it now, do it, do it, do it. Its irrelevant if your sibling doesn't want to do it or doesnt have the best support in terms of art dealers or galleries etc.

What Bon Jovi does is no compass by which to measure GN'R. As I said, GN'R has had a very different trajectory and even in the old days, they weren't itching to rush product out in quick succession. The issue is not of what you believe or what I believe. Each artist will determine the course of his own career based on the conditions in his career/life. Bon Jovi didnt go through a prolonged implosion or have the challenge of reconstructing themselves in the face of strong opposition and legal disputes. Axl's personal troubles indeed slow him down but they have also been the ammunition that fuels his creativity. One cant just take the part one wants, those two aspects are inseparable.

[Jordan Rose]

Groghan, yeah you're right I was off the point. And in reply, i'd much rather option 2.

But to be specific, what I meant regarding the rock press is that on some level Axl is still real and relevant (and sells magazines to hardcore rock/music fans): they feel that he has the potential to offer more of what has come before i.e. stuff as good as Illusions etc. Wheras Jovi have gone on a way different course. The song Lost Highway and any performance of it is for housewives who pick up their music at the checkout at the supermarket. It's not going to fit into the Classic Rock or Kerrang Top 100 songs of the year. Even Kerrang magazine did a feature on the Chinese demos. I doubt they'd even be aware if new Jovi demos leaked. Those 8-10 million Jovi fans someone referenced are for the most part very casual music fans, not rock fans. I've been to many recent Guns shows and it's a rock crowd, mostly. Jovi's audience is much more of a cross-section and you can tell by looking at many of them that the new Jovi album was one of the only ones they bought that year along with some X-Factor guy, Robbie Williams and some Greatest Hits to play in the car.

Axl still gets attention from the magazines who represent hardcore rock and music lovers in general because they believe Axl still has the potential to deliver greatness and because, dare I say it, he's still a real, unpredictable rock god. Jon Bon Jovi doesn't get attention from the music press because he doesn't fit that bill anymore. He's content to write and perform for as wide an audience as possible. I'm not saying that's a bad thing for the fans who like the stuff but it doesn't mean the mags are gonna cover it.

There was a really superb interview with Jon in Classic Rock Magazine quite recently where for the first time that i've seen he was asked very bluntly about exactly this stuff and about the repetitive, cliched lyrics etc. He was very candid and said basically 'it's our niche, we do it well, it means something to a lot of people' and 'it would be cliched if I had my fist in the air going come on everyone fuck yeah let's rock! but I don't'.

[GnRDuff1]

My issue with Bon Jovi is that je basically writes country muaic now. I enjoy his 80's stuff which always had a country style of narrative a la Bruce Springsteen, but had the rock music behind it. Now he essentially sounds like a John Mellencamp knock off.

[CheapJon]

Cheapjohn.....all that you say is valid. But at the end of the day, YOU are applying your personal values to somebody else. Maybe JBJ didn't get into the music business to fill his soul with the music he creates. Maybe HE likes pop-rock songs????? Maybe the songs he writes are personal to him?

You call writing music for fans a sell out. Fine, you can label it that. But what is he actually doing?

Their albums sell about 8 million copies each. So BJ is producing albums that 8 million people want to buy. Their tours sell out. They win music awards.

So he is a sell out with no musical integrity......because he gives his fans what they want.

What would you rather have Axl be? A sell out with no integrity (in your opinion) that routinely released music that WE ALL LOVE, each album sold 8-10 million copies, sold out tours (meaning fans love it), release videos, win Grammy awards, release live dvds......or just release one album every 20 years, and that album not be universaly liked be GnR fans.

If it was ONLY about the singer and not about the fans, then musicians wouldn't release albums at all. They would just jam in the garage and play a few local clubs for fun. Or they would release their songs for FREE.

To make it seem like artists that create music for their fans is a bad thing is silly. I hate to tell u this, but Axl and Slash both want to make money with their music. It isn't just about pleasing themselves. They also want to get paid.

.

Nah, I don't know much about Bon Jovi. I judged him based on what you just told me and what I've read in this thread. To me that's what you said, but it could've been a misunderstanding between the 2 of us. Though it seems that other people agree, especially that his latest stuff has sucked ass. Well, people do say that about CD as well, but never about Axl selling out.

Bon Jovi probably do like pop-rock songs. I don't. I don't even like SCOM. He does sell 8 million records. I don't give a fuck about Bon Jovi's record sales. They even got a Compilation album called "100 000 000 Bon Jovi fans Can't be wrong", pompuos fucks huh (even if they did steal that from Elvis). An awesome but rather tiny band called Mindless Self Indulgence has this song called "you'll rebel to anything" where they sing "You're telling me that fifty million screaming fans are never wrong ,I'm telling you that fifty million screaming fans are fucking morons". Can't agree that all of the "50 million screaming fans" are morons, just the ones caring about record sales and thinks that means something.

I don't care about Axl's record sales either.Axl selling 8 million records would be great for him, not me. I wouldn't change my opinion on it as long as I liked the music. I'm a fan of Axl because of his music, not his success. Tours selling out is not one of my concerns. If they play close to me, I'll go to the show, but if they sell out in Chicago, London, Hong Kong or not? Do YOU honestly care about stuff like that? I love Axl anyway.

Same way with music awards. Most of the time, they're jokes. I'm fine with Bon Jovi and Foo Fighters winning them. GNR RnRHoF induction, it's nice for some fans and if it means something to the band, then that's great! I'll check out what happens but I think most fans are just setting themselves up for a big disappointment.

If Axl stopped caring and put out re-hashed shit every 2-3 years. I'd stop listen. There's plenty more fish in the sea. If he started put out the stuff that he apparently has "up his sleeve" and have had for the last 15 years, I'd be first in line to buy it. And I could gladly take it every few years. Though I'd probably download it first or listen to it on spotify to check out if it was worth buying. There's no such thing as music that we all love. I'm glad there isn't. I don't think I'd care if you won't like Guns' next record, just like you shouldn't care if I liked it.

Once again, it's really not about the musician nor the fans. For me it's first and foremost about the music. They're musicians because they make their living on their music. Of course they should make money on it, it's their job. They're not charity cases are they? Why do you feel the need to tell me that?

To me you're supposed to create music for yourself then in whatever way you want to release it to the fans and hopefully get laid and paid along the way.

[CheapJon]

Bon Jovi's a dick...

""The New York Post is reporting that Jon Bon Jovi is disgusted rock rival Axl Rose receives more media attention than he does, because the elusive GUNS N' ROSES frontman "hasn't made a record in 13 years." Jon can't seem to get over the fact that the press will always be more fascinated with the bad-boy legacy of GNR than they are with the comparatively bland BON JOVI, according to the Post. He fumes, "You know what pisses me off? I was reading this British rock magazine this month and there was a story about Axl Rose and the $13 million GUNS N' ROSES record that was never made. That motherfucker hasn't made a record in 13 years and he gets all that attention. You know what I've done in 13 years? A lot. But they have continued to write about the freak show aspect of him. Because he's a recluse. That makes him interesting, right?" ""

Oh and this^ is actually from march 2006. Before the comeback shows at hammerstein and not even a month after the leaks of better, twat, etc.

[Black Horse]

Gah, I could care less whether Axl dislikes Bon Jovi or Bon Jovi dislikes Axl. That´s not going to change that they are both my favourite singers and how much I enjoy their music. And I don´t think BJ is a sell out because he releases music every year, he´s just doing his work and I as a fan decide whether I like it or not,period. And as for Axl, I would like to have more music but if he needs his time so be it, I´m not going to kill myself because he doesn´t release music every year. When the music comes I´ll enjoy the hell out of it and won´t waste my time discussing how long it´s taken him/GNR to release it.

[PirateChick]

I guess that is the difference between me and you guys. I listen to music I enjoy. Might be rock, jazz, blues, POP, classical - whatever.

You guys base what u listen to on how good of an actor the singer is or how much if a prima donna the guy is.

I suppose jbj would have more street credit if he beat up his wife, made her piss in a litter box, got arrested for fighting, came on stage hours late, cancelled shows and started riots......then he would be somebody to look up to.

Jbj writes the types of songs that HIS fans want to hear......they have sold more albums than GnR, their tours have a higher attendance than GnR does, and they win music awards.......don't like his type if music- fine. Don't listen to it. But to say he isn't talented or that they don't deserve success or that Axl has run his career better......absolutely ludicrous.

And again, before the Nutters have a heart attack and threaten to burn me at the stake.....GnR is my favorite band. Since 1987. I like them 100 times better than bj. But only a true Nutter would say that Axl treats his fans better than Jbj does.

I won't bother replying to your stupid arguments, but I strongly recommend you to move here http://www.topix.com/forum/who/bon-jovi

Or maybe you just aren't intelligent enough to show me where I am wrong. So rather than showing how smart you actually are, you just insult. Typical of somebody who calls themselves a pirate.

Cheapjohn.....all that you say is valid. But at the end of the day, YOU are applying your personal values to somebody else. Maybe JBJ didn't get into the music business to fill his soul with the music he creates. Maybe HE likes pop-rock songs????? Maybe the songs he writes are personal to him?

You call writing music for fans a sell out. Fine, you can label it that. But what is he actually doing?

Their albums sell about 8 million copies each. So BJ is producing albums that 8 million people want to buy. Their tours sell out. They win music awards.

So he is a sell out with no musical integrity......because he gives his fans what they want.

What would you rather have Axl be? A sell out with no integrity (in your opinion) that routinely released music that WE ALL LOVE, each album sold 8-10 million copies, sold out tours (meaning fans love it), release videos, win Grammy awards, release live dvds......or just release one album every 20 years, and that album not be universaly liked be GnR fans.

If it was ONLY about the singer and not about the fans, then musicians wouldn't release albums at all. They would just jam in the garage and play a few local clubs for fun. Or they would release their songs for FREE.

To make it seem like artists that create music for their fans is a bad thing is silly. I hate to tell u this, but Axl and Slash both want to make money with their music. It isn't just about pleasing themselves. They also want to get paid.

oh yeah I'm an idiot

I expect a person to be whatever they want to be. This is Axl's reality and you won't change it no matter how much you bitch and complain. If you like someone's reality fine, if you don't like or accept it you are free to stop paying attention to that person.

Expecting someone to change to fulfill your expectation isn't smart at all, it's a waste of time and energy.

Also, I don't think you can measure someone's talent or career by how many records they have released or sold. As an example, Justin Biever has sold more records and concert tickets than AC/DC...

Edit: I forgot to add that maybe Bon Jovi has released more music, he has also performed in some B movies and so. Yet he was complaining because Axl got more attention...

Edited March 4, 2012 by PirateChick

[axlrod]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sings Hallelujah, Axl sings Sympathy for the Devil.

Bjovi is a good boy, Axl's a bad boy (majority said)

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

Bjovi plays concerts on time, Axl plays VERY late.

Bjovi is consistent, Axl is consistent of being inconsistent.

Bjovi Grammy Award Winner, Axl nominated.

Bjovi sold 130M records worldwide, Axl sold 100M records.

BJovi 2011 Concert Grossed $340M – Axl 2011 Grossed $11M

Bjovi may by miles leaps over Axl but I still vote for Axl the reason I'm in this forum.

ChiDem is my top album, These Days next.

[Black Horse]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

[RNRS]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

No they didn't. And even if they did, Bon Jovi attracts about 3 times as many people to a concert than Axl does. Bon Jovi played the O2 Arena 12 times in 2010. Though none of those dates were sold out (unlike they proudly claimed they were), Axl can't get 1 sold out show at the O2 arena and the only time he gets a crowd the size of a Bon Jovi show is when he headlines a festival. It's no dig at Axl, it's just a fact.

[Flayer]

Well it started when I called up Axl and I was like, "Hey, Axl, I need some cheap punch lines to fill out jokes. Go make some enemies please."

[MB.]

I won't bother replying to your stupid arguments, but I strongly recommend you to move here http://www.topix.com/forum/who/bon-jovi

Or maybe you just aren't intelligent enough to show me where I am wrong. So rather than showing how smart you actually are, you just insult. Typical of somebody who calls themselves a pirate.

She didn't make a personal insult imo,  but you really did!

You are right rabia. This is a forum for people to share THEIR ideas. That's what I am doing. Sharing my opinion, just like you are doing.

Funny, I remember certain banned members, saying that to you last year.

But than, they were to negative and should stay at that other board, stop trolling this one etc. etc. Some arguments you are using now, are exactly what they used, only than you attacked them for it. Now you are calling everybody with another opinion 'nutters' and make personal insults. Some members you worked hard on getting banned, didn't make personal insults and definately were not condescending (for instance CC), like you in this thread.

Hypocrite

[dalsh327]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

No they didn't. And even if they did, Bon Jovi attracts about 3 times as many people to a concert than Axl does. Bon Jovi played the O2 Arena 12 times in 2010. Though none of those dates were sold out (unlike they proudly claimed they were), Axl can't get 1 sold out show at the O2 arena and the only time he gets a crowd the size of a Bon Jovi show is when he headlines a festival. It's no dig at Axl, it's just a fact.

If Axl didn't have the history of storming off stage, playing late midweek, putting new music with at least one radio hit, and cancelling shows, he'd be selling out arenas. He didn't hit the road or make the rounds to promote Chinese Democracy. People aren't going to spend their money or take the time out of their lives to have to deal with refunds, but he's tried to work on putting on a great show.

He's a difficult artist, support him or don't.

Bon Jovi managed to stay relevant on radio because they had marketing people tell them that country was a huge market that had some of their old school fans. But to charge your fans 2000 a ticket that you're pocketing? Fine if it's charity, greedy if it's not, esp. if it doesn't lower the tickets in the nosebleeds. I think GNR have gone with a fair price for their tickets. It's not cheap, but it's not ridiculous. A VIP ticket for 300 dollars is fair, because if I went on Stubhub, would be paying more than that for best seats in the house.

I don't like doing that comparing box office receipts as a measurement of someone's talent, but his actions have cost him in the long run. Everyone loses their fanbase over time, and if the music holds up, gain new ones. He has a whole new fanbase over the past decade. They only know the history from Behind the Music and the books.

But people will give benefit of the doubt, and if people go with the expectation of show time being a question mark.. then they're going to be fine and wait.

[sleeper]

Groghan that's the very reason Jovi are so lame , desperate for attention no matter how crap the material. Sounds like you have a real fetish for them dude,.

So being active in your profession is "desperate for attention"? Their material may suck, but come on...let's not get carried away. If GNR (Axl) was as active as Bon Jovi we'd all be loving life. I have to say, I agree with Groghan in this topic...I see it the same way...I don't love bon jovi...I only like a few of their older songs, never cared enough to listen to all their stuff, but I think it's comical how GNR fans (the hardcores here) are so robotized by the way Axl does things, because of our love and obsession with GNR/Axl, that we consider artists who are very active and popular to be sellouts and desperate for attention, whores for the limelight, etc. etc. etc.

+1 agree with this whole post

+2

[Original GNR]

Guns N Roses shits on Bon Jovi.

[Chloe]

Guns N Roses shits on Bon Jovi.

+1

[circusboy666]

its true bon jovi sells bigger shows than guns...i hate bon jovi but they appeal to a larger audience and have fans as old as guns fans. some guns fans who are older will simply not go to a show because they are not going to wait until midnight for a show to start and then watch for 3 hours. i went to van halen at the garden the other night and made me feel real shitty how packed it was and know that guns cant do that. guns put on one of the best shows out there, but for many different reasons they cant sell out large venues...in closing-fuck bon jovi.

[dalsh327]

its true bon jovi sells bigger shows than guns...i hate bon jovi but they appeal to a larger audience and have fans as old as guns fans. some guns fans who are older will simply not go to a show because they are not going to wait until midnight for a show to start and then watch for 3 hours. i went to van halen at the garden the other night and made me feel real shitty how packed it was and know that guns cant do that. guns put on one of the best shows out there, but for many different reasons they cant sell out large venues...in closing-fuck bon jovi.

I just don't like using box office as a barometer of talent. Milli Vanilli sold 5 million records.

[axlrod]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

I'm not a poser but am stating the public's reaction. I know that GNR would have topped U2, AC/DC or Bon Jovi in terms of success, figures and quality should GNR does business like they do, the thing is Axl and Co. don't.

JAPAN 2009 – The band's longest performance ever, but almost half of the crowd left before the encore or in the middle of the timeline.

AUSTRALIA 2010– GNR concert leaves fans fuming (disappointed and angry), you can check online TVNews about this. Some crowd left.

ENGLAND 2010 – Reading and Leads Festival, unplugged audio system, fans and other acts interviewed with disappointments and some crowd left.

DUBLIN 2010- O2 , boos and bottled off stage. Majority of the crowd left.

CANADA 2010- Axl was taking stage at unpredictable times at shows in London, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Quebec City, and Halifax. Some people left.

BRAZIL, ROCK IN RIO 2011 – Sold out because it's a festival. Apparently a nightmare of Axl Rose/GNR. Organizer had stated that the band lacked of "respect for the public". Some crowd left.

Majority of the crowds left due to transportation issue after midnight. I'm also aware that South American tour was very successful except Rio. Any major act sells-out in South America I.e. System of Down, U2, Bjovi, etc.

I don't know but most of the time I like Axl's being bad, sometimes I disappointed but I kept coming here. Negative news are now ordinary for me. He's totally different from others maybe 'One in Million' or just himself alone.

[Nosaj Thing]

The only good thing about Bon Jovi is his lead guitarist.

[MB.]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

Not really. Besides Bjovi can sell out stadiums in Europe, nuGNR can not.

Bjovi's music is appealing to more kinds of people, they have a larger audience. They also stayed in touch with their audience, didn't went silent for years. People know Bjovi is still arround. I know a lot of people, who don't even know Axl Rose is touring or has brought out an album.

I don't like Bjovi's music, maybe 2 or so songs and I will take a nuGNR concert over Bjovi any time, cause of that. But I respect them as a band and the way they stayed in touch with their fans all these years.

[JKKDARK]

its true bon jovi sells bigger shows than guns...i hate bon jovi but they appeal to a larger audience and have fans as old as guns fans. some guns fans who are older will simply not go to a show because they are not going to wait until midnight for a show to start and then watch for 3 hours. i went to van halen at the garden the other night and made me feel real shitty how packed it was and know that guns cant do that. guns put on one of the best shows out there, but for many different reasons they cant sell out large venues...in closing-fuck bon jovi.

I just don't like using box office as a barometer of talent. Milli Vanilli sold 5 million records.

Who are selling out arenas/stadiums 20+ years after their heyday?

U2, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, Stones, Springsteen, Metallica..

Yes, this is not a barometer of talent

[dalsh327]

Bjovi = Jon Bon Jovi orBon Jovi, Axl = Axl Rose or GNR

BJovi sold out arenas, Axl sold half arenas.

I guess you know there are other countries outside the U.S. borders,right?. As far as I know the only "half arenas" happened in USA cuz in Europe they sold out almost all the shows they played last time.

Not really. Besides Bjovi can sell out stadiums in Europe, nuGNR can not.

Bjovi's music is appealing to more kinds of people, they have a larger audience. They also stayed in touch with their audience, didn't went silent for years. People know Bjovi is still arround. I know a lot of people, who don't even know Axl Rose is touring or has brought out an album.

I don't like Bjovi's music, maybe 2 or so songs and I will take a nuGNR concert over Bjovi any time, cause of that. But I respect them as a band and the way they stayed in touch with their fans all these years.

They have a formula that worked for them over the years, and they both worked their way up in the clubs. For a band around 30 years is remarkable in itself, and to continue to have millions of fans is a rare feat. It doesn't matter which one's better, they both have a back catalog that gets played on the radio somewhere in the world right now, but the type of hard rock they did opened doors for other bands. For better...some of their proteges wound up going platinum, and definitely for worse... bands that would try to replicate their songs, but the success KISS had in the 80s, they already had Desmond Child when they were still in makeup, and you can switch the Paul Stanley songs with Bon Jovi's from that period, with some melody changes that make one sound Bon Jovi, and the other one, KISS. I also think Bryan Adams was collaborating with hard rock bands at the time, not that he wasn't already busy.