The James Bond Thread: RIP Robbie Coltrane

[Crazyman]

Miser are you saying you prefer Die Another Day over The World is Not Enough?

[Georgy Zhukov]

Watched all the Brosnan films today. Jesus. Fucking. Christ. Goldeneye is good. But then starting with Tomorrow Never Dies you wonder how things can possibly get shittier...and then you remember that somehow they do. TND could've been decent if it wasn't for Elliot Carver, aka Evil Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs was far more evil than Elliot Carver.

[Vincent Vega]

I think the only reason people like GoldenEye so much was because of the video game. Die Another Day was so bad that even Roger Moore felt they went overboard and he did Moonraker. At least Moonraker was watchable.

I think there's only so much blame can go to the writers. Purvis and Wade also did Casino Royale and Skyfall though they had help with Haggis and Logan the ideas were theirs. But I felt Brosnan was not playing Bond, just an Elvis impersonater Bond. Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton and Craig made it all their own. Brosnan brought in "PAIN FACE" and that's about it. With the exception of Tomorrow Never Dies, he didn't look the part. I was hoping he was going to keep the long hair and beard for Die Another Day.

I agree with Powerage, the underwater fight was boring but back in 1965, that was like watching Avatar. I really enjoyed the film, especially Claudine Auger.

Sean Bean would have been interesting but Sam Neil has always creeped me out.

It revitalized the series though. You've got to remember. Time (and current tastes) have made the Dalton films seem better, but at the time, the franchise was at a bleak point. We'd been through 12 years of Moore--with Moore really showing his age in the last couple--and the Dalton films seemed stripped of everything that made Bond Bond back then. We had Connery, who was a mix of dark and light, Lazenby who was basically forgotten, Moore who was totally camp and light...and suddenly this utterly dark and bleaker character comes out of the woodwork.

And then after License to Kill, the Cold War was over and political correctness became part of the cultural landscape, people figured you could stick a fork in Bond--that was outmoded, outdated, over.How could a sexist, misogynistic, free sex having anti-communist spy exist in an era of AIDs, political correctness and a post USSR world? Goldeneye changed that and brought the series back to life rather successfully.

I'd say part of Brosnan's appeal is that he was the culmination of all the previous actors. He wasn't impersonating, but basically attempting to mix the best parts of the four previous actors. I still prefer that to Craig mixing Bond with Jason Bourne and Nolan's Batman....At least Brosnan was still pure Bond.

And how are Brosnan's looks even a factor when Craig looks more like Red Grant than Bond?!

Miser are you saying you prefer Die Another Day over The World is Not Enough?

The World is Not Enough is boring as fuck and is also somehow really depressing. At least Die Another Day, for all it's insanity, is fun.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[Georgy Zhukov]

All I am saying about Brosnan that he is the only James Bond that does not look threatening. Anyone can kick his ass.

Craig looks better in a tuxedo than Brosnan, therefore he is more James Bond than anyone. Actually Craig can pull off anything as we saw in Casino Royale. Dalton and of course Connery always looked good too. Why wear a tux to a carnival, because he's James Bond.

Craig actually bases himself on the Fleming character. He is certainly no Jason Bourne. GoldenEye ended up becoming that Bond film that proves that Bond can go on but it was a very average film. Casino Royale and Skyfall did better with that.

I still say Brosnan was impersonating. He had no original concept for the character. He played it safe and mediocre. Craig played inexperience Bond learning his lesson, Bond being torn between revenge and his mission a la how You Only Live Twice should have been done if they did it in order and an Bond being pushed to his physical limit. Sure it is like Nolan's Batman but audiences want that. The numbers show that.

[Vincent Vega]

All I am saying about Brosnan that he is the only James Bond that does not look threatening. Anyone can kick his ass.

Craig looks better in a tuxedo than Brosnan, therefore he is more James Bond than anyone. Actually Craig can pull off anything as we saw in Casino Royale. Dalton and of course Connery always looked good too. Why wear a tux to a carnival, because he's James Bond.

Craig actually bases himself on the Fleming character. He is certainly no Jason Bourne. GoldenEye ended up becoming that Bond film that proves that Bond can go on but it was a very average film. Casino Royale and Skyfall did better with that.

I still say Brosnan was impersonating. He had no original concept for the character. He played it safe and mediocre. Craig played inexperience Bond learning his lesson, Bond being torn between revenge and his mission a la how You Only Live Twice should have been done if they did it in order and an Bond being pushed to his physical limit. Sure it is like Nolan's Batman but audiences want that. The numbers show that.

Audiences also want crap like Avatar, Titanic, Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, The Hobbit....The numbers show that. Numbers are BS. Gone with the Wind is the highest grossing film ever when adjusted for inflation and I'm sure some would disagree with it being the greatest film ever.

Craig looks like fucking Vladimir Putin. He comes off like a thug, so sure he can kick ass. He is in terms of looks as far from Fleming's very clear idea of what Bond should look like if we're talking purism. Dalton and Connery are closest appearance wise to what Fleming envisioned Bond looking like.

It isn't "like" Nolan's Batman. It basically is Nolan's Batman with Bond trappings. Fuck that noise.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[Georgy Zhukov]

You ever see a sketch Fleming did of Bond? Kind of looks like Daniel Craig. Connery didn't have blue eyes like the Bond character so what difference does it make if Craig was blond? And he looks nothing like Vladimir Putin.

Of course he isn't Nolan's Batman, he is better. He is Fleming's Bond.

Also he has the charm down.

[Vincent Vega]

You ever see a sketch Fleming did of Bond? Kind of looks like Daniel Craig. Connery didn't have blue eyes like the Bond character so what difference does it make if Craig was blond? And he looks nothing like Vladimir Putin.

Of course he isn't Nolan's Batman, he is better. He is Fleming's Bond.

Also he has the charm down.

He's Jason Bruce Bond. Nothing more. Nothing will touch Connery's Bond.

Ian Fleming's Bond

Edited February 19, 2013 by Vincent Vega

[Georgy Zhukov]

Still don't see the Putin resemblence but I can see it in the Sketch.

[AndreCC]

Thunderball! Best 007 Movie ever! My favorites are Thunderball, Dr. No and From Russia with Love! Sean Connery fan all the way!

I hate this new guy though... Pierce was so much better! The new movies don't have anything to do with Bond... they're just normal action movies, which sucks! The Bond Mystique is gone!

Edited February 19, 2013 by AndreCC

[DieselDaisy]

Too much hatred for Pierce here.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Too much hatred for Pierce here.

Did you see the post above?

[Chris1989]

Ordered in Pizza and watched Skyfall last yesterday. Awesome sums it up.

[James Bond]

It's also worth noting that Fleming dismissed Connery as an "overgrown stuntman" upon first seeing him, so I don't think Connery was what Fleming had in mind for his Bond either. Of course, he was won over by Connery's performance. It was at that moment though that it became clear the film version was going to be a totally different entity from the novel version. Some people like one better than the other. I like a mixture.

I think what really made DAF not the best Connery film was the fact it was located in Las Vegas. I see nothing appealing about Vegas and Bond films are always showing off locations but no matter how they attempt to show the postive side of Vegas it is just unappealing. The Bayou in Live And Let Die was more appealing

I wouldn't say it's that Vegas is unappealing, but more that it just has a "been there, done that" kind of feeling when it comes to film. Granted, that's where the novel took place.

Does anyone else kind of dislike Thunderball? It's a good film but it feels very slow paced.

How do you guys feel Sean Bean and Sam Neil would've done as Bond? Both were under heavy consideration for the role in The Living Daylights.

Thunderball is probably tied with From Russia With Love as my favorite of the Connery films. It was the first Connery film I ever got on VHS and I must have worn out the tape. Its a good example of "spectacle" Bond, if one calls it that, done right. I wouldn't mind if the next Craig film borrowed from the scope of the film. I sometimes feel like people over-exaggerate how long the underwater scenes are.

Not sure about Sam Neil (wasn't impressed with his screen test) but I think Bean could have made a good Bond. Apparently Barbara considered him.

Thunderball! Best 007 Movie ever! My favorites are Thunderball, Dr. No and From Russia with Love! Sean Connery fan all the way!

I hate this new guy though... Pierce was so much better! The new movies don't have anything to do with Bond... they're just normal action movies, which sucks! The Bond Mystique is gone!

Casino Royale doesn't have anything to do with Bond even though it's Fleming's novel on the screen? Big action scenes borrowed from the Brosnan era? The feel of OHMSS' love story? If anything, it's a good "hybrid" Bond film - you've got the big action and great locations and a touch of fantasy mixed with the second closest adaption of a Fleming novel. The same is true for Skyfall - all the Bond elements are there, including more humor than Casino Royale (although Casino Royale had its fair share despite Craig "never smiling" where anybody who says that clearly fell asleep five minutes into the film).

Quantum of Solace? You've got a point. Typical action devoid of most of what makes Bond awesome.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Casino Royale and Skyfall had everything that makes a Bond film great. Casino Royale was more faithful to the Fleming novel which will throw fans off, Bond falling in love, Bond wanting to quit MI6 which will make fans think Connery would never do that, well the thing is, Bond has only ever attempted to do that twice and there's good reason why he never did it again.

Like James Bond, I prefer a mixture myself and come to think of it, so would have Connery. Connery's Bond was Bond at his peak, but he was getting old fast and there was little development. It was more of the same. Lazenby showed Bond falling in love for the first time and wanting to quit MI6. Roger Moore did Bond his own way and actually is a lot more emotional than Connery. He did not like being taunted about Tracy by XXX and he is known to lose it on a couple of ocasions. Dalton was pure Fleming, maybe more brooding, Brosnan just offered nothing new except James Bond's Greatest Hits. His best performance was in his worse film, Die Another Day. Craig just continued what Dalton has started, and now that we live in the information age, it is time we explore Bond's character, something that has only been lightly touched in the last 50 years.

It seems the action has been toned down in Skyfall. The Brosnan films were big on action because they offered nothing else but Skyfall only had two major action scenes. The train chase and the finale.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Georgy Zhukov

[James Bond]

Connery wanted a more character driven film too. He felt that with Thunderball they had taken things as far as they could at the time and he wanted to go back to basics and start really exploring the character. I think that is another part of what really alienated him from You Only Live Twice.

[Georgy Zhukov]

One thing they brought back, is the lines. Craig had some great lines. Especially his first meeting with Vesper or his meeting with Severnine.

[dalsh327]

JB's background was supposed to be from Royal Navy as an intelligence officer, and possibly some Special Ops experience. i don't think someone coming out of the Royal Navy serving 15 years would have come across the way he did in Casino Royale, kind of a little gruff.

Real life spying and intelligence gathering is way more mundane, time consuming, usually no explosions or chases involved.

The big worry is data being compromised and tracked back to its source. All that Wikileaks shit had nothing that got anyone killed, just a lot of embarrassment.

[James Bond]

That's if you really nitpick though. Technically James Bond is the worst secret agent of all time. Everybody knows who he is, what he looks like, what he drinks, what kind of weapon he carries, and every villain is well aware of his reputation.

[Georgy Zhukov]

You are suppose to suspend disbelief.

In the updated biography for Daniel Craig's Bond, he seemed to have had combat service in the Balkans, Iraq and Afghanistan. Probably was used to pull the trigger. It is all make believe.

If you want a realistic spy film watch The Ipcress File.

[dalsh327]

You also don't want action movies to be too cartoonish and campy unless the villain is flamboyant. Which Bond villains tend to be.

So, is 007 bisexual, or just doing his job?

[James Bond]

John Logan admitted he left the line ambiguous because he wanted the audience's reaction to be similar to Silva's, which makes me presume it was just Bond trying to one-up Silva and make him feel just as uncomfortable as he was trying to make Bond feel.

[Georgy Zhukov]

It was explained in an interview that Bond, like James Bond said, is trying to one up Silva. He knows Silva is like him and is trying to stop himself from breaking

[DieselDaisy]

Fleming's idea for Bond was David Niven or James Mason!! I think he found Connery 'too Scottish'' and ''too working class'' but he did warm to him eventually.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Yeah, after the films started making a lot of money.

[James Bond]

Fleming's reaction to Dr. No was that it was a good movie, but he basically said fans of the literary Bond would be disappointed but otherwise he was impressed with Connery. His next book was OHMSS and he introduced a Scottish heritage to the literary Bond and even mentioned Ursula Andress by name.