Does anybody else think the next step should be New GNR doing a package tour with Mötley Crüe and a reunited Skid Row?

[volcano62]

Last year they were way more successful than GnR. They had double the gross as GnR, they finished 30 spots higher on the top grossing list, they sold out every show (GnR didn't) and they averaged 1000 more people per show than GnR did.

I don't know what source you have for these numbers (nor do I understand how 'total gross' in anyway can indicate which band is the biggest since 'total gross' is a function of the no. of concerts and not directly a result of popularity), but if you look at this list of the 50 top tours in the world in 2011, you will find Guns N' Roses at position 39 and Motley Crue at absolutely no place at all: http://www.pollstarp...oncertTours.pdf

But kudos to you for cherry-picking stats from one sub-region where Motley earned more than GN'R and then using these irrelevant data in a discussion about which band is more popular.

Groghanism at it's best

[ironmt]

Last year they were way more successful than GnR. They had double the gross as GnR, they finished 30 spots higher on the top grossing list, they sold out every show (GnR didn't) and they averaged 1000 more people per show than GnR did.

I don't know what source you have for these numbers (nor do I understand how 'total gross' in anyway can indicate which band is the biggest since 'total gross' is a function of the no. of concerts and not directly a result of popularity), but if you look at this list of the 50 top tours in the world in 2011, you will find Guns N' Roses at position 39 and Motley Crue at absolutely no place at all: http://www.pollstarp...oncertTours.pdf

But kudos to you for cherry-picking stats from one sub-region where Motley earned more than GN'R and then using these irrelevant data in a discussion about which band is more popular.

You might want to get your facts straight before you make another failed attempt at sticking up for Axl(we discussed this same subject a few months ago and you yourself said that Motley was bigger In the U.S.) By the way the link you provided says 2010 year end, Up In the left corner, not 2011 as you claimed.

[Apollo]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen here Volcano.....you asked me not to call you Lolcano anymore. And I haven't. But if you aren't going to be respectful to me, then I am going to start treating you the same way you respond to me. I'm presenting FACTS here - you are just insulting. You should be better than that. Apparently in your little cult world, Groghanisms are when I present FACTS that you guys disagree with!!!! Too funny.

Soulmonster......Your boy MLS said that Gross is what the industry uses to rate tours. I think it is silly myself. Attendance and NET would seem to be a better indicator of a tour's success. I originally said that Gross didn't seem like the most accurate measure and was quickly shot down because I don't have a background in touring or in the "industry" to know what I'm talking about. This is apparently true though, as pretty much all internet searchs for top tours brings up "gross" results as the standard.

As for your last ridiculous paragraph. Cherry picking from a sub-region? Really? Sigh.

First off, Motley didn't tour the US in 2010....they co-headlined OzzFest and did a small Canadian tour. So yes, GnR did better than Motley in terms of gross in 2010. Sort of seems like you might be doing what you accused me of doing?

Second...........I said 2011. UNLIKE you, I am assuming you just made an honest mistake on the year and that you aren't trying to cherry pick to make your point appear stronger. I will not accuse you of lying or trying to deceive people. I said 2011. You brought up 2010 stats. (Volcano, so would that be a soulmonsterism?)

I am not cherry picking anything.

I posted the top tours of 2011 - last year. I would have done this year, except the year is not over and Motley is touring with other big name acts, so it's hard to make a fair comparison.

2011 is a good comparison. It's last year. Motley did their Vegas residency. Sold out, by the way. Something GnR didn't do in 2012.

You guys try soooo hard to defend everything Axl does that it seems to cloud your judgement and prevent you from just having a normal GnR conversation. If I won a contest for 30 free concerts over the next year and had to choose between GnR and Motley Crue, I'd go see GnR 29 times and Motley 1 time. Axl is 100 times the better singer than Vince Neil, and 100 times more musically talented. BUT the facts don't lie. Motley is a bigger draw than GnR is now. NOT MY OPINION. Just compared numbers to them playing the same Vegas gig, and compared their touring numbers for 2011. You might not like the facts or the outcome - but it shouldn't make you attack those who accept it. I never would have even dreamed that Motley Crue would be a bigger draw than GnR. But I can't dispute the actual facts.

Here are the 2011 numbers.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=168007

[AxlisOld]

I wish Guns would start playing county fairs. That would fucking rule.

[bacardimayne]

Motley Crue is one of the worst bands ever conceived.

[RussTCB]

Does anybody else think the next step should be New GNR doing a package tour with Mötley Crüe and a reunited Skid Row?

Talk about a pipe dream. I'm not even that big of a Crue fan anymore and I'd still kill to attend that show.

[Apollo]

Motley Crue is one of the worst bands ever conceived.

Yet they have been around for over 30 years and they are currently outdrawing GnR.............weird how that works.

[bacardimayne]

Motley Crue is one of the worst bands ever conceived.

Yet they have been around for over 30 years and they are currently outdrawing GnR.............weird how that works.

Cock rock draws well.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

in all fairness, if vince neil tried to tour as motely crue by himself, his numbers would have dropped even more than the band legally recognized as "guns n' roses."

Edited November 16, 2012 by HisRoyalSweetness

[Randy Lahey]

Does anybody else think the next step should be New GNR doing a package tour with Mötley Crüe and a reunited Skid Row?

Talk about a pipe dream. I'm not even that big of a Crue fan anymore and I'd still kill to attend that show.

I'd go for the audience alone.

[w6a6x6l6]

I can't believe anyone would think this is even possible based on Axl / Vinces history.

gesssh

[Randy Lahey]

I can't believe anyone would think this is even possible based on Axl / Vinces history.

gesssh

Dj Ashba tm could make the peace.

[w6a6x6l6]

I can't believe anyone would think this is even possible based on Axl / Vinces history.

gesssh

Dj Ashba tm could make the peace.

No

he couldn't

[Bansidhe]

It would certainly draw decent money but I wouldn't want to see it happen.

[SoulMonster]

Last year they were way more successful than GnR. They had double the gross as GnR, they finished 30 spots higher on the top grossing list, they sold out every show (GnR didn't) and they averaged 1000 more people per show than GnR did.

I don't know what source you have for these numbers (nor do I understand how 'total gross' in anyway can indicate which band is the biggest since 'total gross' is a function of the no. of concerts and not directly a result of popularity), but if you look at this list of the 50 top tours in the world in 2011, you will find Guns N' Roses at position 39 and Motley Crue at absolutely no place at all: http://www.pollstarp...oncertTours.pdf

But kudos to you for cherry-picking stats from one sub-region where Motley earned more than GN'R and then using these irrelevant data in a discussion about which band is more popular.

You might want to get your facts straight before you make another failed attempt at sticking up for Axl(we discussed this same subject a few months ago and you yourself said that Motley was bigger In the U.S.) By the way the link you provided says 2010 year end, Up In the left corner, not 2011 as you claimed.

Read my post again, I haven't disagreed with the claim that Motley isn't bigger than GN'R in the US, I am disagreeing with Groghan's method of arguing for why that is so (by looking at gross sale of tours) and I am questioning the logic of looking at a smaller sub-market (US) when the discussion is about popularity in general. As you yourself remember, I agree with the idea of Motley being bigger in the US, I just find it irrelevant in this thread.

As for the 2010 vs 2011, ooops, I'll see if I can find the correct link. My bad.

[SoulMonster]

As for the 2010 vs 2011, ooops, I'll see if I can find the correct link. My bad.

Here's the top 25 tours world-wide in 2011: http://www.pollstarpro.com/charts/2011YearEndTop25NorthAmericanTours.pdf No mention of either GN'R or Motley . And here is the 25 top NA list: http://www.pollstarpro.com/charts/2011YearEndTop25NorthAmericanTours.pdf Again, no mention of the two bands. Looking forward to Groghan's source-

[SoulMonster]

Soulmonster......Your boy MLS said that Gross is what the industry uses to rate tours.

Of course, but it isn't a good indication of how popular a band is, because the gross is a function of how many shows are performed and which markets are hit. In theory one would want every band to tour to exhaustion and hit every market, but that just doesn't happen.

I think it is silly myself. Attendance and NET would seem to be a better indicator of a tour's success.

Yeah, I agree. Attendance at least gives some indication of how many people are drawn out to see the show in each market, the problem is of course that sometimes a band would chose smaller arenas which distort these numbers, too (like on the 2012 UCAP tour). A band may also decide to tour in smaller markets which would leas to smaller average audience sizes.

I originally said that Gross didn't seem like the most accurate measure and was quickly shot down because I don't have a background in touring or in the "industry" to know what I'm talking about. This is apparently true though, as pretty much all internet searchs for top tours brings up "gross" results as the standard.

That is because there are written for and by business guys who are interested in the financial aspects of touring, I guess . The only good indicator of a band's popularity is to look at record sales numbers. And just for the record, Chinese Democracy has sold to Platinum (RIAA) in the USA and also sold more than 1 mill in Europe, Saints of Los Angeles (also released in 2008), has neither. But this is also a far from perfect indicator. We could look at accumulated sales of all record, and GN'R would beat Motley again (> 100 mill for GN'R vs > 80 mill for Motley).

As for your last ridiculous paragraph. Cherry picking from a sub-region? Really? Sigh.

First off, Motley didn't tour the US in 2010....they co-headlined OzzFest and did a small Canadian tour. So yes, GnR did better than Motley in terms of gross in 2010. Sort of seems like you might be doing what you accused me of doing?

But it is cherry-picking to focus on one smaller sub-market for getting arguments in a discussion about the general logic of GN'R touring with Motley. Your numbers only give some data on USA. Those numbers might not be relevant at all to Europe or South America. So it is a deflection at best.

Second...........I said 2011. UNLIKE you, I am assuming you just made an honest mistake on the year and that you aren't trying to cherry pick to make your point appear stronger. I will not accuse you of lying or trying to deceive people. I said 2011. You brought up 2010 stats. (Volcano, so would that be a soulmonsterism?)

Yeah, sorry about that and thanks for providing your source later on in your post. But it wouldn't be cherry-picking since I actually gave relevant world-wide numbers although from an earlier year. It would just be slightly more out-dated data compared to yours (which of course also would be out-dated since we can never get current data on these things until the bands actually go out and tour). It would have been cherry-picking, on the other hand, if I had chosen to focus on, let's say, attendance in the smaller sub-market Mexico in 2011, when discussing the viability of a co-tour.

You guys try soooo hard to defend everything Axl does that it seems to cloud your judgement and prevent you from just having a normal GnR conversation.

And here comes the groghanism. Where exactly have I defended Axl in this thread? I haven't. My post was anti-cherry-picking and anti-flawed arguments, not pro anything and certainly not pro-Axl. In fact, I couldn't care less which band is more popular, neither in USA or world-wide. I only care about the music and my enjoyment is not affected at all by what others might think of GN'R. You should have learned this by now, Groghan.

Edited November 16, 2012 by SoulMonster

[Kill Devil Hill]

I originally said that Gross didn't seem like the most accurate measure and was quickly shot down because I don't have a background in touring or in the "industry" to know what I'm talking about. This is apparently true though, as pretty much all internet searchs for top tours brings up "gross" results as the standard.

Don't you ever get sick of being passive-aggressive to the same people all the time?

I told you before I was not discounting the attendance numbers. What I said was MyGNR was the first time I'd ever seen someone place attendance numbers over gross when discussing impact, and I qualified it by saying that I read up on that sort of thing a lot, and that's why it was surprising to see someone put that much weight on attendance.

So for the last time, attendance IS important, but when you discuss the success of the tour, generally speaking, people look at the gross, not the attendance numbers (and people directly affiliated with the band obviously look at net). Stop selectively reading.

As a side note and completely unrelated, why do you always spell MSL wrong? I mean that seriously, though. I thought it was an honest mistake the first few times, but it's only three letters, so I don't get how you keep making it. Or is it just autocorrect changes it that way every time? Sorry it seems petty, and it really is petty, but it's legitimately been bothering me for awhile now. I apologize if this paragraph comes across as rude. It's a genuine question.

[gnrkoncerti]

Would they have to open for the Crue, who seem to do a little better ticket-wise in the US than GnR does?

I'm not sure Axl would be up for that.

better ticket selling (400 tickets more per show) but with kiss and poison...In Europe,South and central America,Asia,Japan,Australia GNR doing 20k+ shows and MC 3k shows Edited November 17, 2012 by gnrkoncerti

[ironmt]

Would they have to open for the Crue, who seem to do a little better ticket-wise in the US than GnR does?

I'm not sure Axl would be up for that.

better ticket selling (400 tickets more per show) but with kiss and poison...Fuck you stupid dick head...In Europe,South and central America,Asia,Japan,Australia GNR doing 20k+ shows and MC 3k shows

Take your meds and calm down young man, no one was discussing any of the Countrys you mentioned, the facts are, that Motley Crue Is a bigger draw In the UNITED STATES(US) as of right now. I'm sure Axl would appreciate the fact that you are calling other members stupid dick heads and are legitimately angry with the situation and In a way you have every right to be angry. You have one of the greatest lead singer/frontmen of all time, that was accustomed to playing to sell out crowds around the world(Including the US), now playing to an average of 2,795 people In a 4,000 seat venue, with one new release(not Including covers) In 21 years. Time and tide wait for no man.

[fabrph5]

Does anybody else think the next step should be New GNR doing a package tour with Mötley Crüe and a reunited Skid Row?

The next "step" should be NEW music. The touring is cool, but its kind of ran its course. Not really sure their would be a point to more. I realize it wont happen though

[Dan H.]

no.....

mötley is one of the worst bands ever.

Why do you think that? I could literally name 100 worse bands than them. How would one of the worst bands ever manage to stick around and be relevant for almost 30 years? Did u mean to actually just say that you don't like them?

What. You think Mötley Crüe is relevant?

This ain't the 80s, bro. Motley Crüe haven't been relevant to mainstream music in 22 years.

Lol.

Edited November 16, 2012 by LiveFromNormal

[DieselDaisy]

Next gnr should play some shows with Pat Boone and the Osmonds.

[username]

Thinking the next step for GnR should be any form of a tour is insane. GnR should be DONE touring this same tour over and over again. The only next step that gives them ANY right to even continue to exist as a band is a new album. It's either that or be a glorified tribute band forever and slowly fade into obscurity. Mind you, half of this band not or barely on CD. And these musicians are just too good for that. They need to do what talented musicians do and create music. Not play other people's music .Except Ashba, he's barely good enough to be in a college cover band.

Edited November 16, 2012 by username

[ironmt]

no.....

mötley is one of the worst bands ever.

Why do you think that? I could literally name 100 worse bands than them. How would one of the worst bands ever manage to stick around and be relevant for almost 30 years? Did u mean to actually just say that you don't like them?

What. You think Mötley Crüe is relevant?

This ain't the 80s, bro. Motley Crüe haven't been relevant to mainstream music in 22 years.

Lol.

Is Guns N Roses relevant?