Exile on Main Street vs. Physical Graffiti

[DieselDaisy]

I disagree.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I gotta agree with DD here, a lot of it has to do with space? It's almost like the art of sloppiness, if that makes sense, it's not even sloppyness so much as you got your rhythm and you don't play over it so much as around it and it has to be solid and metronomic (which Charlie was/is) and it afford your guitarists the space with which to be loose, i totally get what you're saying DD and i agree. The beauty of The Stones (in the songs in which it shines through at any rate) is their understanding of space, a lot of their songs, the playing ain't all packed in like sardines it's loose which a lot of people think is just a kow-towey excuse when whats really being said is that there's some kind of lack of competence there but thats not the case at all. Listen to something like Honky Tonk Women or Tumbling Dice, it's all over it and it's a beautiful thing.

There's something very dense about Led Zeppelin (i don't mean stupid i mean their sound) you can really upset the balance of bluesy stuff like that.

Charlie Watts night be your original boom tat boom tat boom tat drummer (which he isn't unto himself, i mean the way he's utilised in The Stones) but thats the beauty of his playing and thats what makes The Stones so great, the reason the two pronged guitar weaving thing works is because the drumming allows him to do so, if Charlie drummed like Bonzo or Moonie for The Stones he'd ruin their thing, the reason the guitar sounds so cool on Stones records is because of Charlies drumming in part.

All in all though, they got their different things and they're all pretty good at it, although if i was gonna put someone at the bottom it would be Led Zeppelin.

But Charlie Watts a bad drummer? Don't mistake simplicity with ineptitude, Charlie drums like he does because the songs call for it, not because he is lacking in otherwise capability and hey, even if he was, for arguments sake, not capable of a lot more your job is to serve the song and he does that within his role in The Stones absolutely perfectly and no more can be asked of any musician.

[Iron MikeyJ]

No they couldn't. Zeppelin could never do the subtle interlocking weaving thing which happens between Richards and the other guitarist as well as Bill and Charlie (Guns also had this a bit on Appetite). The Stones weave music together. Zep just play loud big riffs and Bonham just bashes away. The Stones are nuanced and soulfull. Zep are obvious and try too hard. The Stones' music flows more naturally than Zep's, ''look at us'', approach. I mean look at Watts. Watts is the greatest drummer ever because he serves the song. For Bonham it was all, ego, all 30 minute drum solos.

I understand where you are coming from but I can say all of that and more about zeppelin. The way page, jones, and bonham know how to play insnych and then stay out of other twos way is a thing of brilliance. At their core zeppelin were a jam band, and being able to feel the music and try to add the right part is a thing of beauty. I can see how some would see at "showing off" but really its flowing with the other musicians. And that my friend is a core part of the blues. Not playing structured songs.

And further more, plant sounds a hell of a lot closer to robert johnson than jagger does. So I would hardly say jagger is more "traditional" than plant. As far as I can tell neither one of them are black, so this is moot.

By you all's logic than aerosmith must be better than van halen, because aerosmith is a hell of a lot "sloppier" than van halen. Is that part of their art also?

Edited May 1, 2013 by Mike420

[moreblack]

I'm sure people felt a similar way when guitar went from Jeff Beck to Eddie Van Halen. There will always be folks saying that less is more. The real challenge is when you can be an advanced player, and still turn all that skill into songs people want to hear, not just wankery. And Zeppelin did that better than pretty much anyone.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I'm sure people felt a similar way when guitar went from Jeff Beck to Eddie Van Halen. There will always be folks saying that less is more. The real challenge is when you can be an advanced player, and still turn all that skill into songs people want to hear, not just wankery. And Zeppelin did that better than pretty much anyone.

I TOTALLY agree with that but at the same time, bands like Zeppelin are among a crop that did perpetuate a fair degree of wankery.

[DieselDaisy]

Plant sounds like he has his balls twisted in a knot.

[moreblack]

Yeah, that's exactly what I picture when I hear 29 Palms, or Going To California. It's not like he sang every song the same way. But you're onto something here, Plant's voice definitely generated from below the belt. He was much more of a screamer than a straight out singer at the start, and it came from a very sex-driven place, but not from pain necessarily, more orgasmic.

And frankly I'd prefer to hear Plant's high voice, than Jagger's attempts on Emotional Rescue and the latter part of Sypathy For The Devil

Edited May 2, 2013 by moreblack

[Iron MikeyJ]

Here's the bottom line, zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (whole lotta love, rock n roll). Slow and slowful, check (stairway, since I've been loving you). Great blues, (nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying). Country/bluegrass ( bron yur ar, hot dog). Reggea (d'yer mak'er). Folk (tangerine, that's the way). And yes even silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

Zeppelin could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

Edited May 2, 2013 by Mike420

[DieselDaisy]

Mike420, on 02 May 2013 - 21:30, said:

Here's the bottom line, The Stones can play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (Respectable, Monkey). Slow and slowful, check (Angie, Coming Down Again). Great blues, (Please Go Home, Doncha Bother Me, Parachute Woman). Country/bluegrass (Sweet Virginia, Dead Flowers). Reggea (You Don't Have To Mean It). Folk (Factory Girl). And NO silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

The Stones could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

Fixed.

Edited May 2, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[moreblack]

Here's the bottom line, zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (whole lotta love, rock n roll). Slow and slowful, check (stairway, since I've been loving you). Great blues, (nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying). Country/bluegrass ( bron yur ar, hot dog). Reggea (d'yer mak'er). Folk (tangerine, that's the way). And yes even silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

Zeppelin could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

says it all, really.

[Midnight Rambler]

Exile - perfect album for me. Anyone hear Don Was talk about it? Had some interesting observations, how the whole record is just about 'being in the moment' and its a 'zen like record'. Completely agree with him.

Exile to me is like stumbling into a bar in the American South and having some band walk on stage after having a couple at the bar and then playing the most perfect set imaginable where their just having a ball.

Zeppelin? i used to be a fan but kind outgrew them, i mean their lyrics at times are fuckin laughable, and it just seems to be showing off, like look how loud we are! And look how fast and hard i can play the drums, look how well i can play the bass and check out this amazng solo plus i can sing really high! Dont get me wrong though i still theyre not a bad band.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Here's the bottom line, zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (whole lotta love, rock n roll). Slow and slowful, check (stairway, since I've been loving you). Great blues, (nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying). Country/bluegrass ( bron yur ar, hot dog). Reggea (d'yer mak'er). Folk (tangerine, that's the way). And yes even silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

Zeppelin could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

Do you realise how insulting it is to suggest that D'yer Maker is them doing reggae 'as good or better than anybody'? Are you REALLY seriously trying to say that Zeppelin done the blues and really nailed it like the big boys of that genre, honestly now, fan-dom aside? For a kick off, they're doing the skank wrong in D'yer Maker, the cut off on it ain't right, it's meant to sound like:

or

Can you hear the difference?

[Iron MikeyJ]

Here's the bottom line, zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (whole lotta love, rock n roll). Slow and slowful, check (stairway, since I've been loving you). Great blues, (nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying). Country/bluegrass ( bron yur ar, hot dog). Reggea (d'yer mak'er). Folk (tangerine, that's the way). And yes even silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

Zeppelin could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

Do you realise how insulting it is to suggest that D'yer Maker is them doing reggae 'as good or better than anybody'? Are you REALLY seriously trying to say that Zeppelin done the blues and really nailed it like the big boys of that genre, honestly now, fan-dom aside? For a kick off, they're doing the skank wrong in D'yer Maker, the cut off on it ain't right, it's meant to sound like:

or

Can you hear the difference?

Let me start by saying, FAIL! I never said that zeppelin can play reggae better than bob marley. I will say that zeppelin are a lot more versatile than the wailers. That's my point. For a rock band, yes, they play reggae better than any other rock band. They were and are the most versitile band of all time.

And yes Iwould put some of zeppelins best blues tunes against anyones.

Way to try and dispute my whole point by focasing on one little thing, fail thanks for playing though.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Mike420

[moreblack]

He does that. This ain't Len's neighbourhood.

Wailers playing Dazed & Confused.... would be "interesting". I'm assuming it would come out something like Dread Zeppelin...

[Guest Len B'stard]

Here's the bottom line, zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone. You want loud, hard, and fast, they got that (whole lotta love, rock n roll). Slow and slowful, check (stairway, since I've been loving you). Great blues, (nobodys fault but mine, in my time of dying). Country/bluegrass ( bron yur ar, hot dog). Reggea (d'yer mak'er). Folk (tangerine, that's the way). And yes even silly little songs about gollum and the lotr (misty mountain hop, ramble on).

Zeppelin could play anything, and play it fucking awesome. That's why they are better than everybody, end of story!

Do you realise how insulting it is to suggest that D'yer Maker is them doing reggae 'as good or better than anybody'? Are you REALLY seriously trying to say that Zeppelin done the blues and really nailed it like the big boys of that genre, honestly now, fan-dom aside? For a kick off, they're doing the skank wrong in D'yer Maker, the cut off on it ain't right, it's meant to sound like:

or

Can you hear the difference?

Let me start by saying, FAIL! I never said that zeppelin can play reggae better than bob marley. I will say that zeppelin are a lot more versatile than the wailers. That's my point. For a rock band, yes, they play reggae better than any other rock band. They were and are the most versitile band of all time.

And yes Iwould put some of zeppelins best blues tunes against anyones.

Way to try and dispute my whole point by focasing on one little thing, fail thanks for playing though.

See, first you were saying something else and now you're saying something else, what i was responding to was your precise statement that "Zeppelin could play any kind of music just as good or better than anyone", which i'm sorry but they can't, especially reggae because as I pointed out, they can't or couldn't nail the skank there, do you understand what i'm saying, they are playing it wrong, the accents are in the wrong place, now you can say thats little if you want but to a style of playing that basically consists of downstrokes the accents are everything, the accents are what the whole thing is otherwise the reggae "riddim" is just slashing downstrokes.

The funniest thing about that is that it's not actually a complicated thing to do, not in the least, in fact it's pretty damn simple and thats perhaps the problem, it's too simple but it is what it is and they ain't hittin' it in D'yer Maker.

[DieselDaisy]

Exile - perfect album for me. Anyone hear Don Was talk about it? Had some interesting observations, how the whole record is just about 'being in the moment' and its a 'zen like record'. Completely agree with him.

Exile to me is like stumbling into a bar in the American South and having some band walk on stage after having a couple at the bar and then playing the most perfect set imaginable where their just having a ball.

Zeppelin? i used to be a fan but kind outgrew them, i mean their lyrics at times are fuckin laughable, and it just seems to be showing off, like look how loud we are! And look how fast and hard i can play the drums, look how well i can play the bass and check out this amazng solo plus i can sing really high! Dont get me wrong though i still theyre not a bad band.

This was exactly what happened to me. I used to like them but just grew out of them. There was however an element of lying to myself as I kept listening to annoying Zep fans (Zep fans are the most annoying in the music industry) saying things like: 'Zep are the greatest band ever ever ever and I am right and you are wrong if you do not agree with me'. I just woke up one day and said to myself, 'I do not agree with that. I do not particularly like this band any more, their lyrics are beyond juvenile, their pomposity knows no bounds, Plant's girly shrieks really grate on the ears, and they possess loads of garbage songs like dyer maker and Tangerine'.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Well obviously we agree to disagree.

Who do you guys think the best band ever was?

[Guest Len B'stard]

The Sex Pistols for this kid although i realise that in the minds of some that particular position invalidates my opinion on music per se

[DieselDaisy]

Chuck Berry, Johnnie Johnson, Willie Dixon.

Edited May 8, 2013 by DieselDaisy

[arnold layne]

I really think Led Zeppelin kind of lead music in a less favorable direction.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I really think Led Zeppelin are a load of fuckin' bollocks!

Just thought i'd help you along there Arnie, hope you don't mind

[arnold layne]

I really think Led Zeppelin are a load of fuckin' bollocks!

Just thought i'd help you along there Arnie, hope you don't mind

I couldn't agree more.

[moreblack]

There will always be a group of people, however small, that hate stuff that people like. I'm sure plenty of people hate the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Queen, and The Stones. They probably hate hugs, chocolate, and bacon too.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Oh please, come on moreblack, i'm sure you can do better than that, so what, everyone that don't like Zeppelin is just on some teenage, kickin' against the popular thing, newsflash man, it's 2013, there are loads, loads and loads and loads and loads for people aged 25 and below that have never even heard of Led Zeppelin, there are entire generations here now that have absolutely no reference point or understanding of who Led Zeppelin are, don't confuse fans of rock n roll as being reflective of THAT wide a cross-section of society, Zeppelin ain't even that fuckin' well known, in fact i bet you any money that if you went through my entire school year back in 1999 and asked every single kid in there if they'd've heard of Led Zeppelin there would be less than 30 out of the whole year that even knew who they were or if they were even a band, much less have an awareness of them as some sort of cultural fuckin' footnote, even thats me being generous, i'd've been very suprised if it even came close to 30, thats absolute rubbish man and you've gotta know it is too.

Y'know one can surround themselves with a certain type of person or people with similar interests and sometimes lose sight of certain pertinent realities in this life.

I dunno if you've noticed or not man but rock n roll ain't the thing anymore, it ain't the standard music, it ain't whats played on the radio, these things that you know and are like, established stalwarts for you, a vast cross-section of people are totally unaware of the existence of, look at your average person on the street these days, it ain't your fuckin' long haired Led Zeppelin fan type or even your rock n roll fan type and it hasn't been for a very very very long time.

Edited May 9, 2013 by sugaraylen

[Iron MikeyJ]

what a load of bs.

I don't know how it is whereever you are from, but here in the us they are still very popular. More popular than the rolling stones and the sex pistols combined. I'm gonna assume you are from the uk by some of the words you used, and if that's the case, hmmm....

Over here in the usa you can turn on a radio flip through the channels and find a zeppelin song pretty easily. Same with the stones to be fair. But here's thbe difference, only old people really like the stones. Those 50 or older crowd. While zeppelin finds younger audiences all the time. I'm no expert on what high school kids are listening to, but id bet money that zeppelin are quite popular amoung 20 somethings, while the stones are not.

I agree with moreblack. Sugar man must be one of those hugs and chocolate hating motherfuckers.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Mike420