Show thread April 23rd, 2014 - Golden Gods - Los Angeles, CA - Axl receives "Ronnie James Dio Lifetime Achievement Award"

[downzy]

Why do some of you come here so much if you don't like Axl anymore? If you think he is washed up, then why do you waste your time coming to a Guns n' Roses forum. Surely there are plenty of other internet forums you could replace this one with. I'm not saying this as some "Axl nut swinger." I'm being serious here. I have been very vocal in my hopes for a reunion, I am a reunionist to my core. While I agree that Axl in 2014 is not the same performer and singer he was in 1988, I also feel he has moments and shows that are just as good now as in 1992. The first time I watched the Tokyo 92' concert I thought "man Axl sounds awful on some of these songs." SCOM being the worst. Axl sounded better the other night on SCOM than he did in 1992. But yet either some of you were not alive yet, or because Slash was there gave him a pass. My point in all of this (as a long time gnr fan) is that yes Axl has good and bad nights, it's something I have come to terms with. Axl was pretty good the other night overall, a solid 7/10 for him in 2014. Axl has not been consistantly "great or legendary" since the 80's. He has had some pretty good shows in 90's yes, Paris 92' being one of the best. But he also had less than stellar shows like Tokyo 92'. Same goes for the NUgnr era, some of you love some of the 2002, 2006, and 2010 shows, but he had bad nights then also. I saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2002 (Axl was kinda bad/bored) I also saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2011, and I thought Axl was amazing that night. It just is what it is. Yet some of you act like he is just awful all the time, well as I said earlier he has had bad concerts since the early 90's, so why are you even watching him anymore than? If he is as bad as you all claim him to be, than WTF are you even doing here? It is your right to feel the way you do, I'm not saying everyone isn't entitled to their opinions, but still why are you here? I fucking hate Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus, yet I don't go to their message boards and talk shit to their fans. I have better things to do with my time. I am being serious here, I'm not trying to be confrontational. Don't say "it's because of the people" or any other BS like that, cause some of you come here everyday just to talk shit about Axl, why? Don't you have better things to do?

Because it's interesting... Believing Axl has seen better days and finding interest in the man and the band are not mutually exclusive ideas...

To give an analogy, I may think that my home sports club is a terrible team, but that doesn't mean I won't still go to games, watch them on television, and generally hope for the best. My interest isn't dependent on how good I think they are at any given minute.

I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult for many to grasp.

I like that analogy, and I can respect that also. Like I said before, I am asking out of curiosity, not out of judgement. I am also a fan of currently awful sports team (the detroit pistons/ detroit lions) so I know what you mean.

Ah, my apologies as I thought your post was coming from the perspective of being critical of others who still frequent the forum but find fault with our musical hero.

I think some of Axl's most legendary defenders (not accusing you of being one) would benefit from looking at the band the same way they look at their local sports team. All fans want is for the thing they admire and support to do well. Some of the biggest sports fans out there are the biggest critics, but you don't see that same dynamic when it comes to entertainers.

Edited April 25, 2014 by downzy

[Sixes]

This is Axl's best scream imho. Funny thing is that it's from 2002

This one was good. Funny thing is, I remember everyone critiquing/nitpicking the hell out of this performance back in the day. Now, i'm sure many of us would take this back in a heartbeat.

Yeah. Everything is relative. It's a great scream, but it was just one brief and momentary instance of Axl's greatness. The rest of the vocal performance, when compared to 2006 and 2010, wasn't anything to write home about.

The other big difference back than was people only had performances back from the classic lineups to compare. We last heard Axl with GNR in 1993 (or 94 at the R&R HOF to be specific). His return in 2001/2002 produced a very different sounding man. So it's within that context that people weren't too enthused with the vocal performances of 2002. Now, looking back on it, and comparing it to what we've heard over the past year or so, it wasn't so bad. Moreover, there were moments of brilliance (like this clip) that seem so elusive nowadays.

Since he came back in 2001, I think 2002 was his most consistent year vocally. 2010 is incredibly, incredibly overrated among many. Sure, the rasp was there, but it sounded horrible for the most part, not always. And he was out of tune so often it was disturbing. And that's when the out of breath thing started as well.

[Forsaken]

This is Axl's best scream imho. Funny thing is that it's from 2002

This one was good. Funny thing is, I remember everyone critiquing/nitpicking the hell out of this performance back in the day. Now, i'm sure many of us would take this back in a heartbeat.

Yeah. Everything is relative. It's a great scream, but it was just one brief and momentary instance of Axl's greatness. The rest of the vocal performance, when compared to 2006 and 2010, wasn't anything to write home about.

The other big difference back than was people only had performances back from the classic lineups to compare. We last heard Axl with GNR in 1993 (or 94 at the R&R HOF to be specific). His return in 2001/2002 produced a very different sounding man. So it's within that context that people weren't too enthused with the vocal performances of 2002. Now, looking back on it, and comparing it to what we've heard over the past year or so, it wasn't so bad. Moreover, there were moments of brilliance (like this clip) that seem so elusive nowadays.

Since he came back in 2001, I think 2002 was his most consistent year vocally. 2010 is incredibly, incredibly overrated among many. Sure, the rasp was there, but it sounded horrible for the most part,

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

[Russel Nash]

Any other pictures of Nicolas Cage (with or without Axl) from the show?

I saw a lot in another forum, not sure if they can be posted here cos they got no watermark.

[downzy]

This is Axl's best scream imho. Funny thing is that it's from 2002

This one was good. Funny thing is, I remember everyone critiquing/nitpicking the hell out of this performance back in the day. Now, i'm sure many of us would take this back in a heartbeat.

Yeah. Everything is relative. It's a great scream, but it was just one brief and momentary instance of Axl's greatness. The rest of the vocal performance, when compared to 2006 and 2010, wasn't anything to write home about.

The other big difference back than was people only had performances back from the classic lineups to compare. We last heard Axl with GNR in 1993 (or 94 at the R&R HOF to be specific). His return in 2001/2002 produced a very different sounding man. So it's within that context that people weren't too enthused with the vocal performances of 2002. Now, looking back on it, and comparing it to what we've heard over the past year or so, it wasn't so bad. Moreover, there were moments of brilliance (like this clip) that seem so elusive nowadays.

Since he came back in 2001, I think 2002 was his most consistent year vocally. 2010 is incredibly, incredibly overrated among many. Sure, the rasp was there, but it sounded horrible for the most part, not always. And he was out of tune so often it was disturbing. And that's when the out of breath thing started as well.

Have to strongly disagree with your assessment. I saw the band five times in 2002 and I was never in awe of Axl's vocals the way I was in 2010 when I saw the band perform three times.

Sure, there were a few things that Axl couldn't do in 2010 that he could do in 2002 (like the scream in LALD), but for the most part, he sounded much better (and by better I mean sounding like his old self from late 80s and early 90s) than 2002. And I wouldn't agree with you on pitch; Axl's always been a pitchy singer. There were several moments in the concerts I attended in 2002 where he was off key.

Edited April 25, 2014 by downzy

[RandallFlagg]

I read on this forum somewhere it described the black/white folks who just viciously and one track minded rag on anything Axl does, how they come to a restaurant (MYGNR) and shit on the floor and ruin it for everyone else who just wants to discuss things, it was one of the funniest things I ever read, they were banging on about how these guys come in every single day and shit on the floor because they can't think of anywhere or anything else to go and talk about and they were really traumatized about the whole concept. It can be taken on the other side with the blind defenders too but I always think of that sentiment when an argument breaks out between the defenders of the faith and the assailants of the crusade.

[gunnari]

This is Axl's best scream imho. Funny thing is that it's from 2002

This one was good. Funny thing is, I remember everyone critiquing/nitpicking the hell out of this performance back in the day. Now, i'm sure many of us would take this back in a heartbeat.

Yeah. Everything is relative. It's a great scream, but it was just one brief and momentary instance of Axl's greatness. The rest of the vocal performance, when compared to 2006 and 2010, wasn't anything to write home about.

The other big difference back than was people only had performances back from the classic lineups to compare. We last heard Axl with GNR in 1993 (or 94 at the R&R HOF to be specific). His return in 2001/2002 produced a very different sounding man. So it's within that context that people weren't too enthused with the vocal performances of 2002. Now, looking back on it, and comparing it to what we've heard over the past year or so, it wasn't so bad. Moreover, there were moments of brilliance (like this clip) that seem so elusive nowadays.

Since he came back in 2001, I think 2002 was his most consistent year vocally. 2010 is incredibly, incredibly overrated among many. Sure, the rasp was there, but it sounded horrible for the most part,

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

I was there Axl's voice was like in the 90's..

[dufforever]

you were?

wow……………….

wish i had seen that.

[highvoltage]

Are you going to post anything, or just quote people over and over again?

You were banned once already stumbleine. You're back posting the same garbage again. What's the deal?

[downzy]

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

Yeah, exactly! You simply couldn't do that in 2002; you were very aware that it was a different sounding guy throughout the concert. In 2010, standing on the floor just 15 to 20 feet away from Axl, you could close your eyes and swear it was the late 80s or early 90s.

[dufforever]

Are you going to post anything, or just quote people over and over again?

You were banned once already stumbleine. You're back posting the same garbage again. What's the deal?

sorry.

I'm trying to makes sense of things.

Edited April 25, 2014 by dufforever

[highvoltage]

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

Yeah, exactly! You simply couldn't do that in 2002; you were very aware that it was a different sounding guy throughout the concert. In 2010, standing on the floor just 15 to 20 feet away from Axl, you could close your eyes and swear it was the late 80s or early 90s.

I agree with the overrated comment, only in the sense that sometimes the rasp went kind of overboard and he did sacrifice being in tune for it from time to time.

Having said that, when it was on... man.

[dufforever]

it was the best.

straight up.

[highvoltage]

Are you going to post anything, or just quote people over and over again?

You were banned once already stumbleine. You're back posting the same garbage again. What's the deal?

sorry.

I'm trying to makes sense of things.

You've been a member here for 2 years with over 1000 posts. You should probably have worked out whatever you need to know by now.

[dufforever]

ok.

i'll leave.

[Forsaken]

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

Yeah, exactly! You simply couldn't do that in 2002; you were very aware that it was a different sounding guy throughout the concert. In 2010, standing on the floor just 15 to 20 feet away from Axl, you could close your eyes and swear it was the late 80s or early 90s.

I agree with the overrated comment, only in the sense that sometimes the rasp went kind of overboard and he did sacrifice being in tune for it from time to time.

Having said that, when it was on... man.

I'll take overboard rasp over weak/mickey vocals any day of the week man. The majority of early 09'/all of 2010 was his best vocal performances since the reincarnation. 2010 was just an all-around great year for him.

[Iron MikeyJ]

Why do some of you come here so much if you don't like Axl anymore? If you think he is washed up, then why do you waste your time coming to a Guns n' Roses forum. Surely there are plenty of other internet forums you could replace this one with. I'm not saying this as some "Axl nut swinger." I'm being serious here. I have been very vocal in my hopes for a reunion, I am a reunionist to my core. While I agree that Axl in 2014 is not the same performer and singer he was in 1988, I also feel he has moments and shows that are just as good now as in 1992. The first time I watched the Tokyo 92' concert I thought "man Axl sounds awful on some of these songs." SCOM being the worst. Axl sounded better the other night on SCOM than he did in 1992. But yet either some of you were not alive yet, or because Slash was there gave him a pass. My point in all of this (as a long time gnr fan) is that yes Axl has good and bad nights, it's something I have come to terms with. Axl was pretty good the other night overall, a solid 7/10 for him in 2014. Axl has not been consistantly "great or legendary" since the 80's. He has had some pretty good shows in 90's yes, Paris 92' being one of the best. But he also had less than stellar shows like Tokyo 92'. Same goes for the NUgnr era, some of you love some of the 2002, 2006, and 2010 shows, but he had bad nights then also. I saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2002 (Axl was kinda bad/bored) I also saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2011, and I thought Axl was amazing that night. It just is what it is. Yet some of you act like he is just awful all the time, well as I said earlier he has had bad concerts since the early 90's, so why are you even watching him anymore than? If he is as bad as you all claim him to be, than WTF are you even doing here? It is your right to feel the way you do, I'm not saying everyone isn't entitled to their opinions, but still why are you here? I fucking hate Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus, yet I don't go to their message boards and talk shit to their fans. I have better things to do with my time. I am being serious here, I'm not trying to be confrontational. Don't say "it's because of the people" or any other BS like that, cause some of you come here everyday just to talk shit about Axl, why? Don't you have better things to do?

Because it's interesting... Believing Axl has seen better days and finding interest in the man and the band are not mutually exclusive ideas...

To give an analogy, I may think that my home sports club is a terrible team, but that doesn't mean I won't still go to games, watch them on television, and generally hope for the best. My interest isn't dependent on how good I think they are at any given minute.

I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult for many to grasp.

I like that analogy, and I can respect that also. Like I said before, I am asking out of curiosity, not out of judgement. I am also a fan of currently awful sports team (the detroit pistons/ detroit lions) so I know what you mean.

Ah, my apologies as I thought your post was coming from the perspective of being critical of others who still frequent the forum but find fault with our musical hero.

I think some of Axl's most legendary defenders (not accusing you of being one) would benefit from looking at the band the same way they look at their local sports team. All fans want is for the thing they admire and support to do well. Some of the biggest sports fans out there are the biggest critics, but you don't see that same dynamic when it comes to entertainers.

Oh I agree looking at this band as if it were a sports team is a very good idea. That is why I don't know why everyone isn't in favor a reunion? Sure even if a reunion did happen, this team isn't going to win the championship, but at least they would be title contenders again (which is exciting in it's self). But those who want a new album over a reunion just boggles my mind. Not that I wouldnnt like new music (because I would) but I have no misconceptions that any new music would be better than CD, because it will not be. It will be more of the same, good yes but not great. So to continue with the sports analogy, a new album would be like making a big trade, with promises of glory, but still falling short. But a reunion (even with Axl as he is) would at least make them title contenders again, now that sounds exciting....

[downzy]

You look away and this sounds like 93' Axl at times.

Yeah, exactly! You simply couldn't do that in 2002; you were very aware that it was a different sounding guy throughout the concert. In 2010, standing on the floor just 15 to 20 feet away from Axl, you could close your eyes and swear it was the late 80s or early 90s.

I agree with the overrated comment, only in the sense that sometimes the rasp went kind of overboard and he did sacrifice being in tune for it from time to time.

Having said that, when it was on... man.

Well, of the three concerts I attended in 2010 I never heard more problems with his pitch than any other year (i.e 2002, 2006, 2011). Anyone have any examples of pitch control issues in 2010 that weren't present in other years? I'm curious where this contention comes from.

[Sixes]

This is Axl's best scream imho. Funny thing is that it's from 2002

This one was good. Funny thing is, I remember everyone critiquing/nitpicking the hell out of this performance back in the day. Now, i'm sure many of us would take this back in a heartbeat.

Yeah. Everything is relative. It's a great scream, but it was just one brief and momentary instance of Axl's greatness. The rest of the vocal performance, when compared to 2006 and 2010, wasn't anything to write home about.

The other big difference back than was people only had performances back from the classic lineups to compare. We last heard Axl with GNR in 1993 (or 94 at the R&R HOF to be specific). His return in 2001/2002 produced a very different sounding man. So it's within that context that people weren't too enthused with the vocal performances of 2002. Now, looking back on it, and comparing it to what we've heard over the past year or so, it wasn't so bad. Moreover, there were moments of brilliance (like this clip) that seem so elusive nowadays.

Since he came back in 2001, I think 2002 was his most consistent year vocally. 2010 is incredibly, incredibly overrated among many. Sure, the rasp was there, but it sounded horrible for the most part, not always. And he was out of tune so often it was disturbing. And that's when the out of breath thing started as well.

Have to strongly disagree with your assessment. I saw the band five times in 2002 and I was never in awe of Axl's vocals the way I was in 2010 when I saw the band perform three times.

Sure, there were a few things that Axl couldn't do in 2010 that he could do in 2002 (like the scream in LALD), but for the most part, he sounded much better (and by better I mean sounding like his old self from late 80s and early 90s) than 2002. And I wouldn't agree with you on pitch; Axl's always been a pitchy singer. There were several moments in the concerts I attended in 2002 where he was off key.

I saw em twice in 2002, 3 times in 2006 and twice in 2010. The show in 2002 in MSG that I saw was, in my opinion, the best live performance I've heard Axl give in person..and I saw them in 1988, 1991 and 1992 as well..and 2012

2006, while his vocals were very good, live, they could barely be heard--at the shows I went to. When I heard the boots later, I could hear how good his voice was...but in person, he was completely drowned out.

The times I saw them in 2010 and from most of the boots I've heard, I found him to be the most pitchy he ever was, and that's saying something. He had brilliant moments in 2010 for sure, but from everything I've heard, I'll take 2002 over 06 and 10. And definitely 06 over 10, by far. In 2002 and 2006, I think he was consistent thru whole shows whereas in 2010 he couldn't sustain he voice thru the whole show and sometimes not thru a song...like WTTJ at the Golden Gods when he was all over the place, I felt he was like that in 2010. But the rasp was there, and people will take that over anything, I guess

Edited April 25, 2014 by Sixes

[Iron MikeyJ]

@ Ucouldbmine,

I can't do it on a mobile device, but the best Axl scream is from the 1988 VMA's where they perform Jungle. Nothing from the NU band even comes close.

[Forsaken]

Which show were you at in 2010, Sixes?

[Chuzeville]

Oh man. How sad is this performance of This I Love. Bumblefoot pointing to the monitor to get Axl to sing? And very poor vocals when he does...

[downzy]

Why do some of you come here so much if you don't like Axl anymore? If you think he is washed up, then why do you waste your time coming to a Guns n' Roses forum. Surely there are plenty of other internet forums you could replace this one with. I'm not saying this as some "Axl nut swinger." I'm being serious here. I have been very vocal in my hopes for a reunion, I am a reunionist to my core. While I agree that Axl in 2014 is not the same performer and singer he was in 1988, I also feel he has moments and shows that are just as good now as in 1992. The first time I watched the Tokyo 92' concert I thought "man Axl sounds awful on some of these songs." SCOM being the worst. Axl sounded better the other night on SCOM than he did in 1992. But yet either some of you were not alive yet, or because Slash was there gave him a pass. My point in all of this (as a long time gnr fan) is that yes Axl has good and bad nights, it's something I have come to terms with. Axl was pretty good the other night overall, a solid 7/10 for him in 2014. Axl has not been consistantly "great or legendary" since the 80's. He has had some pretty good shows in 90's yes, Paris 92' being one of the best. But he also had less than stellar shows like Tokyo 92'. Same goes for the NUgnr era, some of you love some of the 2002, 2006, and 2010 shows, but he had bad nights then also. I saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2002 (Axl was kinda bad/bored) I also saw NUgnr in Detroit in 2011, and I thought Axl was amazing that night. It just is what it is. Yet some of you act like he is just awful all the time, well as I said earlier he has had bad concerts since the early 90's, so why are you even watching him anymore than? If he is as bad as you all claim him to be, than WTF are you even doing here? It is your right to feel the way you do, I'm not saying everyone isn't entitled to their opinions, but still why are you here? I fucking hate Lady Gaga and Miley Cyrus, yet I don't go to their message boards and talk shit to their fans. I have better things to do with my time. I am being serious here, I'm not trying to be confrontational. Don't say "it's because of the people" or any other BS like that, cause some of you come here everyday just to talk shit about Axl, why? Don't you have better things to do?

Because it's interesting... Believing Axl has seen better days and finding interest in the man and the band are not mutually exclusive ideas...

To give an analogy, I may think that my home sports club is a terrible team, but that doesn't mean I won't still go to games, watch them on television, and generally hope for the best. My interest isn't dependent on how good I think they are at any given minute.

I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult for many to grasp.

I like that analogy, and I can respect that also. Like I said before, I am asking out of curiosity, not out of judgement. I am also a fan of currently awful sports team (the detroit pistons/ detroit lions) so I know what you mean.

Ah, my apologies as I thought your post was coming from the perspective of being critical of others who still frequent the forum but find fault with our musical hero.

I think some of Axl's most legendary defenders (not accusing you of being one) would benefit from looking at the band the same way they look at their local sports team. All fans want is for the thing they admire and support to do well. Some of the biggest sports fans out there are the biggest critics, but you don't see that same dynamic when it comes to entertainers.

Oh I agree looking at this band as if it were a sports team is a very good idea. That is why I don't know why everyone isn't in favor a reunion? Sure even if a reunion did happen, this team isn't going to win the championship, but at least they would be title contenders again (which is exciting in it's self). But those who want a new album over a reunion just boggles my mind. Not that I wouldnnt like new music (because I would) but I have no misconceptions that any new music would be better than CD, because it will not be. It will be more of the same, good yes but not great. So to continue with the sports analogy, a new album would be like making a big trade, with promises of glory, but still falling short. But a reunion (even with Axl as he is) would at least make them title contenders again, now that sounds exciting....

I guess some people liked what they heard from Chinese Democracy and want to hear what else Axl and his current bandmates could produce in that direction. The other working assumption I guess would be that if a reunion were to happen there would be little to no chance of another album coming out again. Whether that's true or not, I suppose for some they'd rather have a shot of new music versus a reunion and no new music.

Personally, if Axl's going to keep on with the live acts he's doing, he's better off calling up the old guys and giving the people what they want. If he truly wants to produce new music and establish this version of GNR as relevant, than whatever, let the man be happy and allow him to explore his creative side with those who he wants to work with. A reunion would be great and purposeful if future GNR shows are going to be nothing but greatest-hits performances. But a new album of material with Axl on it would also be appealing to many as well. So I get both perspectives.

[RandallFlagg]

He seemed like he took it off to catch his breath, the order of songs was just

[Chuzeville]

Sorry, boss, I don't feel too good. Can I take the next verse off?