DieselDaisy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 That is not true. Their gens (the Plebeian Sempronia) had acquired nobilitas centuries before the arrival of the Gracchi brothers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Ah, I thought nobilitas wasn't a hereditary rank and that each had to earn it for himself. Sorry about that and thanks for pointing my error out. Still, they were plebians and the fact that they were also nobilis suggests that plebians could rise to become famous people worthy to be included in the history of Rome as written by Livy and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdriftatSea Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 My grandmother used to say, "They say the Lord works in mysterious ways, but I don't think he works the same hours that I do." Quote not a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 The Roman class system was quite complex. I have a diagram which I wrote in one of my text books which guided me through the whole ordeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 A lot of people say Joseph was stupid for staying with Mary after she became pregnant. The Bible says Joseph was going to end their engagement however an Angel of the Lord said that Mary was carrying The Son of God and must be named Jesus.So in all actuality, despite the common misconception, Joseph had his doubts too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 A lot of people say Joseph was stupid for staying with Mary after she became pregnant.The Bible says Joseph was going to end their engagement however an Angel of the Lord said that Mary was carrying The Son of God and must be named Jesus.So in all actuality, despite the common misconception, Joseph had his doubts too.They also say that true knowledge is knowing that you know nothing, but a lot of people claim they know; a lot of people are idiots.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Even if you don't believe in Jesus Christ I think the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John should be read. As far as I can tell Mathew and Mark are pretty much the same stories.The Book of John is great though. Say what you will about Jesus Christ, but I genuinely believe we would live in a better world if people followed his example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake-Pit Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Like, what if we know it, but what we know is wrong? We'd make ourselves look foolish going on and on, blind, going down the wrong path and getting the wrong answer; if we rule out that we don't know.So I guess my reply is.Who knows?and as for any social stigma regarding the Christs and any would be issues there; I wonder if it's even worth wasting energy over.Perhaps it mattered to Joseph? - but he's long dead now, so; who cares? He had a wife, she had a kid, said it was his.The End.Now if it was God's or not..Who knows?Also, if we're all God's children, then aren't we all Jesus? Edited June 30, 2015 by Snake-Pit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Personally, i can't fuckin' stand religion. Literally every experience I've had with any form of it has been an entirely negative one, i feel its fucked with my head, retarded my progress as a human being, wasted my time, wasted my brain cells and made me into a entirely lesser human being. For 32 years of life i have been subjected to tale after tale after tale after tale after tale about Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, for my whole life I've heard 'you can't do this cuz it's against religion!', everything from which hand you eat with to the manner in which you should walk past a person reading 'holy' scripture and my end goal, my target in life is to find myself a corner of this world that is as far removed from any organised religion as possible and stay there for the rest of my life, if i was to get really emotionally honest it is the fucking bane of my existence and i think i am a tenth of the person i could've been had i not been exposed to it whatsoever. It has offered me nothing in the way of morality, nothing in the way of common sense, nothing in the way of cognitive ability, it has shown me how to react on emotion, how to be unreasonable, ignorant, vicious, mean spirited and generally cruel. There is nothing of mercy in scripture to me, nothing. To me, personally, it's all an absolute load of bollocks, it has been an awful thing in my life and i SO wish I'd've been put in a basket and dumped outside Dr Barnardos than raised in a family of religious people. After 32 years it has left me feeling tired and defeated and cynical and totally lacking faith in the human race.I can't speak for the people who do believe in it and what they get out of it but for me, quite frankly, you can have it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 That surprises me a little bit, Len. Understandable with how close to home it is for you, but I see you as a guy who gives almost everything a fair shake, and who tries to see value where many people might see none. I'm no apologist for religion. I wasn't raised religious and I'm not a man of faith, but I appreciate the comfort it brings some in times of need, and I respect the sense of community it wants to create. Religion is out of fashion, if you know what I mean, which makes me less likely than ever to dismiss it out of hand. I'm a bit of a Situationist like that, if you haven't noticed. My feeling is that you are too.I don't know. I just don't like seeing you so entirely negative about something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnold layne Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Jesus loves you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 That surprises me a little bit, Len. Understandable with how close to home it is for you, but I see you as a guy who gives almost everything a fair shake, and who tries to see value where many people might see none. I'm no apologist for religion. I wasn't raised religious and I'm not a man of faith, but I appreciate the comfort it brings some in times of need, and I respect the sense of community it wants to create. Religion is out of fashion, if you know what I mean, which makes me less likely than ever to dismiss it out of hand. I'm a bit of a Situationist like that, if you haven't noticed. My feeling is that you are too.I don't know. I just don't like seeing you so entirely negative about something.Oh i understand that it does that for people, which is why i made a point of illustrating that as an entirely personal thing/response, im not talking about its right to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 aren't your parents religeous, Len? maybe your negative attitude has something to do with the fact that they tried to force it on you when you were a child? and that was the real reason you made that 666 tatto you mentioned yesterday? that's surely what i would do at some point if i was fed up with my parents sermons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magisme Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Len's post about religion was like when netcat talks about Russia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 WFA never existed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) aren't your parents religeous, Len? maybe your negative attitude has something to do with the fact that they tried to force it on you when you were a child? and that was the real reason you made that 666 tatto you mentioned yesterday? that's surely what i would do at some point if i was fed up with my parents sermons No, the 666 tattoo was literally for as stupid a reason as i explained And yeah, i suppose that does inform my opinion of it...but at the same time its a lot broader than that and to do with observations of other faiths and seriously entertaining the notion of how they might or could work for me. For some odd reason i've always found myself in and around people of serious religious convictions and ways of life, muslim, christian, hindu and besides, it just drives me nuts. I could go on about it all day, there's just so much. Nothing in this world feels more real and more free and more true than atheism to me, it is like...the most acute relief i can concieve, being liberated from the stifling of religion, its like suddenly realising you have 5 times the lung capacity that you thought you did, like learning to breathe or something, its a glorious thing.To me the only way religions have been made pallettable to free society is the absolute falsehood that these are like...poems for you to interpret as you wish, thats simply not correct, they are direct and they are literal (speaking of the Judeo-Christian here) and meant to be taken for exactly what they are saying.You'll often find me arguing for a religion on here too, I've done that many times...but thats as much to do with just objectively seeing the holes in an argument and pointing them out as much as anything.And religions have done many many great things and i do think they have had a lot of value and they're been an essential part of the evolution of our species...but for me in my 32 years they have been toil. Edited June 30, 2015 by Len B'stard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netcat Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 they are direct and they are literal (speaking of the Judeo-Christian here) and meant to be taken for exactly what they are saying.that would be a tricky job. some parts of Holy Books are obsolete to the point it's hard to ignore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 they are direct and they are literal (speaking of the Judeo-Christian here) and meant to be taken for exactly what they are saying. that would be a tricky job. some parts of Holy Books are obsolete to the point it's hard to ignore Usually the parts between the front and back cover. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Just reread this topic and my respect for diesel just went through the roof. Anybody who can so deeply destroy Soulmonster in a debate gets an A plus in my book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Anyway you want it that's the way you need it Edited June 30, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfriend Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Even if you don't believe in Jesus Christ I think the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John should be read. As far as I can tell Mathew and Mark are pretty much the same stories.The Book of John is great though. Say what you will about Jesus Christ, but I genuinely believe we would live in a better world if people followed his example.What, going round and demanding our enemies be slain before us? Telling people that they are blessed if they believe things they haven't seen proof of? "The poor will always be among you"? Saying that anyone who doesn't believe I'm their saviour deserves to be and will be tortured in excruciating agony forever? Telling everyone that they are not good because they are not God? Calling Samaritans 'dogs'? Condemning anyone who dares to have come to a different set of values than I think they should have? Think I'll pass. I'm just not that much of an arsehole."So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds." - Jesus "Prince of Peace" Christ Edited June 30, 2015 by tomfriend 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 It is absolutely fantastic that a rather mediocre theologist from the late iron age who did nothing really except form one out of many smaller religious cults and who got himself killed because he threatened the Roman authorities, has ended up being one of the most famous people in history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luciusfunk Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 More than you'll ever do with your life. /shrug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Even if you don't believe in Jesus Christ I think the books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John should be read. As far as I can tell Mathew and Mark are pretty much the same stories.The Book of John is great though. Say what you will about Jesus Christ, but I genuinely believe we would live in a better world if people followed his example.What, going round and demanding our enemies be slain before us? Telling people that they are blessed if they believe things they haven't seen proof of? "The poor will always be among you"? Saying that anyone who doesn't believe I'm their saviour deserves to be and will be tortured in excruciating agony forever? Telling everyone that they are not good because they are not God? Calling Samaritans 'dogs'? Condemning anyone who dares to have come to a different set of values than I think they should have? Think I'll pass. I'm just not that much of an arsehole."So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds." - Jesus "Prince of Peace" ChristThat quote comes from Revelations, not from the four Gospels mate, as do the other things you mentioned. Jesus himself actually spoke highly of the Samaritans, hence the 'Good Samaritan" story..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 More than you'll ever do with your life. /shrugI really hope I never start a religious cult and that I never gets killed because I am considered a threat to society. As for becoming the most ridicuously undeservedly famous person in history, I can live well without that, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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